plagiarize
Banned
I'm a brit who lives in America.
I was prepared to call myself an American if Clinton had won.
Now... well now I'm worried about getting my green card renewed.
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Scottish government apparently preparing to demand new referendum
- Thread starter Royal_Phalanx
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I'm a brit who lives in America.
I was prepared to call myself an American if Clinton had won.
Now... well now I'm worried about getting my green card renewed.
I was waiting in particular for your reaction. It did not disappoint.
The United Kingdom can Brexit the EU.
Scotland can leave the UK and join the EU.
Northern Ireland can leave the UK and reunite with Ireland and backdoor their way into the EU.
England and Wales can join the EU (together or apart, whatever). They're no longer the UK so Brexit no longer matters.
Tada! I just solved centuries of UK problems.
Scotland can leave the UK and join the EU.
Northern Ireland can leave the UK and reunite with Ireland and backdoor their way into the EU.
England and Wales can join the EU (together or apart, whatever). They're no longer the UK so Brexit no longer matters.
Tada! I just solved centuries of UK problems.
The EU is weaker without the UK. Of course, the reverse is also true.
Tschüss.
-Plasma Reus-
Service guarantees member status
Fair points.
It seems as though the good thing here would be that both the EU and Scotland wouldnt be working to fuck each other over at the very least.
Ha.
I either stay here and be governed by that cunt May, or move to America and be governed by that cunt Trump. Moving to Scotland is a nice in-between. I'd prefer it if Wales went independent, mind.
ClosingADoor
Member
Where are you getting this from? New members need to join the euro once they are ready to do so. If Scotland is not ready, they can stick to whatever currency they want.
If there's one thing you can be sure of in absolutely any international negotiation it's that both sides are working to fuck each other over.
Yes. And people still think that England will subsidize Scotland like it did before. I don't see that. The UK will have to budget differently since all the EU funding will be gone. So education funds and infrastructure funds will have to be taken from the taxpayers. So little by little all the freedoms which are part of Scotland now will be gone for good.
May will just state that "we all knew that sacrifices will have to be made when we cast our votes" and there's free education gone and several other things.
The other Thatcher-esque plans to unshackle capitalism by cutting taxes drastically will not help providing social services either...
chromatic9
Member
Croatia and Poland took about ten years to join the EU so Scots need to know its unlikely they can just hop back in after leaving the UK which could take 3-5 years, so possibly 15 years max overall. Also I think SNP needs to really put the case forward over a longer time. It might be in the interest of people who want them in the UK to give them another ref and that will be that for a long time.
At least we wouldn't hear "we're being ruled by Westminster" and scowling every time something happens they don't like if they leave.
I'm for Scotland having the decision.
At least we wouldn't hear "we're being ruled by Westminster" and scowling every time something happens they don't like if they leave.
I'm for Scotland having the decision.
Adopting the Euro is part of the Copenhagen Criteria.
It's not a "When you're ready", it's now a requirement for joining.
England will cease to exist because every borough individually will eventually claim independence and become independent, and you will need a passport to cross the street. No one will have money, and carrots and beetroot will be the only food available most places. But hey! At least you get to make your own laws, and everyone is white and everyone kind of speaks English.
-Plasma Reus-
Service guarantees member status
In this situation, both parties benefit from the other doing well though.
ClosingADoor
Member
Yes, once the requirements are met. You join the EU. Then the process for the Euro starts. If Scotland is not ready to join the Euro, they will not do so instantly.
During the first referendum I was upset about the potential break up of the country but after hearing the SNP winge like hell every 10 minutes since and the Scots keep voting for them I really can't be bothered to listen to the miserablist grievance driven bastards anymore
Even if England took on all the debt we'd be better off, as Scotland spend more per head and the uk already spend more than we take in tax anyway. Scotland's demographics are pretty bad going forward and a lot of their top firms/banks will move to England. Oil will be next toworthless once we all start driving electric cars.
I myself am involved in moving a factory from Scotland to the uk because the owners got spooked by the last referendum they don't want 2 tax regimes (there are other reasons but this is the underlying one).
England could move all the public sector jobs sent north of the border like HMRC down south and move building ships for the Royal Navy back to my home town of Portsmouth.
so I reckon let Scotland go, take all the debt on so they have nothing left to moan about (they will still blame the English for everything but we won't have the on the Tv anymore) and let them crack on with their socialist uptopia
Even if England took on all the debt we'd be better off, as Scotland spend more per head and the uk already spend more than we take in tax anyway. Scotland's demographics are pretty bad going forward and a lot of their top firms/banks will move to England. Oil will be next toworthless once we all start driving electric cars.
I myself am involved in moving a factory from Scotland to the uk because the owners got spooked by the last referendum they don't want 2 tax regimes (there are other reasons but this is the underlying one).
England could move all the public sector jobs sent north of the border like HMRC down south and move building ships for the Royal Navy back to my home town of Portsmouth.
so I reckon let Scotland go, take all the debt on so they have nothing left to moan about (they will still blame the English for everything but we won't have the on the Tv anymore) and let them crack on with their socialist uptopia
They'd have to form their own currency I guess. It would certainly be interesting and would be weaker than sterling.
London can finally rid itself of the rest of this festering shit hole.
As a Englishman that wanted to remain and was heartbroken at the result, quips like this really hurt. Legitimately upsetting, personally.
Trump, for example is a diabolical maniac.. Many many Americans voted for him, but to say "Fuck Americans" for him being elected comes off as spiteful and unfair.
The vast majority of Scotland voted to remain, and that was an awesome message. I also think they should go ahead with a second referendum and if they left I would be sad to see them go as I would feel even more lonely as I do already here in Essex.
Isn't that what nationalists want?
More borders, but freedum?@Scotland entering the EU:
But wouldn't Scotland technically still be part of the EU if it breaks away from the UK before Brexit happens? The article will be triggered, but if there is no UK, there cannot be a Brexit in that sense.
If they're not ready to join the Euro, they're not ready to join the EU.
That isn't how majorites work.
There are 650 seats. Win more than 325 to have a majority.
SNP taking seat from Labour and Lib Dems doesn't increase the number won by the Tories.
Only irrational fear of the SNP in England is helping the Tory majority.
DKehoe
Member
Solving problems and creating Troubles.
ClosingADoor
Member
It does not work that way. Please provide a link where it states that once you join the EU you need to instantly adopt the Euro, because I have never heard of this.
In the Maastricht treaty it was decided that every new country joining needs to adopt the Euro in time. And that is under way. Since then about half of Eastern Europe joined the EU, and most of them have yet to adopt the Euro, because the economic criteria are not yet met.
London is a European already, founded by the Italians, no need to change it.
You are right, I worded it incorrectly. It does make a Labour government a far less likely prospect anytime soon though.
Frankfurter
Member
You waited for my response? Am I famous or sth. like that?
No doubt about that, but EU being "a shell" in the future...? And that part about the UK being the no. 1 economy within 10 years at most.... + the regime change part and the misunderstanding between leaving the Eurozone and leaving the EU...
The "United" Kingdom, everyone.
All jokes aside, every time this subject comes up there are always really hostile posts towards the Scots. Is this just the general mood in the UK?
There are also plenty of hostile posts towards the English.
In the real world though, nope. I work in London, and work with a lot of Scots and never encountered anything even slightly hostile. It's all just Internet big talk.
I think this talk of a second referendum is political posturing by Nicola Sturgeon. The opinion polls indicate that independence is still a minority cause; certainly not favourable enough to risk a second referendum, because if the SNP lost again it would kill off the issue for many years. Timing is everything here. There may be a chance of independence, if Brexit goes spectacularly wrong, but the window of opportunity will be quite precise and it hasn't arrived yet. The SNP shouldn't push for a referendum unless they are confident they will win, because a defeat would be a fatal disaster for their cause. If Theresa May was more of a chancer, she might profit from calling the SNP's bluff and forcing a second referendum on Scotland when independence sags in the polls; but she won't, mainly because that kind of gamble could easily backfire, but also because she's a particularly risk-averse Home Office breed of politician. No second referendum while she's in office, I guarantee you that.
Independence would be very costly for Scotland. It's hard to see how it could work. Scotland does most of its trade with the UK, not the EU, and the issues of currency, passports, customs, and oil revenues can't really be answered.
Progressives cheering for this act of economic self-mutilation just to "fuck the Tories" and "fuck Brexit" are not looking at the numbers. Scotland very much depends on Britain and would face severe austerity if it left. I'm not saying that because I hate Scots and want to talk them down; I'm saying it because I earnestly believe it's the most objective and plausible interpretation of the situation. Independent Scotland would be facing severe austerity, worsened further by the slump in oil prices.
If you genuinely support independence and think it would be a success for Scotland, I disagree but I can respect your position. But if you previously opposed independence and have now changed your mind purely to spite leave voters - what are you thinking?
Independence would be very costly for Scotland. It's hard to see how it could work. Scotland does most of its trade with the UK, not the EU, and the issues of currency, passports, customs, and oil revenues can't really be answered.
Progressives cheering for this act of economic self-mutilation just to "fuck the Tories" and "fuck Brexit" are not looking at the numbers. Scotland very much depends on Britain and would face severe austerity if it left. I'm not saying that because I hate Scots and want to talk them down; I'm saying it because I earnestly believe it's the most objective and plausible interpretation of the situation. Independent Scotland would be facing severe austerity, worsened further by the slump in oil prices.
If you genuinely support independence and think it would be a success for Scotland, I disagree but I can respect your position. But if you previously opposed independence and have now changed your mind purely to spite leave voters - what are you thinking?
Hellhole - seriously? We voted to leave an international organisation that doesn't dramatically effect the lives of most Brits. Rwanda was a hellhole. Yugoslavia was a hellhole. Syria was and is a hellhole. Britain's a first-world country having a pretty big hiccup. Again, I can respect that it's a big deal to you and that you're very upset by the outcome. It's unpleasant, but words do matter and life goes on, so let's have some perspective.
The EU isn't this alturistic utopian government that some progressives seem to think it is. It's a messy bureaucracy, made up of 28 utterly self-interested countries, and it moves slowly. Accession to the Union is complex and takes a long time. And it only takes one member to veto. Spain is doing everything it can to stamp down Catalonian secessionism and will want to make life difficult for Scotland if it can. Scottish membership would not be obtained easily and it certainly wouldn't be obtained in a heart-warming display of European solidarity.
People are jumping on you for saying unpopular things but I just wanted to say that I respect your posts and agree with you. I think we were probably on opposite sides of the Brexit referendum but I like seeing reason and logic applied to a debate.
The Scots think they are morally superior because they have more socialist programmes, which the English taxpayer supports.
Joking, kinda.
kraspkibble
Permabanned.
Good. The sooner we GTFO the UK the better. I voted Yes before and will do it again. I know a lot of people voted No because of the whole situation over the EU/GBP. Well, look how that's working out for us! Being dragged out the EU against our will and the £ is fucked.
I'd rather us take a shot at independence and get fucked over by ourselves than stay in the UK and get fucked off the English. If it doesn't work out for us then we only have ourselves to blame. Right now we are at the mercy of Westminster.
I'd rather us take a shot at independence and get fucked over by ourselves than stay in the UK and get fucked off the English. If it doesn't work out for us then we only have ourselves to blame. Right now we are at the mercy of Westminster.
Bony Manifesto
Member
Scotland isn't an EU member country in itself, so no.
Not entirely sure how the SNP will argue that to guarantee EU internal market membership worth about 4% of GDP, its worth risking rUK market access membership worth about 20% of its GDP
Also from my understanding both France & Spain will both say 'No' to Scotlands entry into the EU (rUK is rump state)
Still, if it happened it would be quite funny to watch the Scots, who complain about Westminster, get a rude awakening when Schauble gets his claws into them (actually it wouldn't be funny to watch that at all)
Also from my understanding both France & Spain will both say 'No' to Scotlands entry into the EU (rUK is rump state)
Still, if it happened it would be quite funny to watch the Scots, who complain about Westminster, get a rude awakening when Schauble gets his claws into them (actually it wouldn't be funny to watch that at all)
chromatic9
Member
The hostile stuff comes from the Scots being "ruled by Westminster". It's all I've heard so it's a case of if you want to piss and moan all the time then why not vote to leave then. Most English are pretty happy about the Scots but they look like they want to leave.
Someone quoting oh look the United Kingdom everyone, they've got the Scottish National Party, already had a referendum and want a second and they have bitterly complained all my life.
Two can play the "oh look United Kingdom everyone" but lets just take it for what it is, resentment of Westminster and getting fucked by the English.
I'd love Scotland to be on their own as they made it clear enough times they're not for a United Kingdom. I'd rather Scotland blame themselves rather than keep blaming Westminster.
If this is not the case, it will be shown truthfully in the vote without any EU clouding it like last time. I welcome Scotland if they want to stay and the bitter side will just have to deal with it.
More Fun To Compute
Member
Well why not. At this point everyone is just making Putin's dreams come true one after another so go for it. I mean it's not like things can get any worse or like we might want a couple of months to cool down without some nightmarish political campaign from hell. (screams internally)
Well, it's fairly easy to break away from Unions, isn't it?
I like how people are overly pessimistic about Scotland breaking away, but utterly optimistic about the consequences of Brexit. No, the UK will not leave the EU without problems. The country has not even started to feel the issues which are coming up.
When 10% of tax revenue are from finance and most big companies from abroad stay in London for access to the EU, well, the UK might have to drastically cut taxes and basically initiate a trade war with all of its neighbors. Not the best situation to be in, but something May already hinted at.
Trump will not come to the rescue, because it's America First and there are not many countries left which are / were as friendly as the EU was. I mean, they granted the UK so many privileges and so many exceptions that they basically influenced policies without being bound to them. And it was still not enough.
The US or China will not be forthcoming. And the EU will also put some pressure on the UK just to make a statement.
The UK will not deteriorate into a hellhole (even though Trump called Europe that way several times), but sacrifices will be made. And in exchange for what? Certainly not 350 million pound per week for NHS. But maybe they will give that if the currency devaluates that much.
GrantDaNasty
Member
Get yours, Scotland.
Fuck England, let them soak in their nationalist-isolationist mess by themselves.
Fuck England, let them soak in their nationalist-isolationist mess by themselves.
Royal_Phalanx
Member
I would have to disagree on the Tories=Centre-right. There are other Western European centre-right parties that I could tolerate the idea of voting for, the Tories aren't one of them.
Bits N Pieces
Member
As a Scotsman I almost cannae be arsed with another two years of all the shite that comes with it.
Scotland are a bit fucked either way to be honest. They either stay, leave the EU and suffer the economic consequences along with the rest of the UK. Or they get independence but are stuck with a hugely long process rejoining the EU (which may be blocked anyway) and lose all the money from the UK whilst they wait.
Unfortunately they're are just not economically self-sufficient at the moment.
Unfortunately they're are just not economically self-sufficient at the moment.
Troubles 2.0: Electric Boogaloo
The talk about the economy also conveniently forgets all of the UK only projects that Scotland puts about 10% into that we wouldn't need to fund in future. Trident, HS2 and others.
Also, I remember reading that many Scottish exports like whisky gets included in English tax receipts rather than Scottish due to them leaving via English ports. Dunno if that's nonsense or legit but Scotland has a huge whisky export industry, tourism and huge potential for making the creation and selling of renewable energy to the rest of the UK and Europe a sustainable industry. The talk of us being doomed as a small independent nation has always been and remains nonsense.
The UK deficit created under the Tories is fucking humongous but that never gets brought up when talking about Brexit Britain..
Would there need to be changes, might we need to pay more tax to keep the services we cherish? Most likely. Would the generally more progressive population in the country be happy to do this. More would than wouldn't.
Fact remains this is ALSO a question of basic democracy and sovereignty and also human dignity. The future of the UK frankly looks fucking dark. In bed with Trump, Tories following UKIP policies unchallenged for at least another generation or two, things we hold dear like the NHS and basic social justice being crumbled under the Tories.. Scotland is and should continue to pursue being better than that. We'll take the financial hit and deal with it ourselves. We absolutely can and we can have our dignity even if not everything pans out perfectly which it probably won't. But hostage to the Tories which does not reflect at all the will of the average Scottish citizen.. no way.
Also, I remember reading that many Scottish exports like whisky gets included in English tax receipts rather than Scottish due to them leaving via English ports. Dunno if that's nonsense or legit but Scotland has a huge whisky export industry, tourism and huge potential for making the creation and selling of renewable energy to the rest of the UK and Europe a sustainable industry. The talk of us being doomed as a small independent nation has always been and remains nonsense.
The UK deficit created under the Tories is fucking humongous but that never gets brought up when talking about Brexit Britain..
Would there need to be changes, might we need to pay more tax to keep the services we cherish? Most likely. Would the generally more progressive population in the country be happy to do this. More would than wouldn't.
Fact remains this is ALSO a question of basic democracy and sovereignty and also human dignity. The future of the UK frankly looks fucking dark. In bed with Trump, Tories following UKIP policies unchallenged for at least another generation or two, things we hold dear like the NHS and basic social justice being crumbled under the Tories.. Scotland is and should continue to pursue being better than that. We'll take the financial hit and deal with it ourselves. We absolutely can and we can have our dignity even if not everything pans out perfectly which it probably won't. But hostage to the Tories which does not reflect at all the will of the average Scottish citizen.. no way.
SlickShoes
Member
I love all the "let them go, never liked them anyway" "all they do is moan" "they spend all of our tax money".
You'd think it was a channel 5 program about people on benefits.
You'd think it was a channel 5 program about people on benefits.
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