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So, when do you expect PS5 and the Xbox One successor tba? And what specs?

Inuhanyou

Believes Dragon Quest is a franchise managed by Sony
I don't see anything special in that image. It looks nice up close but the LOD detail is quite poor.

So yeah, add more detail in the distance and stuff and there you go, Horizon 2 - PS5.

Red Dead from last gen isn't a million miles away from that shot, image quality excluded.

wat.

horizon is the best looking open world game without a doubt. Better than witcher 3 on PC and light years away from RDR on 360 7 years ago. actually look at some vids in general before comparing a single screenshot and makin up some nonsense

Seriously, some of you guys bend over backwards to create stupid narratives.
 

Memento

Member
I don't see anything special in that image. It looks nice up close but the LOD detail is quite poor.

So yeah, add more detail in the distance and stuff and there you go, Horizon 2 - PS5.

Red Dead from last gen isn't a million miles away from that shot, image quality excluded.

Oh my God.
 
I mean beat to market with the next console. Unless you think MS is permanently beaten. Which could be the case.

I think this is the case. There's no hardware MS could release that will make them competitive in the EU and JP, and a PS3 sized error that hands them the US at Hilarious 3 to 1 margins isn't happening.

Sony has won permanently.
 

Papacheeks

Banned
1) It doesn't look bad, but it's not what I'd call super impressive either. LOD clealry takes a hit in that vista and IQ isn't super crisp. A PC verison of that game would have lush terrain much further into the distance, and the IQ would be pristine. That's not to belittle Horizon, which can look amazing (this is a bad screenshot IMHO), but it's simply the nature of the beast. Better hardware = more possibilities.

2) I'm not sure how you are refuting the gaffer you are quoting. He's talking about hardware. Sure, good devs will get a lot of out console hardware, but hardware is hardware and the PS4 was not top of the line hardware when it came out, and neither is the Pro, and neither will Ps5 feature top fo the line hardware.

The estimate of looking at a high end PC today and expect somehting similar for PS5 is probably going to be mostly accurate.

Not super impressive for a 3.5 year old system?

What is impressive to you then? I take it Uncharted 4 isn't impressive either?
 
I don't see anything special in that image. It looks nice up close but the LOD detail is quite poor.

So yeah, add more detail in the distance and stuff and there you go, Horizon 2 - PS5.

Red Dead from last gen isn't a million miles away from that shot, image quality excluded.

Well that's pretty ignorant. Graphics be damned, Horizon is far more complex in a thousand little different ways than RDR is, and I'm not sure how could even entertain arguing otherwise.
 
Well that's pretty ignorant. Graphics be damned, Horizon is far more complex in a thousand little different ways than RDR is, and I'm not sure how could even entertain arguing otherwise.

Not really. Of course Horizon is better but the general impression of that shot is not too dissimilar to that of a Red Dead landscape. Again image quality, modern shaders etc excluded.

But the real point is that I would wager the difference between a PS4Pro and a PS5 game will provide even less of a difference. So anyone expecting miracles from next gen hardware I believe will be in for disappointment. Providing they release it as early as 2019/20 that is.
 

Curufinwe

Member
It's all about the software, there's High-end PCs that are incredibly powerful but the software isn't taking full advantage of their capabilities. So much more things can be done for graphics and physics in games, it's not even funny. Especially with the capabilities of a single Titan X Pascal GPU that is like 3-4x the PS4 Pro's GPU and 6-8x the PS4's GPU.



With a new console featuring exclusives you can push the technology significantly further as you have more powerful hardware that sets a new benchmark, the developers can then take advantage of this hardware and push the software to new heights.

It's incredible after 30 years of new consoles that this still has to be explained.
 

nOoblet16

Member
1) It doesn't look bad, but it's not what I'd call super impressive either. LOD clealry takes a hit in that vista and IQ isn't super crisp. A PC verison of that game would have lush terrain much further into the distance, and the IQ would be pristine. That's not to belittle Horizon, which can look amazing (this is a bad screenshot IMHO), but it's simply the nature of the beast. Better hardware = more possibilities.
Ofcourse there will be LOD issues etc it's still a game. The point was that it is an inarguably monumental upgrade from PS360 open games and it's open world to boot...Despite people saying "don't expect much upgrade with PS4Bone"
 
I expect it in 2020

Lower price ~15TFLOPs machine that plays standalone games retail, digital and BC, both based on AMD, both capable of playing each other's games requiring a subscription service (And controller or peripheral?), but not natively without that sub. Both also function as smart home hub device and offering different smart home or gaming features.
 

nOoblet16

Member
Not really. Of course Horizon is better but the general impression of that shot is not too dissimilar to that of a Red Dead landscape. Again image quality, modern shaders etc excluded.
In that particular shot maybe, but Horizon has abundant foliage, infact a lot even by current gen standards, terrain variation and objects on screen, we have seen it ourselves. Red Dead lacks that...and yes I know there's a forest in the game.
 
In that particular shot maybe, but Horizon has abundant foliage, infact a lot even by current gen standards, and objects on screen, we have seen it ourselves. Red Dead lacks that...And yes I know there's a forest in the game.

Sure, but the point is a new machine isn't going to be able to do anything drastically different. Consoles don't release these days with high end hardware because they can't, so a major jump in graphics isn't going to happen. Especially not when you factor in diminishing returns. Also next gen will probably be ~4K only, eating up a lot of resources before they start.

Because of this I think it would be best to hold off on next gen hardware for as long as possible, especially so now we have these mid gen upgrades. I see a lot of people want new hardware as early as 2019 or even 2018, but there's only so much they can do technology wise in that time frame.
 

Krayz

Member
I wonder more about what features the next round of consoles will bring. More power is expected, but what new techniques will devs be able to use? This gen we got PBR, what's next?
 

newbong95

Member
Amd's new exascale mega apu might be the base for the upcoming ps5/xbox 2 gen consoles . This tech will help to integrate backward compatible chips better as modules but also upgrade to more modules for pro versions .

According to this paper, AMD wants to get around this "large die issue" by making their Exascale APUs using a large number of smaller dies, which are connected via a silicon interposer. This is similar to how AMD GPUs connect to HBM memory and can, in theory, be used to connect two or more GPU, or in this case CPU and GPU dies, to create what is effectively a larger final chip using several smaller parts.

In the image below you can see that this APU uses eight different CPU dies/chiplets and eight different GPU dies/chiplets to create an exascale APU that can effectively act like a single unit. If these CPU chiplets use AMD's Ryzen CPU architecture they will have a minimum of 4 CPU cores, giving this hypothetical APU a total of 32 CPU cores and 64 threads.

This new APU type will also use onboard memory, using a next-generation memory type that can be stacked directly onto a GPU die, rather than be stacked beside a GPU like HBM. Combine this with an external bank of memory (perhaps DDR4) and AMD's new GPU memory architecture and you will have a single APU that can work with a seemingly endless amount of memory and easily compute using both CPU and GPU resources using HSA (Heterogeneous System Architecture).

In this chip both the CPU and GPU portions can use the packages onboard memory as well as an external memory, opening up a lot of interesting possibilities for the HPC market, possibilities that neither Intel or Nvidia can provide themselves.

https://www.overclock3d.net/news/cpu_mainboard/amd_reveals_a_exascale_mega_apu_in_a_new_academic_paper/1
 

TLZ

Banned
Why bother when Playstation 4 is the new Playstation 2?

They have gaming market on the bag right now but they also had it with Ps2 and 360/Wii changed the game.

Except the 360/Wii didn't and it's more Sony fucking up with the PS3 at launch and fucked up their own momentum.
 
People said the same thing about PS4 but now we are getting these kind of graphics in a open world game:

HT8yXX.jpg


Dont underestimate these developers mate.

That actually looks pretty bad.
 

Lister

Banned
Not super impressive for a 3.5 year old system?

What is impressive to you then? I take it Uncharted 4 isn't impressive either?

Impressive compared to what though, in terms of hardware? Similar GPU hardware would be able to do the same thing.
 

Lister

Banned
Ofcourse there will be LOD issues etc it's still a game. The point was that it is an inarguably monumental upgrade from PS360 open games and it's open world to boot...Despite people saying "don't expect much upgrade with PS4Bone"

I don't know what argument I waded into, but I'm nto trying to argue that that isn't a huge step up from last gen. That's silly.

I was only arguing the particular point of the likely power of upcoming hardware.
 
I don't think there will be, or it just be incremental updates. At least in how a conventional consoles terms. Why? Two things: Affordability and time.

Games are costing huge amounts to make in terms of times and cost as it is - more power will just exacerbate that. There been a huge drop of in terms of the amount of retail games being release from this gen to last, and more studios are moving towards other revenues, be it mobile or smaller games. Games are needing to sell 3-6 million just to break even, and up towards 5 years to make.

Perhaps there is one more system using the current industry model, but it feels to me as though we're reaching the ceiling at least. You just have to look at Uncharted 4 and Horizon to see how games currently look, and i don't think you can sell games on graphics anymore after that ( i know people have said that in previous generation, but still). It'll be all down to how to make trailers and edit them to sell stuff from here on out.
 

AmyS

Member
I don't think there will be, or it just be incremental updates. At least in how a conventional consoles terms. Why? Two things: Affordability and time.

Games are costing huge amounts to make in terms of times and cost as it is - more power will just exacerbate that. There been a huge drop of in terms of the amount of retail games being release from this gen to last, and more studios are moving towards other revenues, be it mobile or smaller games. Games are needing to sell 3-6 million just to break even, and up towards 5 years to make.

Perhaps there is one more system using the current industry model, but it feels to me as though we're reaching the ceiling at least. You just have to look at Uncharted 4 and Horizon to see how games currently look, and i don't think you can sell games on graphics anymore after that ( i know people have said that in previous generation, but still). It'll be all down to how to make trailers and edit them to sell stuff from here on out.

I pretty much disagree.

There will certainly be another full console generation. PS5 - Xbox Something.

There's enough technology coming down the pike over the next 12-24 months in the PC space that will allow for another generation of consoles in 2020 for $400, with enough of a leap over 2013's PS4/Xbone.

7nm process technology
HBM2, then HBM3 (for PC) by then HBM2 should not be nearly as expensive
greater scaleability in AMD's CPU/GPU/APU roadmap
Developers will have already hit the ground running making games with UE4+ and take much better advantage of low-level APIs like DX12 (D3D12) and Vulkan.
Competition - If Sony does a PS5, Microsoft will counter with its own equivalent.
 

LordOfChaos

Member
Usually the RAM upgrade is 8x the previous gen. Do you guys think there's a chance we'll actually get 64GB of RAM on the next consoles?

Honestly, even thinking of 2020 I don't see this happening. I think it'll be around 32GB, but it will be A LOT faster than current RAM.



Yeah, to me the bigger thing would be that it's HBM2 or HBM3, the latter of which can scale to terrabytes a second.

The question then is if enough 1080p TVs will have been replaced by then to matter that much. I don't think we're even close to doing everything we could with 1080p and I think it's silly to squander 2x the power on 4x the pixels right now, but anywho...Something with HBM3 and a GPU to match certainly would.
 

AmyS

Member
Yeah, to me the bigger thing would be that it's HBM2 or HBM3, the latter of which can scale to terrabytes a second.

The question then is if enough 1080p TVs will have been replaced by then to matter that much. I don't think we're even close to doing everything we could with 1080p and I think it's silly to squander 2x the power on 4x the pixels right now, but anywho...Something with HBM3 and a GPU to match certainly would.

Yep.

HBM3 will be able to reach 2.4 Terabytes a second, at least.

9bb6b7df-6be9-45fe-a2d1-6e4580a309f1.jpg


HBM3 will feature a lower core voltage than the 1.2V of HBM2, as well as more than two times the peak bandwidth: HBM2 offers 256GB/s of bandwidth per layer of DRAM, while HBM3 doubles that to 512GB/s. The total amount of memory bandwidth available could well be terabytes per second.

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016/08/hbm3-details-price-bandwidth/
 

Renekton

Member
There's enough technology coming down the pike over the next 12-24 months in the PC space that will allow for another generation of consoles in 2020 for $400, with enough of a leap over 2013's PS4/Xbone.

7nm process technology
HBM2, then HBM3 (for PC) by then HBM2 should not be nearly as expensive
greater scaleability in AMD's CPU/GPU/APU roadmap
Developers will have already hit the ground running making games with UE4+ and take much better advantage of low-level APIs like DX12 (D3D12) and Vulkan.
Competition - If Sony does a PS5, Microsoft will counter with its own equivalent.
7nm in 12-24 months? 😁
 
2020 feels like a good year for the PS5. It's harder to say with Microsoft. It almost feels like they're trying to stealth launch a new gen with the Scorpio. Without details on the device or knowledge of its reception it's impossible to speculate about their next step.
 

newbong95

Member
https://www.overclock3d.net/news/cpu_mainboard/amd_reveals_a_exascale_mega_apu_in_a_new_academic_paper/1

According to this paper, AMD wants to get around this "large die issue" by making their Exascale APUs using a large number of smaller dies, which are connected via a silicon interposer. This is similar to how AMD GPUs connect to HBM memory and can, in theory, be used to connect two or more GPU, or in this case CPU and GPU dies, to create what is effectively a larger final chip using several smaller parts.

In the image below you can see that this APU uses eight different CPU dies/chiplets and eight different GPU dies/chiplets to create an exascale APU that can effectively act like a single unit. If these CPU chiplets use AMD's Ryzen CPU architecture they will have a minimum of 4 CPU cores, giving this hypothetical APU a total of 32 CPU cores and 64 threads.

This new APU type will also use onboard memory, using a next-generation memory type that can be stacked directly onto a GPU die, rather than be stacked beside a GPU like HBM. Combine this with an external bank of memory (perhaps DDR4) and AMD's new GPU memory architecture and you will have a single APU that can work with a seemingly endless amount of memory and easily compute using both CPU and GPU resources using HSA (Heterogeneous System Architecture).

In this chip both the CPU and GPU portions can use the packages onboard memory as well as an external memory, opening up a lot of interesting possibilities for the HPC market, possibilities that neither Intel or Nvidia can provide themselves.
21065703899l.png



This new proposed apu may be the building block of next gen systems ... giving them quite easy way to upgrade stacking dies on their previous one .
 
I think Microsoft is sincere in being done with console generations and they're just going to keep iterating on the Xbox One until they stop making consoles. I don't expect a PS5 to happen this decade though. People are buying it in droves and I don't think we've really peaked yet in terms of software output.
 

rapid32.5

Member
2021 or later launch would be fine by me, with Scorpio on the way I doubt I would be impressed with PS5/XB2 visuals at launch. So the longer they take the more power will be under the hood.
I'm actually contempt will visuals as they are, I'm yet to see how this gen is better than the last one at this point in time. For two years we have been getting remasters mostly.
 

deadlast

Member
This may sound crazy, but I think with the pro and Scorpio we won't see a new system for at least 5 more years.

And I think we may see cloud offloading for processing. We may be on the cusp of client based gaming. We could have fat client/thin client solutions in the next gen.
 
I'm expecting MS to release new hardware every 4 years. I'm expecting sony to follow suit. The hardware will be whatever is "in season".

My two cents.
 
I still think PS5 will hit for holiday 2019. I think PS4 will be on it's last legs in 2,5 years, heck we are already nearing 60 million sold. Sony wouldn't wait for another year for a possible power boost.
 

jdstorm

Banned
Going to answer the OP question.

I'd Say Scorpio is Xbox 2, so thats coming Holiday 2017.

As for the PS5. I suspect Sony will want a device that can do current gen visuals at 4K and can be sold for $399 at launch

I think the greatest visual change next generation will be caused by the increased CPU allowing for more interactivity between multiple systems.

So whenever a 10+Gflop GPU device with 16-32 GB of HBM Ram and a CPU that wont bottleneck it is availiable at that $399 price point. Thats when the PS5 will launch
 
I expect Sony and MS to cower in fear of the massive success that is and will be the Switch, therefore I expect the NeXbox and PS5 to come out never and for Sony and MS to release weekly ads of Shuhei and Spencer bowing to their Nintendo shrines.
 

BaasRed

Banned
2020 imo


Ryzen CPU
Vega GPU

Maybe ram ddr5?

That would be amazing!
----------------------------------------

If the next cycle starts with MS and they want to drop Xbox One and go for Scorpio, then Sony might send out a new console earlier than expected (2018?). Otherwise I can see both consoles hitting store shelves @Holiday2019
 
Just because the current consoles have an x86 architecture doesn't mean it will be BC with the current system. Its not like you pop a PS4 game into a PS5 and it magically works with no effort. The reason this works on PC is mostly because of Windows. I am pretty sure the reason Sony went with x86 was to help developers with their game engines and so that they can approach different vendors to manufacturer the chips or memory. I have not read anything about BC in Sonys plans for future hardware.

However they can probably emulate a Jaguar chip on a Zen chip so I am sure PS5 will probably play BC games.
 

Inuhanyou

Believes Dragon Quest is a franchise managed by Sony
It doesn't mean its going to happen 100%, it just means its way easier and more likely than going from Cell to Jaguar for example
 
Fall 2020. It will e announced earlier that year. I don't think Sony would want to release the next system before they have made tons more money selling the PS4.
 
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