Yep you got it....it was turned into a house of penance basically a religious insane asylum where you go to receive forgiveness
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SPOILER Bioshock Infinite SPOILER discussion
- Thread starter thomasmahler
- Start date
Yep you got it....it was turned into a house of penance basically a religious insane asylum where you go to receive forgiveness
The One Who Knocks
Member
They have, but there is no problem with explaining again since it's understandable not everyone will read such a large thread.
First point, the lighthouse keeper. The Luteces murder him to prevent him murdering Booker. There is a note on the map alerting the lighthouse keeper that 'he is coming' (paraphrased) sent by "C". The logical conclusion to this is that Comstock sent the note so the lighthouse keeper would prevent the False Shepard making it to Columbia. The Luteces have a note in their laboratory which also alludes to them murdering him as their is a picture of the lighthouse that has 'but one problem remains' (paraphrased). Both notes were posted earlier in the thread so I'll edit this post later with the pictures of each. As for the brutality and notes; so that Booker does not flee to Paris with Elizabeth. Booker states that 'these aren't the sort of people you want to cross' (again, paraphrased) to Elizabeth.
Secondly, what do you mean? Why do they bring him to Columbia? A few reasons, all found in three Voxophones. The first (in Lutece Laboratory I believe) states that both Luteces become trapped in the timeline when Fink botches his murder attempt by sabotaging their machine. The female Lutece doesn't care because she's with her male counterpart. The male Lutece is unhappy with their predicament however. The second Voxophone states that male Lutece offered the female Lutece an ultimatum with regarding to resetting the timeline; either she accepts or they part and as we see them together, she accepted. The third shows that male Lutece was feeling guilt over their interference and wishes to reset their actions while the female Lutece sees it as pointless because 'time is like an ocean, why turn around a tide' (again, paraphrased). Again, I'll edit this post later to add the exact ones in.
Ultimatum: My brother has presented me with an ultimatum...If we do not send the girl back from where we brought her, he and I must part. Where he sees an empty page, I see King Lear. But he is my brother, so I shall play my part, knowing it shall all end in tears.
Scattered in the timeline: Comstock has sabotaged our contraption. Yet, we are not dead. A theory: we are scattered amongst the possibility space. But my brother and I are together, and so, I am content. He is not. The business with the girl lies unresolved. But perhaps there is one who can finish it in our stead.
Time is an ocean: Our contraption shows us the girl is the flame that shall ignite the world. My brother says we must undo what we have done. But time is more an ocean than a river. Why try to bring in a tide that will only again go out?
Note also how the final one also alludes to the machine being the source of the New York vision, not Old Elizabeth.
Third, is it said they only notice it? I think the female Lutece is simply struggling to understand, and asking about, the motive of it as opposed to simply noticing it. She is extremely nihilistic so this would further fit into her character, she doesn't see why he's bother to do it. The signs were almost certainly made by Comstock looking into a tear. I'll have to check if this is specifically stated anywhere but I think that seems like a logical assumption
Yes to the first (the archangel figure was just propaganda to further bolster the personality cult by making it seem like he was chosen by God) but no to the second (or at least I doubt it). The female Lutece (which comes from Comstocks' universes) doesn't really care about anything and he provided funding (so she could eventually get her male version into her universe) so it doesn't seem like there was ever any manipulating to Comstock. They simply showed him tears which he used to predict what would happen. The Luteces' manipulating events seemed to only be to Booker, to get him to reset the timeline.
Dance Inferno
Unconfirmed Member
These comparison images are awesome, keep 'em coming Guevara!
I thought Elizabeth only kills the Bookers that accept the baptism. I thought that is why they do it twice. The Booker that turns down the baptism carries on, then they do it again and stop the Booker that would have accepted the baptism, getting rid of Comstock completely, and also getting rid of herself. That means in the post credits scene there is only Booker and Anna.
Klendathu Club Owner
Member
A ton of this game was reminiscent of other media. I was thinking of putting together some comparison images. For example: almost all of the posters are based on real WW1 propaganda, as is much of the racist caricatures.
I think it will be shocking how much of what we saw wasn't too disimilar from what actually occurred around 1900.
Once quick example: That Fink poster
Another interesting one I stumpled upon is the "Strength through Leisure" billboard at Battleship Bay:
It resembles the Strength through Joy (Kraft durch Freude) program of the national socialist regime in Germany:
Though the actual similiarities of the programs are superficial.
And later on in Fink's industrial district you can hear these propaganda speeches that condem leisure.
Just on the songbird theories, Fink built the songbird inspired by a trip to rapture. I'm assuming it's also where he got the vigors from. I'll see if i can find the voxophone.
Still get caught and they just don't show up later on to give you whatever they give you if you decide to throw it at the announcer.
Still get caught and they just don't show up later on to give you whatever they give you if you decide to throw it at the announcer.
Building on the concept of, once again "Choices are irrelevant"
Don't think it was a trip to Rapture, but a vision through a tear.
Seriously. Literally there is no place to run.
To add on to this, female Lutece also mentions that he probably branded himself as a sign of looking for redemption. She called it his 'hairshirt' which is an item someone wears when they're looking for redemption.
She then continues on and describes Booker himself as HER hairshirt. Meaning they look at Booker himself as their means to redemption.
bobs...onGaf
Member
One thing I am interested in is... every time Elizabeth and Booker go through a tear which Elizebeth creates, surely they move into a world with another Booker and Elizabeth there - one example is when the leader of the Vox Pop says "my booker dies", surely in that universe another Elizabeth existed.
So surely in the eventual timeline they move into... there is two Bookers and two Elizabeth's? I suppose its all fine simply because at the end you erase all the timelines where Columbia even existed - but it always made me wonder what the potential could be to meet another Booker.
So surely in the eventual timeline they move into... there is two Bookers and two Elizabeth's? I suppose its all fine simply because at the end you erase all the timelines where Columbia even existed - but it always made me wonder what the potential could be to meet another Booker.
SpartanForce
Member
I really want to know what the DLC's are gonna be. Please don't be something shallow like the Dishonored ones.
If it isn't somewhat shallow, people will complain it should be on the main game.
Waking up in Rapture just made me remember how much more I liked that game compared to this one, would love to replay the original with Infinite's graphical enhancements.
Theres a lot of potential cool side stories that can be done for the DLCs.
I was hinting at it in the other thread, but I think one of the best things they can do for one of the DLCs is to make a side story set in the timeline where Booker becomes a Martyr for the Vox.
Use it as a way to greatly enhance the characterization of Daisy Fitzroy and the Vox, and you still get to play as Booker (and see him die again!).
Calling it now...one will be called 'Uprising' and will follow the Booker in the revolution timeline until his death
SpartanForce
Member
fuck 'em. I want some minerva's den level shit
RiccochetJ
Gold Member
That would be pretty cool actually!
I'd love a Bioshock remake for next-gen systems with some enhancements, like the graphics obviously and the ability to use weapons/plasmids at the same time.
I don't think there's anymore of a connection to Rapture other than "A Lighthouse, a City and a Man"
But who knows lol
Either its made me go through Bioshock again. Just got to Fort Frolic!
Perhaps they're only able to go whereever/whenever they want, but aren't capable of seeing everything. Or maybe they don't know what'll happen if they meddle with their past, and fear losing their entire existence. Or maybe their guilt didn't run that deep. They wanted to stop the world from being engulfed by fire, not to remove Comstock from existence.
If they're capable of changing the past, they could've solved everyone's problems by telling their past selves to just not work with Comstock. He never gets a floating city or a technological advantage, and Booker gets to keep his daughter.
To add to that, Fink's assistant will show up, thank you for the brutality you showed at the fair, and offer you what I assume is the same thing the couple offered you. I can't remember what I got from both outcomes.
The One Who Knocks
Member
Good point. I presume it's because, unlike omnipotent Elizabeth, they are still just two people that have been split across the probability space, they don't have the ability to manipulate everything simultaneously or to see what every probability leads to. So they could still murder a single Booker before the baptism, but there would still be an infinite amount of other Bookers at the baptism. And two people murdering an infinite amount of Bookers would take an infinite amount of time and would still never be able to erase the probability of there being no Comstock.
EDIT: See Salamando's answer. Although I don't agree with his final line since there would still be the probability their past selves would ignore their warnings.
bodyofanamerican
Member
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
Its a shame the OP screwed up with this thread because there is a gold mine of info in here that should be on the first page. Someone should start up a new SPOILER thread and ask a mod to merge them.
JetBlackPanda
Member
I avoided this thread for a week and when I was finally able to enter it I was rewarded with an OP that is raging on the game.
there should be a OP with bolded sections explaining the questions that people keep asking OVER AND OVER.
I agree, the OP needs to have answers to common questions, and the timeline stuff.
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
I'm making a new thread. You guys start sending me all the most pertinent info basically everything from the one who knocks, Bioshock 1 references just all the cool stuff we have been throwing around.
Older and, dare I say, fatherly?
Exactly. :>
Boys of Silence were by far my favorite type of enemy since they were revealed. That being said, I like the msitery of their creation. It was because of Old Elizabeth, but what happened to her at that time is a mistery to everyone, except for some audio diaries. I like that because it makes the story more real. You can't always be everywhere.
About Songbird... I don't know, man, I think it was answered already: he was created to defend Elizabeth, inspired by something that his creator saw on a tear.
That scene bothers me as in why isn't the floating armada not shooting with lasers + other high tech futuristic stuff?
They could already time travel.
Atom Bombs + F14s would wreck that.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
DangerStepp
Member
Not sure if anyone pointed this out so sorry if I missed it.
Did anyone notice the little girl's Voxaphone left beneath Letuce's statue at the beginning of the game?
Her name is Constance (constants) Field.
JetBlackPanda
Member
so how old is "old" Elizabeth in the 1984 New York reveal?
Did Columbia Jump forward in time to get there? otherwise she would be like 90 something?
Did Columbia Jump forward in time to get there? otherwise she would be like 90 something?
It exists in a universe where Comstock and Columbia reside before Booker and Elizabeth succeed in their intervention.
Metroidvania
People called Romanes they go the house?
It's either a religious 'dream' or an analogy used to feed the growing 'legend' of his abilities as a prophet of God after meeting the female Lutece and seeing the possibility of Columbia through her tear machine.
I don't know if it's ever actually clearly stated.
she's that old, yeah. No jumping in time, Comstock just tortured her until she fell in line with his way of thinking, then things progressed from there until what you see when Old Liz uses the last of her power to show you what's up when you fail, then return you so you avoided death by Songbird.
Not sure if anyone pointed this out so sorry if I missed it.
Did anyone notice the little girl's Voxaphone left beneath Letuce's statue at the beginning of the game?
Her name is Constance (constants) Field.
Well shit...
I can see Rapture appearing in the DLC is if it centers around Fink and his creations (Vigors, Handymen, Songbird, etc).
It's outright stated in the game that Fink looked through a tear to get ideas for certain things. I think the wording is something to the effect of Fink looking through a tear at a "highly talented biologist," referring to Tenenbaum and Plasmids leading to Vigors.
There's also another audio log where Fink discusses watching a process where man and machine are combined in an irreversible way (Suchong creating a Big Daddy), and ponders what use Comstock might have for it.
bobs...onGaf
Member
Just had an argument with someone I hate to call a friend because he may read this.
Every time you die, as far as im concerned the Lutece's essentially hop to another dimension were Booker didn't die in order to observe that Booker. This is reflected in the game, every time you die you essentially move into a Booker who did something differently and carry on. I suppose the exception to this is the animation where Elizebeth specifically revives you with her health syringe.
My friend thinks that the Booker you play as is creating the one true timeline and essentially if he dies another Booker is dragged into his dimension and absorbs his memories.
My friends an idiot right?
Every time you die, as far as im concerned the Lutece's essentially hop to another dimension were Booker didn't die in order to observe that Booker. This is reflected in the game, every time you die you essentially move into a Booker who did something differently and carry on. I suppose the exception to this is the animation where Elizebeth specifically revives you with her health syringe.
My friend thinks that the Booker you play as is creating the one true timeline and essentially if he dies another Booker is dragged into his dimension and absorbs his memories.
My friends an idiot right?