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Rockstar warns: don't install GTA5 Xbox 360 "play" disc -

B

bj00rn_

Banned
Yup, the more I think about it the less an issue this becomes. The DF example was worst case: intro changes locations instantly, and besides, if it's a problem just install it to an USB drive or an external HDD.

So I take back my earlier outburst :)
 
P

popo

Member
All you claiming it as a design choice.

If so, you would think rockstar would have mentioned it way in advance - like they did with the mandatory install. If the advice is not in the game manual or part of the game then there will be problems for the 90% of buyers who never read game sites.
 
Pjsprojects

Pjsprojects

Member
Surely this could either shorten the life of the DVD drive or with the extra heat kill the Xbox.

Need to wait and see what the PSN or PC version runs & looks like.
 
Arun1910

Arun1910

Member
360 looks slightly better than the PS3 from those screens, however when are you gonna be looking at a palm tree that close? From a distance they probably look the same if you don't zoom in.

I have a PS3 and 360 but am still going for the PSN digital download due to the disc tray on my PS3 AND 360 being as loud as an airplane.
 
F

FlyinJ

Douchebag. Yes, me.
notoriousKTR said:
Yes, because it is in the optimal sequence. In other words, when you install two discs separately, it is treated as two different sources. But when you digital download, it treated as one source.
Click to expand...

That's not the case.

GTA5 can use both the maximum bandwidth on the HDD as well as the maximum bandwidth on the disc drive at the same time. This creates a lot more bandwidth than just using the HDD alone.

In that case, using a pure digital install on either the 360 or PS3 will not give you this advantage, thus creating pop-in.
 
P

Palette Swap

Member
notoriousKTR said:
Yes, because it is in the optimal sequence. In other words, when you install two discs separately, it is treated as two different sources. But when you digital download, it treated as one source.
Click to expand...
I'm utterly out of my depth here but isn't this assuming this optimal sequence from the HDD exists in the first place?
My point isn't on the possibility of optimizing itself but on reaching that optimal point where streaming from the HDD alone isn't any more bottlenecked than streaming from 2 sources.

I'm not saying this is wrong, just that there's a certain leap here that doesn't look so obvious to this layman.
 
Arun1910

Arun1910

Member
FlyinJ said:
That's not the case.

GTA5 can use both the maximum bandwidth on the HDD as well as the maximum bandwidth on the disc drive at the same time. This creates a lot more bandwidth than just using the HDD alone.

In that case, using a pure digital install on either the 360 or PS3 will not give you this advantage, thus creating pop-in.
Click to expand...

That depends if Rockstar optimized the digital version though.
 
V

ViciousDS

Banned
Palette Swap said:
I'm utterly out of my depth here but isn't this assuming this optimal sequence from the HDD exists in the first place?
My point isn't on the possibility of optimizing itself but on reaching that optimal point where streaming from the HDD alone isn't any more bottlenecked than streaming from 2 sources.

I'm not saying this is wrong, just that there's a certain leap here that doesn't look so obvious to this layman.
Click to expand...

This, last time I checked only so much data is going to be able to transfer between the HDD and the rest of the system, meaning once it hits peak its going to start hitting spots where textures won't load until enough bandwidth becomes available to load again. Meaning its going to bottle on the Digital version just because how much data is needed to run this game just off that 5200rpm drive. Now, what I wonder is how much a SDD or even a 7200rpm drive will play in the role of this game.


Unless they really optimized how the data is transferred or read.
 
Pjsprojects

Pjsprojects

Member
ViciousDS said:
didn't ever kill my PS3 which is still the launch day one.......
Click to expand...

Was really on about Xbox models as to me they seem to use low quality parts compaired to PS3. Howeve with what your saying does this mean some past PS3 games have used the disc spinning all the time and hd running as well?
 
N

Novak

Member
Oh well ... I better go ask neighbours if it's ok I play GTA after 10pm. I dont want police on my door for being too loud ;)

Hopefully it will work by installing data on hdd and play disc to usb stick. It should unless usb and hdd share bandwidth.
 
V

ViciousDS

Banned
Pjsprojects said:
Was really on about Xbox models as to me they seem to use low quality parts compaired to PS3. Howeve with what your saying does this mean some past PS3 games have used the disc spinning all the time and hd running as well?
Click to expand...

A LOT of the early PS3 games used HD installs for textures as well as the BD-Drive including some already being near 4-6GB........and yes they all use the HDD in conjunction with the blu-ray drive. Main reason was because the BD Drive was slower than the 360's DVD drive and that's also another reason why almost every single 360 game didn't need any install to run the game. (A few games needed HD textures installed but not many.) If I'm correct I think GTA V is the only 360 game the requires a mandatory install to even play the game.
 
J

JackAubrey

Member
I suggest folks with the X360 version try installing both disks and just see how they find it.

I've really not noticed a problem. Perhaps I'll run into something when flying a plane quickly. But so far, no problem at all.
 
B

Bowler

Member
ViciousDS said:
A LOT of the early PS3 games used HD installs for textures as well as the BD-Drive including some already being near 4-6GB........and yes they all use the HDD in conjunction with the blu-ray drive. Main reason was because the BD Drive was slower than the 360's DVD drive and that's also another reason why almost every single 360 game didn't need any install to run the game. (A few games needed HD textures installed but not many.) If I'm correct I think GTA V is the only 360 game the requires a mandatory install to even play the game.
Click to expand...

Halo 4
 
A

Alpende

Member
But then my box becomes loud. I'll try it without installing it at first and if the noise annoys me I'll install it anyway.
 
HoodWinked

HoodWinked

Gold Member
i wonder if you install the data disc on the hdd. then the game disc on a flash drive if it will use the southbridge bandwidth from the usb and sata separately.
 
Portugeezer

Portugeezer

Member
Why would this be?

Can they read from disc and HDD at the same time to get better read speed?

If not it's just a fucking bullshit annoyance.
 
notoriousKTR

notoriousKTR

Member
FlyinJ said:
That's not the case.

GTA5 can use both the maximum bandwidth on the HDD as well as the maximum bandwidth on the disc drive at the same time. This creates a lot more bandwidth than just using the HDD alone.

In that case, using a pure digital install on either the 360 or PS3 will not give you this advantage, thus creating pop-in.
Click to expand...

I am not talking about bandwidth. Talking about access time. Two different things.

Palette Swap said:
I'm utterly out of my depth here but isn't this assuming this optimal sequence from the HDD exists in the first place?
My point isn't on the possibility of optimizing itself but on reaching that optimal point where streaming from the HDD alone isn't any more bottlenecked than streaming from 2 sources.

I'm not saying this is wrong, just that there's a certain leap here that doesn't look so obvious to this layman.
Click to expand...

The retail disc version of the game is designed to read two different sources of data from two different medias at the same time. But when you install both discs on the same media, the 360 still treats it as two even though they are the same game. Therefore the 360 is reading two different sources of data, from the same media at the same time. That's where the problem is.

Also, DF updated there Youtube comment:

UPDATE: we can confirm that the problem goes away if you install the play disc to a USB flash drive, leaving the hard drive free for the mandatory install.
Click to expand...

So my point is proven true! ;)
 
B

Bsigg12

Member
EuropeOG said:
Why would this be?

Can they read from disc and HDD at the same time to get better read speed?

If not it's just a fucking bullshit annoyance.
Click to expand...

That's what it sounds like they're doing. It makes sense when there are more pop ins when you install everything to the hdd rather than pulling it off the disc and HDD.
 
adamsapple

adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
StuBurns said:
The trees in the last one are strange. The closer they are to the camera, the more they look like they're identical assets, but further back, the 360 version looks like it has greater geometry on the trees. Maybe it's just the AA solution on 360 leaves more jaggies in sub-pixel geometry. It's hard to tell, they're compressed to fuck.
Click to expand...

Skyrim also had it where the PS3 version featured lesser branches in trees, foliage etc.

also, copying this from the other thread.

vsvnsfx.gif


Now I guess we can also attest the comments about the 360 version having some more notable pop-in to the install. Considering this is a case where R* are utilizing bandwidth between the DVD and HDD, I doubt this is something that will be fixed with a patch unlike the Skyrim texture bug.

Would love to see comparisons with the game installed to a USB or a portable HDD being run via the USB port on the 360 in conjunction with the disc 1 install on an on-board official HDD.
 
L

louiedog

Member
notoriousKTR said:
Also, DF updated there Youtube comment:



So my point is proven true! ;)
Click to expand...

Ah, great. I've been trying to explain this to people since the news broke. I was just making assumptions based on how I expected the game to work, so it's nice being backed up. I'll be playing this way.

That's also 8 more GB that I won't need to clear off my HDD. Stupid proprietary drives that aren't big enough...
 
I

ironcreed

Banned
notoriousKTR said:
I am not talking about bandwidth. Talking about access time. Two different things.



The retail disc version of the game is designed to read two different sources of data from two different medias at the same time. But when you install both discs on the same media, the 360 still treats it as two even though they are the same game. Therefore the 360 is reading two different sources of data, from the same media at the same time. That's where the problem is.

Also, DF updated there Youtube comment:



So my point is proven true! ;)
Click to expand...

Truly, a gentleman and a scholar.
 
R

Rulp

Member
This is actually pretty useful advice. I have been playing it with both disks installed and the pop-in is very noticeable (driving through entirely "unloaded" areas frequently). It does not happen constantly, but enough to be annoying.

UPDATE: we can confirm that the problem goes away if you install the play disc to a USB flash drive, leaving the hard drive free for the mandatory install.
Click to expand...
Good to know. Thanks.
 
Estocolmo

Estocolmo

Member
slicedmass said:
The DVD drive provides Rockstar with an additional ~16MB/s bandwidth for streaming data to memory. Its a design choice, do as I have mentioned earlier and install the optional play disk to an external USB HDD or Memory stick.
Click to expand...

I dont have an external USB HDD but I will acquire one after reading through this thread. Any special brand you recommend buying? My alternatives are Sandisk or Kingston but what do you recommend?
 
K

killer rin

Member
bobbytkc said:
I am just throwing this out there, but I am guessing this is because the game expects the installed data is always ready to be streamed from the hdd, and installing the play disc will mean both data will compete for access.
Click to expand...
Your correct in your assumption. The Install disk is basically a bunch of HD Assets which will want to take advantage of the full Transfer speeds of the HDD to be able to improve graphics. The second you install the Play disk, the Install disk then starts to fight for the same HDD that the Play Disk is using, hence lower overall speeds and quality.

If you do as they reccomend, then the Install Disk gets full access to the drive, and assets will stream from the disk to ram as needed, this allowing for multiple transfer of required data
 
P

Palette Swap

Member
notoriousKTR said:
I am not talking about bandwidth. Talking about access time. Two different things.



The retail disc version of the game is designed to read two different sources of data from two different medias at the same time. But when you install both discs on the same media, the 360 still treats it as two even though they are the same game. Therefore the 360 is reading two different sources of data, from the same media at the same time. That's where the problem is.
Click to expand...
Don't take it the wrong way but it doesn't answer my questions at all.
To put it more simply: how can you be so certain streaming from a single optimized source can lead to the same performance as streaming from two sources, without any kind of bottlenecking on the way?


So my point is proven true! ;)
Click to expand...
Uh, no. It just proves what's been assumed since the beginning.about the performance issues.
"Having trouble streaming from a single source when two are expected" doesn't imply "by optimization, a strictly equivalent result to streaming from two sources can be achieved with one".

Again, I'm not saying your conclusion is wrong, I have zero idea, just that the steps on the way to this conclusion don't seem trivial at all and the way you present them obfuscates the issue.

But yeah, great news about using USB.
 
F

flyinpiranha

Member
UPDATE: we can confirm that the problem goes away if you install the play disc to a USB flash drive, leaving the hard drive free for the mandatory install.
Click to expand...

Sweet, I love me some better foilage and if a cheap USB thumb drive takes care of the loud disk issue, the 360 version seems the way to go.
 
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