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Sony doubles forecast of annual loss to $6.4bn

M.D

Member
What happened to the whole "Future TV" invesment they talked about not to long ago? What are they waiting for Apple to be first to the market and get %90 of the market?

This. But they should stay in manufacturing not leave it. Sony aren't in a position to become a global content/media player like Disney or Time Warner.

Being a Japanese company they aren't able to make inroads into the majority of markets such as the UK, USA etc because of the laws on foreign media ownership.

Sony make cash off their music division but are basically keeping their head above water with their film & TV division.



I was under the impression that Sony were heavily indebted, do they have cash large reserves?

What do you mean by this? I thought Sony Pictures is one of their few profitable divisions?
 

Miles X

Member
I swear, not many companies could behave the way Sony do and still operate. I can't see them getting back to the top in any product range they offer, competant sure, but the days of leading are over.
 

Stumpokapow

listen to the mad man
A huge amount of Bluray players are sold. Problem, just like with TVs, is that Sony have nothing in their Bluray players that the competitors don't. They're also more expensive.

The business term for this is "Commoditization", and it's very bad for a company like Sony and generally good for low-end Korean or Chinese firms.
 

Divvy

Canadians burned my passport
From the OT thread, new campaign to cross promote their products and IPs:

23146750.png


iipAW.jpg


picardwtfisthisshit.jpg
 

Meier

Member
Price is all that matters for most consumers. Vizio was the first step in killing Sony's TV line and then Samsung managed to put out a product that was as good or better and much cheaper on top of that. The business is doomed (quite clearly).
 

M.D

Member
I swear, not many companies could behave the way Sony do and still operate. I can't see them getting back to the top in any product range they offer, competant sure, but the days of leading are over.

You don't have to be the market leader to make money.
Sony will be more than happy to finally make some profit at the cost of not being the market leader.
 
You don't have to be the market leader to make money.
Sony will be more than happy to finally make some profit at the cost of not being the market leader.

Sony gave up being the market leader on anything they make a long time ago and they have still somehow managed to lose 6.4 billion dollars in a year. Absolutely horrific.
 

Miles X

Member
You don't have to be the market leader to make money.
Sony will be more than happy to finally make some profit at the cost of not being the market leader.

Sony don't ever seem to make money unless they're market leader though, that's the problem. Pride before profit, obsessed with aiming to be #1. Look at all the unessaccery PS3 price cuts (well not all obviously)
 
You don't have to be the market leader to make money.
Sony will be more than happy to finally make some profit at the cost of not being the market leader.

That's the ticket, for Sony it costs money to be market leader as they need to lose money on certain key products to maintain market share. Seems like a poor trade-off to me, and I'm sure Kaz will see it too.

If his plan doesn't include exiting the LCD TV market then he isn't serious about making Sony a profitable company.
 
Damn, Sony.

Selling overpriced bullshit for all these years is finally coming back to bite them in the ass.

It's getting harder and harder to tell the difference between a $2500 Sony Vaio and a $1000 Lenovo. Or a $3500 XBR and a $900 Samsung.

Their perceived brand value is dropping like crazy.

Exactly whats killing them. They really think that Sony logo on those items is enough to sell them at those prices. Glad its biting them in the ass.
 
If his plan doesn't include exiting the LCD TV market then he isn't serious about making Sony a profitable company.
I wonder if they should go one step further and exit the TV business altogether; although I doubt it will happen.

I don't think 3D, 4K, CLED, any of it will change consumer views on flat panels. As mentioned previously they've become severely commoditized and people simply see no differentiation.
In this thread, people moan and show concern because Sony is in a financial black hole.
I've seen more schadenfreude than concern.
 

Bumhead

Banned
In this thread, people moan and show concern because Sony is in a financial black hole.

In the Wii U thread, people moan because Nintendo FanboizTM are pleased Nintendo makes a profit.
 

BD1

Banned
I said this in another thread, but Sony is the new Kodak. Or IBM of the mid 90s.

Its a bloated company that was slow to adopt newer technology, carries huge financial liability and has a corporate culture that is irrelevant.

I'm not saying turn around is impossible, look at Kodak's current restructure, but Kaz has his work cut out for him. PlayStation 4 is going to be a very interesting and important device for Sony.
 
You don't have to be the market leader to make money.
Sony will be more than happy to finally make some profit at the cost of not being the market leader.

But in several cases (like their home consoles strategy) Sony's entire business model is built on the idea of becoming the market leader and reaping the natural benefits of it.
 

kuroshiki

Member
I swear, not many companies could behave the way Sony do and still operate. I can't see them getting back to the top in any product range they offer, competant sure, but the days of leading are over.

Oh you haven't seen anything yet.

I said this in another thread, but Sony is the new Kodak. Or IBM of the mid 90s.

Its a bloated company that was slow to adopt newer technology, carries huge financial liability and has a corporate culture that is irrelevant.

I'm not saying turn around is impossible, look at Kodak's current restructure, but Kaz has his work cut out for him. PlayStation 4 is going to be a very interesting and important device for Sony.

While I agree sony is bloated and really really needs massive restructure to survive, I don't think Kodak is really an appropriate example to explain Sony's trouble.

Kodak's problem was not able to adapt digital age at all. Their product just simply SUCKED, therefore they just can't compete at all. Sony on other hand still has other divisions that can compete with other market leaders and has other arms like music and movie.
 
I said this in another thread, but Sony is the new Kodak. Or IBM of the mid 90s.

Its a bloated company that was slow to adopt newer technology, carries huge financial liability and has a corporate culture that is irrelevant.

I'm not saying turn around is impossible, look at Kodak's current restructure, but Kaz has his work cut out for him. PlayStation 4 is going to be a very interesting and important device for Sony.

How much does the games division account for in terms of company profit? I know for Ms it is a small percentage.
 
From the OT thread, new campaign to cross promote their products and IPs:

23146750.png

Random guy doing a flying kick while playing a guitar in the background. Spider-Man about to smash some womans camera with his knee. Random arm holding a tablet.

I'm not sure what this is trying to advertise.... but this advertisement is a pretty good representation of Sony as a whole. Directionless and out of touch with the consumer.
 
I wonder if they should go one step further and exit the TV business altogether; although I doubt it will happen.

I don't think 3D, 4K, CLED, any of it will change consumer views on flat panels. As mentioned previously they've become severely commoditized and people simply see no differentiation.

I think what Sony will do is exit the LCD market and concentrate on emerging technologies like CLED for display technology. They have already exited the mobile display market by merging it with the Japanese government's Innovation Corp.

In Sony's place I would also be looking at consolidation, simply, there are too many Japanese CE companies. Korea has one marquee brand, Samsung, and one lesser brand, LG. Japan has got Sony, Panasonic, Toshiba and Sharp all making the same products all as Marquee brands. It's time for some consolidation, I think Sony and Toshiba would make a good fit...
 

1-D_FTW

Member
In this thread, people moan and show concern because Sony is in a financial black hole.

In the Wii U thread, people moan because Nintendo FanboizTM are pleased Nintendo makes a profit.

They also get incredibly defensive and hostile when told 99 percent of the smoke is blowing towards it being a 360/PS3 class performer.

Probably why you shouldn't assign 10 extreme and dedicated posters to "gaf opinion". Because it makes everything seem like a contradiction if you simply things that much.
 
Like many other people said Sony needs to get out of the LCD TV market or TV business all together .
When you have been losing billions over last 10 years on one part of the company with no signs of it becoming profitable it's time for it to go .
PS4 is going to play a major part in the upcoming years for Sony the questions is how are they going to handled it .
 
I'm pretty sure that up until very recently Ford owned Mazda. I'd forgotten about Mistubishi, they're into everything, banking, shipbuilding, cars, electronics.

Mitsubishi even makes nuclear reactors...

IIRC, Ford recently acquired Mazda (in the last 6-7 years, or so) and still owns them.
 

Ikael

Member
They are in denial, trying hard to convince theirselves that they are Apple and that, consequently; they can charge a premium and force feed every single propietary format down their consumer's troaths. No, they are not.
 

Oppo

Member
Sony gave up being the market leader on anything they make a long time ago and they have still somehow managed to lose 6.4 billion dollars in a year. Absolutely horrific.

Actually... not to be that guy, but you are only thinking of consumer-facing products, and only lately, and only in north america.

They still kick plenty of ass in high-end video production, believe me. Also they have a fairly smart operation in South / Latin America selling playstations still.

No doubt they need to clean house (like no doubt at all - also no doubt that they are doing exactly this now) and the Bravia stuff needs an overhaul but this specific shitty one-time thing doesn't have much to do with their decision-making process.
 
They don't need to trim the fat, they need to lyposuction the shit out of that bitch. They should sell their TV division, they should probably sell their music and movies divisions as well. They should take the money from that and pour it into a far more focused Sony driving a few key products in various markets: Phones, Games, Cameras, Medical technology, software and R&D. They are too bloated and its that simple.

I kind of worry about how Hirai got to power. Stringer struggled against the corporate culture of Sony, he failed to do a lot that was promised because he constantly had people working against him. He wanted to get rid of all the propiertary nonsense across the organisation, yet you'd still have Sony-Ericsson doing it constantly. I remember reading interviews with him about his struggles, and he said something very interesting is that Sony has a LOT of sub factions, and nearly all of them have a mindset that if it wasn't invented there its rubbish. Sometimes this would even come down to a micro level on individual teams, so they would constantly be recreating the same products over and over throughout the organisation.

I worry that Hirai has gotten in through the people who worked against Stringer, if so I don't really have much faith in him restoring the company. He won't do it without the lyposuction, because you'll never heal if you keep getting cut somewhere else everytime you put on a bandage.

I'd like them to stay in TVs, but it seems silly to stay there now.

They should maintain their best, youngest and brightest talents and put them into positions of power where they can push innovative ideas.

Sony need to be on the cutting edge, they say that is their culture - but their culture has been one of a follower for a long time.
 

Bumhead

Banned
They also get incredibly defensive and hostile when told 99 percent of the smoke is blowing towards it being a 360/PS3 class performer.

Probably why you shouldn't assign 10 extreme and dedicated posters to "gaf opinion". Because it makes everything seem like a contradiction if you simply things that much.

I'm not simplifying anything, just making an observation.

I'm no Nintendo fanboy but it always puzzled me when people questioned why people cared about the fact Nintendo made profit. I'm all for a healthy industry that makes money and is successful. The fact that Nintendo makes money is of a damn site more comfort to me as a consumer than this thread is. Especially as someone who typically buys and still owns Sony hardware.
 

Combichristoffersen

Combovers don't work when there is no hair
I'm pretty sure that up until very recently Ford owned Mazda. I'd forgotten about Mistubishi, they're into everything, banking, shipbuilding, cars, electronics.

I don't think they ever completely owned Mazda, it seems they had a ~33% controlling interest stake at most, while nowadays they seem to have a ~3% stake in Mazda.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazda#Partnership_with_Ford_Motor_Company

I'm not simplifying anything, just making an observation.

I'm no Nintendo fanboy but it always puzzled me when people questioned why people cared about the fact Nintendo made profit. I'm all for a healthy industry that makes money and is successful. The fact that Nintendo makes money is of a damn site more comfort to me as a consumer than this thread is. Especially as someone who typically buys and still owns Sony hardware.

I don't think anyone's opposed to Nintendo making a profit, it's more Nintendo being stingy cheapskates who'll sell you ~5 year old technology as new shit rather than spend some of those profits on more powerful hardware that seems to piss off people. Still, it makes perfect sense for Nintendo. Low risk, high profitability, and a rabid fanbase that would buy Iwata's soiled boxers if they were put up for sale.
 
Actually... not to be that guy, but you are only thinking of consumer-facing products, and only lately, and only in north america.

They still kick plenty of ass in high-end video production, believe me. Also they have a fairly smart operation in South / Latin America selling playstations still.

No doubt they need to clean house (like no doubt at all - also no doubt that they are doing exactly this now) and the Bravia stuff needs an overhaul but this specific shitty one-time thing doesn't have much to do with their decision-making process.

This "shitty specific one-time thing" has been going on for 4 years now. There is something fundamentally wrong at Sony and hopefully Kaz can get them back on the rails.


I don't think they ever completely owned Mazda, it seems they had a ~33% controlling interest stake at most, while nowadays they seem to have a ~3% stake in Mazda.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazda#Partnership_with_Ford_Motor_Company
Ah, thanks!

Still, the demise of the Japanese Corporation on the world stage has been dramatic. And I don't think that it can all be blamed on the Yen and the Tsunami.
 

Forsete

Member
Actually... not to be that guy, but you are only thinking of consumer-facing products, and only lately, and only in north america.

They still kick plenty of ass in high-end video production, believe me. Also they have a fairly smart operation in South / Latin America selling playstations still.

We do this in every Sony thread. People are just clueless.
 
What other companies besides Sony manufacters Mp3 players, DVD players, BRD players, game consoles, TVs, cameras, and phones; in addition to being a major media content producer? Jeeze, it's no wonder they're floundering, they have their hands in too many cookie jars. In my opinion they should sell off their mP3, phone, camera , laptop, and tablet business and focus on content and stationary delivery devices for that content. Their original intent with the Playstation was to own the home, that should be their operating mission.
 

kuroshiki

Member
This "shitty specific one-time thing" has been going on for 4 years now. There is something fundamentally wrong at Sony and hopefully Kaz can get them back on the rails.



Ah, thanks!

Still, the demise of the Japanese Corporation on the world stage has been dramatic. And I don't think that it can all be blamed on the Yen and the Tsunami.

This is actually the primary reason.

Japan is highly depends on export. Strong yen really does hurt. I'm surprised Japanese government is not doing anything effective.

What other companies besides Sony manufacters Mp3 players, DVD players, BRD players, game consoles, TVs, cameras, and phones; in addition to being a major media content producer? Jeeze, it's no wonder they're floundering they have their hands in too many cookie jars. In my opinion they should sell off their TV, phone, and camera business and focus on content and the delivery devices for that content, i.e. disk players, an online marketplace, tablets, laptops, and a gaming console.

Their camera division actually makes money, and will be the core business since they are now moving toward to medical equipment business. Besides, Sony cameras are pretty DAMN GOOD. Sony also will be making phones, no questions about it.
 

Combichristoffersen

Combovers don't work when there is no hair
What other companies besides Sony manufacters Mp3 players, DVD players, BRD players, game consoles, TVs, cameras, and phones; in addition to being a major media content producer? Jeeze, it's no wonder they're floundering, they have their hands in too many cookie jars. In my opinion they should sell off their TV, phone, and camera business and focus on content and the delivery devices for that content, i.e. disk players, an online marketplace, tablets, laptops, and a gaming console.

Isn't their camera business fairly profitable due to being involved in medical equipment technology?

As for Sony making tablets, they already tried, but not a single fuck was given.
 

mclaren777

Member
As someone who buys primarily Sony products (PS3, TV, sound system, MP3 player, etc) I'm greatly troubled by this news.
 
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