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[Y2Kev]

Protip Sony: Stuff like this isn't worth $40 in the slightest, in fact, you'd be pushing it at 99c on the appstore.

Even non iOS quality shovelware games like UC are pushing it at $40, $30 would be a much better pricepoint for those kinds of titles.

Most titles are $30.

 

[Snakeyes]

How much has the 3DS sold so far?

 

[Mooreberg]

It is going to be hard for dedicated handhelds to compete with price of iOS and Android games. People are not going to care how much better they are at 35 to 40x the price.

 

[Beth Cyra]

What details? is it the Memory cards? $250 for such a beastly machine is amazingly low. People were rejoicing when Sony announced the price but after Nintendo dropped the 3DS's price people started overlooking the technology that is packed for such a low price. Now you hear stupid shit like "Sony being arrogant for pricing the Vita at $250" according to Forbes.

The people who were excited are hard core players, people who will go out and buy day 1.

Those people existed for 3DS and they will exist for Vita, but that population is going to be tiny compared to what they are going to need to be successful. Most people will not be willing to spend that on a dedicated handheld regardless of how powerful it is.

 

[Alex]

Outside of nintendos main franchise refreshes I don't see the handheld market in the us keeping it together much longer. Vita is going to crater, a shame because I liked the psp software so much but it's such insanely limited appeal. Teenagers and adults just aren't going to carry those things around anymore, not like nintendos child heavy focus with Mario kart and the ilk.

Everyone else is going to want a more sensible device, like a phone or a tablet, for any mobile use (and there are plenty of good games out there on ios and android). Anything else is probably competing more with home consoles and you can't even get tv out or controller use like models in the last line.

I just don't think they really thought it through, there's a lot of different ways they could've gone yet they just made a straight up psp2

 

[nextgeneration]

How much has the 3DS sold so far?

It just passed the 4 million mark in Japan recently. Forgot what the US numbers are but it's tracking ahead of DS sales in same time frame.

 

[waicol]

How much has the 3DS sold so far?

made up numbers but pretty much 12 million worldwide.

 

[Kermit The Frog]

Most titles are $30.

Point still stands, games like that aren't worth $10, doesn't matter whether they're $30 or $40, they're still grossly overpriced. Even games like UC are pushing it at $30 so a game like that iOS shovelware crap selling for that price is a joke and shows that Sony do not understand the average consumer's perception of value of certain games.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

Agreed. Thankfully, consumers are in agreement. Android and iPhone revenues are in a freefall as we speak:

So how about a chart with credible figures?

 

[Trojita]

the battery life, price of games and psn account restriction put me off.

The battery is great. Better than most portables at there. The price for games has been $29.99 for a lot of them.

 

[Raine]

I just don't think they really thought it through, there's a lot of different ways they could've gone yet they just made a straight up psp2

Could you list some of those ways? It seems like a lot of you are getting ahead of yourselves. It's only been 2 weeks since the release and there's no telling how this handheld will do in the West. May do everyone some good to wait it out before declaring Sony in trouble.

 

[frankie_baby]

It is going to be hard for dedicated handhelds to compete with price of iOS and Android games. People are not going to care how much better they are at 35 to 40x the price.

Maybe I'm atypical but none of my friends own Iphones though quite a lot own androids (myself included) and yes they play games on their phones but not a single one has ever paid for one

 

[stuminus3]

It's astounding that Nintendo have thrived in the home console/handheld market for three decades in the face of all kinds of super-popular competition and massive industry paradigm shifts with a single mantra - make highly desirable software that people want, only available on a Nintendo system - yet dedicated handheld gaming is still "coming to an end" and all that crap.

Yes this is relevant to this thread. It does not make on iota of difference how popular iOS is if the only place I can play the hot new Mario game is on a Nintendo system. Sony, you know what you need to do.

 

[Famassu]

the $50 price point for the software is what will really kill them.

Have you ignored the fact that Vita has multiple price-points for its games? Not every game is 50$ (so far there's only one).

 

[diffusionx]

The market that Sony aims to reach with Vita definitely exists.

The problem is though that Nintendo has stepped into that same market and secured games like Monster Hunter, Dragon Quest, Kingdom Hearts, Resident Evil, etc. for 3DS. That's a very different situation compared to last gen when 3rd parties generally avoided DS for the first few years.

Well, if Nintendo is busy siphoning off all of the games Sony would need to secure an audience for PSV, then Sony really is in trouble.

 

[Trojita]

Protip Sony: Stuff like this isn't worth $40 in the slightest, in fact, you'd be pushing it at 99c on the appstore.

Even non iOS quality shovelware games like UC are pushing it at $40, $30 would be a much better pricepoint for those kinds of titles.

There's shovelware at full price on every system ever released. Are you guys just trying to troll?

 

[Xater]

It is going to be hard for dedicated handhelds to compete with price of iOS and Android games. People are not going to care how much better they are at 35 to 40x the price.

The time I actually play on the go is perfectly satisfied with iOS gaming. I never actually used my DS or PSP on the go. Those were mostly used at home.

 

[BurntPork]

Protip Sony: Stuff like this isn't worth $40 in the slightest, in fact, you'd be pushing it at 99c on the appstore.

Even non iOS quality shovelware games like UC are pushing it at $40, $30 would be a much better pricepoint for those kinds of titles.

How are you still here?

I love how you did no research and just embarrassed yourself.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

So how about a chart with credible figures?

I can't find it. School me. I'll happily eat my hat (I don't wear hats, so I'll have to buy one first) if people will point me to the real numbers that demonstrate why that chart is laughably misguided. As I said, I don't have anything invested in the growth of the smartphone gaming markets. I'm neither an Apple investor nor a games developer eyeing up the AppStore and Android marketplaces.

So, we're cool, right? I was a fool to post that chart, and I was obviously trolling to proliferate my pro cellphone gaming agenda. You got me. Now, please, enlighten me.

 

[SneakyStephan]

Am I the only one who'd rather stick needles in my balls than depend on my phone for gaming on the go? Seriously onscreen controls can fuck right off.

Yeah, I've nothing against smartphones out of principle or anything, it's just that without proper tactile feedback, plenty of buttons and no input lag there is pretty much no point bother with them for traditional gaming.

Sure turn based or slow paced simple games work fine on them but they are physically incapable of ever replacing handhelds.
Noone is going to put a load of large buttons and thumbsticks on a cellphone... (well they can try, but noone who just wants a phone will buy it then).

 

[Kermit The Frog]

How are you still here?

I love how you did no research and just embarrassed yourself.

The game is around £20 in the UK which is $30 rather than $40 as I previously thought, I was $10 off calm down.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

VITA AMBASSADORS CHARGE!!!

 

[popeutlal]

Mobile gaming is a factor in Japan, arguably longer than it has been in the West. Didn't stop 3DS from achieving the single best month for a console ever in Japan this December.

Even so, Super Mario 3D Land sold in excess of half a million in the USA in November. Pokemon is selling in the multi-millions despite having launched 9 months ago; selling more, in fact, than the titles sold in the heyday of the DS in 2006. We don't know how Mario Kart 7 and Super Mario 3D Land did in December, but Nintendo is traditionally very strong in the run up to Christmas.

In terms of pure profit, when single sets of games are outstripping the profit margins of the entire App Store service, it doesn't particularly point to your imminent glorious smartphone future.

Ok you guys keep saying the same thing over and over again "Nintendo games are making money". Yes everyone understands that.

What I'm and the article and a tiny few others are saying is that in the near future dedicated handhelds will not be on the market anymore.

 

[GTP_Daverytimes]

The people who were excited are hard core players, people who will go out and buy day 1.

Those people existed for 3DS and they will exist for Vita, but that population is going to be tiny compared to what they are going to need to be successful. Most people will not be willing to spend that on a dedicated handheld regardless of how powerful it is.

When the price was announced many of us in the threads said the same thing, one conclusion i came up with was that it was up to Sony to advertise and entice people to buy it. It's up to Sony to let people know what they are getting and how awesome it is. People pay $700-$800-$900 for Ipads when you can get the same performance for $450-$550, price is never an issue for consumers the issue is letting them know. If Sony fucks up their campaign then no one will know and word of mouth alone will not help much.

 

[Hyuga]

"Sony has approached the PS Vita launch in America with arrogance, pricing the console high"

I'm laughing my ass of! Check the hardware again and then tell me again "it's priced high".

 

[airmangataosenai]

I remember how people waited for the PS3 calling people who bought at launch "Beta Testers", then the later models lost BC.

 

[Lonely1]

Ok you guys keep saying the same thing over and over again "Nintendo games are making money". Yes everyone understands that.

What I'm and the article and a tiny few others are saying is that in the near future dedicated handhelds will not be on the market anymore.

Define near future. 2014? Yes, there will be dedicated handhelds in the market.

 

[Kermit The Frog]

There's shovelware at full price on every system ever released. Are you guys just trying to troll?

Of course but this game is Sony produced which is why I used it as an example as shovelware developer #4282 would have been a bad example as they're oblivious to the wider market and just follow what they've always done.

 

[WillyFive]

The amount of ignorance here is outstanding.

You may not like smartphone gaming, but as far as the public is concerned, it's more desirable than having to buy a different system to carry around just to play games (and the graphics are just as good and better, plus it has Angry Birds).

Whether the Vita succeeds is in the hands of Sony (and I assure they will give it everything they've got), but the article is valid.

 

[Mooreberg]

Maybe I'm atypical but none of my friends own Iphones though quite a lot own androids (myself included) and yes they play games on their phones but not a single one has ever paid for one

Free is hard to compete with as well. Amazon is basically giving away a game every day on their app store. The quality can vary wildly, but the worst case scenario there is you waste five minutes on something and then delete it.

The time I actually play on the go is perfectly satisfied with iOS gaming. I never actually used my DS or PSP on the go. Those were mostly used at home.

I think that has become the case for a lot of people. They'd rather just take the tablet or phone that also does everything else. I'm not sure to what extent Vita can run regular Android applications, but Sony should make it as compatible as possible. If they try to wall it off like Amazon they're not going to have the units sold or the brand awareness to pull it off.

 

[rpmurphy]

Point still stands, games like that aren't worth $10, doesn't matter whether they're $30 or $40, they're still grossly overpriced. Even games like UC are pushing it at $30 so a game like that iOS shovelware crap selling for that price is a joke and shows that Sony do not understand the average consumer's perception of value of certain games.

Games get discounted, have sales, bundles, and other promotions over time to attract lower income groups and people who are unwilling to buy games at launch MSRP. Over time, there will be a lot of games that will be priced over a very wide range which makes the system attractive software-wise. This doesn't happen in the first month.

 

[The Faceless Master]

What details? is it the Memory cards? $250 for such a beastly machine is amazingly low. People were rejoicing when Sony announced the price but after Nintendo dropped the 3DS's price people started overlooking the technology that is packed for such a low price. Now you hear stupid shit like "Sony being arrogant for pricing the Vita at $250" according to Forbes.

everything they left out since then!

game prices.
no built in user addressable storage.
memory card prices.
one account per system.
mobile internet details.
etc...

after E3, just about every time they announced something new about the Vita, it was bad.

 

[stuminus3]

Ok you guys keep saying the same thing over and over again "Nintendo games are making money". Yes everyone understands that.

What I'm and the article and a tiny few others are saying is that in the near future dedicated handhelds will not be on the market anymore.

This doesn't make a single lick of sense. Nintendo don't make games for smartphones, and I highly doubt they're in the market for making one of their own any time soon. Do you see?

Software.

 

[Opus Angelorum]

I'm laughing my ass of! Check the hardware again and then tell me again "it's priced high".

Well I guess this highlights a huge problem the PS3 had, perceived value versus actual.

 

[Version 3.0]

So are they saying they're extrapolating revenue based on iTunes rankings or am I mistaken?

I'm curious now about their methods. It does indeed sound like they have no sales data at all: no units, no revenue. They're not estimating a total based on a partial read like most sales tracking services. I don't see how "use sessions" is meaningful.

I mean, I have 25 games on my iPhone, but only paid for 3 of them, and 2 were discounted. Some of the others are trial versions, some are full games that were free for a day or two. Others have ads. A couple have in-game purchases that can be made with real money (never gonna happen) or in-game achievement points (done a few times).

I wonder how much money their methods would "estimate" that I've contributed with my "use sessions". It seems to me that such a complex marketplace would be almost impossible to analyze without at least a reasonably large sampling of hard sales data.

 

[diffusionx]

The time I actually play on the go is perfectly satisfied with iOS gaming. I never actually used my DS or PSP on the go. Those were mostly used at home.

That sounds like me as well. I usually just play games on the go for a few minutes at a time and iOS stuff is fine for that. Hell, I usually play Solitaire. People want to rag on the lack of buttons but, you know, not every game on iOS uses a virtual d-pad. Lots of games are designed around the input system and they are FINE.

I guess if I took PT more or traveled more I would want something meatier, or maybe not! There's meaty games on iOS no matter what people say.

Point is, I'm not sure the audience for "people who want a handheld with buttons and are willing to pay 30x+ more for the games and are willing to accept the trade-offs of a handheld and are willing to carry an additional device around with them" is that large.

 

[Anth0ny]

Uncharted+memory card bundle for $250 waaaaaaaaaaaaay before a price drop.

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

First the 3DS and now is the VITA. Just wanting some clicks.

2001, according to Forbes
http://www.forbes.com/2001/01/25/0125disaster.html

Ahahahahaha. Oh man.

 

[The Faceless Master]

It's astounding that Nintendo have thrived in the home console/handheld market for three decades in the face of all kinds of super-popular competition and massive industry paradigm shifts with a single mantra - make highly desirable software that people want, only available on a Nintendo system - yet dedicated handheld gaming is still "coming to an end" and all that crap.

Yes this is relevant to this thread. It does not make on iota of difference how popular iOS is if the only place I can play the hot new Mario game is on a Nintendo system. Sony, you know what you need to do.

Unchart3ds

 

[Famassu]

It is going to be hard for dedicated handhelds to compete with price of iOS and Android games. People are not going to care how much better they are at 35 to 40x the price.

People will pay for quality. I don't see anyone having any problems paying 39,99$ for Super Mario 3D Land.

 

[Mooreberg]

everything they left out since then!

game prices.
no built in user addressable storage.
memory card prices.
one account per system.
mobile internet details.
etc...

after E3, just about every time they announced something new about the Vita, it was bad.

It is the razor and blades approach but the mobile market consists of people that have bought $5.99 4GB SDHC cards in the past few weeks. Microsoft perihperal pricing will crash and burn.

People will pay for quality. I don't see anyone having any problems paying 39,99$ for Super Mario 3D Land.

Even Gamecube couldn't keep Nintendo games from selling well. I'm more interested to see what happens with third party games. RE Revelations at $49.99 should be interesting.

 

[stuminus3]

Unchart3ds

Haha, not quite what I meant. But Mario X Drake could be fun.

 

[krumble]

the battery life, price of games and psn account restriction put me off.

Battery life is way better than my 3DS which basically dies after about a day of walking round with it in my bag

 

[bigtroyjon]

I'm laughing my ass of! Check the hardware again and then tell me again "it's priced high".

PS3 was a bargain at $600 when "checking the hardware", how did that work out?

 

[Risk Breaker]

I'm laughing my ass of! Check the hardware again and then tell me again "it's priced high".

Nah they're right it should be 700 or 40 a month for two years, like the superphones. They are too arrogant pricing it at less than half!!

Also I'm fucking tired of that "games aren't worth more than 99c!!". Ugh.

 

[Kermit The Frog]

Games get discounted, have sales, bundles, and other promotions over time to attract lower income groups and people who are unwilling to buy games at launch MSRP. Over time, there will be a lot of games that will be priced over a very wide range which makes the system attractive software-wise. This doesn't happen in the first month.

My point was more about Sony's perception of games like Reality Fighters, which are by all accounts shovelware iOS style games, somehow being worth a similar price to full fledged platform differentiating titles like LBP and UC. Reality Fighters isn't some shovelware game produced by some no name developer completely ignorant of market trends but rather a game that Sony felt was the kind of game they wanted to represent the Vita to the world and felt was worth full retail price which is completely ludicrous and is not a good show for Sony understanding the average consumer's perception of the value of games.

 

[GCX]

Ok you guys keep saying the same thing over and over again "Nintendo games are making money". Yes everyone understands that.

What I'm and the article and a tiny few others are saying is that in the near future dedicated handhelds will not be on the market anymore.

That may be true.

At the moment thought Nintendo makes a hundred times times more profit on a dedicated handheld than they would on Android/iOS. And when the time comes that the profit is no longer there, they'll move their games to a new platform (whatever that it).

Right now it's best to take it easy and see where the portable market is heading. App Store and stuff is most probably only the beginning of the evolution.

 

[flowsnake]

So what's kinda got to do with this?

aren't those about the awesome e-ink?

The Kindle Fire is just a straight tablet, not an e-ink book reader.

 

[Kandinsky]

Meh Vita will be fine, just wait till the games (MH, FF, MGS, KH and the like) start rolling. The thing doesnt even need a price drop, just lots and lots of wifi models available at launch in the west and it will sell eventually.

 

[Sadist]

Begun it has the portable wars