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[Rhindle]

If the dongle itself is piracy, we might want to be careful about how we talk about it then. I'm not sure what the latest is on mod policy wrt piracy and emu discussion, but I wouldn't want to be taken to be advocating this device any more than I'd want to be taken to be advocating a pirated copy of a game...

I don't see how that's any different from DS carts, or just about any other device or software hack. They all use some amount of copyrighted code, system calls, APIs etc. For that matter, so does any emulator and most likely just about any console homebrew application.

 

[Valkyr Junkie]

I hope you know that Dragona has banned people in the past for implying homebrews are only going to lead to piracy :lol

As opposed to the current reality that this device that has only been showcased for uses of piracy is going to lead to homebrew?

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

As opposed to the current reality that this device that has only been showcased for uses of piracy is going to lead to homebrew?

The people in the videos don't seem to be pirating anything.

 

[Stumpokapow]

Can we talk about that in the context of a device that - apparently - uses pirated software in order to work?

If that is true, unfortunately there's not really any 'innocent use' of this thing.

Just to clarify my position--again, I'm only speaking for myself, I have not talked to any other moderator about this.

The current DSi flash cards use portions of a copyrighted game (Danny Phantom something or other) to bypass the copyright protection in a way that is probably illegal. Much early-middle Wii homebrew used code derived from an accidentally released Wii repair/debug disc. This was also likely illegal.

We would ban someone looking for a BIOS file to download or offering one to download. I personally would not ban someone for either of the previously mentioned things. Obviously we'd have to see to what extent this particular hack shakes out as being derived from material, and obviously everyone can use their own moral-legal compass to decide how they feel, but I'm not likely to ban people who are trying to use technologies for innocent means.

Some other mods might be more strictly legalistic than I am, but if we were to split on something like this, it's likely that someone would post a clear directive on what to do and do things like warning users or locking threads rather than coming out swinging.

Despite the fact that I'm not speaking for them, I am reasonably certain that charlequin and Dragona agree with me on this particular issue based on previous conversations.

Holy shit I care just as little as I did about your legit trophies!

I think it's fair to say that people cheating leaderboards, whether they're direct leaderboards or indirect ones, are pretty much being jerks to others.

 

[dogmaan]

I love this site. Someone is always watching. In a good way.

Yes comrade

it's Double plus good.

 

[itxaka]

Well if the dongle thingy has illegal software in it, then it is "piracy".

It's copyright infringement in any case. And talking about a device like that is not that problematic I guess.


See the community releasing an open source version with 0 sony code in a few months

 

[N.A]

As opposed to the current reality that this device that has only been showcased for uses of piracy is going to lead to homebrew?

No it hasn't. It's shown the dumping of original disks and claimed to allow homebrew code.

 

[Dreamgazer]

As opposed to the current reality that this device that has only been showcased for uses of piracy is going to lead to homebrew?

I'm sure she's okay with whatever as long as she gets her homebrew.

 

[gofreak]

I hope you know that Dragona has banned people in the past for implying homebrews are only going to lead to piracy :lol

That's not what I said.

What I said is: if this device has pirated software on it in order to work, it doesn't matter what your intended use is. The dongle itself is a pirated piece of kit. It may not be a pirated GAME, but it's pirated software. Homebrewing with it after the fact isn't piracy, but your initial purchase of it is another matter, and that's my point.

IF it's true it has software on it that it shouldn't...

I don't see how that's any different from DS carts, or just about any other device or software hack. They all use some amount of copyrighted code, system calls, APIs etc. For that matter, so does any emulator and most likely just about any console homebrew application.

I'm not familiar with other devices. But I thought most legit emus didn't have pirated code, and where certain proprietary code was needed, they required the user to source themselves (e.g. if a bios was needed or whatnot), such stuff wasn't distributed with it. And there's a difference between making a call from your own software, software that calls libraries elsewhere in a runtime environment or whatever, and - say - distributing the system or library code that's the callee, if that's what you're talking about wrt system and api calls.

 

[missile]

German console modding store confirms that it's legit.

http://www.gamefreax.de/ ...

"Fazit Nr. 2" is kinda funny. xD


INSTALL PACKAGE FILE ftw.

 

[iceatcs]

I thought we cannot talk about any hardware hack modding. We can talk software mod/hack, aka Wii Homebrew Channel and PSP Gen/M33.

 

[sankt-Antonio]

Well we could now dump our legit games to the HDD, and put them away so we never have to swap discs or scratch discs again. Yes and the potential support of homebrew is also crucial.

todays youth is full of fear... let it go, free yourself!

 

[JudgeN]

Wonder were does sony goes from here, do you stop PS3 Modchip PS Jailbreak website/company? Or are they pretty much screwed since the debug key has been leaked? Can they just change the debug key with a firmware update? Or just leave it alone and say "Fuck it"?

 

[BishopLamont]

Just to clarify my position--again, I'm only speaking for myself, I have not talked to any other moderator about this.

The current DSi flash cards use portions of a copyrighted game (Danny Phantom something or other) to bypass the copyright protection in a way that is probably illegal. Much early-middle Wii homebrew used code derived from an accidentally released Wii repair/debug disc. This was also likely illegal.

We would ban someone looking for a BIOS file to download or offering one to download. I personally would not ban someone for either of the previously mentioned things. Obviously we'd have to see to what extent this particular hack shakes out as being derived from material, and obviously everyone can use their own moral-legal compass to decide how they feel, but I'm not likely to ban people who are trying to use technologies for innocent means.

Some other mods might be more strictly legalistic than I am, but if we were to split on something like this, it's likely that someone would post a clear directive on what to do and do things like warning users or locking threads rather than coming out swinging.

Despite the fact that I'm not speaking for them, I am reasonably certain that charlequin and Dragona agree with me on this particular issue based on previous conversations.



I think it's fair to say that people cheating leaderboards, whether they're direct leaderboards or indirect ones, are pretty much being jerks to others.

tldr: discuss it, don't support, show, or brag about doing it.

 

[alr1ght]

Hopefully there is a way for Sony to detect this and console ban anyone on it. All of the potential homebrew is quite significant, but I don't need a bunch of jerks cheating online.

 

[Stumpokapow]

As opposed to the current reality that this device that has only been showcased for uses of piracy is going to lead to homebrew?

Consider this the only warning in the thread; this is clearly a dual use technology, it does clearly enable piracy, but it also clearly enables hard drive installs of games you actually own. If anyone on GAF is pirating or advocating piracy through this, they'll be banned. If you want to talk about the business ramifications of piracy, that's cool. If you want to talk about Sony fixing this, or the other OS / blame the hackers fiasco, that's... well... it's allowed, anyway, I find it pretty stupid.

But if the only purpose of your post is to basically threadshit by saying "I hate this I hate pirates anyone who likes this is a pirate", don't bother posting in the thread.

Edit: A handful of posts are so clearly threadshitting that this warning shouldn't preclude other mods from mopping up stuff.

 

[Momo]

Well if the dongle thingy has illegal software in it, then it is "piracy".

Since there is no openPS3 SDK either (yet), once someone compiles ps3 homebrew, it would technically be illegal since it can only have been compiled by a pirated Sony SDK I would think.

i just wanted to point out that every information about piracy can be hidden as homebrew/hdd dumping talk. so if gaf is against wink wink piracy talk they have to ban more then they do right now

Spoiler

i think im not gaining any friends right now :|

Strangely I'm totally supportive of the PSP homebrew scene (I run CFW) yet find myself in a position where I'm wishing this psjailbreak usb off the face of the earth, strange world :lol

EDIT: for the warning above, please dont interpret this as me saying all homebrew = piracy (I clearly do not harbour these kind of notions since I use CFW on PSP) Just think without an openPS3 SDK all homebrew software will be questionable.

 

[KAL2006]

todays youth is full of fear... let it go, free yourself!

OK I admit the scratching disk part is crazy, however I like having all my games dumped to a hdd, without having to swap disks, this motivates me to play more games (e.g I look at the library of games and play a quick set of Street Fighter 4, then play some COD, then cary on with FFXIII, then back to another set of Street Fighter 4 matches, you get the idea now).

 

[Zombie James]

As opposed to the current reality that this device that has only been showcased for uses of piracy is going to lead to homebrew?

Playing a backup, in itself, isn't piracy. Up here in Canada Land, it's perfectly legal to make backups of anything you own for personal use. You only get into hot water if you try and sell said backups.

The only question about the device I have is how this would work for games that have mandatory installations. Like, you would dump the game onto a hard drive, but then the game would still want to install data onto the PS3's hard drive as normal, right?

 

[-MB-]

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Playing a backup, in itself, isn't piracy. Up here in Canada Land, it's perfectly legal to make backups of anything you own for personal use. You only get into hot water if you try and sell said backups.

The only question about the device I have is how this would work for games that have mandatory installations. Like, you would dump the game onto a hard drive, but then the game would still want to install data onto the PS3's hard drive as normal, right?

Yeah, I would imagine so.

 

[KAL2006]

Playing a backup, in itself, isn't piracy. Up here in Canada Land, it's perfectly legal to make backups of anything you own for personal use. You only get into hot water if you try and sell said backups.

The only question about the device I have is how this would work for games that have mandatory installations. Like, you would dump the game onto a hard drive, but then the game would still want to install data onto the PS3's hard drive as normal, right?

yep that is exactly how it will work, on PSP, I run MGS Peace Walker from the stick, then also install the game on the stick, yes it is weird and it takes more space, but it works

 

[gofreak]

Consider this the only warning in the thread; this is clearly a dual use technology, it does clearly enable piracy, but it also clearly enables hard drive installs of games you actually own. If anyone on GAF is pirating or advocating piracy through this, they'll be banned.

So it's OK to discuss if it's not about pirating games, even if usage requires piracy of other software?

We don't absolutely know that that's the case, but given increasing signals about it in that direction, I don't think it's threadshitting to ask the question. It's sort of fair to ask so we know where we stand.

 

[Version 3.0]

OK I admit the scratching disk part is crazy, however I like having all my games dumped to a hdd, without having to swap disks, this motivates me to play more games (e.g I look at the library of games and play a quick set of Street Fighter 4, then play some COD, then cary on with FFXIII, then back to another set of Street Fighter 4 matches, you get the idea now).

I don't mind swapping discs much, but there is one game I'd like to be able to play disc-free, and that's Rock Band. That one goes back and forth so much, it may as well be a boot disc.

 

[DonMigs85]

But technically if you read Sony or Nintendo's manuals they claim that making "backup or archival copies" is not authorized, right? More info here too:
http://www.nintendo.com/corp/legal.jsp

 

[Stumpokapow]

EDIT: for the warning above, please dont interpret this as me saying all homebrew = piracy (I clearly do not harbour these kind of notions since I use CFW on PSP)

There's no need to walk on eggshells, no one is going to get punished for an innocent remark or one that suggests a willingness to discuss an issue. The kind of people that get banned for this stuff--and I mean historically, not just in this thread--are categorically people posting one line "fuck dis thread" posts.

Consider, another issue--there's plenty of people debating the ease of use of the PC or the cost of investing in a gaming PC and that's fine, but the people who get banned are the one-line "hahahaa pay $2000 and u gotta look at dat 17 inch screen fucken lamerz *halo reach animated gif* n u don't even got exclusives" types.

 

[KAL2006]

So it's OK to discuss if it's not about pirating games, even if usage requires piracy of other software?

We don't absolutely know that that's the case, but given increasing signals about it in that direction, I don't think it's threadshitting to ask the question. It's sort of fair to ask so we know where we stand.

let it go man, if you don't like all this talk leave the topic

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

I think it's fair to say that people cheating leaderboards, whether they're direct leaderboards or indirect ones, are pretty much being jerks to others.

Much like people who ruin Tupperware parties by peeing on the host's cat, this situation doesn't affect me at all and thus I cannot begin to give a fuck.

 

[Boney]

Since there is no openPS3 SDK either (yet), once someone compiles ps3 homebrew, it would technically be illegal since it can only have been compiled by a pirated Sony SDK I would think.

I don't even know what you're talking about :lol

But congratulations! you're not a junior anymore!

 

[Momo]

But technically if you read Sony or Nintendo's manuals they claim that making "backup or archival copies" is not authorized, right? More info here too:
http://www.nintendo.com/corp/legal.jsp

Is that really a law though? "Not authorized" != illegal. Just means they will boot you off psn/live etc

 

[DieH@rd]

This site is reporting that unsigned code can be runned with this exploit. Also, someone complied code for launching copies on real debug test ps3 units.
http://www.nextgenupdate.com/forums...station-3-jailbreak-ps3-consoles-arrives.html

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

But technically if you read Sony or Nintendo's manuals they claim that making "backup or archival copies" is not authorized, right? More info here too:
http://www.nintendo.com/corp/legal.jsp

That's fine, but as we've gone over roughly 17 million times before in various threads, EULAs don't supersede local laws.

 

[Zombie James]

But technically if you read Sony or Nintendo's manuals they claim that making "backup or archival copies" is not authorized, right? More info here too:
http://www.nintendo.com/corp/legal.jsp

I think government law supersedes Sony or Nintendo manuals.

 

[Stumpokapow]

So it's OK to discuss if it's not about pirating games, even if usage requires piracy of other software?

I wouldn't take that from what I posted. What I said was that, without ruling on this specific USB stick thing, we generally ban people when their intent is to pirate in order to get content for free that they otherwise would have to pay for, not because their actions (as in the original ZSNES-on-XBOX OG, the borderline Wii homebrew stuff, the AceKard 2i, etc) may or may not be considered a pirated derived work under the law.

In general, it's okay to discuss anything, though.

We don't absolutely know that that's the case, but given increasing signals about it in that direction, I don't think it's threadshitting to ask the question. It's sort of fair to ask so we know where we stand.

It's not threadshitting to question to what degree this is legal or not or how they came up with this. Like I just said to the other guy, the people that get banned for threadshitting aren't people engaging in conversation, they're people who are shitting on the thread. If you really want to boil down all my warnings, you'd just end up with "Don't be a jerk, dudes."

 

[Steve Youngblood]

tldr: discuss it, don't support, show, or brag about doing it.

In general, it's just a matter of nuance. Not everything is black and white, and it's important to realize that for the damage it can cause, there's also a lot of legitimate customers out there who see being able to use consoles they own in a more open-platform like fashion as a good thing. The fact that bad things happen shouldn't make opening up the platform viewed as inherently detrimental.

Since many of these "hacks" involve questionable means, the forum obviously would probably want to avoid having interested parties question the trafficking of things like a BIOS or whatever other dubious circumventions exist. Also, it should be readily apparent that asking/posting links to where to download games is a no-no.

I mean, sure, the lines might be a little blurred, but it's not as if they're impossible to decipher.

 

[lyre]

wink wink nudge nudge I can finally remove trophies from my ps3
wink wink nudge nudge I can finally unlock the PSP emulator on it to run ISO dumps of my collection on it
wink wink nudge nudge PS3 finally won't be a worthless gimped piece of shit

 

[Momo]

There's no need to walk on eggshells, no one is going to get punished for an innocent remark or one that suggests a willingness to discuss an issue. The kind of people that get banned for this stuff--and I mean historically, not just in this thread--are categorically people posting one line "fuck dis thread" posts.

*phew*

I'm totally not here to rain on any parades, I find those kind of people super annoying in PSP homebrew threads too >.>

I don't even know what you're talking about :lol

But congratulations! you're not a junior anymore!

I didnt think anyone noticed, thank you :blush

Oh what I'm saying is there doesnt appear to be any legal way of compiling homebrew code yet, so the early days of homebrew will be questionable I think.

 

[BishopLamont]

There's no need to walk on eggshells, no one is going to get punished for an innocent remark or one that suggests a willingness to discuss an issue. The kind of people that get banned for this stuff--and I mean historically, not just in this thread--are categorically people posting one line "fuck dis thread" posts.

Consider, another issue--there's plenty of people debating the ease of use of the PC or the cost of investing in a gaming PC and that's fine, but the people who get banned are the one-line "hahahaa pay $2000 and u gotta look at dat 17 inch screen fucken lamerz *halo reach animated gif* n u don't even got exclusives" types.

In general, it's just a matter of nuance. Not everything is black and white, and it's important to realize that for the damage it can cause, there's also a lot of legitimate customers out there who see being able to use consoles they own in a more open-platform like fashion as a good thing. The fact that bad things happen shouldn't make opening up the platform viewed as inherently detrimental.

Since many of these "hacks" involve questionable means, the forum obviously would probably avoid having interested parties question the trafficking of things like a BIOS of whatever other dubious circumventions exist. Also, it should be readily apparent that asking/posting links to where to download games is a no-no.

I mean, sure, the lines might be a little blurred, but it's not as if they're impossible to decipher.

tldr: don't be a dumbass.

PS. We should make an official R4 topic, that should keep the mods busy.

 

[UntoldDreams]

Assuming legit...

Sony's problem here was that someone on the inside leaked the hardware key specs.

This was simply not reverse "engineerable". You couldn't without the hardware key itself or specs on how it works.

 

[DonMigs85]

wink wink nudge nudge I can finally remove trophies from my ps3
wink wink nudge nudge I can finally unlock the PSP emulator on it to run ISO dumps of my collection on it
wink wink nudge nudge PS3 finally won't be a worthless gimped piece of shit

I dunno, I'd still be too scared to tinker with anything that, "officially", shouldn't be messed with. The risk of getting a console ban is high too.

 

[Diablohead]

wink wink nudge nudge I can finally remove trophies from my ps3
wink wink nudge nudge I can finally unlock the PSP emulator on it to run ISO dumps of my collection on it
wink wink nudge nudge PS3 finally won't be a worthless gimped piece of shit

I forgot about that psp "emulator" or whatever it is running minis on the ps3, might get another ps1 on psp scenario lol.

 

[MiloFoxburr]

I forgot about that psp "emulator" or whatever it is running minis on the ps3, might get another ps1 on psp scenario lol.

Holy crap that would be awesome.

 

[KAL2006]

This site is reporting that unsigned code can be runned with this exploit. Also, someone complied code for launching copies on real debug test ps3 units.
http://www.nextgenupdate.com/forums...station-3-jailbreak-ps3-consoles-arrives.html

so they are saying a free version for everyone is highly possible, cool beans

also to the folks that keep bringing up what we allowed to talk about, this has been bought up too many times, I am getting sick of this, if anyone has a problem about any of this talk or doesnt understand what is allowed to be talked about, either figure it out, or leave the topic.

 

[gofreak]

I wouldn't take that from what I posted. What I said was that, without ruling on this specific USB stick thing, we generally ban people when their intent is to pirate in order to get content for free that they otherwise would have to pay for, not because their actions (as in the original ZSNES-on-XBOX OG, the borderline Wii homebrew stuff, the AceKard 2i, etc) may or may not be considered a pirated derived work under the law.

In general, it's okay to discuss anything, though.



It's not threadshitting to question to what degree this is legal or not or how they came up with this. Like I just said to the other guy, the people that get banned for threadshitting aren't people engaging in conversation, they're people who are shitting on the thread. If you really want to boil down all my warnings, you'd just end up with "Don't be a jerk, dudes."

OK, thank you.

I'm just gonna use my own judgment then, and wait for confirmation about what's on the stick. A legit way to homebrew would be very nice.

 

[missile]

Hopefully there is a way for Sony to detect this and console ban anyone on it. All of the potential homebrew is quite significant, but I don't need a bunch of jerks cheating online.

They can just deny games being launched from a "debug unit".

Since there is no openPS3 SDK either (yet), once someone compiles ps3 homebrew, it would technically be illegal since it can only have been compiled by a pirated Sony SDK I would think.

I guess a package file can be created in a "text" editor. It's just a
container containing binaries and other data. If I remember correctly,
building such (unsigned) packages were done in the past without a
Sony SDK.

 

[Boney]

wink wink nudge nudge I can finally remove trophies from my ps3
wink wink nudge nudge I can finally unlock the PSP emulator on it to run ISO dumps of my collection on it
wink wink nudge nudge PS3 finally won't be a worthless gimped piece of shit

holy crap :lol

Goodbye PSP then?

 

[Diablohead]

Holy crap that would be awesome.

It's going to depend on limits, does the psp mini side of games have full access? i don't own a psp so I can't guess at all in how they play or what they are like on a ps3.

 

[Stumpokapow]

The risk of getting a console ban is high too.

lyre... has a very esoteric perspective on current gen consoles including a dislike for user profiles, online gaming, digitally downloaded games, etc. I would be very surprised if his PS3 has been online, ever. I don't pretend to understand it, I can just tell you that in his particular case, he's not going to care if he's gotta keep his console offline.

 

[lethial]

I wonder if the dongle has anything to prevent someone from dumping it and allowing it to be used on any USB stick\HD.

 

[AndyD]

Much like people who ruin Tupperware parties by peeing on the host's cat, this situation doesn't affect me at all and thus I cannot begin to give a fuck.

What kind of example is that? Who pees on cats?

THat said, I wonder what kind of homebrew scene we might get for the PS3. Apps that we can run on XMB? A weather gadget? A DLNA proper Media player?

I still would love to not have to flip discs, but otherwise, my imagination is sort of running flat right now.