phosphor112
Banned
"I know a guy who knows everything about this and that bla bla" You guys are too naive! Sorry, had to be said.
I'm not taking what he's saying with much grain, but you haven't contributed anything yourself.
"I know a guy who knows everything about this and that bla bla" You guys are too naive! Sorry, had to be said.
Please let us know how the previous information he has given us is incorrect.
Thats not quite the way it works.
Of course not. Sony has infinite money to throw around.
If it's like PC development... They just port down.
PC->720->PS4
I'm pretty sure that's exactly how determining the reliability of someone's information works.
More like 720->PS4->PC as after thought but atleast all games will feature some level of dx11 on pc unless you are From Software.
Well they are a few factors which would make one system more powerful than the next that it could matter .
1. How much both MS and Sony willing to spend on there system . ( who willing to lose the most )
2 . Time of release ( 9 plus months afterwards )
3. One of them do some tech break threw .
I don't see any of them happening so it should come down to who has the better tools and dev preference .
So i do agree with what you are saying unless something strange happens .
It might allow for a chip with better yields. With time, comes maturity, and that statement couldn't be any more true for technology.
PS4 sounds weak compared to the nextbox....as a PS fan, this news is really disappointing
Yeah, it could lead to better yields, that's true. That would just help with production though, not with the performance of the systems.
Also, I wonder when did that 6 month delay occurred? In steamroller days or now with Jaguars?
I suppose it is something like:
Ms: 8 jaguar cores + 7750 gpu with EDRAM + 8 gb of DDR4
Sony: 4 jaguar cores with shaders (APU) + 7850 + 4gb Gddr5
Remember when the Xbox was more powerful?
We still had games from Sony that looked like this.
Leave it to the devs to craft something truly amazing. Power helps, but dev creativity speaks for itself.
Multiplatform development has not been kind to the PlayStation brand this generation. There have been significant short cuts taken to make games run on the console. I really hope the next generation will allow Sony to factor in things like "free anti-aliasing", texture fill rate, and alpha effects.
Where is the darth vader pic with the big NO!!!!!!
Read more closely... MS is going with CPU+GPU, Sony is going with APU+GPU. Exclusive games could still end up very similar...
Post-process AA works great at higher resolutions. Personally I don't see any reason for MSAA at 1080p, the MLAA on AMD drivers works great for me.LOL
Shader-based vaseline AA, you mean? Sure you'll get lots of that next gen.
I'd like to know more about what your friend meant with "same chip."
Is it in the same family of chips i.e. Pitcairn, where the 7770 has 640 SP's and the 7750 has 512? They are still the same chip.
Or is it the same exact chip, in which case it's still not enough info to ascertain the performance. AMD 6630 and 6670 are the same chip but 6670 is clocked higher and uses GDDR5 and thus has more than 2x the bandwidth, and ends up being more than 50% faster on PC.
In short we need more info
Coldfoot said:Post-process AA works great at higher resolutions. Personally I don't see any reason for MSAA at 1080p, the MLAA on AMD drivers works great for me.
There is no indication of this. New xbox is supposed to have more ram, but it's supposed to do more at once, and requires more memory for things like kinect. A "Kinect 2" would require much more ram than what we have now.
I hope you guys are right but this isn't very reassuring. I just don't want substandard ports the next time around, I have missed out on too many good games that only ran well on Xbox 360. Nextbox having more ram might be a big hindrance when it comes to porting games.
If anything, it looks like the reverse of this gen where Sony will get a weaker CPU but a more powerful GPU. I'm also sure that developers would prefer a 4GB pool of fast GDDR5 memory over an EDRAM + slow DDR setup.
LOL
Shader-based vaseline AA, you mean? Sure you'll get lots of that next gen.
LOL
Shader-based vaseline AA, you mean? Sure you'll get lots of that next gen.
I wouldn't bet on anything with the vague info we have so far...I am either hoping that:Don't remember where I saw it, but I wouldn't bet on either having the more powerful GPU.
Honestly at 1080p, I would prefer developer's to focus on things like post processing effects, higher quality textures, and complex environmental geometry. I'm sure we will find a balance.
While 1080p isn't the limit for human eyesight, it results in some damn small pixels and I have been finding 1080p + MLAA very very good for gaming on PC with no stair stepping that would irritate me at a lower resolution. Maybe you have younger and sharper eyes than me.Post process AA, even the newer/better ones, is always off on my PC and I game at 1080p. It always manages to soften the image in some form. I'd rather play with no AA than post-processed AA.
Sometimes you guys expect too much. Development on consoles is always going to be about compromises. For example, if you want 1080p you're going to sacrifice other things. If you want 60fps you're going to have to sacrifice other things (like resolution, detail, etc). Real AA eats a lot of resources as well, which is why people have come up with these various vaseline filters this gen. etc etcAnd last but not least... Stable 30fps or 60fps.
I wouldn't bet on anything with the vague info we have so far...I am either hoping that:
XBL fee goes away and the xbox is more powerful
OR
PS4 is more powerful (and still free online)
OR
Windows 8 gets all Xbox games + free XBL (best scenario)
Honestly at 1080p, I would prefer developer's to focus on things like post processing effects, higher quality textures, and complex environmental geometry. I'm sure we will find a balance.
Sometimes you guys expect too much. Development on consoles is always going to be about compromises. For example, if you want 1080p you're going to sacrifice other things. If you want 60fps you're going to have to sacrifice other things (like resolution, detail, etc).
I want AA even at 1080p.
I find it funny people say Sony has no money but then you hear about them buying companies or investing in something all the time.
PS division( where ever it is now) is on of the few places that makes money for Sony there not going to cheap out on PS4 but at the same time they have to get ROI.
It is all a balancing act ( something they did great with PS1 and PS2 but fail big time with PS3 ) the same can be said for MS .
These companies are not going to lose billions of dollars just to say look i have 400Gflops than each other when that small amount won't even matter .
Uhhh... We had more stable framerates last gen. I'm not just talking about 60fps games... I mean 30fps games too.
Cinematic Framerate games became the norm this gen.
With time, programming improvements could really push things forward and that tech demo might end up being "LOL" worthy.
I really don't agree with this. I've played plenty of games last gen that have sub-30 frame rates.
Let's not jump to conclusions =p
Too cocky after 2 gens of win.
I've read that even with higher fidelity, Kinect 2 shouldn't require a lot of memory.
At least they won't be as bad as the current methods. There's a chance PPAA can look pretty good next gen.
Ever wondered why the lack of advertising for the Vita? The fact they have sold assets such as their stake in LCD?
Sony are under massive stress right now. Whatever they are spending money on is obviously important in their eyes to their future for survival. I'm sure if Sony had the dollars, they'd be putting everything into marketing the Vita and its games, unlike the actual reality.
Skeleton information shouldn't take that much info. Maybe some extra memory for different datastructures with predefined poses.
if they had to kill vita for PS4 they would do it .
Sony is not willfully wanting to kill Vita.
Thru my filter, the 22nm part is believeable. Matches info that Microsoft was sent the Chip for testing. GloFlo is going to be 22nm and TSMC is 20nm.http://misterxmedia.livejournal.com/104116.html said:Insider: Cliffy b ... Is going to be the head man at ms e3 2013 is going to be the biggest day in video game history. ms has over 30 studios making games the best of the best. Phil is genius ps3 slim is a money grab at wii u.. 720 a true next gen console as ms gave sorted fab now. Perfect cpu's gpu's 22nm now. ms will also be standing by 360 till 2018 offical x enigne lives. 720 is mind blowing got to see and sample final hardware 22nm hardware 8gig of ram its a power house full 64bit x86 cpu cores. Big jump its 100% better then dev kit. Production starts next month late may e3 could release like xbox/s
Misterxmedia: WOW, just wow. I knew Cliffy B left for MS side. Glad to hear about Phil and his achivements allready. Great news.
Insider: Dev kit is 22nm 20 will be final hardware or 22 ether or is 25% better. These system will have big power overheads 400watt+ over heads.. people can say what they think massive jump "massive jump" sony wont have the most powerfull console next round. 720 is deffently 30% more powerfull thrn ps4. Ms have open the bank. Cliffy b. And others are working 130% on system games. There is x devs from nintendo/sony first party working on games ms has hired the whos who of developers. 30 lunch game window. but every thing is tied down but there is a massive leak on the intetnet about to surface your going to be shocked.
http://www.electronicsweekly.com/blogs/david-manners-semiconductor-blog/2012/10/14nm-is-the-equaliser-says-glo.html said:Next year GF starts production on 20nm. GF's 20nm SRAM, and various customer test chips on 20nm, are yielding "very well", said Chian.
They selling there stake in LCD with Samsung was one of the best things they could have done there TV business has been a dead end for years .
Another problem is you have is thinking Sony care about Vita as much as PS4 .
Trust me when PS4 comes out you will see Sony spend money , if they had to kill Vita for PS4 they would do it .
In my gaming collection I can't really say.
I don't remember lots of PS2, GC, and Xbox games performing like Shadow Of The Colossus.
Maybe Half Life 2 on Xbox. But I never played it.
Fuck post-processed AA, the "blue filter" employed on PS3 games this generations was a MAJOR turn off... at least let us disable that crap in the settings I want a razar sharp image not a blur fest.
Can we expect a 720p kinect 2 next gen?
If so then we can calculate the memory requirement for the buffers.
You need a extra 7.2mB of extra ram for double buffered depth info at 32 bits/pixel thats quite big considering that most sensors are 10 bits if i should believe the Elektro guys
Skeleton information shouldn't take that much info. Maybe some extra memory for different datastructures with predefined poses. So i would be surprised if kinect 2 took more then 10mb of memory. For 1080p kinect it shouldn't take more then 20mb.
AMD HSA should be perfect for kinect having the gpu process the incoming depth info.
I believe Lionhead or Rare already did that on the 360.
The only way the dev kit is 22nm if it's using the newest Intel Xeons (I don't think it is, though).
The Jaguars will be 28nm, as will the GCN GPUs.
GF/TSMC is struggling enough currently with 28nm yields, and widespread issues with smaller processes are well known in their immaturity and price. Die shrinks are not going to be much of a factor next gen, imo, hence the importance of initial pricing.
Not according to the recent news article.The only way the dev kit is 22nm if it's using the newest Intel Xeons (I don't think it is, though).
The Jaguars will be 28nm, as will the GCN GPUs.
GF/TSMC is struggling enough currently with 28nm yields, and widespread issues with smaller processes are well known in their immaturity and price. Die shrinks are not going to be much of a factor next gen, imo, hence the importance of initial pricing.
Test chips have been produced and sent to clients, Microsoft from two "Rumors" just got their test chips (One rumor it's a 22nm or 20nm). Timing fits.http://www.electronicsweekly.com/blogs/david-manners-semiconductor-blog/2012/10/14nm-is-the-equaliser-says-glo.html said:Next year GF starts production on 20nm. GF's 20nm SRAM, and various customer test chips on 20nm, are yielding "very well", said Chian.
Because of the following RECENT news article I started going back and rereading cites.KageMaru said:Agreed. I don't even understand why people are questioning 22nm in this thread all of a sudden.
The above meets the need of a Game console "the performance should be stretched at the launch time" and multiple Forges can produce it. (GloFlo & IBM are currently 28nm gate first so designs for them can't work with TSMC. At 20nm AMD is moving to gate-last and that design can be produced by TSMC.)http://www.guru3d.com/news_printer/amd_20132014_and_2015_gpu_codenames.html said:According to an article, AMD will continue the trend in 2014 with "Volcanic Islands". This GPU series will go head-to-head against NVIDIA's Maxwell and Intel's second-gen Xeon Phi architecture. Volcanic Islands will be the first GPU family from AMD to be manufactured at 20nm Gate-Last process, giving the company freedom to choose between the Common Platform Alliance (IBM, GlobalFoundries and Samsung) as well as long-term partner TSMC. This will also be the year when we'll see full system integration between the CPU and GPU. The APU (for consumers and servers) will extend to the discrete graphics card and treat it as an integral part, and the other way around.
Thru my filter, the 22nm part is believeable. Matches info that Microsoft was sent the Chip for testing. GloFlo is going to be 22nm and TSMC is 20nm.
GF is certainly not known for gross embellishment or missing deadlines or anything
I think Sony would need a substantially more powerful GPU to compete with MS next gen. I just don't see Sony touching MS in providing tools, especially tools for parallel processing. Parallel processing is why I believe MS is going with the setup its going with. Corrine Yu has been playing around with parallel processing for a while and thinks its the future. She's on the directx board and seems to influence at MS through out the company.
Though recently I've been thinking Sony won't be in the games industry after the PS4 if they are out to compete with MS.
Google search TSMC 20nm, all news is the last 6 days; same for the AMD/GoFlo 20nm news. The Mistermedia post is 12 days old so the sweetvar26 post could be copying it and Mistermedia is trolling us but if they are from separate sources at least the news that test chips are now being sent out is accurate. I don't know how Mistermedia could know 20nm is now available from TSMC and GloFlo a week before it hit the news unless he has inside sources.Really now Jeff that whole post\site seem like bullshit .
Right now even Intel is having problems at 22nm and there are also wide know problems with GF/TSMC at 28nm .
Lol the whole site is about bashing Sony and calling out fan boys on neogaf what a waste of a click .
While were at it lets say they using 14nm .......
From what I recall, 14nm is counter intuitive to production and costs and will see basically zero benefit for how much money they have to put it in, just to get something out of it. That's what I recall. I think it was an article over a year ago though... things change.While were at it lets say they using 14nm .......
Google search TSMC 20nm, all news is the last 6 days; same for the AMD/GoFlo 20nm news