Technosteve
Banned
they should put a phone in the vita, it's the size of one of those android phones.
Might AS WELL
Might AS WELL
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Sony in big trouble with PS Vita, Portable market in perm decline, rotting - Forbes
- Thread starter marc^o^
- Start date
Nintendo DS having 36% despite being now a dead platform would be mighty impressive.Agreed. Thankfully, consumers are in agreement. Android and iPhone revenues are in a freefall as we speak:
GraveRobberX
Platinum Trophy: Learned to Shit While Upright Again.
One thing to note besides GAF thinking, is there really a demand for the Vita?
I mean does the regular/casual gamer really want to drop $250 for PSP2.0? or Sony was like look people are asking for it, we have to give them a newer version
Everywhere I go, I see DS variations, on buses, subway, hell even in shopping malls
You see kids just running holding their clam shelled console, and start playing on a bench, or while walking
I think I might have seen 3 PSP's in my travels in NYC in the last 6 months, 1 was PSP Go, the other 2 regular PSP's
I mean does the regular/casual gamer really want to drop $250 for PSP2.0? or Sony was like look people are asking for it, we have to give them a newer version
Everywhere I go, I see DS variations, on buses, subway, hell even in shopping malls
You see kids just running holding their clam shelled console, and start playing on a bench, or while walking
I think I might have seen 3 PSP's in my travels in NYC in the last 6 months, 1 was PSP Go, the other 2 regular PSP's
Agreed. Thankfully, consumers are in agreement. Android and iPhone revenues are in a freefall as we speak:
The chart has been discredited about a billion times on this forum. You've got 2 dead handhelds in there, and the dubious grouping of all the iOS and Android software combined. It also doesn't represent how the portable market in its entirety expanded.
Auto_aim1
MeisaMcCaffrey
Nintendo's price cut was a genius move. People are completely fixated on the 3DS' current price point and expect Sony to do the same while ignoring the difference in specs. Don't think Sony can afford to drop the price for at least a year, but they should really bundle a 4 GB memory card with the Vita so that people don't have to spend more just to run a game. Not offering a mem card is such a terrible move.
walking fiend
Member
Nails it.
So, not only Vita is doomed, but 3DS will suddenly stop selling and crawl to 20m LTD?
what the fuck is this shit?
Whole AppStore market revenue was like 4 billion since inception few years ago until few months ago. And Android market is 1/4th of apples'.
slaughterking
Member
You make a good point. Maybe Apple should just release their stuff on iOS.
OH C'MON! It was a fucking desperate move, nothing genius about it.
Infernal Monkey
Member
Oh my, that article is so poorly written. Opening paragraph is a checklist cluserfuck of 'the, the, the, the'.
chaostrophy
Member
Agreed. Thankfully, consumers are in agreement. Android and iPhone revenues are in a freefall as we speak:
But that chart doesn't show absolute dollar amounts...are gamers actually ditching their DS and PSPs to play on smartphones, or is the smartphone revenue from people who never owned portable game machines to begin with and just play on smartphones because they already have them?
Steve Youngblood
Member
I honestly figured this would be the case. It was just the first chart I could find via a Google search, and I know people love graphics.
Basically, my point is that the sentiment that smartphone gaming is some garbage fad that will die and give the market back to dedicated gaming handhelds seems silly to me, even if I actually do believe there's still a place for dedicated gaming handhelds. I'll see if a better chart exists. Real work can wait, I suppose.
That's still a gross underestimation. If 3DS managed to sell well over half of 20 million in LESS than a year - of which at least 5-6 months were months during which it struggled to sell well - then even the most modest estimate for 3DS LTD sales after about three years in the market should be about 30-35 million, assuming it sells at the same-ish pace it has been selling so far.
This is simply not true. My godson and his little brother played Angry Birds on their father's smartphone (for awhile), yeah, but they got a 3DS + Mario Kart 7 & Super Mario 3D Land as christmas presents and they were really excited about it (so excited that they couldn't wait to get home & charge up their own 3DS, but had to play my copy of SM3D on my 3DS, which I had with me)
But what if it never even took any marketshare away from dedicated handhelds? It has probably taken some, but what if, like, 80-90% of people who play on smartphones are people who would never have even gotten a handheld, so they've expanded the market into a new direction instead of eaten away marketshare from dedicated devices.
Souldriver
Member
Agreed. Thankfully, consumers are in agreement. Android and iPhone revenues are in a freefall as we speak:
Shocking how PSP and DS revenue fell from 2009 to 2011. I don't see any immediate reason for this... Oh wait! I don't know where to being pointing out the flaws of that graph.
This argument is so fucking stupid. Until the iPhone transforms into a platform with big games and great controls, the comparison just doesn't add up. It's like saying people will stop buying Canons and Nikons now that mobile phones have a camera. There might be some overlap, sure. But there still is a market for high end professional photo cameras. Same thing rings true for dedicated gaming handhelds.
GrandHarrier
Member
Out of curiosity, how has it been discredited? And how is the DS "dead"? I still see games being made for it and selling. Especially for the past 2-3 years?
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
The hardware is fairly cheap, no idea what's Forbes ragging on there, but the games are definitely expensive. Especially so in a mind state of today's mobile game buyer.
Its not about being a phone idiot, its about reality. And the article did state that hadhelds are more popular in Japan compared to rest of the world where phone gaming is getting more and more popular. Soon PSV and 3DS type handhelds will be irrelevant.
I know you're angry, calm down a bit.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Not for a handheld, and that's the point. 3DS got smashed at $250 and had to make a huge price drop. Same thing will probably happen here.
Whether these companies want to admit it or not, there's a psychological price level associated with handhelds. My guess is that $199 would be the perfect spot.
Kazuma Kiryu
Member
i was thinking about picking up a vita at launch, but after trying it out in a demo event, i'll just wait instead. Had a chance to try out wipeout, uncharted, super stardust, little deviants, gravity daze, resistance and escape plan. Was mostly looking forward to gravity daze and super stardust and they didn't disappoint. Wipeout, uncharted and resistance was something i would prefer playing on my ps3 and escape plan and little deviants did nothing for me. The screen is gorgeous and the OS is great, but the price tag on everything (games, cards, system) is still a little high for me. I'll be waiting for a price drop AND more game announcements before jumping in, just like i'm waiting to buy a 3ds.
If anything the 20 million comment is proof of the author's ignorance. He's just throwing out a guess so safe and inevitable that it's worthless. He might as well have guessed that the 3DS will sell one more than its current LTD.
Dr. Zoidberg
Member
Personally, I feel like Vita will do about the same as PSP in the U.S. No better, no worse.
I have a feeling those who think "CoD Portable" is going to be a huge success are in for a big disappointment, though. My gut tells me the majority of the "CoD" audience isn't going to be interested in the Vita no matter what.
Certainly, A lot of people will stop buying "real" cameras for sure. Yes, there will still be an audience for the good stuff but it will be small and niche compared to what it used to be. A vast majority of teens growing up now will feel like their iPhone camera is all they need.
I have a feeling those who think "CoD Portable" is going to be a huge success are in for a big disappointment, though. My gut tells me the majority of the "CoD" audience isn't going to be interested in the Vita no matter what.
Certainly, A lot of people will stop buying "real" cameras for sure. Yes, there will still be an audience for the good stuff but it will be small and niche compared to what it used to be. A vast majority of teens growing up now will feel like their iPhone camera is all they need.
Smartphone and tablet gaming means shit to me. Whenever I try it I just can't accept less control than what a pad or analogue stick gives me. I tried metal slug on my android the other day and it while it's smooth the controls just make it harder.
As for the vita I'm interested and the price of the system is fine but I already own a 3ds and the price of the vita memory cards and games means a day 1 purchase with a couple of games and a 16 or 32gb card is just too much money for me.
As for the vita I'm interested and the price of the system is fine but I already own a 3ds and the price of the vita memory cards and games means a day 1 purchase with a couple of games and a 16 or 32gb card is just too much money for me.
Vita has a couple of Square Enix IPs already too + they'll get the better deal with Metal Gear Solid (the "HD" Collection, not just an overpriced, crappy & gimped MGS3)
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
Any evidence of it hitting 10 million? If it has crossed the 10 million barrier, it isn't outrageous to have it get somewhat close to the 16 mil by March.
They are probably hoping that the memcards will be their money-grabbing venue.
Agreed. Thankfully, consumers are in agreement. Android and iPhone revenues are in a freefall as we speak:
Pokemon black and white made more money for Nintendo than the entire app store has for Apple since it has existed. The chart is misleading.
Auto_aim1
MeisaMcCaffrey
They can break even quickly with a redesign if it ever happens. It may have been a desperate move but it negatively affects the Vita. What Sony should do now is add more value to the system to entice buyers.
walking fiend
Member
The point is, in terms of revenue, it hasn't even become that of a fad yet.
DS has sold around 600m software LTD if I remember correctly. At a price of $30, that will amount to 18 billion dollar, over 6 years.
Now, the AppStore, whole of it, including every single app game or not, revenue till some months ago was 4 billion. During a span of 3 years. That is, it is the whole pie is still less than half of that of DS.
Of course, unless you are to believe forcasters who said 2010-2011 revenue alone would be 10billion dollar for the whole market.
Souldriver
Member
That's....nice. PS2 about to bankrupt Sony.
3DS has sold over 4 million in Japan alone. 3m in both EU and NA doesn't seem too far-fetched, does it?
Rated-Rsuperstar
Member
Arrogance? lol Sony should be commended for getting the price down for something so packed with technology. It's something Apple would never do.
CounterSeal
Member
This is the same Sony that failed to bundle their new HD console with an HDMI cable. =/
Exterminieren
Banned
Sigh.
OK...
a)It's proportions of software. There's precisely nothing in that chart that states that DS software sales have declined. Smartphone software has increased, but so has the market as a whole.
b)DS is dead because... well, it's not the main handheld for Nintendo any more. The transition between handhelds is an area which NA is notorious for being slow at, so a lull is expected.
Mario and Pokemon games on DS have made significantly more profit than the entire App Store combined. Mario Kart DS has sold roughly as many copies worldwide and the original X Box did. More recently, Super Mario 3D Land and Mario Kart 7 have seen great levels of success... on 3DS.
If you fancy actually using facts and evidence rather than picking inaccurate figures out of the air, it would be appreciated.
The (main) problem isn't the price, the problem is getting those big smash games out on the system.
Games that are 'essential' to have, this is something Sony does not seem to want to do with it's handheld systems.
You can not get a mainline Pokemon on the Wii, it's handheld only. Sony only wants to invest in side story games and that will keep them from really booming in the west like the PSP did in Japan. The PSP started to get 'real' games in Japan and people bought the thing because that's where you need to be to continue to enjoy your favorite game series.
First party console studios like Naughty Dog need to start working on PS Vita exclusive projects in between console projects, that's the only way you'll get your console fanbase playing on the Vita in the west.
They need to push the thing for real.
Games that are 'essential' to have, this is something Sony does not seem to want to do with it's handheld systems.
You can not get a mainline Pokemon on the Wii, it's handheld only. Sony only wants to invest in side story games and that will keep them from really booming in the west like the PSP did in Japan. The PSP started to get 'real' games in Japan and people bought the thing because that's where you need to be to continue to enjoy your favorite game series.
First party console studios like Naughty Dog need to start working on PS Vita exclusive projects in between console projects, that's the only way you'll get your console fanbase playing on the Vita in the west.
They need to push the thing for real.
I honestly cannot wrap my head around how people think the US public will be more receptive to a new handheld than freaking Japan.
Is that what wishful thinking does to people?
Some of you need to take a moment to realize that, right now, there are absolutely no games with mass appeal (or even in relevant franchises sales-wise) announced for the US market. Even in Japan the line-up is lackluster, with, hell, enhanced ports of two PlayStation 2 RPGs being the biggest upcoming titles (and one of them is multiplatform).
If the Vita is suffering in Japan right now, it'll suffer a lot more in the West.
Is that what wishful thinking does to people?
Some of you need to take a moment to realize that, right now, there are absolutely no games with mass appeal (or even in relevant franchises sales-wise) announced for the US market. Even in Japan the line-up is lackluster, with, hell, enhanced ports of two PlayStation 2 RPGs being the biggest upcoming titles (and one of them is multiplatform).
If the Vita is suffering in Japan right now, it'll suffer a lot more in the West.
Souldriver
Member
Pai Pai Master
Banned
It does need a price drop, and the price drop will come. Sony consoles/handhelds being expensive for enthusiasts and early adopters is nothing new. It's fucking absurd to me that 3DS and Vita are "doomed" according to so many so-called experts, when they can't even recall what happened with PS3 a few years ago.
Pricing does not matter for these things for about the first year. Sony's already proven that. The PS3 and 360 wouldn't be on the market today if that were the case.
If 3DS continues to sell so well and Vita sells well based on the amount of hype it's been getting, I think all it's going to prove for the handheld industry is that smartphones and tablets are going to continue to grow in sales a massive amount as they become more widespread, and dedicated handhelds are going to continue to sell better generation over generation. Nothing is doomed.
DeaconKnowledge
Member
It's funny to watch the surprise and horror that the PS Vita that is almost literally just an upgraded PSP is selling poorly at launch with a poor game lineup.
Auto_aim1
MeisaMcCaffrey
That was err... interesting.
For the dead comment:
As hardware ages the interest in buying software for it declines. It's the reason why we get new hardware, and both PSP and DS are well above 6 years old at this point, and past their prime. PS3 and 360 software is going to slow down eventually too and be overtaken by revenue from phones, computers, and heck maybe even handhelds. Does that mean the console market is dead? No, it just means the hardware's aging.
For the discrediting part:
It's never been confirmed how Flurry got their information or how they guesstimated what percentage of Android or iOS software is actually games, and what's a Google Search app or a Restaurant Grading app. That's quite dubious. Secondly, it doesn't factor in the sure amount of software released for those platforms in comparison to the traditional handhelds and their average grosses. Lastly, it doesn't mention that the entire handheld market likely grew from when it was just PSP and DS.
Phone gaming has always been prevalent in Japan, it's never seemingly taken away from the handheld sales. Eventually convergence will take over. I don't think that's now.
Alligatorjandro
Banned
I'll get a Vita but not at launch.
Super Mario 3D Land had sold 500k copies in the couple of weeks after its release in North America too, it's probably sold a lot more in the weeks building up to Christmas as parents get their kids 3DSs and Marios. So... It's not like 3DS is unpopular in the west either.
Tylahedras
Banned
amazing that we can go from, "wow 250$?!" to, "wow... 250$..." in the span of like 6 months. goes to show how fast smart phones are improving.
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