Support NeoGAF

[BrutishMrFish]

Yup they are okay accepting money of racists and bigots. But not okay with allowing one in their game.

Uh, no shit. There's nothing wrong with that.

If Pizza Hut had a ton of customers who are white supremacists, that would be understandable because everyone likes pizza. If Pizza Hut started putting a white supremacist in their ads, that would be a bad thing.

 

[Gestault]

They are confident enough to remove him from the game but not confident enough to allow refunds of backers who disagree with the decision. Really makes you think.

Can I point out the self-defeating irony of the two elements?

Yup they are okay accepting money of racists and bigots. But not okay with allowing one in their game.

And before people start early throwing out labels (as people love to on here) I am still buying the game, I am just confused why they would not allow refunds.

It's as simple as there's nothing to refund. They are still getting exactly what their paid for. Not a single person gave money to them on kickstarter thinking Jon was in the game so it makes no sense to refund them.

If they pre-ordered after hearing Jon was in it I imagine they could in fact get a refund in many countries but that simply doesn't apply to kickstarter backers. They are getting exactly what they paid for

Not to mention if the issue were about principle; the idea that people shouldn't have to face material responses to their ideas, protesting that by demanding a refund contradicts the original premise.

Assuming it's not just a lie to attempt to discretely support JonTron's advocacy for white supremacy. Really makes you think.

 

[Lightning_Roller]

Why does he keep getting the benefit of the doubt? He's demonstrated he's not a nice guy and he's not a neutral observer. His posts on this are embarrassing and people who excuse this behavior are looking for reasons to do so.

I don't think your political leanings should mean anything here. Jontron said extremely racist things in context and out of context that should be condemned. If you don't do so, you are not a nice person.

And comparing him to Anita Sarkeesian is the clearest signal yet that Boogie is not a nice person.

Thank you. People who think Boogie is a nice dude is doing themselves a disservice.

 

[Dinjoralo]

Well that escalated quickly

calm down

Banned?

Yeah, banned.

 

[L Thammy]

And now he's crying about being "bullied" again, just like on his best Neogaf Gamergating days.



Can't make this shit up, and I anxiously await the day he'll get the receipts for his bullshit.

"Yes, I know I'm defending a racist, but I'm going to die on this hill!"
"Stop enabling racism you asshole."
"waahhhh you ruined my weekend"

I actually felt bad for this guy back in the day.

 

[psychowave]

Would love for him to tell me how I can meet someone in the middle when they hate my skin color. How would that debate even go down?

What even is the middle ground between "black people are genetically predisposed to commit crimes" and "yeah no that's racist bullshit" supposed to be?

 

[TetraGenesis]

Mhmmm.. Boogie says he disagrees to Jontron idealism and says to disconnect yourself from the artists. And half the people in this thread are acting like 3 year olds saying disgusting shit towards him thinking he's supporting racism.

Im very disgusted with gaffers in this thread today.

Dude, you can go on and get out of here too with this strawman BS. This thread has been incredibly civil and mature outside of a couple very extreme examples (which the thread promptly condemned).

 

[WorldofMiku]

Why does he keep getting the benefit of the doubt?

Because he acts like a nice person. People are being fooled.

 

[Lightning_Roller]

Edit: Sorry about that, folks.

 

[Mahonay]

Dude, you can go on and get out of here too with this strawman BS. This thread has been incredibly civil and mature outside of a couple very extreme examples (which the thread promptly condemned).

I was curious why he hadn't posted yet after everyone responded to him.

Dude was banned for this nonsense.

 

[Gestault]

[redacted]

Yeah, the line is right behind you. If I'm reading this correctly, you stepped over it.

 

[Biske]

All fair points.. the bolded especially. We are seeing only what they allow us to.

At the end of the day though, I don't think he's a bad guy. I don't think he's gonna go out and personally degrade anyone or that he would even feel it was ok to do that in the real world. And honestly as long as he's not harassing people online with the vulgar language, I feel his comments are just immature quips that he thinks makes his stream/videos more interesting. Not saying it's right, but relatively harmless.

It's definitely interesting to see in our modern times of celebrity culture. In previous bygone eras, when you had the public eye, it seems people were more aware of a very carefuly crafted image and opinions. But now with stuff like streaming and the ease of videos its so easy that you don't even have to think about it.

Then you become famous and that ease allows everything to be under the microscope, as it should be. But then we want our cake and eat it too. I want to spend my life enjoying people doing the same things that I do, yet I'm crushed when it turns out, like a normal fucking person, they believe and say some normal fucking terrible things.

Normal in the sense, that these views are stuff we all hear from people around us all the time. (Maybe it depends where you live, I live in a redstate so a lot of this stuff is like "yup hear idiots like this all the time)

Yet since they are a "celebrity" and have a voice and a soap box, we hope and wish they would use it better, yet they've never really given us a reason to expect that.


I don't think Boogie or Jontron are bad guys. They are all very clearly people who really don't know how to handle the spotlight and have made their bread and butter from fellow immature idiots liking them.

But it does make me stop and think, who and what I'm really supporting. It makes me worry about the youtubers and streamers my nephews would watch.

When I talk about toxic, thats what I'm meaning. Its all fun and games on stream, some jizz talk, a toxic "got raped" quip, but that becomes normalized, that becomes "okay" but then they go out and are like "you know blacks commit crime at...." blah blah blah and then how are folks to know? All the crudeness and vulgarity and rape jokes are fine, maybe this disturbing social/political view is fine too, maybe its not such a bad view.



The gaming community to me is just a cesspool.




Edit: I mean for fucking real, I'm trying to finish this stream, and now he's singing "daddy hurts me in the night, because I'm so tight" What in the fuck is this?

 

[17 Seconds]

Because he acts like a nice person. People are being fooled.

his weight and speech impediment probably make people give him the benefit of the doubt more than they should too

 

[FyreWulff]

Why does he keep getting the benefit of the doubt? He's demonstrated he's not a nice guy and he's not a neutral observer. His posts on this are embarrassing and people who excuse this behavior are looking for reasons to do so.

I don't think your political leanings should mean anything here. Jontron said extremely racist things in context and out of context that should be condemned. If you don't do so, you are not a nice person.

And comparing him to Anita Sarkeesian is the clearest signal yet that Boogie is not a nice person.

I always loved how the GG version of "neutrals" are people that almost exclusively retweet/promote conservative and right wing social media accounts/personalities.

 

[Lightning_Roller]

Yeah, the line is right behind you. If I'm reading this correctly, you stepped over it.

Im sorry. I really hate racist. But that was kinda uncalled for.

 

[Anung]

Would love for him to tell me how I can meet someone in the middle when they hate my skin color. How would that debate even go down?

The sickening thing about this to me the smugness of it all. Like what does the middle ground between normal person and racist even look like? It's not people disagreeing on what take out to get for dinner it's people's right to exist. "Well mr black person maybe you didn't try hard enough to meet mr racist cunt in the middle even though he thinks you are barely even human"

Again, to me this makes Boogie almost worse than JonTron. At least you know where you stand with JonTron's awful views.

 

[Crosseyes]

What even is the middle ground between "black people are genetically predisposed to commit crimes" and "yeah no that's racist bullshit" supposed to be?

I guess from their perspective it would be, "Please don't ruin my livelihood for exposing my personal views."

To which I say, they should go fuck themselves.

Kill their financial state, emotional state, social state, everything but their physical state. Racism and those who hold racist beliefs do not morally deserve to live in peace and happiness.

 

[BrutishMrFish]

Not taking a stance on racism is supporting racism.

Plain and simple.

Even if it weren't, equating a legitimate form of critique with racism definitely is. Boogie has no wiggle room here.

What even is the middle ground between "black people are genetically predisposed to commit crimes" and "yeah no that's racist bullshit" supposed to be?

"Why don't you guys just stop talking about it?"

 

[Doctor_Thomas]

You know where you can meet a middle ground? Where neither side is right or wrong, just different.

Government paying for Lunch for school kids vs dinner for the elderly
Choosing to build a new hospital in a city vs building smaller clinics throughout the city
Choosing to have ice cream or cake for dessert

You know, that sort of thing.

You can't meet in the middle with racism vs being against racism. There is no middle ground. I can't just be slightly racist or only racist towards a certain demographic. That's not how this works. The "middle ground" is bullshit, it doesn't exist when one side is clearly wrong. You can't make a case for why racism is a good idea.

 

[Cipherr]

Mhmmm.. Boogie says he disagrees to Jontron idealism and says to disconnect yourself from the artists. And half the people in this thread are acting like 3 year olds saying disgusting shit towards him thinking he's supporting racism.

Im very disgusted with gaffers in this thread today.

Booooy somebody was waiting for an opening to post in this thread weren't you. But you had nothing to go on. And as soon as that junior with 2 posts came in and said something gross you hopped in the thread ASAP to claim "Half" of the posters were posting disgusting remarks, when it was really only 1 burner account.

 

[Gestault]

I guess from their perspective it would be, "Please don't ruin my livelihood for exposing my personal views."

To which I say, they should go fuck themselves.

Kill their financial state, emotional state, social state, everything but their physical state. Racism and those who hold racist beliefs do not morally deserve to live in peace and happiness.

I think it's worth re-pointing out, just for clarity:

JonTron's livelihood has zero connection to his voicework being removed from Yooka-Laylee. Someone raising that point is either wrong-headed to the point of their view being inane, or they're being deliberately deceptive to inaccurately frame an issue.

JonTron alienating himself from his audience is "having his livelihood ruined" in the same sense that a restaurant loses customers by tainting its own food.

 

[Kanann]

I cannot believe he equated Anita and JonTron. I just...I can't believe it.

Anita: "There are some sexist and thoughtless tropes in many video games."

JonTron: "Let's organize America around a white ethnostate!"

This is the hill you drop dead, Boogie........

 

[Skatterd]

I mean, honestly, taking a middle ground in a discussion like this is like saying "I agree with the racists but I don't want to publicly say that because I realize the damage it will do"

 

[R0ckman]

They are confident enough to remove him from the game but not confident enough to allow refunds of backers who disagree with the decision. Really makes you think.

The people asking for refunds are morons, there was no agreement on giving money to support "Yooka-Lelee starring JonTron".

 

[moggio]

I mean, honestly, taking a middle ground in a discussion like this is like saying "I agree with the racists but I don't want to publicly say that because I realize the damage it will do"

I'm basically assuming Boogie sympathises with JonTron on his racist views.

His actions so far have not suggested to me otherwise.

 

[Lightning_Roller]

This is the hill you drop dead, Boogie........

He cant let that happen, though. Gotta pay that mortgage.

 

[brinstar]

I'm just gonna throw this out there, if you're afraid of losing viewers or sales or anything because you take a stand against ideas like brown people fucking up the gene pool, you might be an awful person.

on top of that, if you think condemning racism in your community means you'll likely lose your audience and livelihood, you miiiiiiiiiight wanna reconsider what kind of audience you're playing to and make a change.

 

[Cipherr]

Its really sad too. Boogie used to (and probably still does) have people constantly shitting in his YT comments about his weight and the character he played. And I went pretty fucking hard defending him from gross folks like that; and I stand by that defense. Just sad seeing that he wouldnt extend me the same base level of courtesy when someone turns to me and tells me Im diluting the gene pool and that Im 'genetically predisposed' to being a criminal.

Thanks Boogie, really feeling the love on your pursuit of the middle ground on whether or not Im a worthwhile human being.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

I'm basically assuming Boogie sympathises with JonTron on his racist views.

His actions so far have not suggested to me otherwise.

He's been quoted as saying he respects Jafari for "trying on a new hat", i.e. racism is just another YT personality to adopt.

 

[Armaros]

He's been quoted as saying he respects Jafari for "trying on a new hat", i.e. racism is just another YT personality to adopt.

Put it another way.

'White supremecism and racism is just a phase that YouTubers go through, please be respectful as they learn the YouTube world and grow out of it'

As if Jontron isn't a grown adult and instead a child that needs to be taught that other people deserve respect and equality.

 

[Tomohawk]

Its pretty annoying how certain youtubers are either staying quiet or playing the middle ground shit, they remind me of spineless politicians everyone hates.

 

[Stone Ocean]

The point, in my opinion, is the following: in a perfect world, everyone should be able to talk and express their own beliefs. If those beliefs are a steamy pile of bullcrap, the majority of people (who is actually clever) would just have to ignore aforesaid opinions because it's OBVIOUS they are said by a person who is not so brilliant.
But still, we're way far from living in a perfect world and we lose days and days talking about such matters.

You talk as if beliefs are some zero sum thing, you can just agree to disagree and everyone lives happily ever after.

Newsflash: beliefs can hurt other people, so even in utopian terms your "perfect world" is delusional.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Would love for him to tell me how I can meet someone in the middle when they hate my skin color. How would that debate even go down?

I assume he'd say you're not seeing it from his point of view? That while he might hate your skin colour, you should take the time to find out why he hates your skin colour and then educate him on why it might not be a good idea.

Although I do wonder why this cunt is even talked about here. Seems he shat the bed with the GG thing and yet people still try and say he's a good guy?

 

[Gestault]

The point, in my opinion, is the following: in a perfect world, everyone should be able to talk and express their own beliefs. If those beliefs are a steamy pile of bullcrap, the majority of people (who is actually clever) would just have to ignore aforesaid opinions because it's OBVIOUS they are said by a person who is not so brilliant.
But still, we're way far from living in a perfect world and we lose days and days talking about such matters.

You're putting the cart before the horse. Rather than saying "the world isn't perfect because these topics remain real-world issues," you're placing the focus on, "stop talking about these issues, because in a perfect world they wouldn't exist." It's nonsense.

You're frustrated seeing people discuss and respond to ideas in an open setting. You say your point is that people should be able to freely express their beliefs, which is good, because no one in this scenario is prevented from doing that. The implication people who aren't clever are the ones talking? That's obvious tripe.

 

[Nanashrew]

Catching up on all this Boogie talk. Man, Boogie is an idiot and flip flops so incredibly easily.

 

[JordanN]

The sickening thing about this to me the smugness of it all. Like what does the middle ground between normal person and racist even look like? It's not people disagreeing on what take out to get for dinner it's people's right to exist. "Well mr black person maybe you didn't try hard enough to meet mr racist cunt in the middle even though he thinks you are barely even human"

Again, to me this makes Boogie almost worse than JonTron. At least you know where you stand with JonTron's awful views.

MLK explained his thoughts on the "moderate".

 

[Armaros]

Catching up on all this Boogie talk. Man, Boogie is an idiot and flip flops so incredibly easily.

He is the personification of the golden mean fallacy. That every opposing argument had some sort of middle ground that is the best.

 

[Par Score]

Anybody who's political argument can be boiled down to the ultimate Liberal canard that "The truth is in the middle" is never worth listening to.

It is a position of absolutely zero value in any circumstance of any importance.

Yup they are okay accepting money of racists and bigots. But not okay with allowing one in their game.

And before people start early throwing out labels (as people love to on here) I am still buying the game, I am just confused why they would not allow refunds.

Racists giving money to people who publicly oppose racism is what we call a win-win.

It is completely morally and logically consistent to accept the money of racists if you are opposed to racism.

If I oppose racism, I wan't racists to have less money to potentially be racist with. If I oppose racism, I wan't opponents of racism to have more money to potentially oppose racism with. It's a total slam-dunk.

 

[Lightning_Roller]

MLK explained his thoughts on the "moderate".

Man, this continues to be true even today.

 

[Spider from Mars]

Boogie would have been a big supporter of the 3/5ths compromise.

 

[Silver Arrows]

Catching up on all this Boogie talk. Man, Boogie is an idiot and flip flops so incredibly easily.

I have said it before, and will say it again: Boogie is a pretty willing schmuck of the alt-right. This is the persona he puts out for everyone, and yet it is so goddamn transparent.

 

[Gestault]

Man, this continues to be true even today.

The most upsetting truth about MLK's words is that they're seemingly universal insight into human behavior, more than just an understanding of the events and attitudes of his time.

 

[Lightning_Roller]

The most upsetting truth about MLK's words is that they're seemingly universal insight into human behavior, more than just an understanding of the events and attitudes of his time.

Indeed. And once again, my earlier post was out of line. Im just angry that casual and extreme racism is slowly becoming accepted. I just get so mad about that fact its happening that i just want to knock out one of those assholes with a right hook.

 

[Skyzard]

Racists have been really emboldened by hiding in their numbers with their reprehensible comments that they can play off as reasonable with all their supporters. It's pretty fucking disgraceful.

We've definitely regressed from the 1990s in a big way here.

Some of these animals ought to be caged to be honest. Or their mummies should take away their pc power cable.

 

[mrlion]

They are confident enough to remove him from the game but not confident enough to allow refunds of backers who disagree with the decision. Really makes you think.

Yeah it does make me think....that people are pretty stupid. He's just a YouTuber nothing more I still don't hold YouTubers as celebrities nor a big deal. They are replacing the experience and enjoyment of a video game with a fake idol.

 

[Nanashrew]

He is the personification of the golden mean fallacy. That every opposing argument had some sort of middle ground that is the best.

I have said it before, and will say it again: Boogie is a pretty willing schmuck of the alt-right. This is the persona he puts out for everyone, and yet it is so goddamn transparent.

Oh definitely. I mentioned before in the previous thread how he seems to do it out of self preservation. He doesn't like the idea of being disliked and in constantly searching for a middle ground he often show little to no morals or ethics. Just reading the past few pages even shows this in how he equated feminism and white supremacy in his comparison of Anita and JonTron. He's not a nice person and has no opinion or stance of his own.

 

[Fahzgoolin]

Thank you for this.

 

[Skyzard]

^

Yeah it really is good and apt.

 

[Slayven]

I have said it before, and will say it again: Boogie is a pretty willing schmuck of the alt-right. This is the persona he puts out for everyone, and yet it is so goddamn transparent.

He should just be honest, he caping for these fools because he probably agrees with them.

 

[NHarmonic.]

It's definitely interesting to see in our modern times of celebrity culture. In previous bygone eras, when you had the public eye, it seems people were more aware of a very carefuly crafted image and opinions. But now with stuff like streaming and the ease of videos its so easy that you don't even have to think about it.

Then you become famous and that ease allows everything to be under the microscope, as it should be. But then we want our cake and eat it too. I want to spend my life enjoying people doing the same things that I do, yet I'm crushed when it turns out, like a normal fucking person, they believe and say some normal fucking terrible things.

Normal in the sense, that these views are stuff we all hear from people around us all the time. (Maybe it depends where you live, I live in a redstate so a lot of this stuff is like "yup hear idiots like this all the time)

Yet since they are a "celebrity" and have a voice and a soap box, we hope and wish they would use it better, yet they've never really given us a reason to expect that.


I don't think Boogie or Jontron are bad guys. They are all very clearly people who really don't know how to handle the spotlight and have made their bread and butter from fellow immature idiots liking them.

But it does make me stop and think, who and what I'm really supporting. It makes me worry about the youtubers and streamers my nephews would watch.

When I talk about toxic, thats what I'm meaning. Its all fun and games on stream, some jizz talk, a toxic "got raped" quip, but that becomes normalized, that becomes "okay" but then they go out and are like "you know blacks commit crime at...." blah blah blah and then how are folks to know? All the crudeness and vulgarity and rape jokes are fine, maybe this disturbing social/political view is fine too, maybe its not such a bad view.



The gaming community to me is just a cesspool.




Edit: I mean for fucking real, I'm trying to finish this stream, and now he's singing "daddy hurts me in the night, because I'm so tight" What in the fuck is this?

I mean, if being a racist piece of shit isn't considered bad by your standards, wow. It really doesn't matter if your state is red af and full of them, they are still crap.

Nice move from playtonic.