staticneuron
Member
I think this is the case. Showing Nyx of and not releasing it probably left people a bit sour and seeing the media leak shows they have ALOT of assets under wraps. So they are definitely being very cautious with what they show.
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Star Citizen Alpha 2.0 | The 'Verse Awakens
- Thread starter Raticus79
- Start date
I think this is the case. Showing Nyx of and not releasing it probably left people a bit sour and seeing the media leak shows they have ALOT of assets under wraps. So they are definitely being very cautious with what they show.
Bo Knows GAF
Member
See I like to think this is the case too (it's the optimist in me), but with the amount of time they take in updating current assets it makes me wonder if there ARE other systems in development still under wraps. Let me, again, make it clear that I'm not a doubter of the game BUT they do tend to spend a lot of time perfecting what we already have and it comes in small doses. Let me use the astroid station at Hex for example; Grim Hex since entering the PU has already received 2 NEW light passes and now is getting a small bar room as an update. Grim Hex is a very small station and has seen a tremendous amount of focus from the Dev team. Does this mean there are dozens of other unreleased "grim hexes" already out there getting these updates as well or are they focused heavily on just this one in Stanton? Wouldn't that mean that development for future stations will be just as slow. Idk man sometimes I just wonder how they'll get this all done!
/rant and deep breath.
Someone hold me
Zalusithix
Member
I'm sure they have other locations, but not necessarily at the same level of completeness or polish. Grim Hex didn't just pop into existence in its current form. It went from drawings, to rough block outs, and evolved bit by bit to what you see today. The August Jump Point had a pretty large feature on the creation of it. Here's a couple of images yanked from it to show what I mean.
There's nothing preventing many places being in various states of completion even while finishing passes are made on the current Grim Hex. It's not like they only have one artist or designer working on this stuff. Heck, even if they have ones that are sitting around more or less finished, they have no reason to show them off so early. It'd make sense to retain some stuff that they can present as new when the time comes to start implementing it into the PU. (3.0+)
Prophanity
Neo Member
Long have I lurked on the GAF, and finally after a month of limbo my account has been verified! Woot!
A quick question about joining the org if I may. Do you guys allow for associate members? I'm the lead of a very small org, Metal Heads, and also a member of Bit-Sec (of the Bit-Tech forums) as their lead is a friend of mine. I'd also like to be a part of the GAF fleet as well
A quick question about joining the org if I may. Do you guys allow for associate members? I'm the lead of a very small org, Metal Heads, and also a member of Bit-Sec (of the Bit-Tech forums) as their lead is a friend of mine. I'd also like to be a part of the GAF fleet as well
Rephin
Member
Long have I lurked on the GAF, and finally after a month of limbo my account has been verified! Woot!
A quick question about joining the org if I may. Do you guys allow for associate members? I'm the lead of a very small org, Metal Heads, and also a member of Bit-Sec (of the Bit-Tech forums) as their lead is a friend of mine. I'd also like to be a part of the GAF fleet as well
Several members have a few organizations under their belt themselves, so I don't see why not. Send in an application to the GAF org and we'll probably let you in.
Zalusithix
Member
Long have I lurked on the GAF, and finally after a month of limbo my account has been verified! Woot!
A quick question about joining the org if I may. Do you guys allow for associate members? I'm the lead of a very small org, Metal Heads, and also a member of Bit-Sec (of the Bit-Tech forums) as their lead is a friend of mine. I'd also like to be a part of the GAF fleet as well
We don't have any rules against affiliate members. Policing it would be next to impossible for any practical purposes even if we did. CIG has intentionally made it so anybody could be a mole so to speak. Only small orgs where everybody knows each other well can avoid that pitfall. That said, we do have the loose requirement of having to be a GAF member, though exceptions are made for friends of members. You've cleared that requirement by gaining membership here (which as you've noted is a fairly big hoop to jump through in the first place), so you're good to go.
Obviously as an affiliate member you'd still be bound to the same sort of standards that all members of this forum are held to. Actions that can get you perma-banned on the forum will likely get you expelled from the org as well. That's not to say that any and every ban here would result in an expulsion, as some conditions here are rather inconsequential for org purposes, but general behavior expectations are the same. Not that I expect that to be an issue.
Mind you, we don't have any official groundwork laid for org alliances and whatnot yet. Much like the actual internal formation of our org, that sort of stuff is in flux while we wait for CIG to actually start working on organizations again.
staticneuron
Member
Well most of their work seems to be setup around procedural, iterative, or design schema blocks. Because of that it is not to say that work in one area only benefits that one asset. Like how all ship manufacturers have shared texture, color, and physical design cues, the work on grim hex may also be a template for lawless and/or broken stations in state of partial functionality.
Design is one thing, seeing how it works in the engine is another. Them testing limits doesn't mean that they didn't finish asset work already (we have actually seen many assets) this is most likely about implementation. And CIG already shows they are trying to be systematic about this. Remember after 2.6 and entire system goes up including Nyx.
Production Schedule Report is up.
Current goal for 2.6 is December 16th.
There's a lot of nifty charts included as well:
2.6.0 Overview
Star Marine
Arena Commander Balance/Improvements
Tech/Systems
Content
UI and Front End Refactor
Mega Map (Stretch Goal)
The rest of it is worth reading, there's a lot of stuff included.
Current goal for 2.6 is December 16th.
There's a lot of nifty charts included as well:
2.6.0 Overview
Star Marine
Arena Commander Balance/Improvements
Tech/Systems
Content
UI and Front End Refactor
Mega Map (Stretch Goal)
The rest of it is worth reading, there's a lot of stuff included.
That isn't Star Marine, just a dude walking around in a Caterpillar, using some mysterious feature they haven't discussed yet.
Video descriptions were updated - NON-EVOCATI-OFFLINE-MODE
Guess this is a variant of that offline mode map replacement hack? I wouldn't put too much weight on it.
Yeah, people are using cheat engine to trick the launcher into downloading 2.6 packages.
I think the reworked Cutlass looks great. Hope the 300 series rework turns out just as well, the 85x is a step in the right direction.
https://youtu.be/itWLCPwQ7rg?t=28
https://youtu.be/itWLCPwQ7rg?t=28
Zalusithix
Member
I think the reworked Cutlass looks great. Hope the 300 series rework turns out just as well, the 85x is a step in the right direction.
https://youtu.be/itWLCPwQ7rg?t=28
I sure hope so. The only 300 series ship I like these days is the 350R, and that's only certain parts of the outside. (I'm a sucker for the twin engine.) The inside is bleh all around - relatively speaking at least. SC has spoiled me with expectations on ship design.
Bo Knows GAF
Member
I wonder why the Comm link this week is still not out yet. This is the latest I can remember it taking other than for Holiday reasons. I realize I'm East Coast so PST still have some work day left but still
Looks like Disco put it up about 9 hours ago, but you are right he was very late on this one.
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/community/devtracker
masterkajo
Member
Oh wow... I am impressed.
"Holiday Livestream next Friday"
hype hype hype
Woo, almost there. Wonder how things are looking for the SQ42 mission demo.
"Holiday Livestream next Friday"
hype hype hype
I want it to happen so badly, but I have a feeling it won't.
SeanNoonan
Member
Oops indeed. Don't spoil the magic
Indeed.
Would be nice.
I'd love to see that.
Dictator93
Member
No, I would hate that! Am I not the resident Star Citizen hater?
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
lol
I think they would be beating their drums if it were happening. Though given the state of flight mechanics in 2.6 upcoming they still have no clue on what they are doing. Hopefully they try to actually fix it before locking down the campaign.
Zalusithix
Member
No, you want to see it, and then hate on what you saw afterwards. Geez, don't you know your role here?
What is wrong with the new mechanics? Just asking?
I know I hated the pre-2.6, so changes are good in my book.
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
Basically they are fully into the "fuck physics" iteration of flight right now. A couple points:
1. Lowering speed is fine but not the way to bring in the dogfighting distance. Now IM (aim to fly) will have an even larger advantage because doing damage is easier to put the cursor over a slower moving ship. They need to address, and frankly remove, the focus on pixel perfect aiming to achieve hit.
2. Improved acceleration and the boost mechanic on top of it to eliminate the need for thoughtful maneuvering. If you can stop and start on a dime, combined with reaching top SCM speed even easier it is basically an FPS in space. Ships will behave even more like hummingbirds ignoring mass.
3. They are replacing a convoluted flight state system with an even more convoluted boost/afterburner system. Now there are 2 extra
4. They say they want to encourage fighting switching between flight states but with recharging shields and the gulf between cruise and SCM this essentially empowers the dude sitting stationary and boosting out of the path of the cruising ship. They also haven't addressed if there will be an increase in ballistics power at cruise, or if missiles can intercept at or from cruise.
5. And G forces seem to be removed, because lol why worry about G-forces now.
Basically we are getting a system that punishes flying and encourages FPS gameplay.
I was a fan enough of the mechanics in 2.5, but was happy to hear about what they were doing with 2.6. What do you suggest they implement instead? I agreed with them that there was an issue with ships simply being way to far apart to really feel fun.
Of course this is the issue with sci fi right, like real space combat would be something more akin to a joust than dogfighting. But what fun is that. So to some degree they do have to ignore physics to get something fun.
In general emulating FPS combat does make logical sense since--well it seems like people really like FPS gameplay. However the bastardized idea that is COD's latest version of space combat sounds more like what they are going for with 2.6 How does 2.6 feel in comparison to COD?
I didn't really follow the 2.6 flight news, only read that it was slower. I didn't spent that much time in arena commander but imho it already felt like the acceleration was too strong, now I read that they increased it... I'm truly afraid.
Anyway we're still in alpha, they could still rework the reworked flight.
Hah yeah, I suppose I figured with the way he was speaking he might have. However even if he did he can't talk about it so it's irrelevant.
I would love to see a SQ42 demo
Chances are incredibly slim unfortunately.
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
The FPS gameplay isn't a result of space, it's inherent in the SCs flight mechanics. The maneuvering thrusters are as whole overpowered. Just about every non-flash space game doesn't have this problem. Since I'm in a list mood:
*trigger warning, I will reference Elite, not because SC should emulate it but to acknowledge what they get right in terms of feel and combat balance*
1. Lower the power of maneuvering thrusters, they should only be able to output ~half of main thrusters (some ships will be different of course). Will make fine maneuvering more manageable so aiming weapons through flight becomes easier and we can eliminate the terrible ESP.
2. Raise the speed cap while lowering the ship acceleration. This will put emphasis on energy management and making the right maneuver. Also this puts a penalty to players who try work against the momentum of the ship making chases and actual dogfights the norm. Will also layer decoupling to work with ship momentum for the best pilots fly in the most effective manor. Energy management also opens fighting styles for ships like tight turning fighters or boom and zoom tactics.
3. Eliminate IM and the aim to fly dependency. Having a proper V-joy and relative mode ensures that players are playing the same game across control methods.
4. Have gimbals work from an automated system and take direct control of them from the pilot. Like Elite have them tracking but SC could do a lot more with the signal/noise and e-war suites in ships. Having systems to defeat them or upgradable systems to make them more effective adds another layer to ship building and more styles for pilots to choose from.
5. Have the cruise/SCM/Landing/docking work like trim modes in other flight games. Cruise would kick in after reaching a certain speed (say 85%+) percentage in SCM and toggle the thrust mode to switch to AB. Adjusting the mode to land would work in the opposite with lowering to a certain percentage (say 10%) and changing the thrust mode to landing/docking and deploy the gear/collar when you are close.
My main point is to make the flight rely on the physics of the game and not trying to defeat it at every turn.
MasterOfPastures
Banned
No. Space turreting is fun. And a faux WW2 flight model is ass. It is the most infuriating thing in Elite. And these 2.6 changes seem to be going in that direction.
I just Freelancer with truly innovative tech (which we are getting).
I just Freelancer with truly innovative tech (which we are getting).
If you prefer to aim then to fly/pilot your ship maybe, and prefer to play with a mouse.
I like the fact that in Elite, a good pilot actually has an advantage. I'm open for something different thought, but turrets in space and ships without mass, not so much...
Are you actually playing? I'm flying a Sabre here and it's carrying plenty of momentum:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLlqKd53ldM
(some narrow asteroid misses around 15:00-15:20)
The pitch+roll dogfighting style in Elite is the result of a style choice - lower pitch/roll rates and significantly lower yaw rates. It's not like the "flight model" is much different. SC could do the same thing overnight with a few XML edits.
Edit: to be fair, PVP does wind up as circle-strafing unless people make an effort to avoid it
To each his own, but what I see in this video is far from what I would call plenty of momentum.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLlqKd53ldM&feature=youtu.be&t=1m36s and even what you speak of at around https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLlqKd53ldM&feature=youtu.be&t=15m11s feel pretty insignificant momentum wise.
Well not exactly, it's not that there isn't momentum, it's that acceleration is so strong that you can cancel that momentum to do a 180 and already be at full speed in a matter of about 3 secondes ( at those narrow asteroid misses around 15:00-15:20, it take you about 3 secondes ( 15:13- to 15:16 ) to go from a negative 200 speed to a positive 222 speed if I'm still reading the hud right ).
That's true, the thrusters are crazy strong at times. I remember someone crunching the numbers based on velocity changes and it came out to something like 30 g.
That quick asteroid 180 was with the help of afterburner and the main engines being pointed in the right direction.
That quick asteroid 180 was with the help of afterburner and the main engines being pointed in the right direction.
Ahah that wouldn't surprise me.
I mean thanks god it was with the main engine. The general idea is still that there seems to be little reason to try to keep your momentum, I can only see it leading to jousting with some 180°, or circle straffing. Imho that would be pretty disapointing ( but again nothing is set in stone I get that ) even more so once bigger ships enter the equation.
Actually I checked the math on that afterburner reversal and it worked out to about 14g, so at least they're not quite that far off any more. (-200 to 222 is 422, applied over 3 seconds ~= 140 m/s2, with 9.8 m/s2 per g)
http://www.endmemo.com/sconvert/m_s2g.php
Zalusithix
Member
That's within human tolerances. Good enough!
Outrun
Member
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