Hero_of_the_Day
Member
I don't think there is a who or why. Who knows. Tony certainly never will. Also, I think it's an important distinction that it doesn't fade to black. It cuts to black and silence. I think that is hugely important.
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Sopranos ending.
- Thread starter TheOnlyOneHeEverFeared
- Start date
I don't think there is a who or why. Who knows. Tony certainly never will. Also, I think it's an important distinction that it doesn't fade to black. It cuts to black and silence. I think that is hugely important.
Killing_Joke
Member
He's dead. Been pointed out a million times but there were not so subtle hints sprinkled all season. Including broad daylight public whacking (which is ridiculous but whatever).
No one wants to see Tony killed. Chase didn't want to either apparently. In fact it would have been cheap and predictable.
What i don't like is Chase pulling a Nolan and talk their way out of answering the question. Just says he's dead, doesn't ruin anything.
No one wants to see Tony killed. Chase didn't want to either apparently. In fact it would have been cheap and predictable.
What i don't like is Chase pulling a Nolan and talk their way out of answering the question. Just says he's dead, doesn't ruin anything.
Rumblebones
Banned
There is no two ways about it. No interpretation, no choice - Tony is dead.
The entire last season specifically set up his death. Tony never saw it coming. He got shot in head at close range and never heard the gun go off.
The entire last season specifically set up his death. Tony never saw it coming. He got shot in head at close range and never heard the gun go off.
Vincent Alexander
Member
I am fine with Chase not saying one way or the other. Leave it up to the audience. There are too many people out there who think the creator's intent is law. At the end of the day, he can say Tony lived, but it wouldn't change the fact that I think Tony died.
I actually prefer that he did not say anything. You as the viewer are allowed to interpret the ending as you see fit. Blade Runner comes to mind as a movie whose impact is lessened by knowing the outcome.
biggersmaller
Banned
I don't like ambiguous endings. And yeah, if you have watch it 6 times and read interviews to make a case - it's ambiguous. The Sopranos doesn't elevate itself or enlighten viewers by cutting to black one of the most celebrated pieces of fiction.
Hero_of_the_Day
Member
I watched the show for the first time just a couple of years ago. Didn't read interviews or anything. I did know people were angry about the ending, but that was it. I thought on first view that he died. I didn't have all the deep thoughts on the subject that are out there. I just remember the second to last episode ending with that flashback to Tony and Bobby talking about how getting killed goes, and thought the way it cut to silence meant he was dead (feeling like we were being pulled towards the guy at the bar who then goes to the bathroom). I finished the show pretty late at night, and must have laid in bed for a couple of hours after just kind of freaked out by how chilling it was to me.
Not that I don't also agree with you about it being ambiguous. But, there are certainly people who thought he died without the aid of youtube analysis and interviews. Reading interviews after, my personal feelings are that they somehow failed with the ending and it was ambiguous, but it wasn't intentional.
XANDER CAGE
Member
I'll always get a kick out of people arguing about this ending as if there's a factual answer. There isn't, and there never will be, and that's the point. Both "member's only jacket guy is suspiciously focused on so he's a hitman" and "the tension is just there to give you a glimpse into how Tony views the world around him" are perfectly valid reads, because of course it was written and shot to provide all of these things to you. The sense of uncertainty the abrupt ending leaves you with, that makes you want to go back and map out that final scene and map out exactly what happened, is the entire point. Sometimes an ending is just a feeling, not a concrete explanation of what happens to characters in a literal plot.
It's the exact same as the pointless debate over Inception's spinning top.
Sometimes things that end with a question mark are just that - a question mark.
It's the exact same as the pointless debate over Inception's spinning top.
Does it fall over or not? Stomp and yell and moan all you like, but the fact is we don't see it, so it'll forever be up in the air. That's the point - the main character walks away from it too.
It's a brilliant ending, when you realize all the pieces are laid out in the final couple of seasons and the fact its still debated to this day, tells of the impact it had with viewers.
Chase is a genius. I am due for a re-watch, it's one of those rare shows along with Wire that I can revisit every couple of years.
Chase is a genius. I am due for a re-watch, it's one of those rare shows along with Wire that I can revisit every couple of years.
NervousXtian
Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
You are awfully sure about something that wasn't shown on camera.
If Chase wanted him dead for sure, he'd have shown it. He didn't. He had this ending in mind for years before it ended.
He left it up for interpretation for a reason, and it's fitting. Tony lives or dies forever.
Audioboxer
Member
Schrodingers Tony. He both dies and doesn't die. All questions answered.
I have to pile on and say great finale, ending and what a show. Someone mentioned The Shield earlier. While it's great too, it's not on the same level as The Sopranos.
The Wire vs The Sopranos is the bonkers debate to ignite.
I have to pile on and say great finale, ending and what a show. Someone mentioned The Shield earlier. While it's great too, it's not on the same level as The Sopranos.
The Wire vs The Sopranos is the bonkers debate to ignite.
Death Metalist
Member
Time to post this again. Fuck, I miss this show.
Hero_of_the_Day
Member
You chose two funny quotes since in neither one do I discuss my opinion on the ending and whether Tony dies or not.
As for what I do think, I think it's complicated. I think what happened in the show and what happened in the making of the show are two different things. I think Tony died. I don't think it was meant to be ambiguous. I think it was ambiguous, though, and from that Chase has refused to straight up give his opinion (which is all it would be at this point as a creator doesn't get to define his art).
I disagree that you have to explicitly show intent. Movies and TV shows would be pretty boring if that were the case.
Outside of that, I don't think you're "wrong" if you believe he lived. I think you're choosing a more boring ending that completely removes the impact of the ending. But, that's just my opinion.
brianjones
Member
"I bet you never hear it coming"
was literally a flashback scene in the penultimate episode
why did I click on this thread I can't deal
Vincent Alexander
Member
I completely agree with your first part. In fact, I always prefer ambiguity, as long as it doesn't feel ambigious in order to hide the writer's ineptitude.
Not to get sidetracked with Inception:
isn't the top his dead wife's, so it doesn't matter one way or the other because it wasn't actually his token? His was his wedding ring, I thought?
Premium Quality
Member
If only Meadow learned to properly park a car, we would have seen the show's real ending.
TheOnlyOneHeEverFeared
Member
Naw he's not dead. I was thinking about this till nearly 4 in the morning and I read all the articles and watched the videos and shit, and despite what they say, no. It's the end of his journey maybe, the cycle, but he's not dead. There was never gonna be a good ending for any of those characters really.
I always took that ending to just show that every time a door opens Tony is on edge as he thinks this might be the one, he's living on edge because of everything that's happened, while also trying to live a normal family life, something he's tried in vain to do throughout the show.
He probably gets whacked, but I never felt it happened at the end of that episode.
He probably gets whacked, but I never felt it happened at the end of that episode.
Patrick Bateman
Member
I need to buy the Sopranos on BR and rewatch the whole thing.
Ventilaator
Banned
Pretty sure I remember reading that in the original script, there was even more focus on the mysterious mystery guy in the diner before it cuts to black, and his presence in the scene was then edited down a bit.
I assume they did that to make it less obvious what happened, but they didn't consider that anything other than a corpse on the screen followed by eight different characters confirming the death may be too ambiguous for people to accept.
Tony died, the scene is edited in a way to try and point out how sudden it can be, end of TV show.
I assume they did that to make it less obvious what happened, but they didn't consider that anything other than a corpse on the screen followed by eight different characters confirming the death may be too ambiguous for people to accept.
Tony died, the scene is edited in a way to try and point out how sudden it can be, end of TV show.
Hm nah it's literally ambiguous mate, dunno how that concept is so hard to grasp
Thats a really good point of view. But the broken English is bothering me. Or is thact the joke.
Don Draper's Hat
Member
It's the Cookie Monster...
MarkMclovin
Member
Great ending.
Can't say the same thing about Breaking Bad's ending. Jesus.
Can't say the same thing about Breaking Bad's ending. Jesus.
Yeah im not at all familliar with how the cookie monster talks.
Anyway, i honestly think its pretty obvious that Tony is dead. I mean they even do a flashback describing how dying is like, that its just black all of the sudden.
Dash_Riprock
Member
Fucker's dead. How people keep debating this is beyond me. They foreshadowed the shit out it.
Ventilaator
Banned
If Tony died, the sudden black screen is good storytelling. If Tony lived, the black screen is...just a dick move for no reason?
If the preceding show was LOST or something, I would believe the "Honestly, fuck our audience" theories, but Sopranos was good and had good storytelling in it, so I see no reason to believe he didn't die. That's what the sudden black screen implies, and deaths happening like that was foreshadowed in the show.
Probably my favourite ending to anything. That final scene is absolutely incredible. Only Mad Men comes close for me in terms of TV show endings.
It's a novelty account that posts like the Cookie Monster in broken English lol. It's a great post though. I love that the Sopranos ending can be analysed in that way.
I think it was critic Matt Zoller Seitz who said that the "Tony definitely died there's no ambiguity" people treat The Sopranos ending as something to be solved like a puzzle rather than a piece of art to be thought about and analysed with many different intrepretations, and the latter was what the show always was.
It's a novelty account that posts like the Cookie Monster in broken English lol. It's a great post though. I love that the Sopranos ending can be analysed in that way.
I think it was critic Matt Zoller Seitz who said that the "Tony definitely died there's no ambiguity" people treat The Sopranos ending as something to be solved like a puzzle rather than a piece of art to be thought about and analysed with many different intrepretations, and the latter was what the show always was.
That's a very valid interpretation. But since Tony doesn't die in the text (neither on- nor off-screen), there's room for others.
There are two interpretations that are equally as valid. You can't decide one is the truth.
1) Tony got shot by the bathroom guy and died because he dropped his guard. (but he does notice him so I'm not a fan of it)
2) Tony's life is a living hell because everything is a potential threat to him, his family offers him a brief distraction from it, and his daughter is the only thing that gives him peace (which is coincidentally when the show ends).
1) Tony got shot by the bathroom guy and died because he dropped his guard. (but he does notice him so I'm not a fan of it)
2) Tony's life is a living hell because everything is a potential threat to him, his family offers him a brief distraction from it, and his daughter is the only thing that gives him peace (which is coincidentally when the show ends).
Don Draper's Hat
Member
Bobby.
D
Deleted member 1235
Unconfirmed Member
These threads are always great 'but what happened!?'
It was left to us to interpret.
I interpret it as Tony quite obviously got whacked and didn't hear it when it happened. It's the life he chose.
It was left to us to interpret.
I interpret it as Tony quite obviously got whacked and didn't hear it when it happened. It's the life he chose.
I wouldn't say equally valid.
Things like the harsh cut to black and silence going into the credits aren't as readily explained by 2) as by 1). Death can be sudden - cut to black, but peace? That would be better shown with a fade, I think, the emotion slowly building in you. Picking a harsh cut to black to show that Tony is at peace is bizarre.
Then there's things like the tracking shot of the guy entering the bathroom. The other shots look at characters in the diner with quick "are they a problem?" glances. The Member's Only jacket dude has the camera focus on him three times, the last being a tracking shot, all of which have the purpose of placing him in the scene. 'Look at this dude - he didn't teleport into the diner, or into the bathroom, so you can't say we didn't give you the clues'. I don't think that is as readily explained by 2) as by 1).
Now imagine if Chase got his way and it was silent black right through what would normally have been the credits.
Anyway seems clear the scene's constructed as implying Tony finally get's hit but as you never see it the actuality of it's open to interpretation.
The clear message is "sooner or later that's how it ends for him" though.
Personally my view is you don't show three identical sequences of cuts that finish on the POV of a character with the final POV being nothing unless you want to strongly imply the characters just been shot and is dead and didn't even know it had happened to them.
It's a terrific ending: not trying to be huge but being true to what we'd seen all through the show; a mundane moment and the ever present threat of abrupt death from an unforeseen angle.
Anyway seems clear the scene's constructed as implying Tony finally get's hit but as you never see it the actuality of it's open to interpretation.
The clear message is "sooner or later that's how it ends for him" though.
Personally my view is you don't show three identical sequences of cuts that finish on the POV of a character with the final POV being nothing unless you want to strongly imply the characters just been shot and is dead and didn't even know it had happened to them.
It's a terrific ending: not trying to be huge but being true to what we'd seen all through the show; a mundane moment and the ever present threat of abrupt death from an unforeseen angle.
Ventilaator
Banned
If the intention wasn't "Tony dead, the end", #teamdead didn't fuck up with their interpretation of the show, the creators fucked up with the editing of the scene.
(Unless someone can explain to me the editing and the smash cut to black in a scene where Tony is just hanging out having a meal)
(Unless someone can explain to me the editing and the smash cut to black in a scene where Tony is just hanging out having a meal)
Always-honest
Banned
Best show ever made and great ending.
And yeah. Tony died that very second.
And yeah. Tony died that very second.
So pleased the overwhelming majority of people here understood the ending. So many people I know hated it.
There is a level of ambiguity to a point, but the wealth of evidence from the season and the way the scene is shot, the fade to black - Tony's dead. The scene itself is elevated beyond that though, it's just amazing, there's so much going on in there, it's the GOAT.
There is a level of ambiguity to a point, but the wealth of evidence from the season and the way the scene is shot, the fade to black - Tony's dead. The scene itself is elevated beyond that though, it's just amazing, there's so much going on in there, it's the GOAT.
Ventilaator
Banned
Also an underappreciated argument in favor of Tony's death -----> The scene is a Godfather reference
Death Metalist
Member
I mean lets say even if he wasn't dead, why does it matter? He's basically fucked for life. The guys from NY are going to take over everything.
Martinski43
Member
My take is also that the cut to black is his death. Pop just like that.
That reminds me, need to rewatch The Sopranos soon.
That reminds me, need to rewatch The Sopranos soon.
TheOnlyOneHeEverFeared
Member
Well no, cos they agree to a ceasefire in that episode and Phil is dead.
TsunamiOfSwagger
Member
Who would you rather deal with when making business deals, the shrewd and calculating tony or most probably after all the deaths paulie? To me makes sense that he had to go.
Regarding the ending, in my opinion he died, this is because