Palculator
Unconfirmed Member
I stand corrected and apologize.
's cool. It's a fast-moving topic so it's easy to miss things.
I stand corrected and apologize.
I think poorly designed games like Dragon's Crown and Hatred don't deserve to sell well really.
There's nothing that's terribly problematic. There hasn't been any noteworthy derision or planned protests of a localization of the game. Assuming Tecmo does indeed proceed to not bring the game over (which I hardly feel is set in stone), there are basically three possibilities at play here.
1.) And I'll note here that this is the most generous one to attempt to give them some credit: the sales projections don't look all that great. While they might have still taken a swing at it and brought it over anyway hoping that it would at least break even, the current social climate that sometimes spotlights issues some have with the objectification of women in games has given them pause as to whether or not bring the game over is even worth it. It's not going to make a lot of money anyway and might lead to some dialogue they don't have the energy to deal with, so the ultimate decision is just to say "forget it" and not localize it. After all, the audience who really wants it should know that importing is an option anyway.
2.) This is a neutral one: they haven't really made any definitive decision and people that aren't in decision-making positions are simply speaking out of turn.
3.) The cynical option: this is all just a marketing stunt. I'm not saying that this is exactly what's happening on Tecmo's side, but it seems clear that Play-Asia has taken that ball and run with it at least. The reaction starting with just the Niche Gamer article yesterday demonstrates that plenty of people were eager for this moment. You can sense it on the Twitter and other places concerned with social justice concerns. Even the Niche Gamer article itself played up that this was exactly the kind of thing people feared would happen.
You can see the mobilization of that effort. "This is it people! This is not a drill! We knew this day would come! They kept trying to tell us that they weren't trying to take our games away from us but look! It happened! Everyone to your battle stations! Social Justice Warriors have just blocked Dead or Alive Xtreme Beach Volleyball from releasing in the West!"
No, but who exactly is being a sex negative feminist? Not sure you even know what that means.
Capcom changed R. Mika's taunt and Cammy's camera angle for her introduction for a reason in SF5. I don't particularly mind the camera angle even if it does;t look as epic, but changing a butt slap seemed quite preposterous to me. Wasn't one of the Fatal Frame outfits on the Wii U modified or censored? How about Xenoblade Chronicles changing the female outfits? No more breast size slider/modifier also? Why? Wasn't Smash Bros also censored or changed as well? Something is going on. Are they afraid to potentially offend Westerners or something? Why would DOAX3 be any different, especially considering DOA5 was/is always criticized for it's sexual content despite being am excellent fighter imho? Scantily clad females combined with quirky, niche volley ball game? I still think it could be tough sell in the West, but you never know.
This is precisely my feelings on play-asia about this. As someone who is interested in the game, is ordering it (not from play-asia), and doesn't want to be associated with those people.
I don't think much of the fuss here has anything to do with DoAX3 or the content of the game, really, it's that play-asia has aligned themselves with these clowns.
You can see the mobilization of that effort. "This is it people! This is not a drill! We knew this day would come! They kept trying to tell us that they weren't trying to take our games away from us but look! It happened! Everyone to your battle stations! Social Justice Warriors have just blocked Dead or Alive Xtreme Beach Volleyball from releasing in the West!"
There's no chance of that, no chance in hell - beat-off sims have been less useful since the internet came into our phones
Complete DOA5 Costumes $39.99
Ultimate Sexy Costumes $14.99
School Uniform Costumes $12.99
Pop Idol Team D $2.99
Pop Idol Team O $4.99
Pop Idol team A $6.99
Intimate Costumes $3.98
Trick-or-Treat Costumes $25.99
Ragnarok ACE Costume $0.00
Sports Gear $16.99
Casual Volume 1 $10.99
Casual Volume 2 $10.99
Warriors Orochi 3 $3.99
Santa's Helper $4.99
Legacy $9.99
Tropical Sexy $14.99
Nurse Costumes $14.99
Ultimate New Blood 28.99
Ultimate Maid Costume Set 15.99
Ultimate Bath and Bedtime set 14.99
Ultimate Overalls Set 14.99
Ultimate Training Gear Set 17.99
Total: $293.78
Vorsic 2 points 1 year ago
I own all of them, and I bought them as they came out so I didn't get any discounts. At this point it's partly because I've come this far and might as well keep going.
I like the talk of how shitty the sales were so it was never coming. It sold enough to develop a third game and translate it to English (you would think this would be one of the biggest hurdles) but not enough to release in the largest market. Got it.
People who shame others for playing a game with sexualized females like DOAX3 or Dragon's Crown. I believe that to be sex negative.
Like how do you expect people to react when you call them neckbearded virgins?
Why do you expect them to have a measured response to that type of criticism?
Is there a way to speak out against sex negative feminism without being a Gamergater ally?
Seems unfair and presumptuous to lump P-A in with GG when they haven't voiced support. Sad how entrenched everyone is in this.
Or am I missing something they've said besides those flippant tweets?
Dragon's Crown is poorly designed? What in the....
I don't see too much judgement of people enjoy games like DoA or Dragon's Crown. They're pinup games -- their existence is perfectly fine. What's not OK is using dogwhistle language ("SJW") used by racists/sexists to pander to a frothing horde of assholes, thereby legitimizing them.
I stand corrected and apologize.
Who is shaming people for playing a DOAX3 or Dragon's Crown?
This is why I lump 'SJW' at this point with those sort of terms. It becomes increasingly meaningless to the point where it may as well just mean 'person I don't like who's left leaning to a certain extent', much like neckbeard means 'person I don't like who's geeky to a certain extent'.People who shame others for playing a game with sexualized females like DOAX3 or Dragon's Crown. I believe that to be sex negative.
Like how do you expect people to react when you call them neckbearded virgins?
Why do you expect them to have a measured response to that type of criticism?
Okay, but recognizing and pandering to a hate movement that results in direct harm to people's well-being is not something that most people would fine funny or entertaining.
If Koei-Tecmo legitimately can't handle the heat for making softcore porn games, then maybe they shouldn't put themselves in the fire by doing so in the first place. Pointing fingers at some internet boogeyman that is largely exaggerated if not imaginary much of the time is stupid (especially so if it'd actually cost them money) and cowardly.
.
People who shame others for playing a game with sexualized females like DOAX3 or Dragon's Crown. I believe that to be sex negative.
Like how do you expect people to react when you call them neckbearded virgins?
Why do you expect them to have a measured response to that type of criticism?
They're not making the game for the west in the first place, why do you think the polls were only for Japan and Asia?
This is why I lump 'SJW' at this point with those sort of terms. It becomes increasingly meaningless to the point where it may as well just mean 'person I don't like who's left leaning to a certain extent', much like neckbeard means 'person I don't like who's geeky to a certain extent'.
Internet buzzwords are cancer.
People are in this thread. Articles have been written about it.
I don't have a problem with criticism of these games, but don't be surprised when consumers and sellers of said product are critical and flippant in return with you.
The Dead or Alive series has always been criticized for supposedly being sexist and misogynistic. These are issues that journalists have spoken with Tecmo about in the past. These are issues that Tecmo has addressed in interviews. This isn't a manufactured excuse.
DOAX3 isn't even released in Japan yet, so it's not surprising that "nobody" has complained about the game yet. That being said, it's disingenuous to pretend that this game wouldn't have suffered similar criticisms that previous games have shouldered.
The Physics of Sexism
After 'Gamergate': The Five Most Sexist Video Games Of All Time
The 5 Most Sexist Games of this Generation
Dead or Alive 5 is fighting sexism.. no it isnt
Top 10: Blatantly Misogynistic Games
Misogyny in video gaming: sexist apologists abound in the community
Anyone who thinks the threat of backlash or bad publicity wouldn't be a significant consideration in any cost-benefit analysis of localizing a game are kidding themselves. If the game sold GTA numbers, it wouldn't matter. For a niche title, the threat of backlash could be a determining factor in not localizing the game (which appears to be what has happened in this case.)
This is why I lump 'SJW' at this point with those sort of terms. It becomes increasingly meaningless to the point where it may as well just mean 'person I don't like who's left leaning to a certain extent', much like neckbeard means 'person I don't like who's geeky to a certain extent'.
Internet buzzwords are cancer.
I've never actually heard of someone ordering from J-List. I swear they're just supported by internet adverts. I swear it.
Internet buzzwords are cancer.
Who is shaming people for playing a DOAX3 or Dragon's Crown?
Also no, that's not sex-negative feminism. Sex-negative feminists are those who think women choosing to portray themselves sexually are negative to women as a whole. They're the ones who are against women who choose to be in porn and those who made the decision themselves to be strippers, etc.
you're interpreting this as pissed off? okay....
Oh, cool, then nobody's censoring them from doing what they wanted.
We all forgot Coolio's posts.
DoA is more than just DOAX. If DOAX negatively impacts their more popular DoA fighting game brand in the west, then the risk isn't worth it.
It was said by a person on the internet that has never played the game, I wouldn't worry.
I doubt they'll lose business over it. Rather, it's probably a somewhat calculated decision to pander towards that demographic.
We all forgot Coolio's posts.
DoA is more than just DOAX. If DOAX negatively impacts their more popular DoA fighting game brand in the west, then the risk isn't worth it.
PS, I do believe there is a problem with society and perceived sexuality. I don't think we'll be able to discuss it reasonable with each other though since I do not care to. I'm way to tired.
you're interpreting this as pissed off? okay....
Otoh look at the answers.you're interpreting this as pissed off? okay....
I don't understand how DOAX could damage a brand by doing precisely what the series is already known for.
They're the official distributor for JAST USA (Steins Gate, other VNs)
I ordered from them once, not realizing I could get the same game on Amazon. Price was high. Customer service was slow. Never again.
I had a feeling something like this would eventually happen in response to the PC movement trends of the past few years. That’s not to say it’s critics fault that Koei Tecmo chose not to localize DOAExtreme 3, but I do believe there is something to be said for the backlash that follows what critics end up writing about the various games they criticize.
The problems I have with the PC movement revolves around the backlash and subsequent shaming that follows much of the critical analysis of titles. I also believe the PC movement isn’t as focused as it should be, hitting certain targets that ultimately they shouldn’t be aiming at in favor of other games, anime, and film that are far more deserving of the backlash or criticism, namely the mainstream games that include unneeded and unwanted sexualization. The PC movement, of course, isn’t some kind of monolithic entity, but instead a growing, and vocal, idealism that’s permeating throughout society. And the DOA situation is a direct reflection of the spread of that idealism and the actions that result from it.
Koei Tecmo is absolutely to blame for ultimately choosing to avoid any potential backlash by not publishing their game. However, I find their reaction understandable on two separate grounds. Firstly, from the predominantly business perspective, of wanting to avoid the stigma associated with being accused of sexist and bigoted attitudes. The stigma surrounding these attributes is high, and long-lasting if a company doesn’t at least attempt to address the criticism (unfounded or not.) Normally companies would simply adjust their product in response to this, like Lara Croft’s adjustment between the last two Tomb Raider games, or COD’s inclusion of female soldiers. The trouble is DOAExtreme 3 doesn’t have anywhere to go. It’s purpose is to titillate male gamers with bouncing bosoms. There isn’t really anywhere for that to go, not that the PC movement would be responsive to, at least in my opinion. The very nature of the product stands in the face of what the PC movement— uh, well, stands for.
On the second count: From an artist’s perspective I also understand the fear associated with releasing your product in this atmosphere. Because at the end of the day DOAExtreme3 is a creative work (yes, amongst all the bouncing boobs there’s creativity there.) and receiving harsh criticism that centers on accusations of sexism, bigotry, or racism feel particularly disheartening. Criticism itself is already hard enough to take as a writer, or artist, but to have your work hit with such damaging or shameful labels is particularly grueling. It’s part of why that Dragon’s Crown artist reacted so volatile as he did to that Kotaku article (It was Kotaku right? It’s been awhile since I followed that story.) Sexism, Bigotry, and Racism are not things you wish to be accused of. Those words get thrown around and those labels stick. Just look at all the people damning Play-Asia for its response, swearing off them forever, accusing them of being bigots, anti-progressive, etc. This is something that’ll stick with Play-Asia for sometime and I don’t think they appreciate the long-lasting effects of pissing off a certain segment of individuals. While I don’t think they’ll be bleeding customers because of this, I think word of mouth will cause damage to acquiring new customers over the next few months, perhaps years, totally depends on how long they choose to “fight” this battle. (I’m sure they’ll also lose customers as this incident convinces them to look elsewhere and bring to light better deals anyway.)
Ultimately I feel the PC Movement and Culture has gone too far. The big issue is that PC culture is entirely unfocused. It’s like a kid with a stick swinging at everything around him, instead of attempting to focus in on the pinata. I agree with aspects of the PC ideal, striking blatant and unnecessary sexualization from mainstream entertainment (Metal Gear Solid 5’s Quiet.) or growing female characters from more than a fine ass and a nice set of breasts. But I feel media meant entirely to titillate and arouse (DOA Extreme 3, Senran Kagura, Omega’s Labyrinth, etc.) needs to be viewed in a different fashion. You can’t apply the same expectations to something meant to get the viewer, or gamer, off as something like Assassin’s Creed, or Metal Gear, or Mass Effect. That doesn’t mean these games or types of media are beyond criticism. No, But I think the criticism needs to be focused in a different way. Such as: How or What are they trying to sexualize? For example: Criminal Girls is something I feel deserves heavy criticism for its sexualized depiction of little girls. Or Bullet Girls and its chocolate covered banana you can rub all over the girls during “Play time” sequences. These are things that should be criticized and corrected/refined in these games.
Ultimately the biggest issue is the shaming. Professional Critics aren’t really to blame for this, except maybe for a few who use too colorful/hyperbolic language to describe their position. Instead the shaming comes from the outrage following critics bringing issues to light. I also don’t believe this outrage is manufactured, or inherently wrong, but a natural by-product of our highly connected world thanks to social media. I think the problem is that outrage leads to the shaming, to making individuals feel badly about themselves and their interests.
In Today’s society it’s not unnatural at all to build your identity around your interests or line of work. On a smaller, more intimate scale, people grow attached to the media they consume. How many people still love the original Transformers after all these years? How many people still grow frustrated at Michael Bay’s continued “Reimagining” of their beloved characters? What you like becomes a part of you and in some way when those things you like are attacked you too can feel injured. When a series you enjoy is criticized with such powerful words as being “Sexist” or “Racist” I believe its understandable for people to feel a sense of shame, feeling judged for their interest in the media they consume because that media has been labeled as “wrong.” (Frustration can also mount from a feeling that the media you enjoy has been “Misunderstood.” Heck it’s why few would outright admit to watching porn, especially any extreme fetish content. The sex shaming in our culture is incredibly powerful and extends into media like DOA Extreme 3 (for obvious reasons.)
On a personal level I am not ashamed of the media I consume. I don’t care if Senran Kagura is considered sexist or disgusting, I know in my heart of hearts that it isn’t and that’s enough for me. But other people don’t see it the same way, other people can’t/ or don’t want to divorce themselves from the media they love. I don’t think that’s weak, I think that’s passion. The frustration that results from being shamed is powerful and I’m not surprised at all that this is blowing up, nor am I surprised that people at Koei Tecmo want to ultimately avoid this.
I think the shaming needs to be expressed in a healthier fashion and I think the proper response to games like DOA Extreme 3 or Senran Kagura is not to strike them from the market, or censor them, but to create varied products that appeal to a host of audiences sexually. We need games with male muscles flexing, milfs milfing, beach boys bouncing, trannies trampolining, etc. We shouldn’t want sexualization in sexy games to disappear, but instead become more varied and inclusive.
Again, sorry for the Essay.
TLDR: Sexualization isn't inherently wrong and is okay in games meant to titillate, we just need more diversified sexualized content and less sexualization in mainstream media/franchises. Or something like that, I kinda didn't write it to be summarized.
The trouble is DOAExtreme 3 doesnt have anywhere to go. Its purpose is to titillate male gamers with bouncing bosoms. There isnt really anywhere for that to go, not that the PC movement would be responsive to, at least in my opinion. The very nature of the product stands in the face of what the PC movement uh, well, stands for.
Uh, here's an idea: ADD MEN. Easy.
Honestly. If they added men to the game, I guarantee so many more people would be okay with the game's existence. I know I would.
We all forgot Coolio's posts.
DoA is more than just DOAX. If DOAX negatively impacts their more popular DoA fighting game brand in the west, then the risk isn't worth it.
DOAX isn't DoA. DoA can bypass a lot of the heat by it being a fighting game (an excellent one too mind you) whereas DoAX3's entire premise is eye candy. The social media landscape has changed and I fully understand why a publisher wouldn't be comfortable risking their more profitable mainline installments over the spin-off that already sells in niche numbers.
I don't understand how DOAX could damage a brand by doing precisely what the series is already known for.
But some of the articles linked in that Coolio post in regards to the heat DoA faces are about the fighting games themselves and not the Xtreme Beach spinoff.