Does it matter to the user if the game did a full install or not, if they can start playing their games in 10 seconds? Because after PS3 shenanigans, it certainly didn't matter to me.
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Potato Masher (console-level used PC) vs PS4/PS4 Pro in Watch_Dogs 2
- Thread starter Sad Affleck
- Start date
Does it matter to the user if the game did a full install or not, if they can start playing their games in 10 seconds? Because after PS3 shenanigans, it certainly didn't matter to me.
Not really the point of the video mate.
It does not matter to the user. These quick installs are one of the best things Sony has done.
So bumping this again to prove my point. Here's video → http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5jof9b
And, as you can see from video, you don't even need to download all updates to start the game because there's an option "Start application without downloading updates" for that.
He was talking about last gen consoles in that quote no? surprised you bothered to make the vid though.
You're missing the point. The point is to see if 5-8 year old hardware still holds up for PC gaming. It does.
If we're comparing new for new, this is a brand new computer for $274 and modern parts that matches the OG PS4:
https://pcpartpicker.com/list/vJJqyf
And here's a brand new computer that matches the PS4 pro in hardware for $374:
https://pcpartpicker.com/list/Z2QMd6
grandwizard
Member
You've just given them an objective. I'm sure certain parts of this forum would love to never have to be faced with the facts coming from these potato masher videos when they disprove the constant and often repeated myths about pc gaming.
hououinkyouma00
Member
I swear sometimes Gaf makes me feel like I'm on 4chan. People just argue to argue, there are obviously benefits to both consoles and PC gaming not a single person can deny that. People that shit on the other side without owning one shouldn't have a voice in the argument, nor should this be an argument at all.
These videos are super interesting, I had to sell my gaming pc for money reasons a half year ago, think I might build something similar but with a g4560.
These videos are super interesting, I had to sell my gaming pc for money reasons a half year ago, think I might build something similar but with a g4560.
At least the one in the OP mentions a console built close to the launch years and the price then. Of course, specs from 2014 are going to be cheap now, but you wouldn't have been able to build that $274 PC for the same price back in 2014. You can get a PS4 Slim now for $250 with a game and controller.
Also without performance comparison, your lists of parts are fairly useless.
Both the cpu and the gpus perform on par with the the parts in the videos, so.... And by your same metric, you wouldn't have been able to get a PS4 slim for $250 back in 2014 either. Not to mention you'd have to get ps+ for that $250 slim.
hikarutilmitt
Member
4chan? The internet itself.
But seriously, yes. It's silly, people won't agree. The party being derided will feel shat on simply because they, well, are, regardless of facts. This is a case where how you present the data matters more than the data itself. It's the game equivalent of saying "GG" after being curbstomped in a competitive match of pretty much anything. People can, and will, feel slighted by things like this.
That being said, I do find this interesting, but a bit disingenuous. The hardware can perform the same or better, yes, but there are so many other factors in play than just matching the hardware numbers that it's comparing varieties of apples and saying one is clearly the superior fruit.
LelouchZero
Member
Not with that CPU, that's a dual core Skylake without hyper-threading, the G4560 is the one you'd want in those builds which is a dual core Kaby with hyper-threading.
Spyder_Monkey
Banned
Who's going to do this?
I thought I put in a g4560. But yeah, the 4560 is the same exact price(It's actually cheaper weirdly enough?) as a 4500 anyway, so it works out, with the same parts even.
For someone just getting into gaming, choosing between a console or PC, is tricky.
Maybe its the kid who got his first job and wants to buy into current Gen gaming.
Maybe its an adult who has been out of gaming for some years. Who knows.
But the idea of being able to salvage and upgrade an old computer, is very, very circumstantial.
People with PCs that can accept upgrades, probably already have a custom build in their house. And therefore probably already have ties, even if familial, to PC gaming. Yeah, a lot of people on this forum probably have access to an old custom build. We exist in a bubble.
The amount of viably upgradeable desktops from dell, Lenovo, etc are quite small.
And that's if people even still have a desktop around. Many people have laptops in their house. I worked at Staples in 2013 and we were selling laptops 10:1 against desktops. There were also many people looking at tablets to avoid laptop or desktop, at all.
But lets have a look at the family Dell or Lenovo desktop, which has survived being replaced by a laptop. Heck, it might have an 2500k, or even better, a sandy or ivy bridge i5 in it. Shoot, it might even have an i7.
Does it even have a slot for a gpu?
Is it a slim tower? You have one choice for an upgrade and that will put you right about even with a PS4. And that's if the slim towers even has free space around that GPU slot.
But, what's that slim power supply like? You may not even be able to use that one GPU choice.
Does it have 8gb of ram? If not, is there a free ram slot? or will we need to buy all new ram to get 8gb in there?
Ok, its a regular tower and has a gpu slot.
What's that power supply like?
Is the inside of the case layed out in such a way, that a regular width gpu or larger power supply can fit?
Or, the CPU is good, the mobo has a gpu slot, but we need a different case to get a gpu to fit or a new power supply but-----oh wait, the motherboard isn't atx standard. Will it fit into an aftermarket case?
What if you have to reinstall your OS? Will you be able to figure a way to turn your restore partition into a fresh install with the new hardware?
Will the motherboard even allow hardware or OS changes? Dell, lenovo, HP, etc have all been known to have microcode I some modles, which restricts such changes.
There can be ways around it, but will Joe upgrade even know what he has just run into? And does he know enough to be resourceful enough, to otherwise figure out the way around it?
I have worked on a very high end dell workstation, which had special data cables which made the hard drive appear to run on a proprietary connection. It was actually a normal HDD. But you really had to get in there and totally take it all out, to see that.
This isn't easy stuff. Unfortunately, the open platform idea of a PC is a product, is a market segment. Not a rule.
Maybe its the kid who got his first job and wants to buy into current Gen gaming.
Maybe its an adult who has been out of gaming for some years. Who knows.
But the idea of being able to salvage and upgrade an old computer, is very, very circumstantial.
People with PCs that can accept upgrades, probably already have a custom build in their house. And therefore probably already have ties, even if familial, to PC gaming. Yeah, a lot of people on this forum probably have access to an old custom build. We exist in a bubble.
The amount of viably upgradeable desktops from dell, Lenovo, etc are quite small.
And that's if people even still have a desktop around. Many people have laptops in their house. I worked at Staples in 2013 and we were selling laptops 10:1 against desktops. There were also many people looking at tablets to avoid laptop or desktop, at all.
But lets have a look at the family Dell or Lenovo desktop, which has survived being replaced by a laptop. Heck, it might have an 2500k, or even better, a sandy or ivy bridge i5 in it. Shoot, it might even have an i7.
Does it even have a slot for a gpu?
Is it a slim tower? You have one choice for an upgrade and that will put you right about even with a PS4. And that's if the slim towers even has free space around that GPU slot.
But, what's that slim power supply like? You may not even be able to use that one GPU choice.
Does it have 8gb of ram? If not, is there a free ram slot? or will we need to buy all new ram to get 8gb in there?
Ok, its a regular tower and has a gpu slot.
What's that power supply like?
Is the inside of the case layed out in such a way, that a regular width gpu or larger power supply can fit?
Or, the CPU is good, the mobo has a gpu slot, but we need a different case to get a gpu to fit or a new power supply but-----oh wait, the motherboard isn't atx standard. Will it fit into an aftermarket case?
What if you have to reinstall your OS? Will you be able to figure a way to turn your restore partition into a fresh install with the new hardware?
Will the motherboard even allow hardware or OS changes? Dell, lenovo, HP, etc have all been known to have microcode I some modles, which restricts such changes.
There can be ways around it, but will Joe upgrade even know what he has just run into? And does he know enough to be resourceful enough, to otherwise figure out the way around it?
I have worked on a very high end dell workstation, which had special data cables which made the hard drive appear to run on a proprietary connection. It was actually a normal HDD. But you really had to get in there and totally take it all out, to see that.
This isn't easy stuff. Unfortunately, the open platform idea of a PC is a product, is a market segment. Not a rule.
You missed my point. The PS4 was $399 at launch and the best this guy could do to make something comparable was a PC built with used parts for $375. The best you can do now still isn't cheaper than a PS4 and it even comes with a game and controller.
If you're going to add the PS+ sub, it's not mandatory and I would compare it to a PC humble monthly subscription that comes with online play without hackers and cheaters.
The guy who did it?
The difference is the humble monthly bundle isn't required to play my games online.
And the bolded part..stereotypes that I hardly ever encounted in my many, many years of PC gaming, it was definitely more common 15 years ago though.
Man you're really going in hard to defend against literally nothing. Keep fighting the good fight lol
Yeah, lets see how this year's scorpio presentation turns out: "Buy it only if you like Forza 7 or Halo 6. Other than that everything you see would be possible on last years 1070.".
Of course Sony and Microsoft are building a narrative where what you are seeing in their 1st party offerings is only possible on their hardware.
Read the Scorpio reveal on digital foundry and look how often they quote MS talking up all the customization of the hardware with vague technobabble and little to no substance backing those claims up. PS4 and Xbone are practically the same hardware and both are basically PCs. What they display could run anywhere else at about the same quality.
The spinning is getting silly, especially with the mid-generation refreshs that are really just very tame GPU upgrades and demand relative hefty price premiums for what they deliver (assuming 500$ for Scorpio).
That said I get the choice for a console over a PC. Convenience is a great argument for a pastime activity and more than anytime in the past you get basically the same, uncompromised experience everywhere.
The ps4 pro equivalent is indeed cheaper than the current PS4 pro, the slim is barely cheaper than its equivalent, you're being pretty disingenuous comparing PS+ with humble monthly sub(Never even considered getting one tbh)... And you're still missing the point that the video was more to show that 2009, 2014 parts still don't need to be upgraded to keep up with consoles, there is no coding to the metal magic here.
As someone who mainly started playing PC games in the past year or so, I have seen more hackers and cheaters playing Multiplayer games than I ever have in my decade or so of console gaming. Frustrating to the point I have stopped buying multiplayer games on PC, I made a exception for Battlegrounds recently, but I don't have high hopes for that either.
These videos to me show the viability of old PC hardware, and how even old cards can still play the newer games, with some sacrifices.
I own a five year old PC myself. Top of the line back in 2011. Outdated now, especially with the CPU.
Yet I'm still able to play Forza Horizon 3. Has to be locked at 30 fps, and run with medium settings, but I can still play it.
I own a five year old PC myself. Top of the line back in 2011. Outdated now, especially with the CPU.
Yet I'm still able to play Forza Horizon 3. Has to be locked at 30 fps, and run with medium settings, but I can still play it.
MHWilliams
Member
My guess is they think you are LordKano. Between him and LordKasual there are too many lords on Gaming side.
Sir Abacus
Member
How come all these builds forget the Windows license? It's an absolutely necessity that's $90 on its own and takes a massive chunk out of a $400 PC's budget.
Windows 10 OEM's are $6 on ebay.
LordRaptor
Member
If someone is going to nurse perceived slights, it should behoove them to correctly remember the name of their object of villification
You can pick up a windows 10 key for $20.
Sir Abacus
Member
Yeah and they're grey market at best. Most of the time it's stolen property.
You buy a w7 license for 10-20 bucks. With that key get the W10 install disc download and then just enter the w7 key. Still works. Although the upgrade programm stopped, nut you'll have to install fresh anyways.
Not sure how it works in the US, but in EU OEM keys are legal to be sold. So you just buy the key (language of original version doesn't matter) and install via official download. Or buy it via EU sites. You could get it even cheaper via ebay, where used key sell for 3 or so - but you may get ripped off. 10-20 is from official sites.
And I guess we can assume that most people do have a W7 key somewhere, be it an old laptop or whatever, which can be used.
LordRaptor
Member
No, most of the time they are resold licences, which are generally considered legal under first sale doctrine, just not a thing companies that sell licences particularly appreciate.
Being able to jump in with like 10% of an install is a godsend. Last gen it didn't bother me that much. The user experience on the PS3 was one of the worst ever(on one of my favorite consoles ever), and installs made some games run so much better. This gen, the only really bad ones are the stupid online games that require a full insta to play, at least on PS4. I don't think any console will ever touch Steam though. Most full games download and fully install in less than 10 minutes for me.
Cramoss
Member
The power of the cloud tho
Disk drive? Seriously?
You can get a 1 tb hard drive for $20 if you don't have a hard drive already, and you really don't need a disk drive for a modern computer. If you want one, another $20 but that's w/e I certainly don't use mine.
I think that explains a lot,
I feel many on this forum haven't touched PC gaming since 2005 or so and still believe the same old rumours from back in the day when many of them were actually true.
icecold1983
Member
when ps4 launched you could not build a comparably powerful pc without spending more money. this isnt even debatable. the masher is built from used and already owned/gifted parts and is hardly a basis for any meaningful comparison
You didn't follow that line of conversation at all, did you?
I think comparing new builds vs new console is a much more productive premise than the bargain shopping and refurb hunting of the Potato Masher. I would be very surprised if the new PC priced @ new PS4 Pro prices didn't outperform it in most games. If nothing else, the user can change settings to tailor their experience. Before anyone says something, you can get a solid M+KB for like $15. Getting a copy of Windows is another story but I consider that a push personally with PS+.
Spyder_Monkey
Banned
Thank you for solving this mystery Sherlock.
Glad I could help!
You hope that some will come away more knowledgeable.
Don't even need to click the video to know it's extremely misleading if you just crunch the numbers, and I don't even know that much about building a PC (got my friends to do it for me 
)
~$50 each for: case, input devices, power supply, 1TB hdd, assembly (if we're going to comparable "out of the box" experience),. So $200 remaining to piece together a 4k CPU/GPU combo? Not happening. Oh right and 8GB of ram (easily over $50), duh.
What's important here is acknolwedging gaming PC's and consoles serves different ranges of intended users that may overlap; trying to compare apples to oranges doesn't work.
)~$50 each for: case, input devices, power supply, 1TB hdd, assembly (if we're going to comparable "out of the box" experience),. So $200 remaining to piece together a 4k CPU/GPU combo? Not happening. Oh right and 8GB of ram (easily over $50), duh.
What's important here is acknolwedging gaming PC's and consoles serves different ranges of intended users that may overlap; trying to compare apples to oranges doesn't work.
Only on gaf can you get shitted on for literally telling it like it is.
Saucycarpdog
Member
Your spouting exclusives in a tech comparison thread, and you say I'm the fanboy?
The projection is strong with this one.