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Rumour: New species/details for ME4 from BW's private fan panel [Content deleted]
- Thread starter EatChildren
- Start date
I don't know what's wrong behind the concept "have a big world and 'mundane' conflict". I'm not saying we should play as farmer in Dragon Age, or Omega bar bouncer, but why RPG games with big world as much as Dragon Age and Mass Effect must have end-of-the-world-as-we-know-it plot. World as scope is too ambitous and would be horrible, writing nightmare if they still insist that player agency is important. More 'mundane' conflict could have more benefit from player agency. The effect would only limited to small numbers of people, so the writing much easier to pull off. Also 'mundane' conflict could be interesting at a time. I'm having more fun from reading the galactic headline on the main menu when it still online than from playing most of the side quest. Small scope doesn't make a game less interesting, since it will fall down to executions.
The choices are: drop player agency if they still insist keeping the plot, if not the quality of the writing would again horrendous and player's agency falls flat because the immense numbers of the consequences; or they could opt for smaller scope, which makes the writing process much easier and player agencies have more feeling to it.
This what makes me so incredibly hyped for Star Wars 1313, a Star Wars game about bounty hunter until it got cancelled
You pretty much nailed it.
It frustrates me how so many RPGs always have to be about stopping the evil bad guy from ending the world. There are so many different types of stories they could do, yet they do the same one over and over.
What's wrong with say a more personal story about a hitman or a detective investigating a conspiracy? Especially with ME, they should go in a different direction for the story. The galaxy has just seen a almighty alien species come to declare war, you can't match something like that in terms of scale.
Put me in the burnt-out-on-end-of-the-world-plots camp.
Don't know how they are going to do a sequel well without Sheppard. Just hand us a new spectre to love? It seems like they're afraid to deviate too much from the previous trilogy. I fully expect characters from the past to be hamfisted into whatever this game ends up being called.
Excited to see this game on Frostbite but I hope they spend plenty of time debugging it.
Don't know how they are going to do a sequel well without Sheppard. Just hand us a new spectre to love? It seems like they're afraid to deviate too much from the previous trilogy. I fully expect characters from the past to be hamfisted into whatever this game ends up being called.
Excited to see this game on Frostbite but I hope they spend plenty of time debugging it.
I said it 1000 times and I'll say it 1000 more times.
The next Mass Effect will allow you to play as a wide range of species. The story minus a few dialogue, missions and maybe even potential squadmates will change depending on your race.
The story goes "You are a new spectre, there are some asshole terrorists wrecking havoc across the galaxy. You and your squad will scour the planets in search for these asshole terrorists and prove yourself as a spectre to the council. Maybe throw in a government/council conspiracy for added flare".
No galaxy eating machines, no godchildren, no supernova danger. Just some asshole space russians.
Alternatively I remember in the bioware forum of something like a cold war where each of the species are collecting reaper technology to create new weapons not only of destruction but of utility (like the mass relays) and you can play as a number of species and either help your respective species win the war, ally with others or try to stop the war and ensure peace. That sounds pretty epic.
The next Mass Effect will allow you to play as a wide range of species. The story minus a few dialogue, missions and maybe even potential squadmates will change depending on your race.
The story goes "You are a new spectre, there are some asshole terrorists wrecking havoc across the galaxy. You and your squad will scour the planets in search for these asshole terrorists and prove yourself as a spectre to the council. Maybe throw in a government/council conspiracy for added flare".
No galaxy eating machines, no godchildren, no supernova danger. Just some asshole space russians.
Alternatively I remember in the bioware forum of something like a cold war where each of the species are collecting reaper technology to create new weapons not only of destruction but of utility (like the mass relays) and you can play as a number of species and either help your respective species win the war, ally with others or try to stop the war and ensure peace. That sounds pretty epic.
MichaelFassbender
Member
Bring back the wanksta-trick-mobile from ME1, and I'm on board. Most fun I had in that game was doing flips in the vehicle that could not, and would not flip over.
Escape Goat
Member
Maybe you are Commander Sheppard (who didn't die or get merged with robots) and you are charged with locating the MIA Normandy. So its become a more personal goal of rescuing your friends. You go on a quest and try to retrace their steps, find they have been sold into slavery and you have to go around the galaxy rescuing them.
Adam Blade
WWKC
ME3 was so disappointing because they neutered mai waifu Jack.
Don't give a fig about any other woman.
Don't give a fig about any other woman.
shinobi602
Member
It will still be third person, we know that at least. I remember asking Yanick and making sure that it'll still retain TPS controls and he basically said that yes, it'll be in the vain of previous ME games.
ME3 was so disappointing because they neutered mai waifu Jack.
Don't give a fig about any other woman.
Try my shoes on: I went for Kelly Chambers...and now she's a hobo...and she's not even on the Normandy plaque...at least you got something!
I do not understand why people would want a sequel series for Mass Effect.
Mass Effect 3 endings change the galaxy radically, differently. No sequel can portray all 4 endings properly (plus variations, paragon and renegade Control are different).
If they choose a canon ending, they're telling many people "fuck you, we don't care about your choices". If they allow all endings but the changes are minor at most, they're telling "fuck you, your choices don't matter really". And there's pretty much zero chance they actually make all endings and choices have radical effects, the work amount would be immense.
I've heard some people oppose the idea of a prequel because choices in such wouldn't matter. Well, if either of above possibilities happens, or if save importing is not possible, your choices won't matter either.
Personally i'd prefer a new scifi series, or a Mass Effect reboot/alternate universe game, or some such, similar starting point as ME1 but spin it differently (probably without Reapers).
Not that i'd probably buy either one, i have zero faith in BioWare after SWTOR and ME3 (and Dragon Age world, which is so damn boring).
Mass Effect 3 endings change the galaxy radically, differently. No sequel can portray all 4 endings properly (plus variations, paragon and renegade Control are different).
If they choose a canon ending, they're telling many people "fuck you, we don't care about your choices". If they allow all endings but the changes are minor at most, they're telling "fuck you, your choices don't matter really". And there's pretty much zero chance they actually make all endings and choices have radical effects, the work amount would be immense.
I've heard some people oppose the idea of a prequel because choices in such wouldn't matter. Well, if either of above possibilities happens, or if save importing is not possible, your choices won't matter either.
Personally i'd prefer a new scifi series, or a Mass Effect reboot/alternate universe game, or some such, similar starting point as ME1 but spin it differently (probably without Reapers).
Not that i'd probably buy either one, i have zero faith in BioWare after SWTOR and ME3 (and Dragon Age world, which is so damn boring).
It is easier, I think, relatively. But the actual main problem here isn't about dramatic, variety, or deepness of the conflict, but how Bioware's vision of their game potentially hindered by their own writing of the plot. By putting a live of a race, or prosperity of a nation to player choices, that would put a lot weight to the player's action. We would think that we have the most right thing and proud of that choices. But what would happened if Bioware decided to create a sequel? Sooner or later, even if they have remote setting from the previous installment, the consequences of our choices would make appearance considering the scope. But with save-the-world plot, the scope wouldn't be just limited to one instances of consequences. There will be chain of it that ultimately shape a different world.
For example in DAO, I let Prince Bhelen take the throne, and help Dagna to get her to the Circle of Magi. By the epilogues, we know that The Chantry would ultimately lead a Exalted March against the Dwarves. But I side with the mage both in Circle of Magi and Dragon Age 2, which effectively would make The Chantry vastly crippled. What would happened to Orzammar then? Is it destroyed or will it be able to withstand the attack? Considering how Orzammar is the only Great Thaig left, it would impossible to not mention it, while at the same time, showing the consequences of our action would be a near impossible task considering the numbers of choices (mixes).
They could of course, set a canon, but wouldn't it be undo all the player's choice that they said would have a great weight? Isn't that like they lick their own spit if they took "word of god" route? This potential writing nightmare shouldn't be there in the first if they took smaller scope for the game, as the fate of an individual or group wouldn't overlap too much. Unless of course if the individual or the group have major place in the universe, it would do the same.
Stranger in strange land is more about culture, meeting new and weid people, go to exotic places rather than saving galaxy, dealing with extremist racist group bullshit. I hope they really strife to achive that.
scarybore
Member
You got the impression they were basass despite their claim to fame being that they caught a bad cold from the other species?
I would certainly like for them to appear in the new game, even if it's just a small role, providing the Reapers didn't bone them and the next game is a sequel. They are avian based like the Turians so perhaps they could be the first unknown alien mentioned. Not sure I would want another fully suited alien species though unless Bioware nails the design, but maybe with access to the other races tech they can get past their medical problems.
The most uprising thing about thing I read about that news is that people seem to still believe in Indoctrination Theory. Christ, what more does BioWare need to do to prove to you that it's wrong and nothing more than a pipe dream made up by crazed fans who couldn't accept the horror that were the endings.
All I want is a sequel that in no way builds off the ending of ME3, just state that the Reapers are done with and move on.
They already did that with the endings, might as well do it now to fix the broken piece of shit they created from them.
All I want is a sequel that in no way builds off the ending of ME3, just state that the Reapers are done with and move on.
They already did that with the endings, might as well do it now to fix the broken piece of shit they created from them.
Re-do ME3 then. Don't continue from the state the game left the 'verse.
EDIT i don't have that much problem with the ending themselves in ME3, but rather they're unlocked and foreshadowed. I mean, lack of foreshadowing. They just happen with a Deus Ex Machina... hell, the machine itself wouldn't be so bad if it had been foreshadowed and explained better.
Drew Karphysyn is gone, and I approach every new ME game rumor with massive negativity.
As much as I want that is never going to happen. The best we can hope for is a new trilogy or sequel that's set far enough in the future so that the endings can be totally disregarded and we can pretend like they never happened.
Is it the best solution? No, I fucking wanted to end the Reaper War with Shepard in an ending that made sense and took some account of the choices I made over three games. However, this solution can at least save what is left of the ME series and at least attempt to build something great again.
Just sweep the stuff under the rug?
It is just as bad as anything else. Hell, it is almost worse, at least if they choose a canon ending there will be some consistency.
Ignoring that they're building upon a shit foundation will lead only to more shit.
The canon endings are all horrible save for maybe Destroy, and they are also too diverse. Plus, the entire explanation for the Reapers is retarded. Again, the best thing to do besides actually re-doing ME3 is to sweep it all under the rug and pretend it never happened. Right now the series needs a hard reboot, we're past the point of minor surgery.
Reboot, sure. Meaning, alternate universe/new universe, NOT the same universe in the future.
Or a prequel, though arguably knowing everything well end up in shit make one pretty stupid, but at least it wouldn't ignore or choose a ME3 ending.
Also, Destroy ending is bad, press button and mightiest military juggernaut there is is gone, Control makes much, much more sense, after all there the controller is merely modified.
Destroy would make more sense if it only destroyed Reapers by sending a self-destruct command to them...
Winterfang
Banned
Synthesis is the only true ending. Come at me haters.
The whole story is already gimped the moment they switched out Drew Karpyshyn from Lead Writer position. The whole notion or focus of the universe is changing from what I saw in ME1. I still have the similar notion in ME2 though since Drew still actively involved with writing for the game. By ME3 I already know that the stuff was written by different a guy.
The worst, most nonsensical ending there is. You ever thought about it? It is utter shit, not to mention being something of an ethical abomination.
Even after all the hubub about the ending, this game will still sell like hotcakes.
Please, never play Deus Ex.
Please, never play Deus Ex.
Which one? Didn't manage to finish HR (and i know its endings are shit, but then it is a prequel).
Original? Too old and unbalanced (Dragon's Tooth lol) for my tastes, and cyberpunk is not my genre really.
EDIT apologies for ranting/derailing. Just started wondering why people would want a sequel (which is sort of relevant to the thread)
Marvel
could never
There's no need of a "hard reboot". Like Liara's father said : jump ahead a few hundred years and no one remembers what quarians looked like without the suit. History becomes legend, legend becomes myth and some things which should not be forgotten are lost.
That alone fixes most of the issues with Control and Destroy. Synthesis is most likely dead and buried considering how ridiculous it was.
That alone fixes most of the issues with Control and Destroy. Synthesis is most likely dead and buried considering how ridiculous it was.
Human Revolution. If you think the Synthesis ending to ME3 is a moral abomination, one of the endings in HR will probably give you a pulmonary edema.
Ethics are the least of Synthesis ending problems really. The exact problem with it is that Shepard forces what basically amounts to trans/post-humanism/alienism upon everyone, don't have any problem with transhumanism itself.
When exactly does she said that? ME1 or ME3?
Mass Effect
Member
What? Screw these people. If anything get rid of the humans. There is exactly one interesting human in the entire Mass Effect series and he's now dead. Okay, two if you count Conrad Verner.
Exactly. I just hope they don't introduce another "end of all things as we know it" plot. Focus on the smaller conflicts, let us explore Homeworlds and major colonies more in-depth instead of two small areas or for some small, linear, and scripted area only to advance the story. More uncharted worlds, more side-missions like from ME2 and less like from 3.
What? Screw these people. If anything get rid of the humans. There is exactly one interesting human in the entire Mass Effect series and he's now dead. Okay, two if you count Conrad Verner.
Fiction is always about human, so I guess its impossible to get rid of us.
That gifs pretty much confirmed it that Mako is capable soloing the whole Reaper fleet.
Night Hunter
Banned
.
So how is it any different from other RPGs with multiple entries? Nobody complained back in the KOTOR days. You pick a canon ending and move on. Save game transfer is the exception, not the rule. Plus with Mass Effect you actually have the possibility to go far into the future.
MrTroubleMaker
Member
lol yeah, mako forever! \o/
.
With KOTOR, does they promised the game would make the player's choice have actual weight?
Honest question, since I don't even have internet connection back then.
Will watch later but i'll note i'm pro-transhumanism, the only issue i have with it is that if it is forced upon people, directly. Cultural/other pressure to become transhuman is another matter, as long as the decision is ultimately voluntarily made (of course, if you have to become a cyborg due to economic reasons, was it voluntary really? Complex issue, so nothing more about it now).
KOTOR is a Star Wars game, so it was always going to have its light side ending as canonical. And it wasn't originally a series (and KOTOR 2 is made by Obisidian...)
And most RPGs are not long series of direct sequels. Mass Efffect is, which makes the player choice and continuity so much more important.
Or should've made it important.
SkullHydra
Member
This man is correct.
ArchedThunder
Banned
Please be real, PLEASE BE REAL!
Night Hunter
Banned
No, they didn't promise that. But they also never promised that save games would transfer through all Mass Effect games ever made. They promised it for Shepard's Trilogy, if they delivered on that promise is another question.
Okay, Star Wars may not be the best example. But my point still stands. Nowhere did they promise that the ending choice would transfer over to the next game. And let's be honest, even if they did promise that, at some point it would become impossible. With every new game the variables would increase exponentially.
You got the impression they were basass despite their claim to fame being that they caught a bad cold from the other species?
I would certainly like for them to appear in the new game, even if it's just a small role, providing the Reapers didn't bone them and the next game is a sequel. They are avian based like the Turians so perhaps they could be the first unknown alien mentioned. Not sure I would want another fully suited alien species though unless Bioware nails the design, but maybe with access to the other races tech they can get past their medical problems.
Diseases didn't make the Krogan or Quarians any less badass. Raloi where pretty damn smart, they totally halted all technological advancements and blew up their satellites to pretend they weren't advanced enough to be reaped.
They promised a trilogy where stuff affects the latter games, and that did partially happen. ME4 was never talked about nor promised but if they make one, it should take account the first trilogy or be a hard reboot. A far-future sequel is a stupid compromise solution that doesn't do either option satisfactorily.
And what i was wondering is why people (no BW but players) want a sequel, especially since some have complained a prequel wouldn't have anything meaningful going on, when the same argument can be used for anything else than a continuation of the series with save-file importing and the decisions being important.
As i said, proper sequel taking account ME3 endings won't happen due to the amount of work required.
There's no way people would be actually satisfied with a sequel despite wanting one.
Ultimately, for all my ranting, i have to admit i don't really care. Too jaded to have any optimism or hype, too betrayed to buy another ME.
"All weapons to level X, only $9.99"
Night Hunter
Banned
Why? Because you think people aren't smart enough to know what a canon ending is? And why is a far future sequel a compromise? I would definitely take this option over a direct continuation because it allows them to actually make something new and interesting. A lot can happen in 100+ years.