Recruitment videos????? Absolutely nuts.
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Potato Masher (console-level used PC) vs PS4/PS4 Pro in Watch_Dogs 2
- Thread starter Sad Affleck
- Start date
You are taking the word recruitment way deeper than it is obviously meant, but that is ok.
I am simply saying it goes out of its way to prop up PC gaming.
Does that read better for you?
texhnolyze
Banned
And what's wrong if it is. It's not like there aren't console recruitment videos out there.
Heck, you can even find them on TV as advertisement. Is there even PC ads on TV?
Do you feel uncomfortable that such video exist?
It's better to just ignore that type of willful ignorance to start with. The ones spouting that will likely never be interested in anything but certain brands anyway so it's better to just not get in a back and forth with them.
My 2600k(from 2011) started dying last year and I replaced it with a 6800k. I had to replace my GTX580 with a 780Ti when it shit the bed in 2014 and it still runs most games at 70+ on my 1440p monitor. Couple years max my ass. One of my friends just upgraded his GTX480 only because of Nvidia's bs planned obsolescence so he literally had to manually find drivers to be able to play some games.
I think that ignorant perception comes from the small community of PC warriors that act like any rig below the top of the line is worthless, but those guys also shit on people with lesser PCs(and there's very little of that on GAF to start).
It's about time for me to done with this thread. I still disagree with the premise of the videos.
Considering console makers spend millions of dollars making videos to prop up console gaming (and surely fans make many videos as well), why is this a problem? You can easily go out there and find way stupider videos on either side of the fence, at least these videos are informative.
No actually it's fine not once in my post did I say the videos shouldn't exist or bother me. Nice try though I simply posted a response to the video that doesn't sing the idea or videos praises.
I am glad multiple forms of gaming exist, justsee this type of stuff on GAF and it makes me laugh. (Same as the PC gaming cost $1500 to start post would.)
Lucky man.
Realistically you can make a really quite decent PC for $500. In fact a couple of years ago I made one which (based on current information) still beats the Scorpio for £450 (and that's in the UK where parts are expensive!).
That's the middle ground. You cannot realistically build a PC that is better than a PS4 for the same cost, but you can get a PC that will beat it for years to come for only $100-150 extra.
That's the middle ground. You cannot realistically build a PC that is better than a PS4 for the same cost, but you can get a PC that will beat it for years to come for only $100-150 extra.
That's a keeper for the lulz. We literally have not seen what the Scorpio can do.
Just adding some numbers of the parts you do understand doesn't account for the actual performance of a complete console system. If it did, games like Horizon Zero Dawn or Uncharted 4 couldn't exist.
This post makes no sense, and I'll tell you why. Firstly, it's 1080P temporal reconstruction (specifically CBR) not filtering, those are two different things. But more importantly you say that if it wasn't using checkerboarding it would drop performance by 60-66% or so which is wrong because the performance advantage is more in line with a 25-30% boost (based on examples of performance in PC games that allow you to use reconstruction). Considering Watch Dogs 1 was straight up 900P on PS4 I am sure the same can be achieved without any reconstruction for Watch Dogs 2 and the performance difference between 900P and 1080P are more in line to the performance difference between 1080P CBR and 1080P.
Secondly, the post you were replying to was talking about CPU as in how a tablet CPU can handle 30FPS fine when the PC with an i5 has issues. To which you reply that it's because they use a lower resolution. This is wrong as well because if the game is CPU bound then reducing the resolution won't really bump up the framerate as that is related to the GPU. My point being the entire reason it is doing checkerboard 1080P is because it's GPU bound, it doing checkerboarding has little to do with the fact that the Jaguar CPUs are weak thereby affirming the original post that you replied to that somehow the tablet CPUs are able to donor by an i5 is having issues.
No, he goes out of his way educate people on the matter that PC gaming on a budget is a viable option.
Via Purifico
Banned
What's the point of doing a comparison with consoles then? Might as well just show the 400 dollar pc performnce instead of doing a clickbait comparison video.
Mihos
Gold Member
I
Every single ad, E3, gdc, etc could be concidered a recruitment video by your definition. PC gaming hardly needs to be 'propped up'.
The 1 is the parts price not it's value. The potato masher is about a 350$ value of PC parts.
Sad Affleck
Member
That's what they did.
No, the €1 was for the sarcasm, the PC parts were free
ly imagined.
I can buy a used PS4 for €110. It includes a controller that costs at least €30 used. Now come again with that €80 PC?
Not that I would ever buy a used PC or console...
Oh hello there defensive, nice to meet you
I'm actually understating here. Let me make it clearer. For £450 ($550) I was able to make a system easily more powerful than the Scorpio could possibly be based on known specs, and at a small form factor too. Not to say there won't be some games like HZD which will be able to look incredible, but 99% of games will look better on the system I have than on a Scorpio.
Because I paid extra.
If you want value for money get a console, because Pc doesn't give that. And there's a couple of exclusive games that look as good as anything on pc.
If you want something more powerful, or future proofed, then consoles don't offer that. But the cost is...the cost.
It's sad to see that GAF still isn't mature enough to handle simple tech price comparisons and looks without going for full bingo with missing the entire point and calling it recruitment videos but then again the majority here are console users so there's bound to be more brandboys around and about.
On a more positive note, thanks OP, love these kind of things.
On a more positive note, thanks OP, love these kind of things.
Sad Affleck
Member
The console is used as a frame of reference for image quality and performance. It's how they can determine if the PC is losing ground as the years go by.
Too many fanboys for this :-D
Sad Affleck
Member
I don't agree. I believe a PC can offer very close, equal or better value for money in terms of performance per dollar.
If I am "defensive", and you oppose me, then: hello there, offensive!Oh hello there defensive, nice to meet you
Certainly I am not defending the Scorpio as a worthwhile purchase. It is interesting to me merely as a technical design study, what console hardware in 2017 can do for the buck. Will be interesting to see it in real time, in the future! It doesn't seem to have a large target audience, though. Can't see it catching anyone not yet invested in the Xbox One ecosystem, and the people who want the best graphics will still only find their home with a PC. The PS4 Pro is rather niche, but Scorpio will be significantly smaller.
That said, those comparisons as in the OP are hand-picked, meaningless and mainly serve to make the master race on a budget feel good.
Sad Affleck
Member
Can you explain why you feel that way? Why is the comparison meaningless and hand-picked?
Also more factors in here, paid online, free online, game prices and so on.
Not as simple as parts as a one time fee but money over time.
Fair comment.If I am "defensive", and you oppose me, then: hello there, offensive!
Certainly I am not defending the Scorpio as a worthwhile purchase. It is interesting to me merely as a technical design study, what console hardware in 2017 can do for the buck. It doesn't seem to have a large target audience, though. Can't see it catching anyone not yet invested in the Xbox One ecosystem, and the people who want the best graphics will still only find their home with a PC. The PS4 Pro is rather niche, but Scorpio will be significantly smaller.
That said, those comparisons as in the OP are hand-picked, meaningless and mainly serve to make the master race on a budget feel good.
Especially with PC the problem is, yes you have all this power but what are you actually doing with it? More pixels? Faster pixels? So what?
For me PC is about the library of games and that's why for me it has good value for money. But for discussions like thi it's easy to get caught up with numbers and lose the meaning.
Using the console as reference for image quality makes alot of sense to me but what makes alot less sense is where the $400 price point comes from(disregarding the fact that those $400 are spent on used parts) as both the ps4 and xbox one Haven't cost anything near that for a long time. You can get a new ps4 for about $200 and it will include a controller.
pinballsummer
Member
This has to be the most over-slagged game in recent memory. I don't get it. Unless open world city sandbox games have no appeal to you, I don't understand the negative response to this game. It's fun as hell!
I can run 1440p/55fps on my 1070 with minimal settings lowered, so not sure how you're getting such low performance - but I've also played with a friend on her Xbox One with much lower performance.... still looked and played great.
Put down Zelda last night to finally check out the WD2 DLC and shit runs and looks like a fucking dream compared to that (which I also have zero complaints with). Just surprised at the overwhelming lukewarm to negative response this game gets and think the performance issues are being blown way out of proportion.
Sad Affleck
Member
The $350 price point was set in 2014 as the then average price of a used ps4 in good condition. It's not a new build.
LittleBigGamer
Banned
I think used ps4s could be had for less in 2014 but that is besides the point.
I think the fact that it is an old build that uses old console prices works in it's advantage.
A new potato masher that has to compete against the price of a used ps4 today ($150?) would be worse off. At least i think.
Then why do they put a label "console killer" on those videos? Even if it was meant as a gag, the console gamers were not the ones to put it in a confrontational context.
I have to take back the hand-picked part. There are much more comparisons than I thought there would be.
Meaningless is still valid because the scenario is so constructed. It doesn't apply to real life choices of most gamers. Like I said above, you can get a used PS4 extremely cheap if that is the only parameter. The "equal price" only was achieved by putting used parts (yuck!) against a new device which naturally costs more than later in its life span.
And there are so many more parameters that factor into the enjoyment of games, like friends to play with, previous investments, options like PSVR, price and availability of games and much more. Its not like a lot of potential future gamers exist in a vacuum with no preferences whatsoever and have to decide wether to go with PS4 or PC.
Gaming on an older / cheaper PC is a valid option, sure. But can it exist without constantly emphasing how stupid those console sheeple are? Each has its own pros and cons.
MikeBison
Member
I own pretty much every console from the 2600 onwards, I just love them. Even the ones that are kind of duds. It's just exciting seeing a new box come out, with new marketing, new adverts, sticking it under the tv and playing new exclusives. Consoles will have a place for quite some time going forward.
But i've always toyed with building a mid-high end PC. A friend at work has just done the same after always being console and is really enjoying it. For me right now, I have plenty of lengthy exclusives and multiplayer games to be playing, persona 5, mario kart 8, some PSVR stuff. Along with that my friends are on console and I have a regular group to play overwatch and shoot the shit with every night, being on a console makes that super easy for me.
It's going to happen eventually though, and when I do, I'm super glad builds like this are out there. It's a really cool study in what you can do for cheap. Ultimately I fall down on the side of thinking you may as well build mid-high end with PC as opposed to something in the console price range, but it's great for those that want to.
All platforms have their merits, people don't need to talk like it's a black and white, 1 correct answer deal.
But i've always toyed with building a mid-high end PC. A friend at work has just done the same after always being console and is really enjoying it. For me right now, I have plenty of lengthy exclusives and multiplayer games to be playing, persona 5, mario kart 8, some PSVR stuff. Along with that my friends are on console and I have a regular group to play overwatch and shoot the shit with every night, being on a console makes that super easy for me.
It's going to happen eventually though, and when I do, I'm super glad builds like this are out there. It's a really cool study in what you can do for cheap. Ultimately I fall down on the side of thinking you may as well build mid-high end with PC as opposed to something in the console price range, but it's great for those that want to.
All platforms have their merits, people don't need to talk like it's a black and white, 1 correct answer deal.
Sad Affleck
Member
Well the point of the project was to investigate how well an old pc could keep up with a console as the years went by so building something similar today wouldn't provide any new info. It would be fun to try and match the PS4 for $150 though, it might actually be doable in the used market.
Sad Affleck
Member
When the project began in 2014 the target price of $350 was the estimated price of a used ps4 in good condition. It's not used against new.
Very true and it applies to all platforms.
Literally noone said that people who buy consoles are sheeple. The fact that an old PC keeps up with a console doesn't make a console a bad choice. Just a different one.
Edit: shut, consecutive posts again. Sorry mods, I'll be more careful.
Isn't the fact that you can buy a PS4 for much cheaper right now and that the masher cost more now than it did them make it odd to bring up in 2017?
Was not also the point to show that you could by a PC that matches console performance for the same price as a console? I don't think that's the case anymore. At least not without leaving out stuff like Windows OS and m+k.
Would be fun to see someone try to build a pc that matches console performance from used parts with only $150 to spend though(without purposefuly? forgetting parts) .
Sad Affleck
Member
I would love to see that as well. Who knows, it might be doable. What's the best place to shop for used parts and PCs in the US?
... new games are released and it's nice to see how a older weaker PC still holds up today? Are you like missing the whole point of this to begin with. Do you expect the dude to invest in a completely new build every single year? That literally goes against the damn point
Also, the only reason the masher "costs more" now is because many of those components are no longer being actively produced. You could get a PC better than the Masher right now for less the price.
The PS4 was still rather new as a system, thus the used price was really close to the MSRP.
You don't seem to have visited many of the places I have on the internet. XD
I don't know, in the Netherlands it's best to go to the Tweakers website for used parts. But i'm pretty sure that it's an impossible task over here to buy a pc with console performance for only 150.
Darkroronoa
Member
Looks like people will do anything to downplay the existense of budget PC gaming. Its sad really.
People really dont get what the video wants to show.
There was the times when buying a budget gpu would let you play games for only a few years before you really had to upgrade. Buying a GeForce 6600GT (or even a 6800 ultra) or a ATI1950, top end gpu's by the time xbox 360 arrived, would only get you so far. Not to mention how much more expensive a PC back then was.
Now the guy in the video does the one thing many of us want to see, he puts to the test a similarly priced PC (used) versus a PS4 and compares performance as the years pass. He does something that Digital Foundry stopped doing with their budget build on their face offs.
If i remember correcly the build was even cheaper, but he upgraded the RAM by 4GB and added the cost (atm of the upgrade price, not old) to the build. Its a pretty cool project.
The results are pretty amazing, back then it was the norm that "the console will outperform the PC", its not anymore. This budget PC is keeping toe to toe with the PS4.
Budget PC gaming is a pretty good choice, maybe not the best considering with a few more $$$ you can get more performance, but now you can do it with very good performance.
Also people (ignoring the point of the video) compare the initial cost ingnoring completely the extra costs that come with the console, and then they ask about fair comparison.
I would say that they dont want a fair comparison. Although asking about gamepad or mouse/kb is a valid point, they are essential to gaming.
I remember having a convo with a guy that claimed that you need 800$ for a comparable PC, he even "forced" me to include an audio card to the build. Its a miracle we did not see this here. We did see though the "you need a disk drive", no you really dont. Even retail games comes with steam codes these days. Some retail games dont even have a disk i think. And yes i live in europe.
I dont get why people react like this on thread like this. Its good to offer critisism but first you need to understand what you see in the video.
People really dont get what the video wants to show.
There was the times when buying a budget gpu would let you play games for only a few years before you really had to upgrade. Buying a GeForce 6600GT (or even a 6800 ultra) or a ATI1950, top end gpu's by the time xbox 360 arrived, would only get you so far. Not to mention how much more expensive a PC back then was.
Now the guy in the video does the one thing many of us want to see, he puts to the test a similarly priced PC (used) versus a PS4 and compares performance as the years pass. He does something that Digital Foundry stopped doing with their budget build on their face offs.
If i remember correcly the build was even cheaper, but he upgraded the RAM by 4GB and added the cost (atm of the upgrade price, not old) to the build. Its a pretty cool project.
The results are pretty amazing, back then it was the norm that "the console will outperform the PC", its not anymore. This budget PC is keeping toe to toe with the PS4.
Budget PC gaming is a pretty good choice, maybe not the best considering with a few more $$$ you can get more performance, but now you can do it with very good performance.
Also people (ignoring the point of the video) compare the initial cost ingnoring completely the extra costs that come with the console, and then they ask about fair comparison.
I would say that they dont want a fair comparison. Although asking about gamepad or mouse/kb is a valid point, they are essential to gaming.
I remember having a convo with a guy that claimed that you need 800$ for a comparable PC, he even "forced" me to include an audio card to the build. Its a miracle we did not see this here. We did see though the "you need a disk drive", no you really dont. Even retail games comes with steam codes these days. Some retail games dont even have a disk i think. And yes i live in europe.
I dont get why people react like this on thread like this. Its good to offer critisism but first you need to understand what you see in the video.
Sad Affleck
Member
Understandably so.
I feel like both sides have trouble being honest with themselves and the other side. It really goes both ways.
I know alot of console gamers keep their costs down by only buying ps+ during sales and by buying games used or by selling their games once they are done with them.
Both sides have alot of ways to keep their costs down or can easily have their prices skyrocket if they want to.
I know alot of console gamers keep their costs down by only buying ps+ during sales and by buying games used or by selling their games once they are done with them.
Both sides have alot of ways to keep their costs down or can easily have their prices skyrocket if they want to.
No I am not missing the point at all. I'm just stating from a price stand point (which is the whole point of the video) it misses the mark for someone like me who isn't a PC gamer beyond playing Civ.
Lighten up buddy not being negative against PC just willing to have an opposing position.
Brohan You are correct both sides have benefits and find ways to cut the cost. Great view point.
Ivan
Member
Well said, I agree 100%.
LordRaptor
Member
and there it is.