Lol what. Of course high art is influenced by "gender stuff", gender is a totally worthwhile subject for art of any kind.
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[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Thread #2) - One Thumb Up
- Thread starter Bobby Roberts
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Lol what. Of course high art is influenced by "gender stuff", gender is a totally worthwhile subject for art of any kind.
Like, if the writer thinks making Rey succumb to the dark side would make the most sense for the character and the overall plot, but refrains from doing so simply because she's the first "major female Jedi".
EvilKatarn
Member
Just saw the movie.
Went in expecting a lot more Mark Hamill.
Lightsaber duels were satisfying and while they still had more flair than I would have liked they were still pretty believable. Finn not getting instantly wrecked was surprising though.
Ray is a cool new lead for the series. Stormtrooper costumes were ace, especially the fighter pilots'.
I still think my idea of just having the new lead be Kyle Katarn played by Ryan Gosling would have been better.
let it go, let it go, let it go
Went in expecting a lot more Mark Hamill.
Lightsaber duels were satisfying and while they still had more flair than I would have liked they were still pretty believable. Finn not getting instantly wrecked was surprising though.
Ray is a cool new lead for the series. Stormtrooper costumes were ace, especially the fighter pilots'.
I still think my idea of just having the new lead be Kyle Katarn played by Ryan Gosling would have been better.
let it go, let it go, let it go
oh, ok, so it's the novel that tells the same story as the movie - so not really EU, but maybe just more in-depth than the movie, gotcha.
I was thinking about maybe giving the EU a try this time around.
When i entered the world of Star Wars, i wasn't much of a reader, and when i considered maybe trying some of the EU, it was just overwhelmingly extensive.
Which is why the canon-reset sounds like as good of a chance i'll ever have.
Pai Pai Master
Banned
I don't know the answer to all of those things but the movie explicitly tells why Luke left. I don't need all that bullshit told to me in an awkward exposition dump.
Skellig Gra
Member
That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying they won't risk doing anything that will cause a backlash for gender reasons because they want to be as safe as possible to maximize profits.
Dash_Riprock
Member
I never understood why the old EU was adamant on making the events of the Battle of Endor such a big secret to the general public. Luke should have been telling everyone how Anakin redeemed himself and how the emperor was killed. What would he gain by keeping it secret?
Robot Pants
Member
Now that is a name I haven't heard in a long time.
A long time.
eyeball_kid
Member
Or the fact that Starkiller Base blew up the Republic's HQ planet, along with assumedly most of the functioning government, and yet the Resistance seemed much more concerned about their half-assed rebel base being blown up than the Pearl Harbor moment a couple hours prior.
The new canon is already growing at a pretty quick pace, but yeah - if you want to jump in, it's still a good time to do it since there's wayyyyyy less than the EU had and it's only going to grow bigger. They're only now starting to dabble in the post-RotJ stuff, most of the new canon so far has focused on the OT era and the Dark Times.
MisterHero
Super Member
In 2 years it'll turn out there was an entire star system of Starkiller Bases that began construction 70 years ago in Star Wars time.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
The Librarian
Banned
Spoken like someone whose gender is represented really well in our entertainment culture.
It's interesting, this reminds me of what Luke says in the first TFA teaser about how the Force runs through his family. I wouldn't be surprised to learn this is part of his first conversation with Rey. You could infer he is implying she's part of that family - or not!
The One Who Knocks
Member
Whether "seduced to the light side" is the exact line or not makes very little difference honestly; he feels empathy for the people he kills, he doesn't want to be in pain and emotionally distraught, he has great hatred, he knows what he has to do but is scared he cares too much to kill Han/his family, and he is scared that he will fail as Vader did and give into the love he feels for his family and it will be suppressed by his hatred. In an internal sense, he also hesitates over being willing to commit to the dark side, and fears that Snoke will betray him, while also fearing that he isn't powerful enough.
He is somebody who was born the grandson of one of the most powerful Jedi/Sith in the galaxy who managed to completely rule the universe until he was seduced by the Light and betrayed the emperor, as he allowed his emotions to overrule him and sacrifice himself. Ren has a lot to live up to, and as Rey's intrusion tells us, he is terrified he won't be able to live up to these expectations. The dark side is a source of magnificent power, and he appears to willingly choose this so that he can live up to his legacy, while simultaneously drawing on the fact that his mother sent him away, Snoke began to manipulate his insecurity and emotional recklessness. His idolisation of his grandfather isn't that strange, he is somebody who managed to bring the galaxy under his rule until his self-sacrifice. He feels that he is weak, his uncle the man who managed to stop his grandfather and save the galaxy, his mother a princess (now general) who helped to restore the republic, and doesn't live up to these people, and chooses the dark side for the power that it it may bring so that he can prove to himself that he is worthy of his lineage and as powerful, if not more so, than Darth Vader. He doesn't want to be tempted by the light, but is in continuous emotional pain, obviously still feels a sense of longing and care for his family, and is insecure; he's convinced that it will result in him not reaching his potential, and not living up to his powerful family, and he's worried that he will feel compassion to prevent him from becoming powerful. This all ignores the actual manipulation he has undergone by Snoke, which no doubt prayed on his insecurity, emotional turmoil, and instability. I don't really get what the issue is with him being tempted by the light side of the force.
The old man's identity isn't known (well, we know his name and what he had but little else) but the predominant theory is that he was somebody in a similar position to Ben Kenobi; he was placed on Jakku to watch over Rey and, when the time is right, potentially bring her to Luke and assist her in her learning of the force.
Fan theory: elements from Knights of the Old Republic will play into Episodes 8 and/or 9
Hints to this:
1. The planet Rakata Prime (which has only ever featured in KOTOR) is officially canon as it appears on a map in the Force Awakens Visual Dictionary. It might even be the planet on which Rey finds Luke, as it has similar terrain. I will need to compare the map in the movie to the map in the book to see if it matches.
2 The Knights of Ren could very easily be derivative of followers of Revan.
3. Snoke is supposedly thousands of years old. Old enough to remember the tales of Revan.
KOTOR is one of the pieces of the old EU that would be easiest for Disney to incorporate into their new stories.
Further points:
1. The Old Republic game is continuing to receive support, with a new expansion released this year. That game contains many story elements that follow the events of the KOTOR games (and had a tie-in novel titled Revan).
2. The Clone Wars included an appearance by Darth Bane, and it was mentioned by Yoda that he brought in the Rule of Two for the Sith. If you read Darth Bane's first novel, it was Revan that first created the rule. The fact that Darth Bane's character is canon could easily extend to canonising Revan and KOTOR.
I'm not holding my breath on this theory but it could be so awesome if true.
I also think that Rey could be the daughter of Galen Marek (the apprentice from The Force Unleashed) and his partner Juno Eclipse. Bear in mind Galen was able to disarm Darth Vader at about 2 years old using only a Force Pull. That sort of power could run in the family.
Hints to this:
1. The planet Rakata Prime (which has only ever featured in KOTOR) is officially canon as it appears on a map in the Force Awakens Visual Dictionary. It might even be the planet on which Rey finds Luke, as it has similar terrain. I will need to compare the map in the movie to the map in the book to see if it matches.
2 The Knights of Ren could very easily be derivative of followers of Revan.
3. Snoke is supposedly thousands of years old. Old enough to remember the tales of Revan.
KOTOR is one of the pieces of the old EU that would be easiest for Disney to incorporate into their new stories.
Further points:
1. The Old Republic game is continuing to receive support, with a new expansion released this year. That game contains many story elements that follow the events of the KOTOR games (and had a tie-in novel titled Revan).
2. The Clone Wars included an appearance by Darth Bane, and it was mentioned by Yoda that he brought in the Rule of Two for the Sith. If you read Darth Bane's first novel, it was Revan that first created the rule. The fact that Darth Bane's character is canon could easily extend to canonising Revan and KOTOR.
I'm not holding my breath on this theory but it could be so awesome if true.
I also think that Rey could be the daughter of Galen Marek (the apprentice from The Force Unleashed) and his partner Juno Eclipse. Bear in mind Galen was able to disarm Darth Vader at about 2 years old using only a Force Pull. That sort of power could run in the family.
Skellig Gra
Member
Self fulfilling prophecy
EvilKatarn
Member
Oh yeah, Snooki looked like a big dweeb.
Now this was a spooky and menacing looking guy.
Now this was a spooky and menacing looking guy.
Huh.
In my mind it was just that Rey was now on the planet with the lightsaber and R2-D2 senses that.
*shrug*
Scientist Supreme!
Banned
I don't understand your argument, what would be wrong with Rey turning to the dark side?
Patrick Bateman
Member
Didn't Palpatine kill Plagueis?
If they do that story line with Palpatine and his clones I'm eating my non existing hat.
What is it with Jedi fucking up and then giving up and going into self exile. Bunch a wimps
Snoke = Plagueis has been a really popular theory for like a year now, even though Andy Serkis has said that Snoke is a new character and Pablo Hidalgo keeps making fun of the idea. It's because a lot of people like the mystery of the character of Darth Plagueis and/or want things to tie back into the PT to make the saga all fit together.
Uggh, I'm not buying it.
Both Kylo and Voldemort are lame villains. Their motivations are flimsy. He wants to "live up to his lineage"? Please...
Kylo should have left his mask on. After he did that I couldn't take him seriously, lol.
MisterHero
Super Member
Plagueis supposedly knew about resurrection so it's possible he resurrected himself because why not.
It would be funny and open up the universe if Palpatine wasn't the total authority of the Dark Side.
lmaoo I don't think Snoke is Palpy's master. Just throwing that out there with the constant talking of Plagueis
This "awkward exposition dump" meme is so silly. "Kylo turned Luke's apprentices to the Dark Side." One sentence is all it takes. That sentence even exists except instead of explaining the politics between Luke and Kylo, they just don't. Luke goes into exile because he's ashamed that he gave power to the Dark Side, he regrets having failed his students, he doubts he'll ever be able to train a Jedi properly.
Valkerionseven
Member
Same here.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
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Ether_Snake
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We don't need a complete picture, I didn't say that. The movie goes out of its way to tell us that Rey is longing for her family, but then there is conflicting information sent to us that WE don't know who her family is, but we never understand if SHE doesn't. It's never made clear at all, and it's as if the script is trying to dance around it, but obviously Rey knows if she remembers who her family was or not, or if it's all just a blur. We DON'T, yet it's a pretty big factor in the character and something the script keeps hammering.
Hasphat'sAnts
Member
Because given what we have on each character, it serves zero narrative purpose outside of, "but what if she turned EVIL??!!!"
I doubt these ill happen, but I do hope they pull from KotOR, at least a little. Maybe the First Order, after losing so many troopers on Starkiller base, recruits some Mandalorians. Or someone learns to use Battle Meditation.
fair enough. I think it makes him an interesting "villain" so to speak and it makes me more excited for his character and story.
Confirmed. They're near identical. And Williams always tells stories through his music.
eyeball_kid
Member
He should have left it on until Han asked him to take it off, which would've been a nice (reversed) parallel to Vader asking Luke to take of his mask. Taking it off with Rey diminished the impact of the Han scene.
Scientist Supreme!
Banned
Sure, but he/she seems to think that's can't even be possible for her.
Pai Pai Master
Banned
I think it's easy to infer that Ben either killed or turned the other pupils. They're not around, so I'm assuming he killed them. Again, I don't need the movie to tell me that because it's not crucial information. So as I stated, the movie does answer the question of why Luke left. Not sure what else is missing or needed here.
Patrick Bateman
Member
It would have been gangster if he only took it off in that scene and you'd only see Han's reaction and Kylo from behind.
The movie implies both likely happen. The scene they show of Kylo in the rain has a lot of bodies around him and the group he's with. So he likely turned others to his side and killed the rest. Which leaves us with the question of where are they now?
BossDarkseid
Member
What if battle meditation is like Snoke's main power...like how Sidious was all about that force lightning. Also its not going to happen but i think my mind would explode with nerd joy if it turned out Snoke was a reinterpretation of a Raktan and is based on Raktan Prime and the First Order have the Star Forge and all that jazz...
The One Who Knocks
Member
Right when Rey peers into his mind, the first thought that she reads is that he fears he isn't as powerful as Darth Vader. It's clear throughout the movie he worships Darth Vader and wants to be able to 'finish what he started'. He fears he won't be 'strong' enough to kill Han and do what he must. It reads a lot into Rey's intrusion into his mind, but his insecurity and sense of abandonment are really the only driving motivations which we have been presented with, and I definitely feel there's enough in the movie to support both/either as motivations. If you find it flimsy, well I guess that's fair enough, but there is reason there for that line.
EDIT:
Full confession here, my only real knowledge of Star Wars' extended universe is through the Knights of the Old Republic (both) and Star Wars Bounty Hunter. I feel that elements of it may be used (the mind wipe, Korriban, dealing with ancient Sith, first Jedi temple, certain technologies [e.g. the Star Forge] seem to be areas open for pillaging), and ideas may be extracted, because the game contains a lot of interesting ideas and material so I won't dismiss them taking inspiration from some of it, but I really doubt we'll get anything direct (and definitely would bet with one hundred percent confidence that she is not Starkiller's child and has no connection to him).
I'm curious as to how you figured this.
Also, screw Mandalorians. First Order needs to order in an ARC trooper clone army on amazon asap.
The quote is from Return of the Jedi, when Luke reveals to Leia that they're siblings.
TheOctodad
Member
And Cloud Atlas is a perfect 10?
Grover Cleveland
Member
Considering the fact that Leia didn't even exhibit any Force sensitivity until the end of Empire (when she sensed that Luke was dangling from Cloud City and needed help)...I'm skeptical. And certainly she didn't actually know her own bloodline until her little talk with Luke in Jedi.
DarkHeartedKill
Member
I agree it's too safe, but to be fair it was J J Abrams first shot at Star Wars, so he didn't want to be super hated like Lucas was. I think they took a safe route first to kinda test the waters, see what people loved/hated then improve on that in the next movie. That's the hope I'm clinging onto.
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