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[Proelite]

The train example also lacks an important feature - you not only deliever people from A to B you also take people back from B to A.

So the faster but smaller train not only bringts 2000 people he also takes 1500 people back in the same time the bigger but faster bringts 1000. However depending on the train speed and size that could be optimized and changed so the bigger train is "better".

I do believe that Sony did their homework as did Microsoft but both had different goals and scenarios in mind. Which console in the end will have the better setup is decided over the next couple of years. If Naughty Dog really had the choice between less and fast RAM or more and slower I trust their decision any day over 1000 Cryteks. Microsoft is a big software company currently struggling with phones, tablets and their cash cow Windows 8 but still I do trust them they will do the right thing aswell but from a different perspective. If they want to take over the living room from other gadgets as an extra source of income maybe some things have to be sacrificied in the gaming department.

They're not going to sacrifice anything in the gaming department since gaming is one of the few industry that they're in where their competitors are weaker than them. There is not a competitor like Apple, Google or Amazon in gaming yet.

 

[Gemüsepizza]

They're not going to sacrifice anything in the gaming department since gaming is one of the few industry that they're in where their competitors are weaker than them. There is not a competitor like Apple, Google or Amazon in gaming yet.

That would also be an argument for not aiming for the absolut best tech possible. Why spend so much when you have a comfortable position on the market? It makes more sense to optimize for profit.

 

[systemfehler]

They're not going to sacrifice anything in the gaming department since gaming is one of the few industry that they're in where their competitors are weaker than them. There is not a competitor like Apple, Google or Amazon in gaming yet.

No but if you really want to push cable boxes, media centers, etc. out of the living room and offer a one-fits-all solution and stream to Windows 8 phones/tablets you might for example use more but slower RAM for your box to work as intended. Even MS has a budget and constraints when it comes to board complexity, schedules and power usage.

 

[mrklaw]

No but if you really want to push cable boxes, media centers, etc. out of the living room and offer a one-fits-all solution and stream to Windows 8 phones/tablets you might for example use more but slower RAM for your box to work as intended. Even MS has a budget and constraints when it comes to board complexity, schedules and power usage.

true. You might need more working space, but you don't need fast ram for that kind of thing. So DDR3 would be fine for that. Maybe that factored into MS' planning. They realised they needed around 8GB to give enough headroom for media stuff etc, and that simply became too expensive for GDDR5.

Although TBH if they are DDR3/esram thats basically copying their approach from 360 so maybe they were happy enough with the balance there.

 

[specialguy]

That would also be an argument for not aiming for the absolut best tech possible. Why spend so much when you have a comfortable position on the market? It makes more sense to optimize for profit.

there are so many people who just desperately want the ps4 to be more powerful than 720...

thats why i find it so funny that on any game message board you cant say gfx are super important without being shouted down...

people actions dont match their words.

anyways i'm still gonna say ps4-heads will be disappointed, it wont outpower durango by much if any in practical terms i think.

look what lherre just said yesterday!

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=46551080&postcount=274

In my opinion both machines will be very close, with some details in favor for each one, but I think we will have a ps360 situation again with 2 machines very close.

1.8 vs 1.2 teraflops is likely accurate, but there are so many other factors that will go into the final results on screen than one narrow, albeit crucial, parameter.

I'm just happy the machines wont be ALMOST EXACTLY THE SAME as PS3 and 360 were...different flops, different RAM, etc. Should be more fun.

 

[jeff_rigby]

Rumors Xbox3 won't support Blu-Ray.

The source of the rumour:
http://www.thenextxbox.com/2013/01/...gainst-blu-ray-movie-playback-with-xbox-next/

It's not really a rumour though, just speculation.

Jesus Christ.

This just follows Microsoft OS choices also. No codecs for DVD or blu-ray in MS Operating Systems as they cost money for each. There also was a judgement that they can't include Java with the OS (you have to install it yourself). Java and h.264 are necessary for a blu-ray player.

In any case Mpeg2, h.264 and soon h.265 will be needed for IPTV streaming so if you support the former you can support DVD, Blu-Ray and 4K Blu-Ray.

Both Microsoft and Sony want their next game console to be an indispensable part of the living room. So DVD, Blu-ray, 4K blu-ray, IPTV streaming, Skype, Voice and Gesture recognition with a common standard, common set of apps that also interface with Skype (Contact list, Calendar, Journal), apps, XTV standard common to the industry which means RVU support at a minimum and likely both will support HDMI pass-through. Both will comply with international standards for power modes for all they support.

This means a large chunk of the PS4 and Xbox 3 will be identical hardware with some identical software, WebGL and OpenGL support not DirectX or Direct Compute being the biggest obvious change. XTV apps were XHTML = Java + HTML 4.01 with OpenVG supporting XML. This will change to HTML5 (WebGL & WebCL), no Java required.

XTV will also be supported by ATSC 2.0 which uses the blu-ray codec. After March 2013 there will be digital channels that only the latest smart TVs can access or a PS3, PS4 or Xbox3. These digital channels will support 1080P and 3-D as well as extended features via a web browser. So in the short term you will need a Google TV box, a smart TV or a game console to access the new content. This along with the must have new features in game consoles will make having one a must and I expect a price point that allows impulse buying.

A large chunk of the PS4 and Xbox 3 will be identical hardware = 1 Jaguar CPU package turned on and the 8280 2 CU GPU on but the second GPU turned off. This makes XTV always on and IPTV streaming a 10W or less feature. This part of the PS4 may be called Thebe and hidden in Kryptos. Thebe should also contain the WideIO memory and Transposer common to both game consoles. This is why Thebe needed to be completed first and Oban is named for a large blank Japanese gold coin with bumps and needed to be made and tested before Thebe. You can not support a low power mode with GDDR5 memory that needs 40 watts running a game and 10+ watts even at a slower clock speed in addition to the less than 10 watts (5 watts are burned by the second GPU even when off) the rest of Thebe needs. Stacked DDR4 memory in low power mode will burn less than a watt.

There is speculation in the above but it's informed speculation taking into account the big picture which is sadly lacking in professional articles.

 

[Clay Davis]

The source of the rumour:
http://www.thenextxbox.com/2013/01/...gainst-blu-ray-movie-playback-with-xbox-next/

It's not really a rumour though, just speculation.



Jesus Christ.

this seems unlikely, but then they did lock out dvd playback on their old xbox, so who knows. I think it's bunk, they want their machine to be a definite media player as well as a gaming machine, blu ray playback is vital to achieving that goal.

 

[derFeef]

Rumors Xbox3 won't support Blu-Ray.

This just follows Microsoft OS choices also. No codecs for DVD or blu-ray in MS Operating Systems as they cost money for each. There also was a judgement that they can't include Java with the OS (you have to install it yourself). Java and h.264 are necessary for a blu-ray player.

In any case Mpeg2, h.264 and soon h.265 will be needed for IPTV streaming so if you support the former you can support DVD, Blu-Ray and 4K Blu-Ray.

Both Microsoft and Sony want their next game console to be an indispensable part of the living room. So DVD, Blu-ray, 4K blu-ray, IPTV streaming, Skype, Voice and Gesture recognition with a common standard, common set of apps that also interface with Skype (Contact list, Calendar, Journal), apps, XTV standard common to the industry which means RVU support at a minimum and likely both will support HDMI pass-through. Both will comply with international standards for power modes for all they support.

No codecs because that would mean the user would be "forced" to use the WMP as dvd player and the EU would fine their ass again, thank the EU for this.

 

[drugstore_cowboy]

Would supporting Blu-ray require them to have a digital out port?

After Wii U dropped it I've been a little worried Xbox would do the same.

 

[Wynnebeck]

there are so many people who just desperately want the ps4 to be more powerful than 720...

thats why i find it so funny that on any game message board you cant say gfx are super important without being shouted down...

people actions dont match their words.

anyways i'm still gonna say ps4-heads will be disappointed, it wont outpower durango by much if any in practical terms i think.

Sounds more like the idea of the PS4>Durango has you in a tizzy. Calm down until we have some definite specs and then you can go hog wild.

 

[thuway]

Sounds more like the idea of the PS4>Durango has you in a tizzy. Calm down until we have some definite specs and then you can go hog wild.

Developers have mentioned that the Xbox has an edge. Even the original sweetvar26 rumor had the Xbox ahead. However, the inclusin of 4 GB of RAM was a recent development. I wonder how the consoles stack now, but more or less, they should be the same in multiplatform games. With the version with lesser RAM taking a hit on texture detail, but achieving a more consistent framerate.

 

[Wynnebeck]

Developers have mentioned that the Xbox has an edge. Even the original sweetvar26 rumor had the Xbox ahead. However, the inclusin of 4 GB of RAM was a recent development. I wonder how the consoles stack now, but more or less, they should be the same in multiplatform games. With the version with lesser RAM taking a hit on texture detail, but achieving a more consistent framerate.

The only thing we should be worried about for the specs is what kind of parity we will get for multiplatforms. I'd imagine the only reason Durango's specs are above PS4's is because they are trying to turn it into a multimedia box instead of just a console which would warrant the better specs.

 

[mrklaw]

Developers have mentioned that the Xbox has an edge. Even the original sweetvar26 rumor had the Xbox ahead. However, the inclusin of 4 GB of RAM was a recent development. I wonder how the consoles stack now, but more or less, they should be the same in multiplatform games. With the version with lesser RAM taking a hit on texture detail, but achieving a more consistent framerate.

but that could be down to developers seeing it first, and not knowing as much about PS4?

 

[derFeef]

The only thing we should be worried about for the specs is what kind of parity we will get for multiplatforms. I'd imagine the only reason Durango's specs are above PS4's is because they are trying to turn it into a multimedia box instead of just a console which would warrant the better specs.

Why would they need to "downgrade" it for a media box? Good hardware can do media stuff...
I don't get the logic.

 

[systemfehler]

Why would they need to "downgrade" it for a media box? Good hardware can do media stuff...
I don't get the logic.

Not really downgrade but follow different needs. A overlay display for your TV, processing various input streams, playing music, Skype, etc. don't really profit from a small amount of GDDR5 but they do profit from a large chunk of DDR3. Basicly the OS + media applications have special needs aswell which don't always go hand in hand with gaming related needs.

 

[gaming_noob]

Why is he a MS fanboy? Can you show me?

He answered your question in another thread.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=46587459&postcount=7232

read this thread...

 

[Clay Davis]

He answered your question in another thread.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=46587459&postcount=7232

post specific quotes or don't bother bringing up nonsense like this. you can't seriously expect anyone to ready 145 pages to find a few select posts.

it's ridiculous. there should be a rule that if you accuse someone of being a fanboy, you have to that back shit up with facts. this garbage of saying 'read the thread', especially when threads span 100 + pages is bs, plain and simple.

 

[Backfoggen]

You know it's new console season when journos start getting called fanboy...

Yes, 2013 will be great for console warriors.

 

[Psychotext]

it's ridiculous. there should be a rule that if you accuse someone of being a fanboy, you have to that back shit up with facts. this garbage of saying 'read the thread', especially when threads span 100 + pages is bs, plain and simple.

No-one should be calling anyone fanboys anyway...

- Console War. Obviously arguments about consoles, platforms, and publishers are going to get heated. Don't make things worse by calling out "xbots" or "ntards" or "fanboys" or "sdf" or "xdf" or insulting someone else by calling them one of those things. Clearly some people get a bit too attached, but the best thing you can do is try to improve conversation, not make it worse by dragging it down in the mud. It's also important to make sure you aren't getting too attached. If you find yourself getting super defensive about something or claiming that everyone other than you is "biased", chances are you should probably take a little break from the thread.

 

[Ninja Moomin]

Question:

Where is there even a debate about power at this point?

Both consoles:

Have been developed in the same time frame... using components from the same suppliers (AMD and IBM), targetting similar power and overall cost budgets.

Unless one of them is happy to be more expensive, or is willing to swallow a big loss, there's very little logical reason to believe that there will be anything other than nuance between the two systems?

Right?

 

[Gemüsepizza]

Some rumors indicate that Microsoft might use some of their console hardware budget for Kinect, apps and additional multimedia features, which could impact gaming performance in some way.

 

[alexandros]

it's ridiculous. there should be a rule that if you accuse someone of being a fanboy, you have to that back shit up with facts. this garbage of saying 'read the thread', especially when threads span 100 + pages is bs, plain and simple.

Indeed, accusations like that shouldn't be thrown around lightly. That said, the "Press Reset" documentary about Polygon was financed with $750,000 by Microsoft. I think people are justified to take comments from Polygon staff with a grain of salt.

 

[LukasTaves]

Question:

Where is there even a debate about power at this point?

Both consoles:

Have been developed in the same time frame... using components from the same suppliers (AMD and IBM), targetting similar power and overall cost budgets.

Unless one of them is happy to be more expensive, or is willing to swallow a big loss, there's very little logical reason to believe that there will be anything other than nuance between the two systems?

Right?

You just answered yourself

There's debate on whether Ms focus on kinect and apps may take it's toll on hardware budget, and on the other hand there's speculation sony won't be able to coupe with hardware losses and that also could affect power.

Right now we don't know if any of them is going to the best hardware they can possible build, or if they are going to make a what they think it would be a good enough console that doesn't make them bleed more money.

 

[Nachtmaer]

Question:

Where is there even a debate about power at this point?

Both consoles:

Have been developed in the same time frame... using components from the same suppliers (AMD and IBM), targetting similar power and overall cost budgets.

Unless one of them is happy to be more expensive, or is willing to swallow a big loss, there's very little logical reason to believe that there will be anything other than nuance between the two systems?

Right?

I think the general consensus at this point is that MS are adding more bells and whistles (like dedicated logic) to their design and wants to support more services out of the box. This would make the more but slower RAM compensated by EDRAM/ESRAM rumour more fitting.

Sony on the other hand seem to be going for a more straight forward design that could end up having more raw power in the end. There are also speculations about Sony going for stacked RAM on an interposer to achieve the higher bandwidth to feed the (supposedly) beefier GPU.

Nothing is certain at this point and we'll have to wait how it turns out in the long run.

 

[yurinka]

I think that if MS wants to make the 720 the center of the living room as I think they mentioned with 360 it must have BlueRay.
Related costs of playing movies wouldn't be that high so I think it will play BD movies.

 

[-ImaginaryInsider]

Rumors Xbox3 won't support Blu-Ray.

This just follows Microsoft OS choices also. No codecs for DVD or blu-ray in MS Operating Systems as they cost money for each.

And that would be a valid argument if the 360 didn't support DVD or didn't have a codec used in blu-ray.

And just to be clear, you do know there is a difference between rumors and speculation?

 

[deadlast]

I don't see why MS doesn't add all of the processing power require by the Kinect 2.0 into the kinect itself, like they did with the prototype. Then they could sell it to Xbox360 owners and 720 owners alike.

 

[JaggedSac]

I don't see why MS doesn't add all of the processing power require by the Kinect 2.0 into the kinect itself, like they did with the prototype. Then they could sell it to Xbox360 owners and 720 owners alike.

The latest rumor points to the processor being in the Kinect this time, but once again, just rumors.

 

[TheOddOne]

Editor @ CVG.

 

[syko de4d]

Editor @ CVG.

"and this was the last time anyone ever heard again from Andy Robinson..."

 

[Can Crusher]

there are so many people who just desperately want the ps4 to be more powerful than 720...

So true. It's so easy to stumble on a post that gives a thousand reasons why MS doesn't care about gamers, they are going weaker, media center box, etc etc etc and how Sony is just doing everything right.

It doesn't make sense when both companies always tried to get powerful hardware out, in their respective "times". Xbox, Ps2, Xbox 360, PS3...top of the line hardware when their released.

Somehow now, Sony will get top of the line hardware out and MS is gonna go full retard. Just cuz

 

[Mrbob]

Editor @ CVG.

Hope he doesn't sit on ths news too lest he become the next Oprah getting scooped by another story.

 

[op_ivy]

Hope he doesn't sit on ths news too lest he become the next Oprah getting scooped by another story.

wonder if tweets like that motivate other leaks to beat him to the punch.

jesus, its january. its too early for all of this, lol. lets get the specs out of the way so we can start seeing leaked footage of the games

 

[Reiko]

Editor @ CVG.

"Casino" movie reference for his fate:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwAw9ThDQmk

 

[GarthVaderUK]

Editor @ CVG.

CVG don't have a good record for this kind of thing, hope it's not more outlandish sensationalist nonsense.

 

[Dr. Zoidberg]

The only thing we should be worried about for the specs is what kind of parity we will get for multiplatforms. I'd imagine the only reason Durango's specs are above PS4's is because they are trying to turn it into a multimedia box instead of just a console which would warrant the better specs.

People say this but doesn't Sony want the PS4 to be the living room multimedia box as well? I don't think they are shooting for "just a console".

 

[Ninja Moomin]

People say this but doesn't Sony want the PS4 to be the living room multimedia box as well? I don't think they are shooting for "just a console".

Its the hub for delivering the Sony Entertainment Network in the living room.... people think Sony are less interested in apps and multimedia than MS? Seriously?

I love how deluded some people are when we have generational transitions.

 

[x-Lundz-x]

It would be absolutely idiotic for the next Xbox to NOT have a blu-ray drive.... How can they even claim to want to be the hub of the living room without blu-ray support this next gen?

 

[systemfehler]

Its the hub for delivering the Sony Entertainment Network in the living room.... people think Sony are less interested in apps and multimedia than MS? Seriously?

I love how deluded some people are when we have generational transitions.

There isn't less interest but less money to spend. Sony needs profit yesterday whereas MS doesn't. Sony may have "won" Europe when it comes to consoles but this territory is rather difficult for home entertainment. We don't have Hulu, Netflix, etc in every country - the US where the 360 was strong does. So I guess instead of venturing into another risky business adventure against MS, Apple, Amazon and Google it might be better to just sell consoles and hope that their TV sales pick up aswell.

If Sony and Google would team up for living room domination things would certainly look different. MS rumoured specifications look like a good gaming machine with some adjustments into the software and living room realm without being worse or even compromising anything related to gaming - it is just a different strategy.

 

[PopcornMegaphone]

Some rumors indicate that Microsoft might use some of their console hardware budget for Kinect, apps and additional multimedia features, which could impact gaming performance in some way.

The credible rumors are stating the consoles are about equal in power. Most of the "hardware budget" concerns are conjecture.

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

AWW YEAH!

 

[dead monkey uk]

AWW YEAH!

So this scoop is so interesting he will not post it at the weekend!

For that reason I am out (one for the UK readers)

 

[dragonelite]

Xbox 720 scoop.
It haz gamez.

 

[GarthVaderUK]

So this scoop is so interesting he will not post it at the weekend!

For that reason I am out (one for the UK readers)

Monday scoop for max hitz.

 

[Majanew]

Xbox 720 scoop.
It haz gamez.

That look better or worse than Orbis versions!

 

[derFeef]

Who is this Andy Robinson.
edit: ah...

 

[phosphor112]

Monday scoop for max hitz.

Typically... to water the plants after the weekend drought.

 

[dead monkey uk]

Monday scoop for max hitz.

Would you sit on a scoop over the weekend. Good chance someone leaks it on GAF before then

 

[GarthVaderUK]

Would you sit on a scoop over the weekend. Good chance someone leaks it on GAF before then

Hell no! Wouldn't be surprised if CVG did it though, as they already have that 'new controller for PS4' story up today.

 

[mrklaw]

So he doesn't have a new scoop, he's waiting for one.