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PoliGAF Official May 6th Primary Thread (All I need is a Hirracle, all I need is you)

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G

GrotesqueBeauty

Banned
MightyHedgehog said:
Too drawn out and belabored to be very funny, IMO.
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I agree it was too drawn out (like every SNL skit for the past decade). It was still nice to see them get their jabs in considering she once used their joke about the press and Obama as a platform to air her grievances though. Somehow I doubt she'll be so eager to quote this episode.
 
D

Dan

No longer boycotting the Wolfenstein franchise
GrotesqueBeauty said:
I agree it was too drawn out (like every SNL skit for the past decade). It was still nice to see them get their jabs in considering she once used their joke about the press and Obama as a platform to air her grievances though. Somehow I doubt she'll be so eager to quote this episode.
Click to expand...
She'll turn it into a reason to stay in the race.
 
S

Synth_floyd

Banned
That SNL skit isn't funny. It's just stating the obvious. Go to any anti-Hillary blog and you'll read basically the exact same thing, except it isn't coming out of the mouth of a mediocre Hillary impersonator and there's no laughter in the background.
 
A

Amir0x

Banned
maximum360 said:
The Obamas' playing Uno: http://www.skaneatelesdesign.com/2008/05/10/barack-obama-plays-uno-with-wife-and-kids-4th-july-2007/
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Man Obama is really good at seeming genuine when it comes to his family.

Anyway, I liked this article on the rise of Obama and his now almost certainly historic capturing of the Democratic Presidential Nomination. Raises some interesting questions too.

It's not just about him, of course. If America can seriously think of putting a black man in the White House, surely it must also profoundly rethink the relevance of race, the power of prejudice, the logic of affirmative action and other societal forces that have evolved slowly through the eras of Jim Crow, desegregation and massive immigration.

Maybe the toughest question is this:

Is Obama, with his incandescent smile and silky oratory, a once-in-a-century phenomenon who will blast open doors only to see them quickly close on less extraordinary blacks?

Or is he the lucky and well-timed beneficiary of racial dynamics that have changed faster than most people realized, a trend that presumably will soon yield more black governors, senators, mayors and council members?
Click to expand...

It will be curious after this whole thing is over, and Obama serves his eight years, where the country stands in its maturity towards race. Can we finally let go of Affirmative Action? It's one of my largest desires, as I want AA eliminated. It's no doubt there is a lot of pressure on his shoulders to maintain such a high tone during his entire presidency, to lead by example for future generations.
 
C

Cheebs

Member
Amir0x said:
Man Obama is really good at seeming genuine when it comes to his family.
Click to expand...
Well maybe cause he is the only candidate left who has never cheated on his wife left in the race. ;) (If he did the media would have dug it up, like they did with McCain they always find out).

Also I dont think Obama is opening the door to tons of African Americans to be president. He is the right african american at the right time.

But that isnt to say there aren't worthy african american politicians out there. Who knows? Someone like Deval Patrick could run for president in 10 years or so and win. If he wins at the very least it will make the idea and possibility seem less weird so the americans might be more accepting of more.

Though I doubt it will end Aff. Action forever I feel Obama being elected will make people think racism is gone. It won't be gone but people will like to fool themselves into thinking it is.
 
A

Amir0x

Banned
Deus Ex Machina said:
Newsweek Cover Story: The O Team

080509_COVER_small-thumb4.jpg


How do you know if Barack Obama is unhappy with what you're saying— or not saying? At meetings of his closest advisers, he likes to lean back, put his feet on the table and close his eyes. If he doesn't like how the conversation is going, he will lean forward, put his feet on the floor and "adjust his socks, kind of start tugging at them," says Michael Strautmanis, a counselor to the campaign. Obama wants people to talk, but he doesn't want to intimidate them. "If you haven't said anything, he'll call on you," says Strautmanis. "He's never said it, but he usually thinks if somebody is very quiet it's because they disagree with what everybody is saying … so Barack will call on you and say, 'You've been awfully quiet'." There are no screamers on Team Obama; one senior Obama aide says he's heard him yell only twice in four years. Obama was explicit from the beginning: there was to be "no drama," he told his aides. "I don't want elbowing or finger-pointing. We're going to rise or fall together." Obama wanted steady, calm, focused leadership; he wanted to keep out the grandstanders and make sure the quiet dissenters spoke up. A good formula for running a campaign—or a presidency.

Full Story here: http://www.newsweek.com/id/136440
Click to expand...

Just saw this.

Make this man president etc etc
 
T

titiklabingapat

Member
Cheebs said:
Well maybe cause he is the only candidate left who has never cheated on his wife left in the race. ;) (If he did the media would have dug it up, like they did with McCain they always find out).

Also I dont think Obama is opening the door to tons of African Americans to be president. He is the right african american at the right time.

But that isnt to say there aren't worthy african american politicians out there. Who knows? Someone like Deval Patrick could run for president in 10 years or so and win. If he wins at the very least it will make the idea and possibility seem less weird so the americans might be more accepting of more.

Though I doubt it will end Aff. Action forever I feel Obama being elected will make people think racism is gone. It won't be gone but people will like to fool themselves into thinking it is.
Click to expand...
Well, I for one am avoiding the coasts from here on out.
 
J

JoshuaJSlone

Member
article Amir0x posted said:
Maybe the toughest question is this:

Is Obama, with his incandescent smile and silky oratory, a once-in-a-century phenomenon who will blast open doors only to see them quickly close on less extraordinary blacks?

Or is he the lucky and well-timed beneficiary of racial dynamics that have changed faster than most people realized, a trend that presumably will soon yield more black governors, senators, mayors and council members?
Click to expand...
Whether the next president is black, old, or uhh... female, I don't think that's much a sign of shit ending for that group beyond those in power. Hell, Reagan's 8 years haven't stopped age jabs on the slightly-older McCain.
 
N

numble

Member
jak stat said:
How many slots? Too bad there's no stipend for food or housing, especially considering how well funded they are.
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I don't know how many slots, I bet they'll accept most people since everyone's offering free work. When I heard the number of applicants from the campaign official, she made it sound like, "we have X number of applicants, so we'll have X number of people working for us for 6 weeks for free in the summer."

My experience with working for free for the campaign during the primary season (I did it in Pennsylvania and now Oregon) is that they usually are able to find housing for you (local Obama supporters with extra bedroom or two to spare, usually older folk whose kids have left the nest--sometimes these hosts feed you), and that there's a lot of free food out of the office you're working at (some bought by campaign, but a lot donated by local supporters). It might be that a close upcoming primary was the reason why there were plenty of supporters to provide food/housing, and that there might be less offered in the summer when it's 3-5 months away from November, but I doubt it.
 
C

Cheebs

Member
JoshuaJSlone said:
Whether the next president is black, old, or uhh... female, I don't think that's much a sign of shit ending for that group beyond those in power. Hell, Reagan's 8 years haven't stopped age jabs on the slightly-older McCain.
Click to expand...
There isnt a glass ceiling for old people like there is blacks. It isn't even comparable.
 
W

WedgeX

Banned
Nice Op-Ed piece from the NY Times today on how the media missed why Clinton had less of a chance to secure the nomination than they originally predicted.

“It’s still early,” Mrs. Clinton said on Wednesday. Though it’s way too late for her, she’s half-right. We’re only at the end of the beginning of this extraordinary election year. While we wait out her self-immolating exit, it’s a good time to pause the 24/7 roller coaster for a second and get our bearings. The reason that politicians and the press have gotten so much so wrong is that we keep forgetting what year it is. Only if we reboot to 2008 will the long march to November start making sense.

...

Almost every wrong prediction about this election cycle has come from those trying to force the round peg of this year’s campaign into the square holes of past political wars. That’s why race keeps being portrayed as dooming Mr. Obama — surely Jeremiah Wright = Willie Horton! — no matter what the voters say to the contrary. It’s why the Beltway took on faith the Clinton machine’s strategic, organization and fund-raising invincibility. It’s why some prognosticators still imagine that John McCain can spin the Iraq fiasco to his political advantage as Richard Nixon miraculously did Vietnam.

The year 2008 is far more complex — and exhilarating — than the old templates would have us believe. Of course we’re in pain. More voters think the country is on the wrong track (81 percent) than at any time in the history of New York Times/CBS News polling on that question. George W. Bush is the most unpopular president that any living American has known.

And yet, paradoxically, there is a heartening undertow: we know the page will turn. For all the anger and angst over the war and the economy, for all the campaign’s acrimony, the anticipation of ending the Bush era is palpable, countering the defeatist mood. The repressed sliver of joy beneath the national gloom can be seen in the record registration numbers of new voters and the over-the-top turnout in Democratic primaries.

Mr. Obama hardly created this moment, with its potent brew of Bush loathing and sweeping generational change. He simply had the vision to tap into it. Running in 2008 rather than waiting four more years was the single smartest political decision he’s made (and, yes, he’s made dumb ones too). The second smartest was to understand and emphasize that subterranean, nearly universal anticipation of change rather than settle for the narrower band of partisan, dyspeptic Bush-bashing. We don’t know yet if he’s the man who can make the moment — and won’t know unless he gets to the White House — but there’s no question that the moment has helped make the man.

For five years boomers have been asking, “Why are the kids not in the streets screaming about the war the way we were?” The simple answer: no draft. But as Morley Winograd and Michael D. Hais show in “Millennial Makeover,” their book about the post-1982 American generation, that energy has been plowed into quieter social activism and grand-scale social networking, often linked on the same Web page. The millennials’ bottom-up digital superstructure was there to be mined, for an amalgam of political organizing, fund-raising and fun, and Mr. Obama’s camp knew how to work it. The part of the press that can’t tell the difference between Facebook and, say, AOL, was too busy salivating over the Clintons’ vintage 1990s roster of fat-cat donors to hear the major earthquake rumbling underground.
Click to expand...

More at the link, obviously, but it sums up what they (including the NY Times) has failed to account for during the primaries. Can't wait to see how this plays out in the GE.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/11/opinion/11rich.html?hp

edit:

Cheebs said:
There isnt a glass ceiling for old people like there is blacks. It isn't even comparable.
Click to expand...

Oh on that note, the Op-Ed hit on that, too.

The demographic reshaping of the electoral map, though more widely noted, still isn’t fully understood. From Rust Belt Ohio through Tuesday’s primaries, cable bloviators have been fixated on the older, white, working-class vote. Their unspoken (and truly condescending) assumption, lately embraced by Mrs. Clinton, is that these voters are Reagan Democrats, cryogenically frozen since 1980, who come in two flavors: rubes who will be duped by a politician backing a gas-tax pander or racists who are out of Mr. Obama’s reach.

Guess what: there are racists in America and, yes, the occasional rubes (even among Obama voters). Some of them may reside in Indiana, which hasn’t voted for a national Democratic ticket since 1964. But there are many more white working-class voters, both Clinton and Obama supporters, who prefer Democratic policies after seven years of G.O.P. failure. And there is little evidence to suggest that there are enough racists of any class in America, let alone in swing states, to determine the results come fall.

...

But this isn’t 2004, and the fixation on that one demographic in the Clinton-Obama contest has obscured the big picture. The rise in black voters and young voters of all races in Democratic primaries is re-weighting the electorate. Look, for instance, at Ohio, the crucial swing state that Mr. Kerry lost by 119,000 votes four years ago. This year black voters accounted for 18 percent of the state’s Democratic primary voters, up from 14 percent in 2004, an increase of some 230,000 voters out of an overall turnout leap of roughly a million. Voters under 30 (up by some 245,000 voters) accounted for 16 percent, up from 9 in 2004. Those younger Ohio voters even showed up in larger numbers than the perennially reliable over-65 crowd.
Click to expand...
 
F

Frank the Great

Banned
just joined the facebook group "obama and sebelius for '08"

been watching her speak and i am becoming a pretty big fan. it makes me feel good that i can support a prominent female politician...i used to worry that the only reason i hated hillary clinton so much is because of a subconscious aversion to the thought of a female president. but after watching sebelius speak and looking up her record, i realize it's a purely clinton thing -no sexism - and i would love to see sebelius in the white house.
 
T

theBishop

Banned
Amir0x said:
Man Obama is really good at seeming genuine when it comes to his family.

Anyway, I liked this article on the rise of Obama and his now almost certainly historic capturing of the Democratic Presidential Nomination. Raises some interesting questions too.

It will be curious after this whole thing is over, and Obama serves his eight years, where the country stands in its maturity towards race. Can we finally let go of Affirmative Action? It's one of my largest desires, as I want AA eliminated. It's no doubt there is a lot of pressure on his shoulders to maintain such a high tone during his entire presidency, to lead by example for future generations.
Click to expand...

Getting rid of affirmative action is one of your largest desires?

Really?

For me affirmative action has always been a theoretical or political issue that i've never actually seen in the wild. If I never heard about it from external sources I'd have no idea such a thing exists.
 
F

Frank the Great

Banned
affirmative action should be done away with. it should be replaced with a class action program. people's skin color shouldn't be the issue, the income level should be. of course, seeing as how so many blacks live in poverty, this would benefit them. but there's no reason a poor black man should get accepted into a uni over a poor white man who is more qualified.

to become mature in our race relations we need to realize that it isnt a RACE problem it is a $$$ problem. affirmative action addresses the product of the $$$ problem, without fixing the cause, and it itself breeds racial resentment.
 
A

Amir0x

Banned
theBishop said:
Getting rid of affirmative action is one of your largest desires?

Really?

For me affirmative action has always been a theoretical or political issue that i've never actually seen in the wild. If I never heard about it from external sources I'd have no idea such a thing exists.
Click to expand...

Yup, one of my largest desires.

I have seen it in the wild. One such example pertains to the place I work at, Tobyhanna Army Depot. Now to secure a blue badge, you obviously need the experience and whatnot. But it is actual policy to give preference on the following measure.

1. Veterans
2. African Americans
3. Other Minorities
4. Other qualified individuals

So, two qualified individuals. One is African American, one is white. The African American will, nine times out of ten, receive the position.
 
T

theBishop

Banned
Francois the Great said:
affirmative action should be done away with. it should be replaced with a class action program. people's skin color shouldn't be the issue, the income level should be. of course, seeing as how so many blacks live in poverty, this would benefit them. but there's no reason a poor black man should get accepted into a uni over a poor white man who is more qualified.

to become mature in our race relations we need to realize that it isnt a RACE problem it is a $$$ problem. affirmative action addresses the product of the $$$ problem, without fixing the cause, and it itself breeds racial resentment.
Click to expand...

At a high level, I agree with you. But when we're talking about individuals going out for a job interview, I think its human nature that a boss wants to see himself (herself?) in the potential hire. If an employer feels like there's a fundamental difference between himself and the interviewee, that person is at a disadvantage.
 
F

Frank the Great

Banned
theBishop said:
At a high level, I agree with you. But when we're talking about individuals going out for a job interview, I think its human nature that a boss wants to see himself (herself?) in the potential hire. If an employer feels like there's a fundamental difference between himself and the interviewee, that person is at a disadvantage.
Click to expand...

and the other person is at a disadvantage if the government tells the boss to higher someone else based on race :-/
 
S

schuelma

Wastes hours checking old Famitsu software data, but that's why we love him.
Francois the Great said:
affirmative action should be done away with. it should be replaced with a class action program. people's skin color shouldn't be the issue, the income level should be. of course, seeing as how so many blacks live in poverty, this would benefit them. but there's no reason a poor black man should get accepted into a uni over a poor white man who is more qualified.

to become mature in our race relations we need to realize that it isnt a RACE problem it is a $$$ problem. affirmative action addresses the product of the $$$ problem, without fixing the cause, and it itself breeds racial resentment.
Click to expand...


bingo. The problem with many AA programs, at least at the educational level, is it does nothing to help the minorities that need it. I was at Michigan when Grutter and Gratz were decided- the minorities I met at UM all had a lot more money than me and did not need AA in the slightest. The kids who really need it are the kids in Detroit I tutored who probably won't even take the SAT's because of how horrible the schools are.
 
Z

Zeed

Banned
Amir0x said:
Can we finally let go of Affirmative Action? It's one of my largest desires, as I want AA eliminated.
Click to expand...
Me too, but don't let Liara T'Soni hear that. She'll call you a racist.
 
K

Kitschkraft

Member
Zeed said:
Me too, but don't let Liara T'Soni hear that. She'll call you a racist.
Click to expand...

Go fuck yourself you petty bastard.

I wasn't even going to say anything, but honestly, since I was brought up, I will add that I would be weary of anyone who could honestly say that with all the problems going on in America and the world, in conjunction with all the stats on race and poverty as well as the historical legacy of racism in this country, that AA is one of their biggest gripes.

To me, that comes off as completely self-important, naive, and a bit smug.

I wouldn't even remember you're name, but obviously, I had quite the affect on you.

*Update ignore list*
 
Z

Zaptruder

Banned
Deus Ex Machina said:
Newsweek Cover Story: The O Team

080509_COVER_small-thumb4.jpg


How do you know if Barack Obama is unhappy with what you're saying— or not saying? At meetings of his closest advisers, he likes to lean back, put his feet on the table and close his eyes. If he doesn't like how the conversation is going, he will lean forward, put his feet on the floor and "adjust his socks, kind of start tugging at them," says Michael Strautmanis, a counselor to the campaign. Obama wants people to talk, but he doesn't want to intimidate them. "If you haven't said anything, he'll call on you," says Strautmanis. "He's never said it, but he usually thinks if somebody is very quiet it's because they disagree with what everybody is saying … so Barack will call on you and say, 'You've been awfully quiet'." There are no screamers on Team Obama; one senior Obama aide says he's heard him yell only twice in four years. Obama was explicit from the beginning: there was to be "no drama," he told his aides. "I don't want elbowing or finger-pointing. We're going to rise or fall together." Obama wanted steady, calm, focused leadership; he wanted to keep out the grandstanders and make sure the quiet dissenters spoke up. A good formula for running a campaign—or a presidency.

Full Story here: http://www.newsweek.com/id/136440
Click to expand...

The more I hear about Obama, the giddier I get... he's just an upstanding, decent moral man that has the ability to navigate washington politics in an amazingly decent and moral way!
 
H

harSon

Banned
The only difference between a class-based system and the current system is that there is structure (racially) for the latter. A class-based system would still have racial undertones, the overwhelming amount of poverty stricken citizens in the US are in fact white. While the system would be fine, it is not a system that would be all that beneficial to minorities.
 
Z

Zeed

Banned
Liara T'Soni said:
Go fuck yourself you petty bastard.

I wasn't even going to say anything, but honestly, since I was brought up, I will add that I would be weary of anyone who could honestly say that with all the problems going on in America and the world, in conjunction with all the stats on race and poverty as well as the historical legacy of racism in this country, that AA is one of their biggest gripes.

To me, that comes off as completely self-important, naive, and a bit smug

I wouldn't even remember you're name, but obviously, I had quite the affect on you.

*Update ignore list*
Click to expand...
Thanks for proving my point.
 
R

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
Liara T'Soni said:
Go fuck yourself you petty bastard.

I wasn't even going to say anything, but honestly, since I was brought up, I will add that I would be weary of anyone who could honestly say that with all the problems going on in America and the world, in conjunction with all the stats on race and poverty as well as the historical legacy of racism in this country, that AA is one of their biggest gripes.

To me, that comes off as completely self-important, naive, and a bit smug.

I wouldn't even remember you're name, but obviously, I had quite the affect on you.

*Update ignore list*
Click to expand...

:lol

Holy shit. Sensitive much, are we?
 
Z

Zeed

Banned
reilo said:
:lol

Holy shit. Sensitive much, are we?
Click to expand...
In all seriousness Liara is one of the most hateful people I've seen on GAF. I wouldn't necessarily go so far as to call her a racist, but she's singleminded in her approach to any remotely racial issue and vulgar towards anyone who disagrees with her.
 
K

Kitschkraft

Member
reilo said:
:lol

Holy shit. Sensitive much, are we?
Click to expand...

I hate getting attacked out of nowhere.

Also, the "woe is me, I'm always getting called racist even though I know black people" shit is fucking annoying, I don't care about anyones personal opinions on blacks, that means nothing, whats important is policy and power structures.
 
Z

Zeed

Banned
Liara T'Soni said:
Also, the "woe is me, I'm always getting called racist even though I know black people" shit is fucking annoying
Click to expand...
You are actually the first person, on the internet or in real life, to ever call me a racist and actually seem to mean it.
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
WedgeX said:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/11/opinion/11rich.html?hp
Click to expand...
There's been a lot of great reading the past few days. The Newsweek cover, the Time cover, the AP piece amir0x posted, and now this, which is spot-on.

But as long as the likely Democratic nominee keeps partying like it’s 2008 while everyone else refights the battles of yesteryear, he will continue to be underestimated every step of the way.
Click to expand...
Zaptruder said:
The more I hear about Obama, the giddier I get... he's just an upstanding, decent moral man that has the ability to navigate washington politics in an amazingly decent and moral way!
Click to expand...
I'm still a bit stunned such a character not only exists, but that he's winning. It is simply too good to be true. But it is.
 
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