Idk, in some shots the ps4 had more aliasing. I think what you're seeing might just be the heavier sharpening that the console versions use.
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Potato Masher (console-level used PC) vs PS4/PS4 Pro in Watch_Dogs 2
- Thread starter Sad Affleck
- Start date
Idk, in some shots the ps4 had more aliasing. I think what you're seeing might just be the heavier sharpening that the console versions use.
The new Kaby Lake Pentiums are a silent boon for PC gaming. You get 95% of the performance of the skylake i3-6100, for $60 less. And you are only around 10% less performance than i5, in games which dont rely heavily on 4 threads. Which is still a lot of games.
That Pentium kicks the crap outta the Jaguar.
And its all on a modern, relevant platform. Keeping Kaby Lake on the same socket as Skylake, has allowed prices to come down on mobos, as well. It was a pretty crafty move, by Intel.
Before, you had to go with an AMD from a years old mobo platform. Those CPUs are decent. And are totally fine to game on. But those mobos are dated on features and there is no upgrade path for the CPU. With a kaby lake Pentium, you have an upgrade path. Will it be cost effective 2 years from now? Will that dual core Pentium still be strangely usable in most games? Time will tell. But right now is a great time for PC hardware.
As has been shown, combining that value with an RX460, 470, or Gtx 1050ti, gives you a ton of performance, for console like money. With a 470 and a kaby lake Pentium, you will be kicking the pants off a PS4 pro. It's not necessary. There at a lot of games which do not require such performance. But those Pentiums and current videocards now allow it to be done at comparable price.
Great time for hardware and a great time for the first timer looking to buy into the open PC hardware platform and PC gaming. Or someone who doesn't have an upgrade path and would be better off with all new core parts.
That Pentium kicks the crap outta the Jaguar.
And its all on a modern, relevant platform. Keeping Kaby Lake on the same socket as Skylake, has allowed prices to come down on mobos, as well. It was a pretty crafty move, by Intel.
Before, you had to go with an AMD from a years old mobo platform. Those CPUs are decent. And are totally fine to game on. But those mobos are dated on features and there is no upgrade path for the CPU. With a kaby lake Pentium, you have an upgrade path. Will it be cost effective 2 years from now? Will that dual core Pentium still be strangely usable in most games? Time will tell. But right now is a great time for PC hardware.
As has been shown, combining that value with an RX460, 470, or Gtx 1050ti, gives you a ton of performance, for console like money. With a 470 and a kaby lake Pentium, you will be kicking the pants off a PS4 pro. It's not necessary. There at a lot of games which do not require such performance. But those Pentiums and current videocards now allow it to be done at comparable price.
Great time for hardware and a great time for the first timer looking to buy into the open PC hardware platform and PC gaming. Or someone who doesn't have an upgrade path and would be better off with all new core parts.
AcceptableGhost
Member
No offense dude but I am kind of surprised it runs at all (it is kind of cool it runs actually). Most likely your laptop has an integrated GPU, an entirely different tier of GPU at a completely different power consumption/performance/cost category. This is like buying a Nintendo Switch and complaining it can't play games as well as a PS4 Pro.
Truth is that you can take most any budget desktop PC of any type from the last several years and put a GTX 1050 Ti in it and get PS4+ amount of power.
No the argument is that pcs don't have to all be beasts. They give you freedom to pick and choose a machine that you're happy with.
Not everyone needs ultra everything settings and there are cheap options to still get good performance (as demonstrated by the masher).
Your argument not only doesn't work because you didn't mention specs, but you used a laptop as an example, when laptops have significantly less customisation options compared to a desktop counterpart, not to mention are naturally more expensive.
texhnolyze
Banned
So the potato masher gpu is now the gtx 760 instead of 750ti a couple of years ago.
If anything, this video shows that PS4 gpu can hold on its own for longer than a PC gpu.
Who knows what will they use in 2018 or 2019 when PS4 is still using the same gpu from 2013?
Console warriors shouldn't be defensive about this at all.
If anything, this video shows that PS4 gpu can hold on its own for longer than a PC gpu.
Who knows what will they use in 2018 or 2019 when PS4 is still using the same gpu from 2013?
Console warriors shouldn't be defensive about this at all.
While I agree that they shouldn't be defensive, the masher having a different or stronger card isn't really a negative because it means it's getting improved performance for the same price as the original masher.
Basically better parts are available for cheaper than ever, which is good for all gamers I feel.
Md Ray
Member
This is very true.
AbandonedTrolley
Member
That's good assuming he is updating the total build cost to the current price of a PS4 not the launch price. I've not seen the video and in work right now so cannot check this.
texhnolyze
Banned
Still, I wouldn't recommend anyone getting into PC gaming by getting a potato masher. These videos has proven that such PC can only last a couple of years or so, then you'll have to upgrade the gpu to be able to run games on the same fidelity as the PS4. Surely you can still run the game, but not better or comparable to PS4 version anymore, which is the point of these videos. With a PS4, you can buy it at launch and never have to worry about anything for the next 6 years or so.
I think a mid-end PC is the minimum for PC. It will last at least for a whole console generation.
I'm not sure that conclusion is true though? Ok his masher is improved but a comparison of the old one would be interesting.
But either way I don't think this video is a "why you should go pc". It's just to demonstrate that pc gaming doesn't have to be super expensive to get comparable performance to consoles.
It's essentially demonstrating that one of the most infamous "cons" of the platform isn't really applicable. And with a masher you can still run generations of games and discover genres that aren't really found on consoles.
The 750 ti was always weaker than the actual GPU in the PS4, though. It got carried in a lot of benchmarks by the CPU's in these builds at the time. They were illustrating that weaker GPU configurations could outperform PS4 in some situations. 7850/7870 was a more appropriate comparison.
Melchiah
Member
It might be possible in the US, but I find it hard to believe I could get a 250/400€ PC in Finland, that would be better than PS4/Pro.
It's also funny, that the last time I tried to play on my laptop, I had to spend more time on troubleshooting, than I've ever had to wait for installing, updating and loading on the PS4. I would have actually been playing the game on the console at that point. Not to mention, that none of those are an issue on the PS4, like they were on the PS3.
The budget PC players aren't playing games at checkerboard 4K either, and I suspect supersampling might be out of the question with 400€ PC as well.
capylikesgames
Banned
The Potato Masher always used a GTX 760.
It does now, though there was a point where my 760 outperformed the PS4. I'd like to say it falls more on Nvidia rather than the actual hardware, for neglecting their older cards after two years, in regards proper driver updates.
Sad Affleck
Member
It was the GTX760 right from the start, the gpu in the original potato masher hasn't been upgraded. This is a link to the original build video.
https://youtu.be/uZR-a35sxLg
Not at all true.
Spyder_Monkey
Banned
Hate to tell you this but the vast majority of computers have intergrated GPUs. Also even selling a computer with a 1050 Ti will still cost way more than a PS4.
It would suck having to choose between console and PC. There are too many exclusives on PS4 to completely ignore it. Same goes for PC. There's just too many perks to pass up. High framerate, high refresh rate monitors, better image quality, customisability etc. I feel for people who have to make a choice between platforms as it's a real head scratcher.
texhnolyze
Banned
There's such discussions in the previous page(s), that if you only have that much budget you can just build a PC instead of getting PS4. Which I don't believe is true at all.
I stand corrected then.
I guess what I had in mind wasn't the potato masher, but Digital Foundry's budget PC. In the early years of this generation of console, they made a lot of comparison videos demonstrating the performance of gtx 750ti vs consoles. It seems they haven't done that anymore these days.
Haha this is true, but no gaming pc uses the integrated graphics for gaming.
That's the whole point.
Intergrated graphics are fine for work stations, ultrabooks etc because their purpose is not gaming.
pretty done
Member
Wow so PS4 beats the masher? Not surprising considering how poorly this ran for me on a 290x. Not a good PC port at all.
Wonder how many times the PS4 won in these masher videos. Can't be many
Wonder how many times the PS4 won in these masher videos. Can't be many
Spyder_Monkey
Banned
So what is PC gaming? A bastion of freedom where "the vast majority of computers run the most popular titles" or still an expensive, exclusive club. Clearly not the former because as you said, the vast majority of PCs aren't built for gaming. Stuff like the potato masher isn't practical for anyone getting your own rig because it relies on building your own rig and having to scour for used and possibly unreliable parts all over the internet.
Sad Affleck
Member
No, the Masher and Masher Pro beat the PS4 and PS4 Pro respectively according to the video creator, although the differences are so marginal that it's a draw in the case of the Masher vs PS4 in my opinion. I agree that the port is bad, console-like settings and framerate are doable even on older hardware but 60 fps is a no-go. The potato masher has won almost all of these face-offs but there are some noteworthy exceptions.
Both. You decide on the type of experience you are going for and choose the PC accordingly. If you intend to play big multiplatform games you should plan ahead and buy a laptop with a gpu that is up to the task.
Sad Affleck
Member
Edit: please delete this, I posted twice in a row.
Huh? Your argument is asinine, really. First, if you are talking about "most popular titles", most modern PC's can play very popular games like LoL, Dota, CS and TF2 decently nowadays. Second, your options are a false dilemma. Either play the most popular titles or is an expensive, exclusive club? Notice that neither of the games listed can be played on a PS4.
Finally, why are you comparing your $400 laptop to a PS4? A portable, self contained unit not designed for gaming... Plus your cheapo laptop can actually play games on its own, while with the Ps4 needs you to buy a separate display, not to mention it will perform better in something like Excel or Photoshop than what the Ps4 will be ever hope for. As someone earlier ponted out, is like complaining about the performance of WD2 on the Switch...
This is hilarious.
No?
Yup, my brother still uses my old 8800gt + amd athlon 4200 and can play many of my more modern steam games fine on low, only time he's stuck is when you are forced to have DX11.
It seems pretty clear you're prone to hyperbole and shifting goal posts at this point.
You can be convinced of whatever wrong opinion you choose to hold, but there are literal YouTube channels dedicated to maximising performance on horribly outdated hardware.
It is the platform that grants you the most freedom because you get to choose how much or how little to invest. You choose what type of performance you're ok with,
And even with limited hardware there are workarounds.
Sad Affleck
Member
The least interesting discussion to be had regarding these videos is about which of the two machines had slightly better graphics or slightly better framerate or which one is a bit cheaper. Documenting the real-world performance of a budget gaming PC over the length of a console generation using a console as a frame of reference for baseline performance can be useful for so much more than meaningless platform war arguments. It is of use to both PC gamers (who can see if older hardware is still relevant and what to expect from a gpu upgrade) and console gamers (who might be interested in knowing that gaming on PC isn't prohibitively expensive and the hardware they buy won't be obsolete after a few years).
Mhm. I assisted a friend in a budget PC because he needed more VRAM and it was about $600 give or take and it's running games pretty well as they don't play graphic intense games and don't care about the visuals as much as frame and overall responsiveness without chilling out too much money within their budget.
Then you have people like me who own both the 1 and the 4 in addition to a 1080TI loaded PC as it is a hobby, and fairly cheap hobby compared to most.
To me the issue is once you get used to the perks of PC gaming, be it with a budget or high end PC, the freedom, options and selection in how to play and what to play is too good. Over the past 3 years I've helped people I know go from console to PC with budgets around the console price range and they're all happy because of the perks and none of them mind having to tweak some settings, if anything they seem surprised how much options you have not to mention modding which one of them is heavily into now.
Whatever fits you at the end of the day is the only thing that matters on an individual level, both the console and PC have strength and weaknesses attached you just have to find which one fit you the most. It's not about which is 'better'. It's about options.
In America, sure, but here in Germany the PC games section at many retail shops is larger than all of the console sections combined. People definitely buy retail PC games.
That's pretty great but seems to me like a US only thing.. It would be a bit more expensive over here (a 1050ti is in the 180,- range) and you are still missing a mouse and keyboard or a controller (yeah i know you can get a m+k for about 20 bucks but i doubt that the mouse would be nice to game with) and Windows is also still missing which would add alot for those who want to make sure they buy a legit key.
I have built multiple PCs for friends and i don't think i would ever suggest something like this to them. I have always told them to save up some more for a better CPU as that would benefit them in the long run but i know that isn't the point of this build.
lifeexpectancy
Member
Insecurity is very prevalent on both sides, that is very true. Some PC gamers are always on a mission to prove the irrelevance of consoles, whether it be price comparisons, ease/convenience comparisons, performance comparisons, etc. Some console gamers are always trying to disprove the validity of PC as a gaming platform because of price comparisons, exclusives comparisons, ease of use comparisons, etc.
They're all idiots. Both are perfectly valid platforms and have existed alongside each other for decades. Buy what you want. Play what you want. Stop worrying about whose toy is better for fuck's sake.
Technically, you don't really need a Windows key. It's not like the old WGA days
icecold1983
Member
his videos shouldnt be watched for anything other than entertainment value. his conclusions are often absurd and go against what the actual footage shows. how many times has he said "the potato masher has less aliasing and shimmer" when theres almost no anti aliasing at all in the masher footage. or claimed the masher runs at a solid 30 when the fps counter constantly drops and the awful frame pacing makes it look like its 15 fps. he also loves to claim that the ps4 is running almost every game without ambient occlusion.
stick to digital foundry if you want credible comparisons between console and pc
Never seen a quality thread like this made from a console perspective. Seems to me like insecurity is pretty one sided.
lifeexpectancy
Member
The insecurity is the very essence of why anyone feels a need to make comparison videos like this. Anyone with two brain cells to rub together knows that itnis pretty easy to build a cheap PC for at or near the price of consoles that can meet or beat consoles' performance. It is the need to disprove the relevance of consoles that shows insecurity.
Just like console players always claiming PC gaming costs thousands of dollars or touting console exclusives PC doesnt have are showing insecurity. And Xbox/PS4 console wars are insecurity. Or tribalism. Or both. Hell even your post reads as insecurity to me, to be honest.
As long as there is a market for consoles, they will exist. Same for PC. And honestly cell phone gaming may eventually make both of them irrelevant.
It's all just noise and it's ridiculous to me.
Melchiah
Member
Yep. That's how it usually seems to me.
grandwizard
Member
Wait so now correcting the bullshit thats always spread around in these discussions is a sign of insecurity? Go do a gaf search for 'to the metal' if you think these false assumptions aren't still believed and widespread.
lifeexpectancy
Member
Yup. It's insecurity. And console players touting "to the metal" are insecure too. And console manufacturers will say that shit to sell their product, shocking. The entire discussion about console vs pc or xbox vs ps4 is ridiculous. Honestly I dunno why I am in this thread...
:Homer fading into bushes.gif:
Not really what it's about here though.
Sad Affleck
Member
Thanks!
I think you're wrong about this. I read and participate in tech threads and sometimes I find it pretty shocking that the average GAF user understands little about the technology behind gaming. That's not out of the ordinary but it makes it very hard to determine who is trolling and who doesn't have the necessary knowledge.
I am convinced that a sizeable part of console GAF really does believe that you need to spend $1500 every couple of years to game on PC, or that consoles perform many times better than similar PC hardware. PC GAF shares some of the blame for the first issue because so much focus is placed on the GTX1080s and the Core i7s, on 4K and 144 fps. Videos like the Potato Masher ones are great because they prove you can have perfectly adequate and console-like performance for a really low price.
Caayn
Member
I'm interested in seeing just how a budget PC, like the potato masher (Pro), can hold its own against a console. I'm happy that Jerm goes through the trouble of buying the required hardware and creating these videos while at the same time I find it sad that these threads usually devolve into childish bickering and mud slinging by both sides of the conversation.
Yeah maybe but most people would probably want to have windows though. I just happen to notice that everytime someone posts a cheap PC build that there seem to be one or two things missing and i say that as someone who has built multiple gaming computers for friends and myself.
Leaving out stuff like the HDD, m+k, Windows OS and something that is admittedly optional like a Disc Drive but is something that alot of people would still want none the less.
Yup, so little of us actually own top end rigs. Most i know game on 1060's/480's or below. Heck I've been using the same CPU since 2012, yet according to many pc hardware lasts a couple of years max
Do people on Gaf not go out of their way to try and make PC gaming sound extremely affordable and more accessible when comparing to a system that just works.
These videos seems like PC
recruitment videos. They start with statements about not knocking consoles, but it is. Why compare used PC parts and not compare them to used consoles?
Both?
And just to be clear. The most popular titles on PC are not console AAA games. Most popular PC games run on any toaster.
It's more like trying to stamp out the absurd notion that still exists around here with some users that PC gaming cannot be affordable and that it's not accessible.
No one said it's more accessible than Consoles, but it's certainly not difficult like some like to try and make out.
Which is why I went from PS3 to PC.
I wanted to effectively 'build my own console' and that's what I've got now. I use Windows 10 with the full-screen start menu to give me a console-like (but note lite) UI, a steam controller to navigate, UWP apps for things like netflix, and big picture mode on steam. It's all hooked up to my TV and its super easy. It's not as easy as a PS4 but much easier to use than an old VHS
And the library of games is insane.
A lot of remarks coming from the PC side are in response to idiot console fans but they're still there. There are always a few that jump on to let the uninformed know just how much better at everything PC is, which still shits up the threads and isn't much better than the other.
The platform warrioring makes almost any thread discussing PC and consoles worthless, outside of maybe DF comparisons. Hell, there seems to be less animosity between Sony and MS fans these days than PC vs console. You're entitled to your opinion, as am I, and I'm not willing to go back and forth on this topic. I will just say that I've only been back actively using gaming GAF for a week or so and these type of threads are why so many stay away from general gaming boards.
The problem is the answer falls somewhere in the middle. Is PC gaming more affordable than the high end super computers? Yes of course.
Do consoles on average appear to be cheaper with less work needed to make the prices comparable? No doubt about it.
A $375 PC that I can't find the parts at that price for now to a system that has been as low as 239.99 seems fairly off.