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[Marmaladefire]

I feel like real life makes this game better everyday. I see a lot of people doing the Nier Automata comparison a lot but these titles (both fantastic) are obviously going for very different things.

While I know we all got the memo about Persona 5 being a deeply Japanese game about JAPAN (it is) that probably won't even fully be decipherable to you!!! during pre-release; When you see your country being run by a delusional traitorous serial rapist with access to the largest military in the world and everyone sitting around making excuses for why it really isn't so bad, you can't help but think of the ending of this game. The world literally turns into hell and everyone see, but no one cares. At least, this is the most resonant and cathartic game of the year.

 

[.JayZii]

I feel like real life makes this game better everyday. I see a lot of people doing the Nier Automata comparison a lot but these titles (both fantastic) are obviously going for very different things.

While I know we all got the memo about Persona 5 being a deeply Japanese game about JAPAN (it is) that probably won't even fully be decipherable to you!!! during pre-release; When you see your country being run by a delusional traitorous serial rapist with access to the largest military in the world and everyone sitting around making excuses for why it really isn't so bad, you can't help but think of the ending of this game. The world literally turns into hell and everyone see, but no one cares. At least, this is the most resonant and cathartic game of the year.

It would have been pretty crazy to be localizing this game while all things Trump were going down in the real world.

 

[Lunar15]

I want to do a big write up on on all my favorite things and least favorite things about this game, but I think I'd rather just get some distance from the game first.

 

[Autoignition]

I feel like real life makes this game better everyday. I see a lot of people doing the Nier Automata comparison a lot but these titles (both fantastic) are obviously going for very different things.

While I know we all got the memo about Persona 5 being a deeply Japanese game about JAPAN (it is) that probably won't even fully be decipherable to you!!! during pre-release; When you see your country being run by a delusional traitorous serial rapist with access to the largest military in the world and everyone sitting around making excuses for why it really isn't so bad, you can't help but think of the ending of this game. The world literally turns into hell and everyone see, but no one cares. At least, this is the most resonant and cathartic game of the year.

This might sound silly, but whenever the news stresses me out, I listen to this game's OST to calm myself down. I know that we can't really just pull a Phantom Thieves on the most heinous people in our real world government, but this game makes me feel like change is possible.

 

[chrominance]

This might sound silly, but whenever the news stresses me out, I listen to this game's OST to calm myself down. I know that we can't really just pull a Phantom Thieves on the most heinous people in our real world government, but this game makes me feel like change is possible.

Wait until protest groups take a page from the South Korean feminists who used D.va as their mascot and start branding themselves as the Phantom Thieves.

 

[snow in jamaica]

Hoo boy did they play fast and loose with the concept of Yaldabaoth and Satanael. Most gnostic texts describe them as the same person. Yaldabaoth makes a lot of sense, he was a fake god who was egotistical. But Satanael is a huge stretch.

You have to think of him comparatively as an Enochian Watcher and representative of rebellion who brought knowledge and free will to humankind. I guess that's why Lucifer is under the Star arcana, signifying inspiration and faith, even though it's the opposite of the Devil.

 

[Lunar15]

You have to think of him comparatively as an Enochian Watcher and representative of rebellion who brought knowledge and free will to humankind. I guess that's why Lucifer is under the Star arcana, signifying inspiration and faith, even though it's the opposite of the Devil.

Right, I just mean that Yaldaboath is usually is Satan in gnostic texts. They're the same idea: a right hand of god that created humanity and the world and rebelled against God when their ego inflated.

I don't really have a problem with them just using Yaldabaoth and Satanael as stand ins for YVHV and Lucifer, but it makes the mythology of this game more muddy than it already was. I kinda liked how straightforward 3 and 4's were, even if 3 made a sudden turn into Jesus parallels instead of Greek mythology.

Also, they did the Qliphoth from Kabbalah but proceeded to use extremely unusual translations for the name of each floor of Mementos. Another thing:It's like they tried to have all the Princes of the Qliphoth, but only actually got three of them in there (Asmodeus, Samael, Bael). Why they made the other bosses Mammon, Leviathan, and whatever the fuck madarame was is beyond me.

Finally, they chose some odd sins for the seven deadly sins. No sloth, but they had both Vanity and Pride. I don't think I've ever seen Vanity in the seven deadly sins, but you always see sloth. I thought for sure Futaba's would be sloth, but nope: Wrath???

 

[Zafir]

Completely true - and honestly, outside of how abruptly you find yourself at the final boss, nothing really needs to change. It does what it sets out to do and does it well. I just wish Palace 6, 7, and 8 were ever so slightly more spread out, and that the Holy Grail was foreshadowed more. (Like Nyx in P3)



Agreed - scenes like Kawakami, Toranosuke, and Ohya's in that final set of events really hit home the message of the game, in retrospect. I didn't give it much thought at the time due to how burnt out I was on the final series of dungeons, but it does wrap things up nicely and remains thematic throughout. I just guess I was hoping for the wrong thing when I thought it'd be more like Golden's epilogue - the timeskips took a lot of wind out of my sails.



Agreed - it's much the same for me. I like the tone of all 3 modern Persona games, but personally, the messages, characters, and journeys of 3 & 4 impacted me more than the message of 5, and its characters & such. I'm not saying any game is inherently worse than the others, but in terms of endings, they'll work for some, not work for others - it depends. It's a matter of flavor.

In terms of gameplay & UI polish, however, P5 is by far the best.

Yeah, I was mostly discussing the ending/epilogue after the final boss. I still have my qualms about how the story is paced from October onwards.

Since I played Golden after Persona 5, I think if anything I expected the ending to be rather abrupt, just like 3 (though as you say, the lead up to the final boss is better) and base 4 was. So if anything I managed to be pleasantly surprised by it's length.

Can I get some Juvie adventures up in here?

It would actually be cool if MC befriends a depressed kid stuck in juvie with him and using his experiences with changing hearts to help this kid out. Help drive home the "even without phantom thief powers, we can change the world" message.

Honestly that was my first thought when people were talking about what they could add.

The only downside is, you wouldn't bee seeing any of the rest of the cast for that month and a half.

 

[Marmaladefire]

Wait until protest groups take a page from the South Korean feminists who used D.va as their mascot and start branding themselves as the Phantom Thieves.

I'm in. Goodbye shitty Guy Fawkes getup, hello red gloves and Joker mask.

 

[CrimsonFist]

Wait until protest groups take a page from the South Korean feminists who used D.va as their mascot and start branding themselves as the Phantom Thieves.

https://twitter.com/Iammfknsharky/status/805324463612956672 already happened with Persona 4

 

[snow in jamaica]

Right, I just mean that Yaldaboath is usually is Satan in gnostic texts. They're the same idea: a right hand of god that created humanity and the world and rebelled against God when their ego inflated.

I don't really have a problem with them just using Yaldabaoth and Satanael as stand ins for YVHV and Lucifer, but it makes the mythology of this game more muddy than it already was. I kinda liked how straightforward 3 and 4's were, even if 3 made a sudden turn into Jesus parallels instead of Greek mythology.

Also, they did the Qliphoth from Kabbalah but proceeded to use extremely unusual translations for the name of each floor of Mementos. Also, It's like they tried to have all the Princes of the Qliphoth, but only actually got three of them in there (Asmodeus, Samael, Bael). Why they made the other bosses Mammon, Leviathan, and whatever the fuck madarame was is beyond me.

Yeah, it's pretty weird.

They were playing comparatively with the Qliphoth and demonic representatives of the seven deadly sins, since there are seven palaces and ten hells in the Qliphoth. Even those play loose though, since, for example, Azazel isn't mentioned in any classification of demons involving the sins as far as I know. The game also skips a hell or two since there aren't ten Mementos areas, I think.

It does seem like the localization should've used different names for the Mementos areas. I searched for the names used in the game and the only relevant result was the Qliphoth's Japanese Wikipedia page.

Oh yeah, they used the name Bael for what was Beelzebub, the demon of gluttony. I would've used the name Baal Zebul instead due to his absence in P5 as a Persona as well as the closer relation to Beelzebub.

 

[Autoignition]

I'm in. Goodbye shitty Guy Fawkes getup, hello red gloves and Joker mask.

Fuck. Yes. Let's hit the streets.

 

[PK Gaming]

Imagine getting to play this in September of 2016... it would have seemed downright prescient, haha.

 

[Autoignition]

Imagine getting to play this in September of 2016... it would have seemed downright prescient, haha.

Me, naively, playing this in Sept 2016 after a hard day of canvassing for Dems and Hillary: "Man, sucks to be Japan right now. Should've organized like us."

 

[PK Gaming]

Me, naively, playing this in Sept 2016 after a hard day of canvassing for Dems and Hillary: "Man, sucks to be Japan right now. Should've organized like us."

 

[Antiwhippy]

I'm in. Goodbye shitty Guy Fawkes getup, hello red gloves and Joker mask.

Masquerade masks, not joker masks.

As much as I think certain things can definitely be improved on the story execution I still do really like persona 5's brand of brash, naive idealism. That's why I likened it to a punk album pretty often. It might not be the most nuanced but some righteous anger in the world can do some good.

 

[Cannon_Fodder]

I want to do a big write up on on all my favorite things and least favorite things about this game, but I think I'd rather just get some distance from the game first.

If you do end up doing this, I think it would be a very interesting read. I'm doing NG+ over the summer, and I'm planning to do something very similar because I want to see where P5 went wrong for me. I love virtually everything about P5's aesthetic, message, and even how it delivered that message; but for some reason, the game left me feeling cold. I'm hoping taking a more critical look will help me put a finger on why.

 

[LotusHD]

Imagine getting to play this in September of 2016... it would have seemed downright prescient, haha.

Lmao, that is so.... fucking depressing.

 

[Amani]

FINALLY. I can talk about the game in full now!

I can't believe the Devil shot God in the face to save Christmas.

 

[Antiwhippy]

Welcome to SMT.

Like the only time where an abrahamic god isn't lawful evil is when you literally became Jesus.

 

[snow in jamaica]

Gnosticism isn't really Abrahamic though, and Yaldabaoth is inherently bad, being an unkind interpretation of Yahweh.

Nothing/not much about YHVH in SMT2 is inconsistent with the OT anyway.

 

[Guess Who]

Gnosticism isn't really Abrahamic though, and Yaldabaoth is inherently bad, being an unkind interpretation of Yahweh.

I stand by my claim that Yaldabaoth is 100% written to be Yahweh and they basically just used "Yaldabaoth" and "Satanael" as indirect names for what is actually YHVH and Lucifer.

 

[Antiwhippy]

And Yald is basically how they depict YHVH anyway: an uncaring god of control.

 

[CSX]

And Yald is basically how they depict YHVH anyway.

Some of the lines he was saying in the final battle makes you wonder why they didn't just do a glorious HD giant floating head as his model instead

They were right with the color though!

 

[Amani]

It is interesting how this version of Santael paints Lucy in a righteous light with his act of rebellion, giving free will back to humanity rather than straight up giving it to them.

 

[piratepwnsninja]

So I'm at Shido's palace and the game was like, "YO WORK ON YOUR SOCIAL LINKS"

Do they literally mean do that before the palace? Or is this like every other thing where I can do the palace cycle then do social stuff while waiting for the deadline? I'm just want to make sure it's that.

 

[Amani]

So I'm at Shido's palace and the game was like, "YO WORK ON YOUR SOCIAL LINKS"

Do they literally mean do that before the palace? Or is this like every other thing where I can do the palace cycle then do social stuff while waiting for the deadline? I'm just want to make sure it's that.

You're good to finish the palace, you'll have time to do confidants afterwards.

 

[Mendrox]

Wait until protest groups take a page from the South Korean feminists who used D.va as their mascot and start branding themselves as the Phantom Thieves.

Man that would be awesome.

 

[Iva Demilcol]

Imagine getting to play this in September of 2016... it would have seemed downright prescient, haha.

Lmao, that is so.... fucking depressing.

Yep, I was playing the game during that time of the year. I don't live in the States though.

Still, the plot of the game resonated strongly with me because of that. Just imagine if the game would've received a worldwide release.

 

[snow in jamaica]

I stand by my claim that Yaldabaoth is 100% written to be Yahweh and they basically just used "Yaldabaoth" and "Satanael" as indirect names for what is actually YHVH and Lucifer.

Yeah probably.

Incidentally, I couldn't help but think of Azathoth's similarities to the Demiurge, partly because Yaldabaoth in P5 has parallels to P2's Nyarlathotep, Azathoth's son. They're both blind idiot gods of chaos, and Azathoth is completely apathetic toward humanity. Azathoth could appear in a spinoff, maybe, I dunno.

 

[Antiwhippy]

Eh, yald is about control, not chaos, isn't he?

 

[RalchAC]

Yeah probably.

Incidentally, I couldn't help but think of Azathoth's similarities to the Demiurge, partly because Yaldabaoth in P5 has parallels to P2's Nyarlathotep, Azathoth's son. They're both blind idiot gods of chaos, and Azathoth is completely apathetic toward humanity. Azathoth could appear in a spinoff, maybe, I dunno.

Yaldabaoth is another name of the Demiurge in Gnosticism. An uncomplete "God" that has no soul or something like that and created the imperfect material world because himself is imperfect compared to the higher truer gods.

Then he sent his servants, the Archons (which are the Old Testament angels) to guide the Jews. Until the higher gods realised it and sent Jesus, which was touched by the light of wisdom of the true gods, to guide Jews so they left the Demiurge's path of ignorance.

Or something like that. Gnosticism makes sense, I think. Yalba is a "fake god" in that cult, so having him as the big bad and surrounding him with apparently mighty angels works. Because he himself think he's righteous eventhough he isn't.

Source: I read and researched a bit about it after finishing the game. So some details could be wrong.

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

I feel like real life makes this game better everyday. I see a lot of people doing the Nier Automata comparison a lot but these titles (both fantastic) are obviously going for very different things.

While I know we all got the memo about Persona 5 being a deeply Japanese game about JAPAN (it is) that probably won't even fully be decipherable to you!!! during pre-release; When you see your country being run by a delusional traitorous serial rapist with access to the largest military in the world and everyone sitting around making excuses for why it really isn't so bad, you can't help but think of the ending of this game. The world literally turns into hell and everyone see, but no one cares. At least, this is the most resonant and cathartic game of the year.

Yeah, the last oh, 20 hours of this game was some real-time deja vu. Hashino's pulling a Kojima, heh.

But then again, he's always had a good eye for the hearts and minds of people, so it's no surprise the pieces would fall like they do in this story.

 

[MaximumSpider]

Imagine getting to play this in September of 2016... it would have seemed downright prescient, haha.

Thinking about the current events all while watching this scene the other day.

 

[Antiwhippy]

Yeah, the last oh, 20 hours of this game was some real-time deja vu. Hashino's pulling a Kojima, heh.

But then again, he's always had a good eye for the hearts and minds of people, so it's no surprise the pieces would fall like they do in this story.

I mean it's not like trump is the first nationalist populist in history.

 

[Renekton]

Is Japan politics that vulnerable to dictatorship? They seem to change leaders/reps like underwear.

 

[Marmaladefire]

Is Japan politics that vulnerable to dictatorship? They seem to change leaders/reps like underwear.

There's a reason Trump only had nice things to say about Abe whilst being cool throwing most of our other East Asian allies under the bus.

 

[snow in jamaica]

Eh, yald is about control, not chaos, isn't he?

Yeah, in that he withholds knowledge so everyone can live in ignorance. I had to verify the part about chaos and it's from its own school of Gnosticism so never mind that. Goes to show how diverse/contradictory this stuff is.

Yaldabaoth is another name of the Demiurge in Gnosticism. An uncomplete "God" that has no soul or something like that and created the imperfect material world because himself is imperfect compared to the higher truer gods.

Then he sent his servants, the Archons (which are the Old Testament angels) to guide the Jews. Until the higher gods realised it and sent Jesus, which was touched by the light of wisdom of the true gods, to guide Jews so they left the Demiurge's path of ignorance.

Or something like that. Gnosticism makes sense, I think. Yalba is a "fake god" in that cult, so having him as the big bad and surrounding him with apparently mighty angels works. Because he himself think he's righteous eventhough he isn't.

Source: I read and researched a bit about it after finishing the game. So some details could be wrong.

No arguments here.

 

[Guess Who]

Is Japan politics that vulnerable to dictatorship? They seem to change leaders/reps like underwear.

If the ruling party remains the same and they are united behind a consistent ideology, you don't need the same person in the prime minister seat to effectively have a dictatorship.

See also: the current ruling party of Japan, the LDP, has been in power for the overwhelming majority of the last sixty years.

 

[Antiwhippy]

Also apathy to politics is a much bigger problem in Japan.

 

[Elaugaufein]

I stand by my claim that Yaldabaoth is 100% written to be Yahweh and they basically just used "Yaldabaoth" and "Satanael" as indirect names for what is actually YHVH and Lucifer.

I'm surprised they didn't at least make Satanael look less like Lucifer. The similarities are so strong they obviously used the Lucifer model (and maybe I Helel) as a base but it seems weird given they made Yaldabaoth look so different to YHVH. They could have made them look less similar just by keeping more of Arsene's appearance.

 

[snow in jamaica]

Satanael is the Enochian interpretation of Lucifer, really. Any similarities they have in P5 can be attributed to that. They already look significantly different from each other and they couldn't have dispelled all visual similarities without making him unrecognizable.

 

[Antiwhippy]

I wonder what P3MC and P5MC would do if they meet each other.

 

[Iva Demilcol]

I wonder what P3MC and P5MC would do if they meet each other.

Persona Q2

 

[Elaugaufein]

I wonder what P3MC and P5MC would do if they meet each other.

Stealing the lock on Nyx heh. But you'd have to feel bad for Minato who'd be 10 years out of time.

 

[Guess Who]

even if, hypothetically, (P3 spoilers)

Spoiler

P3MC was freed from his fate of being a door, i'm pretty sure he'd just pass on, not come back to life

 

[KO Traveling Hobo]

I wonder what P3MC and P5MC would do if they meet each other.

Joker's specialization in picking locks is no coincidence.

 

[Lunar15]

Man, whoever made the in game cutscenes for P5 is a god: they're all so genuinely amazing. The lighting, the camera angles... everything is really well done.

The part where Joker breaks the chain and there's a nice little guitar riff is just badass.

 

[MaximumSpider]

Man, whoever made the in game cutscenes for P5 is a god: they're all so genuinely amazing. The lighting, the camera angles... everything is really well done.

The part where Joker breaks the chain and there's a nice little guitar riff is just badass.

They should have been main cutscenes. ;_;
The anime scenes have nothing on in-game.

 

[Trigonometrize.]

They should have been main cutscenes. ;_;
The anime scenes have nothing on in-game.

We've reached a turning point.