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[Ban Puncher]

Well, that was fast...

Well they certainly get their arse in gear fast when it comes to the 'important' things.


Your constant bullshittery has ensured you won't see a single cent from me in future, Atlus.

 

[LiquidSolid]

Well, that was fast...

Wow. Importing P4G... From ebay.

 

[MrBS]

Well if this rumoured new PS3 ever drops I'll be importing a US model and the game. That will send a message to ATLUS!

*sobs in corner*

 

[OneMoreQuestion]

scumbag publisher: oh your country only speaks English? we can't release this game in your region until its translated into a million languages, even tho its already in English.

Well about that... That excuse doesn't even work here because they'll be omitting the extra languages to "speed up release".

 

[LTWheels]

Will buy second hand. Rather give my money to Game store than this publisher.

 

[CPS2]

Well about that... That excuse doesn't even work here because they'll be omitting the extra languages to "speed up release".

Gotta add them extra u's to words like "flavour." That could take months. I'ma be counting them u's atlas.

 

[Ban Puncher]

Hold on a second. If everybody is buying it second hand.....who will buy it new to trade in?

 

[Conan-san]

Hold on a second. If everybody is buying it second hand.....who will buy it new to trade in?

Not as many people who have now just cancelled thier pre-orders for the first week of sales (the only one that tends to matter for some bizzare cuthuluan reason), that's for damn sure.

 

[Herla]

Well, that was fast...

img

I know it's been quoted to death already, but...seriously!?
I'm starting to feel like I don't really need Persona 4 Golden after all.

 

[megalowho]

That letter doesn't say a damn thing. If you beat around the bush about unforseen issues without actually explaining, people will expect the worst. Especially with the whole region lock garbage P4A has going for it. Not great PR and a shitty situation for Europeans overall.

 

[Jawmuncher]

This Sucks for our European Gaffers.
Region Locking the game was just dumb.

Spoiler

Still hoping for a Vita version though

 

[zerokoolpsx]

Sounds like its delayed to next year. Gotta really thank Index for the region lock.

 

[Touch fuzZy. get BizZay]

Still barely containing my rage.

 

[BlackIronCount]

this really suck for european.

 

[toddhunter]

This is how I think it will play out:

* Persona 4 Arena Unlimited is announced with extra characters and balance changes.
* P4AU is not region locked because of the backlash.
* P4A finally releases Feb 2013 in PAL land
* P4AU releases a week later
* Publisher confused about low P4A sales. Blames piracy and importing.

 

[zerokoolpsx]

This is how I think it will play out:

* Persona 4 Arena Unlimited is announced with extra characters and balance changes.
* P4AU is not region locked because of the backlash.
* P4A finally releases Feb 2013 in PAL land
* P4AU releases a week later
* Publisher confused about low P4A sales. Blames piracy and importing.

Not many people would import if its region locked unless they got the console with it. I'm hoping for a super version too. More people would probably buy it used to spite Index than anything.

 

[luca1980]

this really suck for european.

region lock is the problem. As always.

 

[Forever]

Taking down the videos that people were using to console themselves with is almost comically villainous. Like, they need mustaches to twirl.

But people will keep buying their products, no doubt. They will likely make more profit this way.

 

[Recall]

But what on earth could there be an issue with? They gotta censor something?

 

[sephi22]

My rage grows with each passing day.

 

[Canis lupus]

Well they certainly get their arse in gear fast when it comes to the 'important' things.


Your constant bullshittery has ensured you won't see a single cent from me in future, Atlus.

They lost the little credibility they had when they decided to regionlock the game. In 3 weeks I'll be playin TTT2

 

[toddhunter]

Not many people would import if its region locked unless they got the console with it. I'm hoping for a super version too. More people would probably buy it used to spite Index than anything.

thatisthejoke.gif

 

[Twinduct]

So P4G won't be handled by these jokers right?

 

[The Incarnation]

But what on earth could there be an issue with? They gotta censor something?

My guess, Tekken Tag 2 being out soon.

Also isn't that new Guilty Gear out on Xbox Live in October?

 

[Herla]

So P4G won't be handled by these jokers right?

It probably will...

JPGAMES.DE: Could you tell us something about future projects of Zen United?

Geraint Evans: Ähhhhhhhhhm…no.

(laughs)

I can´t really, I can´t. But yes, if you a fan of persona and TV fighting games and RPGs and any type of Japanese products then there will be something over the next six months or so. But I can´t tell more about this, I am really sorry.

 

[Dantis]

Atlus can fuck themselves. Can't believe they took down those videos.

 

[Twinduct]

It probably will...

Oh geez. I would LOVE to see some stats supporting that more people would like to have the product in their native language than say English or Japanese VO with subtitles.

 

[mclem]

If what some Zen people said, according to another poster in this thread, there won't be any localisations done to this game. It's purely English and Japanese, just like the US version, so why do they have to do a new master? Can't they just take the US version that passed cert and submit that to SCEE/Xbox EU? Or is this a case of having to get the DLC cooked for SCEE/Xbox EU (is there even DLC?), and having Zen's logo plopped into the game, or whatever?

From my experience:

For one thing, EU certification is a different department. In my experience they tended to be a little harsher than US cert, although it may have just seemed that way due to them handling all our little localisation bugs. Germany *can* be a whole other kettle of fish given how stringent their censorship can be; from time to time we've had to plan a completely separate German SKU, with all the extra hassle that that involves.

Secondly, if Sony/Microsoft are using the same system as when I was developing, they *may* be applying for a separate product ID and still need that to come through from Sony; a SCEE product ID rather than a SCEU/SCEA one.

Knowing my previous experience with companies who treat EU as an afterthought, it's quite possible they didn't think to apply for such an ID until later on.

Of course, you're quite right about the splash screens, copyright details, updated credits, that sort of thing; all that needs to be inserted, tested.

Finally - and *possibly* most importantly, possibly completely irrelevantly - there's the 50/60Hz issue. I would *assume* that games still have to be coded with refresh rate in mind for people still running the things through crappy hookups, but that might have been phased out as a requirement by now.


It's worth mentioning that *if* the 50/60Hz part is still relevant, then having planned for and that would have potentially taken resources away and slowed development of the Japanese and US version; there were certainly times where we (as a developer in Europe, even!) let some considerations for the European version of games slide a bit while we made sure we got the US version ready to ship; we just couldn't spare the resources.

 

[Perkel]

Its funny how this exposes how self-centered people can be when Zen U is just being a good business and tailoring the product for the market it will sell in the most.

The thing is, Zen U's primary consumer base is straight in central Europe, particularly France and Spain. They were the ones who hung on for the translations of BlazBlue and still made them a commercial success despite a massive delay. So while the English language players throw toys out of the pram and declare doom upon the game because they can't have it right now. Zen U doesn't give a fuck because they already have a willing and waiting audience who can hang on for a decent translation and the game will sell well to those people. It's not like BlazBlue made any dent in the charts in the British Isles or Scandinavia but it sold extremely well in France and Italy. That's the market, and thats their priority.

ZEN member exposed.

Noone from GAF knows where game sold well in Europe. Only ZEN prbably know that and ATLUS.

This is mayor fuck up dude. Shitty business is shitty business. You can't defend that.

 

[KurowaSan]

Secondly, if Sony/Microsoft are using the same system as when I was developing, they *may* be applying for a separate product ID and still need that to come through from Sony; a SCEE product ID rather than a SCEU/SCEA one.

Knowing my previous experience with companies who treat EU as an afterthought, it's quite possible they didn't think to apply for such an ID until later on.

I've always wondered what was the problem with late PSN EU releases, usually having to wait an extra week while Microsoft always manages to do worldwide releases. I guess that may be one of the (many, I suppose) reasons...

 

[AzureSkies]

So P4G won't be handled by these jokers right?

Ugh.

I'm going to pretend that when I lived in the UK, I didn't have to deal with both BlazBlue: Calamity Trigger and Continuum Shift being delayed multiple times. There was a seven month gap between them, Calamity Trigger came out three months before the US release of Continuum Shift.

I honestly preferred how Ghostlight handled the SMT games and Persona 3 Portable. But I guess European Persona fans will constantly have to deal with changing publishers. P3 & FES was Koei, P4 was Square Enix and P3P was Ghostlight.

 

[mclem]

I've always wondered what was the problem with late PSN EU releases, usually having to wait an extra week while Microsoft always manages to do worldwide releases. I guess that may be one of the (many, I suppose) reasons...

To be fair, the fault isn't really with the system of allocating product IDs; if you plan well enough you can have them well in advance. And, as I implied, it's possible that it's something that's been more streamlined in recent years, since I've been out of the loop on games development for several years now.

I think, ultimately, what this probably simply comes down to is that all Atlus's resources went into making sure the JP and US versions were complete, and now those are done and dusted they're scrambling to fix up all the little bits required for the EU release.

 

[McBradders]

ZEN member exposed.

Noone from GAF knows where game sold well in Europe. Only ZEN prbably know that and ATLUS.

This is mayor fuck up dude. Shitty business is shitty business. You can't defend that.

Also; pretty much telling the rest of Europe to go suck a dick because we aren't their priority is beyond fucking shitty.

Current Zen United games owned: zero.

This makes me happy.

 

[Joni]

I've always wondered what was the problem with late PSN EU releases, usually having to wait an extra week while Microsoft always manages to do worldwide releases. I guess that may be one of the (many, I suppose) reasons...

SCEE certification takes two weeks; SCEA/MS certification takes one. Simple as that. SCEE checks for actuals game-breaking bugs too.

 

[7threst]

Also; pretty much telling the rest of Europe to go suck a dick because we aren't their priority is beyond fucking shitty.

Current Zen United games owned: zero.

This makes me happy.

Yeah exactly this. I said it earlier in this thread, how about Zen cater to the whole of Europe instead of the parts where they get the sales they need to survive. Shitty business confirmed when it comes to Zen United.

 

[Shito]

To be fair, the fault isn't really with the system of allocating product IDs; if you plan well enough you can have them well in advance. And, as I implied, it's possible that it's something that's been more streamlined in recent years, since I've been out of the loop on games development for several years now.

I think, ultimately, what this probably simply comes down to is that all Atlus's resources went into making sure the JP and US versions were complete, and now those are done and dusted they're scrambling to fix up all the little bits required for the EU release.

Working in the industry for something like 10 years now, I think this is just what is happening, yeah. Zen United probably has its faire share of faults to account for, but I can very well see Atlus Japan only thinking about Japan and NA when developping the game and now only allocating ressources and time to produce the EU version.
Why a lot of companies managed to handle "worldwide release" this gen has a lot to do with developers thinking every version of the game from start, instead of doing them one after the other -- this speeds up the process because it avoids all those cases of "shit, we didn't think about localization when building up this feature, how the heck are we gonna do this now?".

In short: I'd blame Atlus probably just as much, if not more, than Zen United on this matter.

 

[Joni]

Yeah exactly this. I said it earlier in this thread, how about Zen cater to the whole of Europe instead of the parts where they get the sales they need to survive. Shitty business confirmed when it comes to Zen United.

You need to grow up and realise Sony and Microsoft require a minimum amount of copies to be printed when they receive a game from a publisher. In the case of a game like BlazBlue the sales in the UK alone are lower than the minimum amount; so it would be suicide for Zen/PQube.

 

[Conan-san]

You need to grow up and realise Sony and Microsoft require a minimum amount of copies to be printed when they receive a game from a publisher. In the case of a game like BlazBlue the sales in the UK alone are lower than the minimum amount; so it would be suicide for Zen/PQube.

So's stringing people along on a release date, didn't stop them.

You'll notice that we're not bitching that much (if at all) at Namco Bandai for releaseing Tales of Graces F six months later. That's a thoguht, why is that? And it's not just Region Freedom.

 

[McBradders]

You need to grow up and realise Sony and Microsoft require a minimum amount of copies to be printed when they receive a game from a publisher. In the case of a game like BlazBlue the sales in the UK alone are lower than the minimum amount; so it would be suicide for Zen/PQube.

What's growing up got to do with knowing about minimum print numbers for a disc?

Apologists reaching new lows in this thread. Goddamn.

Reactions to terribly handled PR on yet another delay for a game where a timely release actually fucking matters to the long term viability of its community are pretty much justified. It's not just about getting the next piece of the Persona 4 story, but about the health of the game in its long term in Europe. Try and understand that when telling people to "grow up".

 

[Jawmuncher]

I indeed blame the region locking more than anything.

 

[Joni]

What's growing up got to do with knowing about minimum print numbers for a disc?

Apologists reaching new lows in this thread. Goddamn.

Reactions to terribly handled PR on yet another delay for a game where a timely release actually fucking matters to the long term viability of its community are pretty much justified. It's not just about getting the next piece of the Persona 4 story, but about the health of the game in its long term in Europe. Try and understand that when telling people to "grow up".

Blaming someone for shitty business moves when you don't know the process is not the correct way.

And I understand quite well what the problem is with Persona 4 Arena; I also understand the culprit is called Atlus. Zen United/PQube are the ones making sure that you can actually get the game someday, even if it is a year late. Without them, you couldn't play it all.

 

[hamchan]

This whole situation is fucking shameful Atlus.

 

[7threst]

You need to grow up and realise Sony and Microsoft require a minimum amount of copies to be printed when they receive a game from a publisher. In the case of a game like BlazBlue the sales in the UK alone are lower than the minimum amount; so it would be suicide for Zen/PQube.

I've already grown up, but thanks...

And what you are saying is not what I was refering to, If Zen United claim they publish the game in Europe (and even go the the Astral Event in Lodon to promote Persona), but at the same time you have posts like this:

Its funny how this exposes how self-centered people can be when Zen U is just being a good business and tailoring the product for the market it will sell in the most.

The thing is, Zen U's primary consumer base is straight in central Europe, particularly France and Spain. They were the ones who hung on for the translations of BlazBlue and still made them a commercial success despite a massive delay. So while the English language players throw toys out of the pram and declare doom upon the game because they can't have it right now. Zen U doesn't give a fuck because they already have a willing and waiting audience who can hang on for a decent translation and the game will sell well to those people. It's not like BlazBlue made any dent in the charts in the British Isles or Scandinavia but it sold extremely well in France and Italy. That's the market, and thats their priority.

essentially saying that the rest of Europe don't really matter, then yeah, I kinda take offence to that. Be straight with your audience as a publisher and don't get into something if you know slaes aren't gonna make up for your investments.

But Atlus is also to blame. Shitty region locking in 2012, my god...

 

[remz]

I indeed blame the region locking more than anything.

pretty much. I was planning to import the PS3 version and buy 360 locally I was that keen. Now IDK if i'll get either.


I'm in fucking Australia too. to make things more ridiculous :X

 

[-PXG-]

The point of the region locking was to protect local sales from importing. Well that's kind of moot now, isn't it. No reasonable person is going to wait months for this game.

Publishers need to understand that this is the . reason why people import and/ or pirate games. As Gabe said, is not a matter of pricing, it's service. If people get crappy service, they'll find alternative, more convenient ways to get what they want. Or, they'll just say fuck it altogether.

Region locking, DRM and incomplete games hurt sales. Pricing is rarely the issue.

 

[Acosta]

Expected but I put the blame on Atlus.

We had a good thing, we could import if we wanted to play at the same time than everyone else, or we could wait (for example, if you wanted a translated version like with Blaz Blue). The choice was ours and we happily paid with our money for it. Now we can't.

I won't buy this no matter what, not second hand, not 5$, nothing. And the funny thing is that I have an american PS3, I could have imported it without problem but I won't.

I'm perfectly aware that I'm not going to achieve anything, but I do it for me. I have bought tons of Atlus game in my life, from Japan, from USA and from Europe, I have double and triple dipped on their games (funny that I'm playing Persona 3 Portable at this right moment) and it deeply saddens me not being to buy a game from one one of my favourite franchises from one of my favourite studios like Arc, but such is life.

NichM, I hope you are reading this because I know you care. I understand that European Atlus fans is not your business, but I'm not talking about business, I'm talking about feelings, and loyalty, please, try to make understand Atlus directives that Europeans fans of your company don't need more roadblocks. We just want to buy your games and be able to share the experience with everyone else, is that asking too much?

 

[Dantis]

Expected but I put the blame on Atlus.

We had a good thing, we could import if we wanted to play at the same time than everyone else, or we could wait (for example, if you wanted a translated version like with Blaz Blue). The choice was ours and we happily paid with our money for it. Now we can't.

I won't buy this no matter what, not second hand, not 5$, nothing. And the funny thing is that I have an american PS3, I could have imported it without problem but I won't.

I'm perfectly aware that I'm not going to achieve anything, but I do it for me. I have bought tons of Atlus game in my life, from Japan, from USA and from Europe, I have double and triple dipped on their games (funny that I'm playing Persona 3 Portable at this right moment) and it deeply saddens me not being to buy a game from one one of my favourite franchises from one of my favourite studios like Arc, but such is life.

NichM, I hope you are reading this because I know you care. I understand that European Atlus fans is not your business, but I'm not talking about business, I'm talking about feelings, and loyalty, please, try to make understand Atlus directives that Europeans fans of your company don't need more roadblocks. We just want to buy your games and be able to share the experience with everyone else, is that asking too much?

Atlus JP are the developers, not US. Nich is a good guy, but there wouldn't be anything he could do.

He could tell whoever took down those videos that they're rotten, though. >_>

 

[Joni]

And what you are saying is not what I was refering to, If Zen United claim they publish the game in Europe (and even go the the Astral Event in Lodon to promote Persona), but at the same time you have posts like this:

essentially saying that the rest of Europe don't really matter, then yeah, I kinda take offence to that. Be straight with your audience as a publisher and don't get into something if you know slaes aren't gonna make up for your investments.

Does he work for Zen? A random forum poster doesn't say anything about Zen.

 

[mclem]

NichM, I hope you are reading this because I know you care. I understand that European Atlus fans is not your business, but I'm not talking about business, I'm talking about feelings, and loyalty, please, try to make understand Atlus directives that Europeans fans of your company don't need more roadblocks. We just want to buy your games and be able to share the experience with everyone else, is that asking too much?

Isn't he on the translation side? Not sure that'd be much help, because the problem - if I'm reading the situation right - lies at a programming level. Or, in more abstract terms, at a resource allocation level.

When developing games in the EU, we *always* developed with the US in mind. We built an engine that worked equally well at 60Hz or 50Hz, we took into account differences between the various regions' requirements and built to a unified spec that covered all (and all platforms), and we built localisation hooks in at the outset. Had we aimed for a simultaneous release, we could reasonably have done so - but at a cost.

A similar company in Japan or the US would often build with 60Hz in mind at first, with the US or Japanese market in mind; they could afford to make some rash design decisions in the interest of getting a releasable product more rapidly.

The resource allocation question underneath all this, though, which is significant, is the fact that the latter company would have a product that could be released in one region *much* quicker than us. All the time we'd be spending on the international framework, they'd be able to focus on the actual game. That'd have a knock-on effect:

The first company might be able to release worldwide in October.
The second company might be able to release in the US in September and in EU in November.

Which is preferable? Certainly as an EU purchaser, I'd want the game sooner, but that's a longer gap before the game earns revenue, which makes it a trickier choice for the publisher.

 

[Omikaru]

I was thinking of giving Atlus the benefit of the doubt that they wouldn't region lock again, and buy this when it released in Europe. I had my pre-order all paid for, but since the delay has been ridiculously long, I'm out.

I've read about a few of the problems relating to releasing in different regions here, and whilst I don't think Zen, Atlus or ASW are all entirely to blame (that blame should be shared amongst all of them) I don't think I can support such collective incompetence in 2012.

I might funnel that money into buying Sleeping Dogs on PC instead, since Square Enix knows how to treat their customers well.