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[ReplacementPelican]

They need to make quality over quantity, I am not advocating no more superhero movies, just that they reign them in in a bit and ensure the source material is handled with respect and that the resulting production is taken seriously. Also genre fatigue is a very real thing and we are seeing it in effect.

Instead the studio just start seeing dollar signs and approve cheap cash grabs rather than quality products.

Are we seeing it in effect? How? What we're seeing is a rise of people who are savvy about the superhero films which they go to see. Batman vs Superman aside, bad reviews have made old franchises bomb and new franchises exceed all expectations. It isn't anything to do with quantity, just quality. Yes, this year has been disappointing with BVS and now Apocalypse but Civil War and - although I believe it is over-hyped - Deadpool have been phenomenal movies and one has already exceeded all predictions and the other will settle with a nice total.

I don't think that the bad movies this year have had anything to do with studios and 'dollar signs' or 'cash grabs. One movie was written by an academy award winner, has a stellar cast and Snyder put a lot into it. Apocalypse continues with the same production team as a much loved Days of Future Past. Those two movies are not cash grabs. I really think that Fantastic Four's failures are not indicative at all of what you've said and, if anything, studios are putting a lot more thought and care into how they approach world-building and the quality of the movies. Sure, BVS failed at that but Warner Brothers does give a shit about the universe and the movies being good, as do all those involved.

Also, given the most widely-reported issues about Fantastic 4 were about the director, it's incredibly unfair to blame the studio.

 

[Nokagi]

Just let it go. Let it die. It's okay.

 

[darkhunger]

Also, given the most widely-reported issues about Fantastic 4 were about the director, it's incredibly unfair to blame the studio.

Uh, that's not true at all. There was plenty of reporting done about how "other" sides screwed up. Such as how Fox dropped the budget significantly right before production, and their crappy and amateurish attempts to reshoot the movie without Trank's involvement.

Also the actors just came out and dissed the screenplay recently, and that was written by both Trank and Simon Kinberg

 

[Blader]

lol "genre fatigue." This talking point is pretty tired anyway, but is especially ridiculous given the successes of Deadpool ($700m worldwide) and Civil War ($700m worldwide, in two weeks!) this year. Yeah, people are real sick of superhero shit.

 

[JigglesBunny]

Last I heard they were targeting an "Avengers tone", quips and all and everyone seemed game to return but Miles and Kate who were really apprehensive and eager to leave it in the past.

I guess we'll see how this pans out, but my buddy no longer works in a position that he knows anything about FOX Marvel anymore so I'm as dark as ya'll are on the subject.

Personally, I think they should trash it. The cast in these roles and the brand are tarnished in the eyes of the public, so it'd bomb regardless.

 

[Empyrean Heaven]

Hey Fox, Disney is on the phone.

 

[George Oscar Bluth II]

I presume this is all talk to try and improve their position when Marvel come for the rights.

That is possible. Talk up doing a big budget sequel so you can get Marvel to pay a high price for the rights because of "all the inconveniences". Ya never know.

 

[Matt_C]

Do you think Fox may pull a Sony if Spider-Man: Homecoming breaks all kinds of records? Outsource the production to Feige and company while retaining the rights in solo movies.

 

[Pai Pai Master]

lol "genre fatigue." This talking point is pretty tired anyway, but is especially ridiculous given the successes of Deadpool $700m worldwide) and Civil War ($700m worldwide, in two weeks!) this year. Yeah, people are real sick of superhero shit.

Some people made the excuse for BvS too

The only fatigue we're seeing involves shitty movies that don't respect the source material they're adapting

 

[DragonSworne]

Tom Cruise needs to play Dr Doom

 

[btrboyev]

Or just give the rights back to Marvel and let them decide what they wanna do. It's my opinion that there is no audience for the Fantastic Four. They are the one series I think that just needs to go away. Dr. Doom is the only thing they need from it.

 

[Blues1990]

I just want Ben Grimm to be done right in a feature film, as he's always been my favourite member of the group. They can do a lot to make him interesting as his comic book counterpart, as the guy is a Jewish born, Yancy Street grown brawler that is otherwise kind-hearted & well-liked, despite his rocky exterior. And despite his tough and gruff personality, he has (although seldom) shown to lightly tear up during extremely touching moments, proving he does have a sensitive side beneath his hard disposition.

 

[Experien]

Seriously, why do you want to hold on to any ties to that abortion of a movie? Some kind of morbid experiment to see if a movie can actually gross negative amounts of money? At least WB has the excuse that they didn't expect BvS to perform that badly and shit was too far along to stop Wonder Woman and Justice League from being made.

P.S.: Give the rights back to Marvel.

FOX doesn't own the rights to Fantastic Four. They are buddies/publishers for the little company who does.

 

[George Oscar Bluth II]

Do you think Fox may pull a Sony if Spider-Man: Homecoming breaks all kinds of records? Outsource the production to Feige and company while retaining the rights in solo movies.

Tough to tell. With this statement they could be:

- Actually considering a sequel because they are dumb
- Doing damage control with empty words
- Posturing to get Marvel to shell out for the rights

I don't think they're in a Sony situation because that was pretty fucking dire and nowhere near comparable. Fox is pretty financially stable compared to them and the X-Men brand does well. If they really want to retain the rights, it is possible they broker a Marvel production Fox distribution deal but that's only if they have a really good working relationship.

FOX doesn't own the rights to Fantastic Four. They are buddies/publishers for the little company who does.

Oh yeah, there's this. I think what I said could maybe still apply.

 

[darkhunger]

That is possible. Talk up doing a big budget sequel so you can get Marvel to pay a high price for the rights because of "all the inconveniences". Ya never know.

I don't doubt Fox/Kinberg is serious planning the sequel. But they were planning the Daredevil reboot forever too. Doesn't mean it actually happens.

Do you think Fox may pull a Sony if Spider-Man: Homecoming breaks all kinds of records? Outsource the production to Feige and company while retaining the rights in solo movies.

A lot of factors probably need to fall into place, not just Fox agreeing to talk... Disney is basically doing Sony a favor in that deal, in exchange for profiting heavily off the Spidey merchandising rights (which they own 100% of, but last we heard Fox isn't willing to give that up for their characters), and maybe some minor bump in sales for Civil War. And Spidey makes far, far more in merchandising than the F4 do, so would Disney even bother to do something similar for Fox even if Fox gives up their slice of merchandising?

 

[DragonSworne]

I want a movie where Thing doesn't hate himself.

 

[Colonel Nasty]

They need to pull a SpiderMan. Lone the rights back to Marvel, put the four in a guest appearance in GOTG3 and ride that wave into a solo movie.

 

[Pai Pai Master]

Constantin could have a contract with Fox that has them permanently producing FF films for all we know

 

[……forgetit]

Even if the producer wants it, considering how the cast felt about the production I doubt Miles Teller and Michael B Jordan would want to come back.

 

[Anth0ny]

lol 0% chance of that happening

I'm sure there have been talks with Marvel behind the scenes about selling the rights, or at least a Spidey-esque sharing deal.

 

[Phamit]

Give the rights back to Marvel, so they can make a Illuminati Movie

 

[George Oscar Bluth II]

I don't doubt Fox/Kinberg is serious planning the sequel. But they were planning the Daredevil reboot forever too. Doesn't mean it actually happens.

True. What's funny is that Fox screwed themselves over at the last minute with Daredevil.

 

[Ragnarsson]

This sounds mostly like PR talk. I don't believe for a second they would try to keep the same cast, last year's Fantastic Four had an awful reception (rightly so, as it was a trainwreck of a movie) and almost no one is willing to watch what would be deemed as "more of the same". That said, Fox has made three garbage movies out of this franchise, they clearly don't understand what made it work in the first place. I'd rather have them reach an agreement of sorts with Disney, similar to what Sony did. I can see them trying to reboot it again in a few years, though.

 

[AnotherDayAnotherDollar]

At a certain point Disney gotta take them to court for tarnishing the brand to this extent.

If a sequel/reboot fails yet again, then the rights should automatically revert back to Marvel. These constant failures are just ridiculous now.

I presume this is all talk to try and improve their position when Marvel come for the rights.

These are historical facts that we know from Marvel's other contracts written around the same era:

- They apparently have a "pause" clause where they can pause 3rd party studios from making movies based on their properties. Presumably the clock for the rights to revert pauses and resumes when the ban is lifted. - This is as per the leaked Sony emails, it's explicitly stated in one of the leaked documents
- Marvel - more specifically Perlmutter - has written an email expressing deep concern about Amazing Spiderman 2 to Sony and that they would like to talk about it (don't remember the exact words used). They didn't sue, but they made it seem that they could take Sony to court due to the low quality of the movie and low BO take
- Marvel actually has an out clause from the most iron clad contract they signed, the theme park rights with Universal. It pretty much states if the marvel universe is not operated and maintained to the highest standards for theme park rides, then Marvel can gtfo (very subjective wording used)

Marvel didn't really exercise their rights or discontent on any movies prior to the Disney acquisition. This is the first F4 movie since then and it was a piece of shit. It is hard to argue that Fox has not done major damage to the brand. here is a very good chance Marvel has already sent a letter of discontent to Fox. They also have a good, objective way of measuring quality for movies (i.e. RT scores for MCU movies should be the baseline). Anything below 60% is well below their minimum requirements (and 9% is just, well, horrible). BO takes would have to be seen and estimated based on franchise as they are all different, but I can't imagine Marvel not estimating FF being at least at Ant-Man's level of success.

Marvel definitely doesn't want to take them to court, but they have a good case if they choose to do so IMO.

 

[darkhunger]

Marvel didn't really exercise their rights or discontent on any movies prior to the Disney acquisition. This is the first F4 movie since then and it was a piece of shit. It is hard to argue that Fox has not done major damage to the brand. here is a very good chance Marvel has already sent a letter of discontent to Fox. They also have a good, objective way of measuring quality for movies (i.e. RT scores for MCU movies should be the baseline). Anything below 60% is well below their minimum requirements (and 9% is just, well, horrible). BO takes would have to be seen and estimated based on franchise as they are all different, but I can't imagine Marvel not estimating FF being at least at Ant-Man's level of success.

I don't think that's necessarily true. Marvel has legally always had creative input in their movies, such as ensuring that their characters don't deviate too much from the comics (ie Fox needed permission from Marvel to change up Negasonic Teenage Warhead), and they are listed as producers on all the films. I think a lot of things just don't get reported or leaked to the press.

In fact, the first couple of X-Men and Spider-Man had heavy creative involvement from Kevin Feige. At some point the studios started relying on them less, but that was also when quality started to slip.

 

[super-heated plasma]

Finally saw it on Netflix. The body horror stuff was the only interesting thing about it. The movie was absolute shit. That had to be the worst version of Doctor Doom ever interpreted. Just horrible. You know you screwed a character up when you make the doom in the previous f4 movies look respectable by comparison. Ugh.

 

[DeathyBoy]

It's just really bad movie fatigue.

BvS and Thor 2 are miles beyond the worst we were getting (Elektra, Catwoman) in the 00s. I dislike Thor 2 and even I'd admit it's a masterpiece compared to those fucking films.

When the worst modern film you can think of has an opening as great as BvS did, you really need to watch Catwoman. I mean that film has the worst editing on any blockbuster down cold.

 

[Toa TAK]

Honestly, if this were to go back to Marvel I'd be pretty psyched for the Reed and Doom relationship. It's top tier stuff and we should get a Secret Wars movie out if that.

BvS and Thor: The Dark World are miles beyond the worst we were getting (Elektra, Catwoman) in the 00s. I dislike Thor: The Dark World and even I'd admit it's a masterpiece compared to those fucking films.

Fixed that for you, pal.

 

[Caj814]

Just give it to Marvel already ffs...

 

[Bobby Roberts]

They also have a good, objective way of measuring quality for movies (i.e. RT scores for MCU movies should be the baseline). Anything below 60% is well below their minimum requirements (and 9% is just, well, horrible). BO takes would have to be seen and estimated based on franchise as they are all different, but I can't imagine Marvel not estimating FF being at least at Ant-Man's level of success.

Marvel definitely doesn't want to take them to court, but they have a good case if they choose to do so IMO.

I have a hard time seeing the film industry essentially adopting the games industry's fucked methodology of basing success on aggregate review scores.

It doesn't work there at all. I don't see why it would work here.

There's no reason to elevate rotten tomatoes rankings to that level of importance in the industry's business practices.

Box Office would do just fine.

I also wonder if his signaling a desire to keep FF going is a hint towards using DOOM in Old Man Logan.

 

[Garlador]

"...the world voted, and I think they probably voted correctly."

That vote was "give the rights back to Marvel."

This wasn't their first strike... this was the THIRD Fantastic Four movie they made, and FOX clearly has no idea what to do with the franchise. I have absolutely zero faith in them whatsoever to do this property justice and I absolutely have no interest in seeing any Fantastic Four movie made by Fox in the future.

So cut your damn losses, sell the rights back to Marvel, and made some money off the Fantastic Four by doing so for the first time in over a decade.

How do you make THREE Fantastic Four movies where Doctor Doom isn't the ruler of Latveria? Meanwhile, Civil War shows Black Panther ruling Wakanda in his opening debut film.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

You guys really do think this shit is fantasy football, huh.

 

[Toa TAK]

You guys really do think this shit is fantasy football, huh.

Where have you been?

 

[link1201]

I'd like to think I'll see a good FF movie in my lifetime but it's not looking good atm.

 

[inky]

Same cast, huh?

I mean, I got nothing against the actors, they are all good, but this shit is done brosky. Time to start over. Find someone who has a passion for the project and the understanding of the characters you lack, not someone who wants to use the property as a vehicle to do their own whole different thing.

 

[Scientist Supreme!]

Someone stop this man.

 

[Slayven]

Where have you been?

Counting his Shill dollars, and getting fitted for his platinum mouse ears

 

[Apt101]

I mean really they had this great cast, but for about half the movie it was a decent but listless sci-fi and not at all a Fantastic 4 movie. Or even a comic hero movie. They were just people in an OK sci-fi thriller. Then it suddenly got weird, with Kate Mara in a wig and like just the dumbest shit in a comic movie in over a decade. By the time it concluded I was wondering what the fuck could have possibly happened to make it turn into that.

Let it go and move on.

 

[George Oscar Bluth II]

You guys really do think this shit is fantasy football, huh.

Mmmmaybe

 

[Sirpopopop]

Constantin owns the rights, not Fox, right?

 

[Bizazedo]

I just don't trust Simon Kinberg's interpretations of the Marvel characters.

 

[Rygar 8 Bit]

give it back to marvel please we need doom and galactus in the mcu

 

[Extra Sauce]

The only good movie Simon Kinberg wrote was co-written with other people.

Go away, Simon.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Here's an idea:

This Fantastic Four rips another hole into another dimension, finds a better Fantastic Four. They fight. The better Fantastic Four triumphs. Seals the old Four away in their old universe. New Fanstastic Four continues on.

Same cast. Different setting, different dynamics, different tone.

If Fox wants they can probably start sprinkling Four characters/villains into their X-Men movies and keep it alive that way.

Like they might do with Doom for Old Man Logan.

 

[darkhunger]

Constantin owns the rights, not Fox, right?

We know they used to and they are still credited. But that could mean they have a coproduction deal with Fox as well. I'm not sure anyone actually confirmed that they have the rights? Maybe I'm wrong.

 

[AnotherDayAnotherDollar]

I don't think that's necessarily true. Marvel has legally always had creative input in their movies, such as ensuring that their characters don't deviate too much from the comics (ie Fox needed permission from Marvel to change up Negasonic Teenage Warhead), and they are listed as producers on all the films. I think a lot of things just don't get reported or leaked to the press.

In fact, the first couple of X-Men and Spider-Man had heavy creative involvement from Kevin Feige. At some point the studios started relying on them less, but that was also when quality started to slip.

I meant as in exercising their right to possibly sue and get out of the contract if the quality of the product is poor.

I have a hard time seeing the film industry essentially adopting the games industry's fucked methodology of basing success on aggregate review scores.

It doesn't work there at all. I don't see why it would work here.

There's no reason to elevate rotten tomatoes rankings to that level of importance in the industry's business practices.

Box Office would do just fine.

I also wonder if his signaling a desire to keep FF going is a hint towards using DOOM in Old Man Logan.

The wording used in the publicly available contract with Universal is very ambiguous and open to interpretation. Marvel must want a critical and commercial threshold for their movies. I used RT as an i.e. of an objective critical mark.

Constantin owns the rights, not Fox, right?

I have a hard time believing that is still the case. Disney could easily go to constantin and offer them a much smaller sized Paramount offer (i.e. 2.5% of the gross of the first movie the FF appear in and 5% of the gross of the first standalone FF) and constantin's management would be nuts not to take something like this.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

I used RT as an i.e. of an objective critical mark.

I know. I'm suggesting this is a horseshit move that the film industry isn't about to do.

I'm not arguing that Marvel couldn't argue that the film's not done what they wanted it to do. I'm arguing that your hypothetical essentially leads to a future in which film studios start baking RT & Metacritic aggregate scores into their contracts going forward.

Film Industry's not about to reverse the last 20 years of reduced critic influence (which they've benefitted from) to the point they cede that much power on the business end to whatever 300 people from their regional equivalent of the Bumfuck Reader and Almanac thought about their movie.

 

[brawly]

Just give it back. You had not one, not two, but three shots and fucked it up every time.

This is the Doom we want and Marvel will give it to us

 

[spookyfish]

The Rothman Effect is still strong at Fox.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Just give it back.

ridiculous.