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SM3DW sells 107k in Japan, lowest 3D Mario debut ever
- Thread starter zomgbbqftw
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And we reduce ourselves to insults now.
I guess if that's your reasoning, so be it. BTW, where's DragonSworne? I'd expect him to get in on this.
It's sadly a weird chicken vs egg problem. You won't be getting more games like that unless the console starts selling, but the console may not sell because games like that aren't on the console.
From wiki:
Super Mario Galaxy new enemies:
- Bomb Boos
- Chomp Pups
- Cluckbooms
- Crabbers
- Fire Shooters
- Flipbugs
- Galactic Tornadoes
- Golden Chomp
- Goombeetles
- Gringills
- Ice Bats
- Jack O' Goombas
- Blue Lava Bubbles
- Li'l Brrrs
- Li'l Cinders
- Li'l Springies
- Mandibugs
- Mandibug Stacks
- Octoguys
- Octoombas
- Octopi
- Prickly Piranha Plants
- Sentry Beam‎s
- Slurples
- Spiky Plants
- Spiky Topman
- Spring Topman
- Starbags
- Topminis
- Undergrunts
- Water Shooters
Super Mario 3D World new enemies:
- Ant Troopers
- Big Ant Troopers
- Big Galoombas
- Blocksteppers
- Blurkers
- Brolders
- Cat Banzai Bills
- Cat Bullet Bills
- Cat Goombas
- Charvaarghs
- Conkdors
- Flopters
- Fuzzlers
- Grumblums
- Hop-Chops
- Horned Ant Troopers
- Ka-Thunks
- Madpoles
- Parabones
- Piranha Creepers
- Rammerheads
- Ring Burners
- Skipsqueaks
- Snow Pokeys
- Spiny Skipsqueaks
- Splorches
- Splounders
- Ty-Foos
- Walleyes
airmangataosenai
Member
If Nintendo fans kept discussion to the official game/system treads you would see less negativity. The attempts to artificially improve the image of the platform by spamming each and every semi-positive article or impression of the platform or a game for it created a backlash, it's as simple as that.
While he did have some good points, he missed the forest while looking for a single tree: Nintendo and it's fans have always been the ones who have made this claim. They are the ones who demand us to pay several hundred dollars beyond the price of the game just for the right to play them so it is perfectly fair to hold them to a higher standard. Perhaps it is an impossible to reach that standard, but at the same time I'd say that the current fanbase they have aren't critical enough, and never react to negative changes within the company until after it's too late to quickly change course. Case in point: E3 2008. People had been voicing concerns over how their conferences and corporate focus was changing for the worse the previous year but the fans were dismissive because they still had Mario and Smash on the immediate horizon. Then this happened and all you got that holiday was Animal Crossing. 2008 was okay for the system overall because of releases before E3, but after it was pretty bad for a while.
Freezie KO
Banned
Isn't this the model for all hardware platforms? Unless you're buying a PS4 or Xbone to prop up your coffee table.
Well clearly it's not because it isn't selling like a Mario game usually does.
I've made this point before and I'll say it again: Having 3 or 4 amazing games isn't worth shit unless you price your fucking console what it's actually worth. I compare Nintendo this generation to Sony in 2006, but less so than MS: Coming off a massive success, they release a console with a feature that developers (read: Publishers) can't be bothered developing for and a price tag that is completely unreasonable for what you're buying. Perhaps Nintendo thought that brand neutral gamers were idiots.
Even the hardest of the hardcore Nintendo fans cannot deny that the business and technical decisions surrounding the Wii U have been a comedy of errors, fueled by a shortsighted belief that all Nintendo needed to do was walk into the HD era, click its fingers and have the hardcore jump all over them like they were Fonzie in the local meetup spot.
I think people are confusing 3D Worlds appeal with the Wii U. It doesn't matter how appealing the game is, the console is currently a detrement and any appeal a game has is clouded by that.
There was never a price drop. There was a price shift. The cost of entry is exactly the same.
I was buying a Wii U...for $299. This so-called price drop was nonsense. You could buy one at launch for the same price you can buy one now. The extra storage is irrelevant given it's small size. People who weren't gagging for a Wii U at $299 at launch aren't going to jump on one now at the same price.
There needs to be a real price drop. A significant one.
This. For this console to turn around at all it needs to be half the price of the competition. This Nintendo quality first party games stuff doesn't hold near the weight with the average gamer as it used to, and the U doesn't have an inkling of the casual appeal that the Wii had.
equippedwithtowel
Member
And that's EAD Tokyo's fault?
The game didn't sell poorly because it didn't have Wart, and in your admittedly outspoken rant I couldn't find a response to that assertion.
Because it's a dumb assertion that serves only to deflect attention away from the real problem?
There's nothing wrong with 3D World as a game. There is everything wrong with the platform it's sold on.
Phire Phox
Banned
Not surprising considering the install base of the console.
This is a totally fair post that I actually cannot disagree with. These are the posts I like seeing in these threads. However, the ones actively saying that "this needs to fail" regardless of the quality of the product to the just flat out driveby thread shitting are what drives me as a member insane.
I have no problems admitting I'm a fan of Nintendo, but when I disapprove of something another company does I don't rush immediately into their threads and try to post some driveby one off meme picture taking glee in the fact that mistakes were made. Perhaps my posts have been a bit abrasive lately but when you literally have guys coming in saying "I'M GLAD THIS GAME FAILED" or even worse "I LOVE THESE GAMES BUT I'LL WAIT OUT UNTIL THE CONSOLE'S NEAR DEATH SO I CAN GET ONE IN A FIRE SALE" it honestly frustrates me as someone who not only enjoys and supports the software but also works in software.
If you legitimately don't like a game, that's fine you don't have to buy it. But if the game's objectively high quality, don't come into threads and try to shit them up by saying you're glad it failed because you don't like the hardware its on for whatever reason. Also, and especially this, if you like all these games then its clear you have value in the experiences that are exclusive to the console. Just buy the fucking console and give the people who made these experiences your support. Don't sit there and wait for a possible fire sale, that's basically telling the developers that you're willing to starve them just so you could possibly get it at a dirt cheap price.
Developers are people too. If you like their work, fucking support them.
He's not devaluing past games. You've put them on a pedestal and made them into something that they never were. Most of the negativity towards 3D World has come from people who believe that Mario is a series where each new installment essentially reinvented the wheel, but honestly the only game that changed the series to the degree that these people seem to believe is necessary was Mario 64. SMB1-NSMBU have been progressions of the same gameplay, with a small detour with a game that was a reskin of a totally different game. Mario 64 was the first 3D Mario, so of course it had a ton of novelty. And ever since they've steadily progressed with each new 3D Mario game towards more focus on 3D platforming until here we are with 3D World. People overvalue the changes made between past Mario games and undervalue changes made in the newest games.
New powerups are enough for old games but not 3D World.
Increased scope is good enough for old games but not 3D World.
Better graphics are good enough for old games but not 3D World.
It's funny that people champion Sunshine as an example of Nintendo doing what they think Nintendo should do with Mario when it was essentially Mario 64 with increased scope, new powerups, and better graphics (but much worse level design and missions) limited to a single tropical trope. 3D World is a bigger, prettier game than ever with new powerups that are well used with great level design and it's despised.
The main characters from Doki Doki Panic are owned by Fuji TV and are the mascot characters for Fuji TV's Yume Kojo '87 festival. The main reason why Doki Doki Panic was changed into a Super Mario Bros. game is because Nintendo owned rights to everything in the game except for the main characters.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_W2vldGyOQ
Like Wonderful 101 and Nintendoland? Or how about Steel Diver, Pushmo, Crashmo, Dillion's Rolling Western?
The new IP argument continues to become tiresome as it is inaccurate.
Not even the first week. The first three days in Japan. It's pretty bad but the overreactions are pretty terrible.
i'm kind of surprised this thread is still going
SM3DW will have serious legs, that's pretty much indisputable. so i don't think you could make heads or tails from the game's first week. we're talking about the worst selling nintendo console aside from virtual boy, so you need to taper your expectations a great deal. in that respect, it did okay. you can't read too much into it either way
SM3DW will have serious legs, that's pretty much indisputable. so i don't think you could make heads or tails from the game's first week. we're talking about the worst selling nintendo console aside from virtual boy, so you need to taper your expectations a great deal. in that respect, it did okay. you can't read too much into it either way
cpp_is_king
Member
The solution to the install base problem is to make an adapter that allows you to play 3ds games on the wii u tablet
The ones in the E-shop or you don't count those?
DICKS AHOY
Banned
pretty the escapist docked 3dworld a point for still having bowser as the antagonist
I mean it was MovieBob reviewing, obviously, but they still went and published his review.
That's only one critic.....
dragonfart28
Banned
Nintendo needs to release more failed consoles because the library right now is fantastic.
IncandescentPrecept
Banned
Maybe they can try to create a new flagship IP.
DICKS AHOY
Banned
... I don't get what that has to do with what I was responding to? I was pointing out a (somewhat) serious review site that similarly put emphasis on something as trivial as what anticitizien was attributing 3DWorld's 'failure' to.
Freezie KO
Banned
Sakura Samurai was fun. So was PushMo. I haven't tried Dillon's yet, but let's be honest. While semantically, you're correct that these are new IP, that's not what people are asking for when they ask for new IP.
These eShop titles are about as good as an upper tier indie game on any given platform.
What people want is for Nintendo to invest the full power of their formidable game development skill in a new concept (with new mechanics). Something that really digs deeper into the game mechanics than PushMo does with its one-by-one puzzles or Sakura Samurai with its 3 bosses and 7 enemy types.
Those games are fun, but in a climate where Nintendo has been enamored with mini-games, it's fair to want something meatier.
equippedwithtowel
Member
That's why I was being dismissive of it.
Never commented on the state of the WiiU, and I'm not sure why you think I did.
Better graphics indisputably increases development costs. What do you think developers pay their artists that create the HD assets, hopes and dreams? It's no accident that this past generation had some of the largest teams and biggest budgets yet. It takes a lot of people and resources to make those AAA HD games. As stated in my post you quoted, higher budgets are caused by a combination of the availability of higher end hardware and a toxic business model that developers and publishers are unwilling to move way from. This past generation has proven that developers do not think rationally, and and they do not stop pumping money into graphics before it becomes unsustainable. They continue to do it because they feel they have to to compete.
Furthermore, $23 million is nothing to sneeze it. It's not a feasible budget except for some of the bigger publishers. As stated in my other post, the PC market is entirely different ballgame and has different expectations, even if the hardware might be virtually identical. Although what's funny is that Crytek immediately followed up Crysis with a sequel that made all the same mistakes as the inflated budget, CoD money chasing, AAA games on consoles, so maybe they're not so different after all.
I think Sony's doing good by promoting indies, there's already this mentality that indie games are lesser than the games produced by big publishers. Don't forget how many people complained about the indie focus in Sony's E3 presentation this year. Sony is unlikely to rely on indie's too much except for publicity purposes
Isn't that what Wonderful 101 is trying to be? Also is X considered a new IP?
superpickleman
Member
I stumbled into the wrong thread. Carry on.
X can be a new IP if it does turn out to be a new IP. Obviously, it wouldn't be if it's actually Xenoblade 2, but the jury's still out until we see a more formal unveiling of the game in the next few months. Hopefully.
N64's install base was zero when Mario 64 launched. Mario 64 sold 50% stronger than SM3DW.
GameCube's struggling install base was similar to Wii U's struggling install base when Mario Sunshine launched. Mario Sunshine sold almost triple (and still ended up as the worst-selling Mario game listed in the OP, and people threw tomatoes at the GameCube and called it a failure).
Which might mean absolutely nothing for the long term success of SM3DW or the Wii U, but for now, it looks really bad.
DICKS AHOY
Banned
It'd help if Nintendo properly supported Wonderful 101 and it had sold well.
It deserves to be considered a new, major Nintendo IP, but it'll probably just be a one-off gem at this point people will confuse for a Platinum-owned franchise. Part of me feels X is going to wind up being Xenoblade 2/online (isn't Shulk teased in one of them?) though.
There is a substantial leap of logic involved in trying to tie together "why didn't they introduce a new villain" and "why didn't they pander to nostalgia by dredging up an old villain" as a single coherent thought.
Yeah, I don't see how Nintendo comes back in the console space. A huge chunk of their audience is attached to mobile. They don't know what Mario is, they know that red bird though.
There is just no chance for a console that only offers Nintendo stuff. Time to give up. It'll only get harder. 107k and rapidly approaching zero.
There is just no chance for a console that only offers Nintendo stuff. Time to give up. It'll only get harder. 107k and rapidly approaching zero.
equippedwithtowel
Member
Do I have to dig up 3DS sales or can you do it yourself?
Justagamer80
Banned
Terrible sales and undeserved. The game is my favorite Mario game since Super Mario World. It's simply amazing.
The 3ds is not doing well in comparison to it's competition (iOS). And I said console space.
DragonSworne
Banned
There are more views in this thread than copies sold of SM3DW.....
DICKS AHOY
Banned
both of which anticitizen suggested as things 3DWorld 'should' have done and which the outlier review I was talking about heavily insinuates they should have done
i'm not seeing the difference in comparisons here, not to mention I was agreeing with your sentiments in the first place that it's a weird bullet-point to place a lot of emphasis on for a story-less platformer of all things
Spieler Eins
Member
Sure, whatever revisionist history is needed to detract that 3D World simply lacks the generational leap of the others. In the end, it was obvious to everyone that Sunshine was a brandnew game for a brandnew generation. As we see here, people are obviously content with 3D Land and don't wanna buy more levels for it on overpriced hardware - even actual WiiU owners.
MasterOfPuppets
Member
In 30 pages this may have been said, but I though 3D Mario was not as popular as 2D Mario in Japan. Please do not quote me on this, though.
DICKS AHOY
Banned
While I already find it telling you've left it out of your posts talking about how every other 3D Mario is a far more impressive feat than 3DWorld, what were your thoughts on Galaxy 2? Was it a far lesser Mario game than the previous ones because it was a direct sequel to Galaxy and likely used even more cut material and ideas from Galaxy 1 than 3DWorld does from 3DLand?
I also specifically remember you bemoaning how un-Galaxy like this game looked in a few preview threads, so I don't entirely buy that your main beef with this game is that it isn't something 'new' either.
I would've preferred something brand new too (Hence a SMG3 would've disappointed me as well, if not moreso since we've already gotten two of 'em) and I agree it's not the game-changer the Wii U needed, but that's looking at the context the game was released in and not the quality game itself, something which I feel you're not doing.
It's not as popular as 2D Mario anywhere I think. People probably just expected things to be different this time due to NSMBU's cold reception compared to the insane amount NSMBWii sold. 3DLand may have sold more than NSMB2 on the 3DS did though, I don't remember the sales exactly.
Ah. I do think though that the intent was to get some of the 2D Mario players used to 3D Mario, by making some "modifications" in order to attract players who otherwise would be intimidated by a 3D game. (Which is a phenomenon I never knew existed until I joined GAF this year and sure enough, when I looked at sales of 2D vs 3D Mario on Wii, was astounded to see. I mean, I never played 2D Mario games until NSMBU forced my hand as the marquee launch title for the WiiU, and I'm actually finding 2D Mario to be more challenging with lots of "rage quit" moments compared to 3D Mario! I would think people like the flash and flair of a big 3D game, but the sales figures said otherwise.)
You might want to tell Nintendo that. They refer to it as a "price cut" and a "price decline".
And no, the price of entry is not exactly the same. The Deluxe used to get you a 32 gig Wii U with Nintendoland for 350 dollars. Now for 300 dollars you get the same Wii U, but instead of Nintendoland (a 29.99 MSRP title), you get a 59.99 and a 29.99 dollar MSRP pair of games. So a 50 dollar price cut plus 2 included games instead of 1, both of which are more attractive than the original game that was once included.
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