Support NeoGAF

[Your Entertainer]

This is what it must've felt like to be a Republican as the Tea Party slowly started encroaching and taking over

Except the views replacing yours are actually good vs even more bat shit crazy

 

[SexyFish]

This is what it must've felt like to be a Republican as the Tea Party slowly started encroaching and taking over

I mean Ellison has the support of Reid, Schumer, Sanders, and Warren. Not like a ton of democrats are terrified of the man. And Reid and Schumer are not the face of the Progressive wing.

 

[Wall]

I wouldn't even mind Dean. I think he did a good job as chair. I just find all the hand wringing funny on here when it's clear all the Democratic heavyweights are coalescing around Ellison. Going off what people are writing here, you would think it's just some weird fringe pushing Ellison and not both the current and future senate minority leader as well as the other two most powerful and prominent Democrats in the Senate.

Realistically, none of us on GAF are in a position to know how not being full time will impact Ellison's ability to do the job. Even if he just refrains from campaigning for Republican friends and trying to use the DNC as a patronage machine he'll be an improvement over DWS.

 

[hodayathink]

I wouldn't even mind Dean. I think he did a good job as chair. I just find all the hand wringing funny on here when it's clear all the Democratic heavyweights are coalescing around Ellison. Going off what people are writing here, you would think it's just some weird fringe pushing Ellison and not both the current and future senate minority leader as well as the other two most powerful and prominent Democrats in the Senate.

Realistically, none of us on GAF are in a position to know how not being full time will impact Ellison's ability to do the job. Even if he just refrains from campaigning for Republican friends and trying to use the DNC as a patronage machine he'll be an improvement over DWS.

I agree that given that there's basically been no one else mentioned by any sitting politicians for the position (Dean has basically offered himself, no one has offered him up at this point), I do agree that he is most likely who is going to be chosen. But just being an improvement over DWS isn't what the Democrats need. If they aren't careful, Republicans will have a super-majority in the Senate in 2018, the state legislatures necessary to further gerrymander in 2020, and possibly even enough state legislatures to pass a constitutional amendment somewhere by 2020 (if they do really well) or 2022 (if they don't do as well, but still get to gerrymander in 2020 to fix a few more states).

 

[Abstrusity]

I wouldn't even mind Dean. I think he did a good job as chair. I just find all the hand wringing funny on here when it's clear all the Democratic heavyweights are coalescing around Ellison. Going off what people are writing here, you would think it's just some weird fringe pushing Ellison and not both the current and future senate minority leader as well as the other two most powerful and prominent Democrats in the Senate.

Realistically, none of us on GAF are in a position to know how not being full time will impact Ellison's ability to do the job. Even if he just refrains from campaigning for Republican friends and trying to use the DNC as a patronage machine he'll be an improvement over DWS.

To be honest, I'm just trying to figure out how the DNC is gonna shit the bed THIS time.

Maybe everyone ignores Ellison AND Dean and Hillary Clinton gets the spot or something insane like that.

To be honest, I expect nothing and will likely still be disappointed.

 

[Seventy70]

I mean Ellison has the support of Reid, Schumer, Sanders, and Warren. Not like a ton of democrats are terrified of the man. And Reid and Schumer are not the face of the Progressive wing.

Also, someone who did a good job 10 years ago might not do a good job now. The landscape has completely changed. If we've learned anything from this election, it's that we can't rely on old tricks to always work. It's time for a change.

The people endorsing Ellison have a big following. If Ellison gets in, I'm sure it would produce lots of enthusiasm among Democrats. Bernie especially has a massive reach. He might be able to tap into that same audience to vote in 2018 and 2020.

 

[bachikarn]

Ellison would be a great choice. I'd be lying if I said I'm not concerned about hearing Howard Dean's name. He became a lobbyist which frankly concerns me. He became the thing he used to fight against. Just not sure if I can trust him. Also, he's had the job before and while he did a good job, the issue is I want him to recruit new types of democrats and not definitely not neoliberals which is what I'm afraid he will recruit. I would just rather give Ellison a shot. When you get completely wiped out like this, you have to be willing try something new and not the same old stuff because the same old stuff is what got the dems in this mess in the first place and Dean represents the same old stuff to me.

I want him or Ellison (or whoever they chose) to recruit people that win. Each state is different. We are getting our asses kicked so badly at the local level, we need to do whatever it takes to win. Might not be perfect, but that would be way better than what we have now.

Also, someone who did a good job 10 years ago might not do a good job now. The landscape has completely changed. If we've learned anything from this election, it's that we can't rely on old tricks to always work. It's time for a change.

I don't think Dean would only be recruiting people that have his same beliefs. He would increase infrastructure at the local level and find people who can win there. So while it is a different political landscape, I'm pretty sure his general strategy would work even today.



Personally, I'm happy with either Dean or Ellison (if he goes full time), but I find this massive backlash by some over Dean to be a little ridiculous.

 

[hodayathink]

Also, someone who did a good job 10 years ago might not do a good job now. The landscape has completely changed. If we've learned anything from this election, it's that we can't rely on old tricks to always work. It's time for a change.

The people endorsing Ellison have a big following. If Ellison gets in, I'm sure it would produce lots of enthusiasm among Democrats. Bernie especially has a massive reach. He might be able to tap into that same audience to vote in 2018 and 2020.

Except that the job of the DNC Chair isn't necessarily to produce enthusiasm. It's to find other politicians that do. It's to find that State Senator whose winning by large margins and maybe convince them that he should make a run at the US Senate. It's to find that small town mayor that's loved by their constituents and convince them to run for the state legislature. It's to find that person on the county board and convince them to run for mayor. Well, technically, it's their job to build up the local Democratic Parties so they can find those people.

 

[Piecake]

I don't understand your point here. Ellison will be up for reelection in 2018, so he'll be busy. This position needs someone fully dedicated to increase the chances to take either congress chamber in 2018. That's just 2 years away.

He won't be that busy on that front. There is absolutely no possibility that he will lose the election. You could dig up a corpse and run it as a democrat and still win his district

 

[noshten]

Elison has been endorsed by pretty much everyone that matters, I'm not sure why people are still brining up Dean.
DSW wasn't a bad chair because she was "splitting" her time, DWS was a bad chair because she put her interests first, played favorites, didn't care about Democrats enough to see the issues with Clinton and had no clear idea of the reality and the real danger of underestimating Trump.
DWS was a disconnected politican, while Elison as a black muslim who supporter Bernie in the primary and has shown understanding of the reality in America not just his own echo chamber. This is the type of individual you want leading the party during a Trump presidency a person able to think outside his own bubble.

 

[hodayathink]

Elison has been endorsed by pretty much everyone that matters, I'm not sure why people are still brining up Dean.
DSW wasn't a bad chair because she was "splitting" her time, DWS was a bad chair because she put her interests first, played favorites, didn't care about Democrats enough to see the issues with Clinton and had no clear idea of the reality and the real danger of underestimating Trump.
DWS was a disconnected politican, while Elison as a black muslim who supporter Bernie in the primary and has shown understanding of the reality in America not just his own echo chamber. This is the type of individual you want leading the party during a Trump presidency a person able to think outside his own bubble.

Even that isn't true. DWS isn't a bad chair because they ignored Clinton's shortcomings (just like you're ignoring Bernie's and pretending they wouldn't have mattered). DWS (and Kaine) were bad chairs because in their quest flip states on a national level (for presidential and senate races) they basically ignored the state level (legislature and governors) and screwed up with the House as well.

 

[n00bsauce87]

I just hope that the DNC is filled with people who sees the coalition as it is that makes up the democratic party. Which is basically the minority coalition.

I'm thinking that voter turnout is democratic problem. If during the midterms it seems that republicans always get their constituencies out to vote,m they clearly have an understanding that voting matters. The democratic party has to also get their block enthusiastic to vote. Having all this corruption in the air didn't help by far. Things might change in 2018.

 

[hodayathink]

I just hope that the DNC is filled with people who sees the coalition as it is that makes up the democratic party. Which is basically the minority coalition.

I'm thinking that voter turnout is democratic problem. If during the midterms it seems that republicans always get their constituencies out to vote,m they clearly have an understanding that voting matters. The democratic party has to also get their block enthusiastic to vote. Having all this corruption in the air didn't help by far. Things might change in 2018.

The reason Republicans come out to vote all the time is because they aren't voting for the person, they're voting for the platform. The problem Dems have, especially locally and during midterms, is that they turn out for the person and not the platform. You're not gonna be able to find fresh exciting candidates every single time, and depending on them to show up leads to situations like the one we're in right now. Amongst many other issues, Dems have to get people excited to vote for the platform just as much as, if not more than, they're excited to vote for the person. Which is going to probably mean going more progressive, but also finding something in there for the displaced working class beyond better social safety nets (which isn't something most of them seem willing to switch allegiances for).

 

[thefro]

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/howard-dean-dnc-chair-2016-231320

Dean was on Morning Joe this morning and had some good things to say about Ellison, but still thinks the Chair needs to be a FT position.

Edit: Video Link

“When I started, when my team started, we didn't have the house, the senate or the presidency. When we left four years later with had the house, the senate and the presidency,” Dean told MSNBC’s “Morning Joe. “So, you know, I think I know how to do this. But, you know, this is not something -- I've already done this once. This is not something I have to do. This is not something I’m going to push people out of the way for.”

The Vermont governor said Ellison is “terrific” and noted that he had gone door-to-door with him during the Minnesota congressman’s first campaign. Dean said “I'm going to be supportive of whoever wins this,” but repeated what he has said in the past, that he does not think it is possible to be an effective party chairman while holding elected office at the same time.

While refining a political message will be crucial if the Democratic Party is to escape the minority in both houses of Congress and mount a strong challenge for the White House in four years, Dean said the DNC chairman’s job is one that focuses more on mechanics and less on messaging, which should come from the party’s policy leaders in Congress. He said the party needs to do a better job of involving young people and minorities if it is to rebound from last week’s historic defeat.

“The house and senate leadership are going to have to deliver the economic message. The DNC chair can do that. I think that's important. But it's important for the policy leaders to do that. What the DNC is about is mechanics,” Dean said. “It is about being everywhere. It's about training people up. It's about having an adequate tech system which we no longer apparently have. And it's about enfranchising people in the states to make their own decisions about who runs instead of having the D-triple-C or the DSCC pick candidates who can fund their own campaigns and then can't win because they can't get the message across. That is the problem with the Democratic Party.”

Edit 2: Watched the video and bolded the part where Dean was visibly pissed off. I think that's a key point.

 

[JP_]

So Keith Ellison has a podcast called We the Podcast: https://www.podomatic.com/podcasts/wethepodcast/episodes/2016-11-04T07_39_12-07_00

I just listened to the latest episode -- that's a near perfect example of the left's populist message. That's what the party needs to be communicating to voters. That's a message that can appeal to a broader coalition.

 

[Valhelm]

Ellison could be a pretty decent candidate but I worry the Muslim thing would sink him.

Is Bernie absolutely too old to win an election?

 

[Jeels]

Ellison could be a pretty decent candidate but I worry the Muslim thing would sink him.

Is Bernie absolutely too old to win an election?

This is DNC chair. Not president...

 

[SlimySnake]

So Keith Ellison has a podcast called We the Podcast: https://www.podomatic.com/podcasts/wethepodcast/episodes/2016-11-04T07_39_12-07_00

I just listened to the latest episode -- that's a near perfect example of the left's populist message. That's what the party needs to be communicating to WHITE voters. That's a message that can appeal to a broader coalition.

Fixed that for you.

They need to go into rural america, to blue collar white voters working in mines and factories and promise them the world. they dont care. just lie your heart out and win the elections.

 

[Candescence]

The reason Republicans come out to vote all the time is because they aren't voting for the person, they're voting for the platform. The problem Dems have, especially locally and during midterms, is that they turn out for the person and not the platform. You're not gonna be able to find fresh exciting candidates every single time, and depending on them to show up leads to situations like the one we're in right now. Amongst many other issues, Dems have to get people excited to vote for the platform just as much as, if not more than, they're excited to vote for the person. Which is going to probably mean going more progressive, but also finding something in there for the displaced working class beyond better social safety nets (which isn't something most of them seem willing to switch allegiances for).

Well, the problem is, either find economically viable jobs that can't just be moved to the Third World (whether it be China or Vietnam, etc) or accept that the economy is changing and create new policies so displaced people aren't left behind (such as Universal Basic Income). Either is going to be a challenge.

 

[JP_]

Fixed that for you.

They need to go into rural america, to blue collar white voters working in mines and factories and promise them the world. they dont care. just lie your heart out and win the elections.

Doubt you listened to it.

 

[Valhelm]

This is DNC chair. Not president...

I'm speaking about 2020 hypotheticals

 

[loki 16]

Rep. Keith Ellison formally announces candidacy for chairman of the Democratic National Committee

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/ellison-announces-for-dnc-chair-231335

 

[lenovox1]

I'm speaking about 2020 hypotheticals

Ellison should not concern himself with running for president if he is the DNC chair over the next four years. He has races to support, run, and win in all 50 of the state's and their respective counties and districts.

 

[Bob Coffee]

Ellison would make a good face for the DNC, but we need dean, the guy understands mechanics, has comeback from a situation similar to what those on the left face. and face it he's won. and the democrats need to do alot more winning in 2018 and 2020. let warren, bernie and progressives hammer out the message, and let dean run the 50 state strat to get it done starting at the state and local levels. then go for the throat and ether end gerrymandering all together, or redistrict like a mofo in 2020 for a future bid to end gerrymandering. the left is on the ropes right now, GoP has control of the senate, house, presidency and scotus, and will soon have a majority of state and local goverments. the time for campaigning solely based on the higher ground and Starbucks liberal echo chamber ethics is over. the time has come to actually fucking win. winning has to be the sole goal, not only for mitigating the possible damage a trump presidency can cause, but also for the posiblity of getting some progessive legistlation which benefits everyone done. again the DNC chair position is not about ideals, its about getting the tech in there to fucking win.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

Well, the problem is, either find economically viable jobs that can't just be moved to the Third World (whether it be China or Vietnam, etc) or accept that the economy is changing and create new policies so displaced people aren't left behind (such as Universal Basic Income). Either is going to be a challenge.

The irony is that the people who would most benefit from this (rural whites who are definitely going to be displaced by further automation and other advancements in the next decade or so) are just going to complain about minorities abusing it, bootstraps, their tax dollars, blah blah

 

[Furyous]

*grabs mic and calls Democrats into a room*

If y'all don't filibuster EVERY SINGLE PIECE OF LEGISLATION REPUBLICANS SUPPORT and obstruct Trump like Republicans did Obama then none of you have the spine to lead the country and are undeserving as a whole of becoming President during the next election.

*drops mic and exits room*

 

[OrangeGrayBlue]

Ellison would make a good face for the DNC, but we need dean, the guy understands mechanics, has comeback from a situation similar to what those on the left face. and face it he's won. and the democrats need to do alot more winning in 2018 and 2020. let warren, bernie and progressives hammer out the message, and let dean run the 50 state strat to get it done starting at the state and local levels. then go for the throat and ether end gerrymandering all together, or redistrict like a mofo in 2020 for a future bid to end gerrymandering. the left is on the ropes right now, GoP has control of the senate, house, presidency and scotus, and will soon have a majority of state and local goverments. the time for campaigning solely based on the higher ground and Starbucks liberal echo chamber ethics is over. the time has come to actually fucking win. winning has to be the sole goal, not only for mitigating the possible damage a trump presidency can cause, but also for the posiblity of getting some progessive legistlation which benefits everyone done. again the DNC chair position is not about ideals, its about getting the tech in there to fucking win.

I'm not sure how much of the dems' success from 2006-2008 lies with Dean. Bush was wildly unpopular at the time and Obama was a once-in-a-generation candidate. He had the wind in his sails through his entire tenure.

 

[OrangeGrayBlue]

The irony is that the people who would most benefit from this (rural whites who are definitely going to be displaced by further automation and other advancements in the next decade or so) are just going to complain about minorities abusing it, bootstraps, their tax dollars, blah blah

Right, I'm not sure how you convince people whose cornerstone of political ideology is the value of hard work that hard work is no longer valuable.


Edit- sorry for double post.

 

[Calamari41]

I'm not sure how much of the dems' success from 2006-2008 lies with Dean. Bush was wildly unpopular at the time and Obama was a once-in-a-generation candidate. He had the wind in his sails through his entire tenure.

Hurricane Katrina's bungled handling cannot be overstated as a political earthquake. Add the financial collapse and the Iraq War going so tits up as to require a surge in order to get things calmed down, and Obama running, even DWS could have taken the Presidency and Congress from the Republicans in that span of time.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

Hurricane Katrina's bungled handling cannot be overstated as a political earthquake. Add the financial collapse and the Iraq War going so tits up as to require a surge in order to get things calmed down, and Obama running, even DWS could have taken the Presidency and Congress from the Republicans in that span of time.

This is the problem with judging the position. Hard to separate the actual hard work with political happenstance.

 

[faisal233]

Disappointing interview on Keepin it 1600. Not ready for primetime.

 

[Effect]

Disappointing interview on Keepin it 1600. Not ready for primetime.

Listening to that episode now but not up to the interview yet. Was curious as to how that was going to go.

 

[faisal233]

Hurricane Katrina's bungled handling cannot be overstated as a political earthquake. Add the financial collapse and the Iraq War going so tits up as to require a surge in order to get things calmed down, and Obama running, even DWS could have taken the Presidency and Congress from the Republicans in that span of time.

Sure, let's agree that Dean shouldn't get any credit for the DNC's success. Now let's look at what happened after he left.

Senate and Governor are statewide races but the Dem's had outsized losses in Governor races compared to the Senate. This is a party priority issue.

Interestingly state legislature losses correlate with the loss of the house. It's almost as if ignoring state legislatures allowed the GOP to dominate and gerrymander.

 

[PBY]

Disappointing interview on Keepin it 1600. Not ready for primetime.

Yeah, like I said, totally agree.

Sounded like he was unprepared in some spots, missed some critical issues and generally wasn't the kind of presence I expected.

Could have just been a poor interview, but it definitely makes me think twice about the momentum cresting around him.

 

[faisal233]

Yeah, like I said, totally agree.

Sounded like he was unprepared in some spots, missed some critical issues and generally wasn't the kind of presence I expected.

Could have just been a poor interview, but it definitely makes me think twice about the momentum cresting around him.

The content of the interview bothered me the most. He focused of the easiest problem to fix, the message. Everything else was vague platitudes. I don't want the DNC chair to be the voice of the party, I want him to figure out how to make inroads in state legislatures and governor races.

 

[PBY]

The content of the interview bothered me the most. He focused of the easiest problem to fix, the message. Everything else was vague platitudes. I don't want the DNC chair to be the voice of the party, I want him to figure out how to make inroads in state legislatures and governor races.

Yeah, it was really the lack of a concrete roadmap to fix the grassroots and local issues that bothered me.

 

[Blader]

I guess I liked how Ellison came off in that interview more than you guys did, and thought his example of how he drove up turnout in his district was a heartening case study (though I haven't actually checked out his claim yet). I was bothered by his total dodge on the full-time vs. part-time chair issue, though.

 

[thefro]

The content of the interview bothered me the most. He focused of the easiest problem to fix, the message. Everything else was vague platitudes. I don't want the DNC chair to be the voice of the party, I want him to figure out how to make inroads in state legislatures and governor races.

Yeah, I think he's best suited to focus on messaging and maybe reforming the DNC to start. I don't see a big plan from him for everything else yet.

You could have Ellison as chair and Dean as vice-chair (but really running everything day to day) so it's really just semantics depending on how you want to set it up. But I think someone needs to be running the show FT.

 

[boiled goose]

Many here now pushing for Dean... have we learned nothing? The politician turned insider lobbyist who pushed for Clinton despite the votes of members from his own PAC?

The man is out of touch with the country...

 

[Cesare Borgia]

Sure, let's agree that Dean shouldn't get any credit for the DNC's success. Now let's look at what happened after he left.

Senate and Governor are statewide races but the Dem's had outsized losses in Governor races compared to the Senate. This is a party priority issue.

Interestingly state legislature losses correlate with the loss of the house. It's almost as if ignoring state legislatures allowed the GOP to dominate and gerrymander.

No one ignores state legislatures, outside of democrat voters of course. I hate to sound like a broken record but it bears repeating over and over. The 2006 democrat victories were inevitable. I don't think people here remember how toxic Bush was, how fired up the democrat base was, unions, etc etc. Blood was in the water. Likewise Obama was very unpopular in 2010 (although not as unpopular as Bush) and the economy was bad. The republican wave was also inevitable. Who was the RNC chairman at the time? Michael Steele, who surely no one would call a political genius.

Midterms rarely go well for the party in power, especially not when things aren't going well. In 2014 the economy was fine but we were in the middle of media driven hysteria over Ebola and ISIS. The president refused to panic and was crucified for it. Democrats ran away and the media whipped up a frenzy. The result? Another bad midterm. Never mind that Ebola was handled perfectly and ISIS is still not a threat to the US - what people perceive matters more than reality.

You cannot blame midterm losses on a party committee, especially when nearly every post in this thread displays a blatant ignorance of what the committee even is, what it does, recent political history, etc etc etc. People don't even know what the DNC chairman does yet believe Keith Ellison is surely the man for the job because Bernie Sanders says so. Give me a break.

Gerrymandering is not even the biggest problem here. The problem is the fact that minority voters, who tend to lean democrat, are often clumped in urban areas/cities, whereas white republican leaning voters tend to be...everywhere else.

 

[The Technomancer]

The content of the interview bothered me the most. He focused of the easiest problem to fix, the message. Everything else was vague platitudes. I don't want the DNC chair to be the voice of the party, I want him to figure out how to make inroads in state legislatures and governor races.

This is exactly my concern, and why I'm not sure if he's the right fit for this specific position

 

[Effect]

Many here now pushing for Dean... have we learned nothing? The politician turned insider lobbyist who pushed for Clinton despite the votes of members from his own PAC?

The man is out of touch with the country...

You do need someone that can handle the actual mechanics of the job though. It's not just about a message but about doing actual leg work. This is why people say regardless of who gets the position they need to devote their full attention to it. Experience at leading an organization like this with some success should not be ignored or thought a negative. That's stupid thinking. I'm not saying Dean should get it. Purity test though are stupid.

 

[Totakeke]

Many here now pushing for Dean... have we learned nothing? The politician turned insider lobbyist who pushed for Clinton despite the votes of members from his own PAC?

The man is out of touch with the country...

Can I ask for more information?

"Politician turned insider lobbyist"
Please describe how this is bad.

"pushed for Clinton"
Please describe how this is bad.

"despite the votes of members from his PAC"
Please describe how this is bad.

 

[boiled goose]

You do need someone that can handle the actual mechanics of the job though. It's not just about a message but about doing actual leg work. This is why people say regardless of who gets the position they need to devote their full attention to it. Experience at leading an organization like this with some success should not be ignored or thought a negative. That's stupid thinking. I'm not saying Dean should get it. Purity test though are stupid.

Agree with capacity. Which experience helps but is not necessary. Nothing to do with a "purity test".

Can I ask for more information?

"Politician turned insider lobbyist"
Please describe how this is bad.

"pushed for Clinton"
Please describe how this is bad.

"despite the votes of members from his PAC"
Please describe how this is bad.

Please describe how the approach to politics that resulted in Democrats losing the house, senate, presidency, supreme court, state legislatures, and governors isn't bad.

 

[Byakuya769]

This Keeping it 1600 interview is not a good look for Ellison. Unless we're just in the age of endless rambling being political savvy.

 

[Totakeke]

Please describe how the approach to politics that resulted in Democrats losing the house, senate, presidency, supreme court, state legislatures, and governors isn't bad.

Huh? What specifically are you talking about?

 

[The Technomancer]

This Keeping it 1600 interview is not a good look for Ellison. Unless we're just in the age of endless rambling being political savvy.

That interview was honestly disappointing to me, on just a personal political level.

 

[Blader]

Please describe how the approach to politics that resulted in Democrats losing the house, senate, presidency, supreme court, state legislatures, and governors isn't bad.

A party chair is vastly different from someone running for office. DWS was not a bad chair because she was an establishment politician, she was a bad chair because she neglected building up the party on a state and local level and leveraged those resources for her own benefit.

I'm not totally sold on, or dismissive of, Ellison but how can you deny Dean's actual, real life, proven track record in overseeing Dem wave elections?

 

[Sinfamy]

A party chair is vastly different from someone running for office. DWS was not a bad chair because she was an establishment politician, she was a bad chair because she neglected building up the party on a state and local level and leveraged those resources for her own benefit.

I'm not totally sold on, or dismissive of, Ellison but how can you deny Dean's actual, real life, proven track record in overseeing Dem wave elections?

Because 2016 Dean is not 2004 Dean.
Look up Dentons.

 

[PBY]

This Keeping it 1600 interview is not a good look for Ellison. Unless we're just in the age of endless rambling being political savvy.

Right?

Honestly, I had little concept of who this dude was before this, and he didn't meet my expectations.