"indie" tends to be applied to as many games as possible and "AAA" tends to be applied to as few games as possible, which is really unfortunate given the huge spectrum of budgets/team sizes/funding models/etc represented in games today
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People who refuse to play Indie-Games - Why?
- Thread starter Chairmanchuck
- Start date
"indie" tends to be applied to as many games as possible and "AAA" tends to be applied to as few games as possible, which is really unfortunate given the huge spectrum of budgets/team sizes/funding models/etc represented in games today
geordiemp
Member
I am into being immersed in the game, a feeling a get when I play full camera control 3D games either first or 3rd person.
Such higher immersive experience games where I feel I am in the action tend to do it with good graphics and effects.
Many indie games are 2d or plan view or isometric.
Note you never heard of anyone complaining about violence in say space invaders or defender, but google GTA 5 and its a different story, because of the immersive viewpoint.
So I would argue I dont play low immersion (for me) 2D or plan view (looking down) games i general.
Hellblade developer Ninja Theory did a good article on how close the camera was to the character and 'weight of actions'.
Such higher immersive experience games where I feel I am in the action tend to do it with good graphics and effects.
Many indie games are 2d or plan view or isometric.
Note you never heard of anyone complaining about violence in say space invaders or defender, but google GTA 5 and its a different story, because of the immersive viewpoint.
So I would argue I dont play low immersion (for me) 2D or plan view (looking down) games i general.
Hellblade developer Ninja Theory did a good article on how close the camera was to the character and 'weight of actions'.
Flame Lord
Member
Every once awhile some gold rises out of the muck, but most of what I ever see of indie games are rip offs, buggy messes, and cheap cash grabs. Note that I said most, I'm sure that's not true of all of them but that's how I see it.
Gravy Boat
Member
Most AAA games aren't rip offs, buggy or cash grabs?
I like indie games in general. A lot of them I don't consider at all though, due to being stuck digital only. Surprisingly, the situation seems to be getting better, not worse lately though. Limited Run Games does great work, and other publishers and avenues have been stepping up all over the place. (See this beautiful thread: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1293944)
Although, maybe they're not 'indie' at the point where they have a publisher I guess.
Although, maybe they're not 'indie' at the point where they have a publisher I guess.
Flame Lord
Member
Which is why I don't play most of those either.
Mr Fahrenheit
Member
Well sure there's a difference between indie games and indie games. Indie games can be great experiences made by passionate people, indie games are dark souls inspired metroidvanias in the style of Zelda with retro graphics reminiscent of when you accidentally put a gameboy cart through the wash (now on kickstarter!)
Fbh
Member
Yeah saying you dislike all Indies and refusing to play a game just because it's an indie is stupid.
With that said, I do understand people who generally just don't feel atracted to indies.
I'm personally pretty indifferent to most of them . There is awesome stuff out there like Furi, The Swapper or rocket league. But the vast majority of them don't catch my attention.
With that said, I do understand people who generally just don't feel atracted to indies.
I'm personally pretty indifferent to most of them . There is awesome stuff out there like Furi, The Swapper or rocket league. But the vast majority of them don't catch my attention.
Don't think that's an accurate comparison. I wanna watch those sports at the highest level of competition, plus the rules are actually different in college football.
As far as indie games though, yea, a lot of people don't consider them "full" or complete games. I know some people personally that probably have this mentality because of the Xbox Live "Arcade" title. Also the price point automatically makes them think it's less of a game.
zoleristec
Member
Most of them are terrible.
I've mostly found myself playing indies the past couple of years, the last few AAA games I bought at launch where Borderlands 2, Diablo 3, and Overwatch.
What are considered indie games have so many varied play experiences, looking for those novel gameplay loops now. Occasionally I'll play something like the new Doom, but AAA games are now the exceptions.
What are considered indie games have so many varied play experiences, looking for those novel gameplay loops now. Occasionally I'll play something like the new Doom, but AAA games are now the exceptions.
Krusenstern
Banned
They are the majority. Most indie devs make 2D pixel art sidescrollers. Only a handfull of them actually develops 3D games.
To answer op, they're bland, gimmicky, and boring.
Bullshit
Triggerhappytel
Member
So you just generalise independent games under a false assumption and you can't even be bothered to research to see if that's true or not. Good to know.
I mean, if you're making a statement like this then the onus is on you to prove it. How about listing all of the releases on Steam so far this year and marking those which are 2D sidescrollers?
Again, this is a dumb generalisation because you're talking about tens of thousands of games across every genre.
CyanideFuse
Member
Only high mesh 3D games are real games and the gloss, sheen, polished brilliance of perfect 'AAA' cannot be replicated by indie games. All indie games are the same unlike 'AAA' games that bring new and original ideas to the table in each of the years they are released.
We're at a stupid time when games have to be called either AAA or indie, without any nuance in-between.
It's dumb, and the term "indie" doesn't mean anything at all anymore.
In the end it's all just "games", and like all medias, most releases are below average with a few great ones from time to time. It never changed.
It's dumb, and the term "indie" doesn't mean anything at all anymore.
In the end it's all just "games", and like all medias, most releases are below average with a few great ones from time to time. It never changed.
I don't mind indie games, I think we've seen some real gems over the years. As others said though, I'm over the forced retro look. There's no reason for that 8bit look any more and the nostalgia card has been overplayed. Keep your graphics simple if you want but drop the pixel art.
Point taken.
fvng
Member
Mass_Pincup
Banned
People say that because they feel they're derivative. Just look at how thread about indie games are being posted here. The amount of "Souls like" "rogue like" "metroidvania" etc. is insane. Why would I play that when I can play the original? I feel like a game should stand out by itself before getting compared to something else.
It was also published by Bandai Namco and Warner Bros.
It was also published by Bandai Namco and Warner Bros.
GiantBreadbug
Member
There is no reason based in any kind of rational reality. "They're not my thing" is not applicable, unless you dislike literally 51% of all indie games. The only difference is how they're published. End of story.
Zepp Twofist
Member
It's really weird to me, and I wonder if it's more of a console thing. Because as a PC gamer almost every single game I sink time into is developed by self publishing mid sized studios.
Honestly, it really depends on the type of game.
Kojimas new studio can be said to be an indie, but the game quality, appearance of for Deaath stranding, itself is of an AAA level. I do enjoy playing games like that.
Then you've got other titles like Thomas Was Alone, Journey, Limbo, SportsFriends and Fez which I've all played and are great.
So really it depends on the game itself, the story, it's appearance and how it plays. Like I wouldn't personally play Shovel Knight or Hotline Miami. That's because I don't like the style or the story. The gameplay is great.
So honestly, it just depends on what time of game it is and how well it's polished
Kojimas new studio can be said to be an indie, but the game quality, appearance of for Deaath stranding, itself is of an AAA level. I do enjoy playing games like that.
Then you've got other titles like Thomas Was Alone, Journey, Limbo, SportsFriends and Fez which I've all played and are great.
So really it depends on the game itself, the story, it's appearance and how it plays. Like I wouldn't personally play Shovel Knight or Hotline Miami. That's because I don't like the style or the story. The gameplay is great.
So honestly, it just depends on what time of game it is and how well it's polished
Same reason most of people (including here on gaf) only watch Hollywood movies with big budgets and despise anything that is small budget, isn't in a genre, doesn't have known actors, a fast pace or a lot of action. They live in a social bubble when this is the only thing seen as legitimate and haven't been acculturated to other kind of cinematography or game design. "Oh this movie looks boring, only drama" "Oh this retro look is boring, only rogue like". Kind of the same, lots of ignorance
Don't have a gaming PC anymore so I can't play as much indie stuff as I used to and the games on PS4 don't really catch my eye bar Soma, Salt and Sanctuary, and The Witness which I'm waiting to get cheaper because I missed them last sale (and hoping for a bigger discount).
Can I get some recommendations for PS4 indies? What are the must haves?
Can I get some recommendations for PS4 indies? What are the must haves?
Roufianos
Member
I never buy them, or even download the free ones on plus. Mainly because I like story driven linear games whereas from what I've seen, most indie games focus on more retro tight gameplay,
Could somebody recommend me some and I'll check them out? I'm trying to diversify recently after Horizon showed me how sick I am of Western open worlds. I've been playing a lot of Japanese games that I wouldn't usually play such as Nioh, Nier and Yzakuza.
Could somebody recommend me some and I'll check them out? I'm trying to diversify recently after Horizon showed me how sick I am of Western open worlds. I've been playing a lot of Japanese games that I wouldn't usually play such as Nioh, Nier and Yzakuza.
CEJames
Member
I'm not against indie games but I can't play 2d-sidescrollers. I didn't grow up on them so I didn't really develop any nostalgia for them. I've tried a few along with 2D MMOS like Maplestory, La Tale, etc but couldn't stick with them for long. The way you have to approach the gameplay mechanics are just different than full 3D or even 2.5D. Not my cup of tea but I'm not bashing them or anything.
Look for the Cosmic Star Heroine Thread. It's a fantastic indie that came out April 11th. Turned based story driven RPG that has the nostalgic feel of Chrono Trigger (especially how the battles are played out) except with a female protagonist.
Edit: Here's a link http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1359357&highlight=cosmic+star
Look for the Cosmic Star Heroine Thread. It's a fantastic indie that came out April 11th. Turned based story driven RPG that has the nostalgic feel of Chrono Trigger (especially how the battles are played out) except with a female protagonist.
Edit: Here's a link http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1359357&highlight=cosmic+star
Camp Freddie
Member
I think Sturgeon's Law applies.
There's a seething mass of shitty pixelart retro platformers and JRPGs, but there are many brilliant games.
IMO, the best indie games are those that explore a new and/or simple idea that simply doesn't need a $10 million budget. Stuff like Her Story, Contradiction, Transistor or the Banner Saga were fun experiences that wouldn't be made any better by major publisher funding.
There are lots of niches where you can make a good profitable game, but you'll never make multi-million sales. Only indie devs and publishers can meet this demand. I think it's wrong to use Rocket League as an example of what indie games can achieve, since it's really the exception that found a much bigger market than anyone expected. The point of indie games is that they don't need 'mainstream' success, just like indie bands and movies don't need to be #1 in the charts.
There's a seething mass of shitty pixelart retro platformers and JRPGs, but there are many brilliant games.
IMO, the best indie games are those that explore a new and/or simple idea that simply doesn't need a $10 million budget. Stuff like Her Story, Contradiction, Transistor or the Banner Saga were fun experiences that wouldn't be made any better by major publisher funding.
There are lots of niches where you can make a good profitable game, but you'll never make multi-million sales. Only indie devs and publishers can meet this demand. I think it's wrong to use Rocket League as an example of what indie games can achieve, since it's really the exception that found a much bigger market than anyone expected. The point of indie games is that they don't need 'mainstream' success, just like indie bands and movies don't need to be #1 in the charts.
Clarkus Darkus
Member
Haven't came across one that interests me.
Inviusx
Member
That sounds harsh and kinda elitist to be honest. It's like saying that someone's enjoyment of only watching big budget movies is invalid because they dont watch small budget or independent film.
HueyFreeman
Banned
Is this the "long story short" here? I feel like the main message is someone who'd previously written these games off as just nostalgia actually giving them a chance and finding out they're real, full, rewarding experiences, not just that people like what they're familiar with.
In essence that's the whole problem with the "I don't play indie games" approach - the false assumptions about what indie games are, can be or cannot be.
I don't understand why publishing method gets conflated with game content. For me, I play any game if I deem it fun. That's pretty much the only criteria I have.
I mean, sure, indie games aren't going to look like AAA massive budget productions because of the amount of cash involved in making them. But, as game fans, writing them off because of that limitation just seems a bit daft.
I mean, sure, indie games aren't going to look like AAA massive budget productions because of the amount of cash involved in making them. But, as game fans, writing them off because of that limitation just seems a bit daft.
Lookup "what remains of Edith finch".
It's linear, story focused and a masterpiece. If you like it there's a good bunch of similar games out there like the vanishing of Ethan Carter and blackwood crossing, from which you might try jumping into more "adventurous" territory for you
Triggerhappytel
Member
I would recommend a few based on your comments:
The Fall - a game about an AI suit of armour which crash-lands on an unfamiliar planet and has to protect its critically injured pilot from other AI and the hazards it encounters on the planet. It's a really slick cross between 2.5D shooter and 1990s puzzle game like you would have seen from LucasArts, and it has really great presentation and an interesting story about the nature of AI.
Limbo - a 2D puzzle-platfomer about a lost boy looking for his sister in the afterlife. Very dark and bleak with some excellent environmental puzzles, really interesting imagery and it's perfectly paced and never outstays its welcome.
The Wolf Among Us - if you haven't played any Telltale games, they basically make story-driven adventures that don't have a lot of 'gameplay' outside of pushing the story along. Luckily their writing is usually great and TWAU is perhaps their best game. It's basically about all the fairytale characters like the Big Bad Wolf, Snow White, the Huntsman etc having had to integrate with modern society and sort out societal issues within their own enclave. I think they generally give the first episode of their games away for free, and I would really recommend trying one of them. If you can't play this then try The Walking Dead or Tales from the Borderlands.
hemo memo
Gold Member
I believe the indie scene from the usual safe AAA million sellers games. Indie games like Fez, Limbo, Inside, Bation, Undertale, Journey, To the moon and more..
That's why I'm excited playing Nier Automata and the praise for that game that it tries something different and can't wait to see what's coming.
+1
That's why I'm excited playing Nier Automata and the praise for that game that it tries something different and can't wait to see what's coming.
+1
Nowadays, pixel art is just an aesthetic in a developer's toolkit, no different than a dev deciding to do low poly, hand-drawn, cel-shaded, etc. or a director wanting to show their movie in black-and-white (i.e. Logan, Mad Max), and in general doing things that could never be done on actual 8/16bit. To see it a simply a step back is to assume that the devs aren't doing anything new with or advancing the aesthetic
Names! I want names! Those three look beautiful.
Also, I pity people stuck with the mentality that indie games are all "retro looking 2D platformers" or "rough shitty made in a basement by 5 high schoolers game". Games are usually all about experience. While yes, shiny 3D graphics from a game with a $100 mln budget will look better and will be more immersive, it will also be safer. There are topics AAA games won't touch, or their approach - because they have to sell hundreds of thousand, or even millions of copies - won't be satysfying enough or will be forced to mix certain topic with a clashing gameplay (e.g. a multiplayer mode forced in by the publisher in Spec Ops: The Line - a game about the ugliness of war). That's where indie games come, where authors aren't limited by the publisher or, due to much lower budget, can experiment with genres, story, gameplay, experiences; can make a game that makes you feel uncomfortable from start to finish; can make a game where it doesn't tip toe about certain themes (hello there LGBT community); can make a game that's challenging because it doesn't need to target the lowest common denominator.
CyanideFuse
Member
The bottom game is Slain: Back from Hell - http://store.steampowered.com/app/369070/Slain_Back_from_Hell/
whalleywhat
Member
Seems like a solid policy all around.
