Besthelboy
Banned
Things can change on a daily or even hourly basis, I prefer weekly updates since it's gives a wider view of how progress is coming along. Missing a PTU range is explained by the caveats.
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Star Citizen Alpha 2.0 | The 'Verse Awakens
- Thread starter Raticus79
- Start date
Things can change on a daily or even hourly basis, I prefer weekly updates since it's gives a wider view of how progress is coming along. Missing a PTU range is explained by the caveats.
Anton Sugar
Member
Is there any information available on the proposed in-game progression system in SC? If the ships are only going to become more expensive the closer to launch we get, will their price have an analog to the game? For example, if a ship costs $250, does that equal an estimated X number of hours of in-game time?
I honestly have next to no knowledge on the progression, so I'm wondering what their philosophy is. Is it even accurate to say that ships will get more expensive? It seems like the ship prices now are a part of the ongoing crowd-funding campaign, after all. Will they drop to far more reasonable prices post-launch? Or is this all an unknown at this point?
Has anyone watched the Extra Credits vids on progression system pitfalls/faults? Some of them definitely hit home with Elite.
Multi-crew "Commanders" update is coming before the release of the PS4 version of Elite in Q2 2017. That's multi-crew/coop flying.
"Space legs" isn't coming in this season, but we don't know what's coming in next season.
As I'm sure a lot of you know, Braben stated from the very beginning that FPS gameplay has been a part of the roadmap from the start. They're actually pretty damned faithful to their roadmaps and initial concepts. Their bullet point features (ship boarding/stealing, zero G gameplay/combat, EVA repairs, land and underwater vehicles, atmospheric planets with alien life) are not too dissimilar from SC's.
I honestly have next to no knowledge on the progression, so I'm wondering what their philosophy is. Is it even accurate to say that ships will get more expensive? It seems like the ship prices now are a part of the ongoing crowd-funding campaign, after all. Will they drop to far more reasonable prices post-launch? Or is this all an unknown at this point?
Has anyone watched the Extra Credits vids on progression system pitfalls/faults? Some of them definitely hit home with Elite.
Multi-crew "Commanders" update is coming before the release of the PS4 version of Elite in Q2 2017. That's multi-crew/coop flying.
"Space legs" isn't coming in this season, but we don't know what's coming in next season.
As I'm sure a lot of you know, Braben stated from the very beginning that FPS gameplay has been a part of the roadmap from the start. They're actually pretty damned faithful to their roadmaps and initial concepts. Their bullet point features (ship boarding/stealing, zero G gameplay/combat, EVA repairs, land and underwater vehicles, atmospheric planets with alien life) are not too dissimilar from SC's.
I was looking for that earlier as well. Lando has not posted yet
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/community/devtracker
https://youtu.be/qKH1B1p9TgM?t=1088
This should answer the progression question somewhat. The whole video is pretty interesting too.
11 AM PST / 7 PM GMT from the newsletter, so 8PM CET
Get fucking hyped.
Zalusithix
Member
CIG finished with a livestream a mere 2 hours after the scheduled start time? Are they giving out free Javelins to all watchers to commemorate this holiday miracle?
Seated coop, aka, "multicrew", see below. And no, they won't. What Anton said: seeing as they've given an implicit deadline for "seated coop", which is some time between Q1 and Q2 '17 before the PS4 port's release in Q2 '17, the E3 '17 is end of Q2 '17 and if we get any news by then, it may well be whatever seasons 3 will bring. Basic first person "space legs" game mechanics looking like a likely candidate as it's been touted since the 2014 release and seeing as the preceding 2.3 update adds an avatar creator and multicrew. While I don't think they have touted FPS shooterage specifically, it's rather safe to assume that there will be some form of combat involved once "space legs" make their debut.
Call Frontier then and tell them the error of their ways: "Multicrew. Allowing teams of players to assume roles aboard the same ship". But silly me, it can't be multicrew unless they can also freely walk through the ship and use the hell out of those <<use>> prompts and man every single turret individually for maximum dizzyness.
Onto the holiday livestream then. If indeed we get the "missed by a hair's width" Squadron 42 footage, I expect worthy.gifs.
UpDownLeftRight
Banned
Aka, "multicrew", see below. What Anton said: seeing as they've given a deadline for "seated coop", which is some time between Q1 and Q2 '17 before the PS4 port's release, yes E3 '17 is end of Q2 17 and if we get any news by then, it may well be whatever seasons 3 will bring. Basic first person "space legs" game mechanics looking like a likely candidate as it's been touted since the 2014 release and seeing as the preceding 2.3 update adds an avatar creator and multicrew. While I don#t think they have touted FPS shooterage specifically, it's rather safe to assume that there will be some form of combat involved once "space legs" make their debut.
Call Frontier then and tell them the error of their ways: "Multicrew. Allowing teams of players to assume roles aboard the same ship". But silly me, it can't be multicrew unless they can also freely walk through the ship and use the hell out of those <<use>> prompts and man every single turret individually for maximum dizzyness.
Onto the holiday livestream then. If indeed we get the "missed by a hair's width" Squadron 42 footage, I expect worthy.gifs.
That's actually their plan for next year? That's a huge disappointment IMO. Being glued to the seats and unable to move around the ship is a pretty big turn off for me. There's a reasonable number of ships I was hoping to see the full interior of next year.
Regardless it's pretty disingenuous to treat Elite as some platform from which to criticize any game from. Both SC and Elite have been moving at a snails pace for a while now. It could be argued that Elite is in a worse position for having been out for so long by now yet still suffer from the 'mile wide, inch deep' complaints from it's core community on a regular basis, and rightfully so IMO as Elite is not at all at the quality it could be.
I'd also like to point out this doesn't need to be some weird fanboy war of facing one against the other. Both these games are the best chance we've had at a full scale revival of a dead niche genre in a long time so we should be wishing them all the best.
Also, why don't you just ask for a refund and be done with the game? the SC thread has become the 'argue with Burny' thread for the longest damn time to the point a lot of people don't even bother posting here now.
It was their plan for this year, at least that's what it sounded like when Horizons was released. But they're at least half a year behind that schedule now, so "season 2" (2.3/2.4) bleeds into 2017, as said, potentially until Q2. It's entirely open what or when season 3 is going to be, though I'd personally be pretty disappointed if there's no sign or at least ETA of it around E3 '17. As for moving at a snail's pace, from a functional PoV, the two updates for Elite this year brought more functional changes than about the entire first "season" of the game. But it's true, the mile wide, inch deep criticism still applies for most parts of Elite.
A lot of people can speak for themselves. And me getting a refund wouldn't put Star Citizen in a better position than it is today, retractively make them keep deadlines, treat backers etc. yadda, yadda.
Anton Sugar
Member
Thanks tux, gonna listen to/watch this at work today.
No, it's not their plan for next year--multi-crew is the last update for Season 2. I think Burny is referring to "space legs" possibly being Season 3, which was originally going to launch in winter of this year but they're behind schedule. I'm in no rush for them to add space legs unless their is deep gameplay that goes with it. Walking around your ship isn't enough--the last thing Elite needs is another "mushy dough" feature.
And, to be fair to Burny, he's not the one who first brought up Elite for comparison this time around.
UpDownLeftRight
Banned
Yeah you're right, and that was a bit rude of me too so I do apologize. Just gets a little exhausting when it seems as if you've lost all hope on it at times or are completely down on the project, even if realistically we're likely all hoping the best for both these games. That's not to say there aren't some truths in your complaints either though. SC for me has fallen to around the same hype level as E
to be honest where I'm just complacently waiting rather than expecting anything now.I do think backer confidence is lowering due to the S42 slip earlier this year that still hasn't been fulfilled and I'm not particularly expecting it to be tonight either. I really hope 2017 is kinder to both games as neither felt like they really hit the stride people were expecting this year.
I do look forward to the feature for pure immersion purposes but yeah you're right, there's bigger issues to address first.
Zalusithix
Member
I brought it up to highlight that releasing something out of alpha just so you can say that you released something isn't exactly a superior way of going about things. Star Citizen gets hammered on for protracted development, but Elite got a stigma of being a released game with gameplay a mile wide and an inch deep. A stigma that it still hasn't been able to shake. Negative impressions stick with released and reviewed games more than development issues do to unreleased games.
The conversation has since veered off course to be a contest about what's available both now and in the future which is rather tangential to what my point was, but alas.
Zalusithix
Member
It's not over until the fat lady sings. They could intentionally be keeping everybody in suspense. Don't worry though. If it happens, it'll happen after 10:00 PM your time. =P
iHaunter
Member
Last few streams were pretty on schedule.
Zalusithix
Member
Last few? Was your clock broken for CitizenCon? =P
iHaunter
Member
Well, kiiinda.
It was more about the fact that these livestreams tend to go to overtime more often than not, which is something I usually don't mind at all. Today though ... yeah.Then I'll speak for myself and say that your continual threadshitting has nearly driven me to unsubscribe from this thread. Please stop.
iHaunter
Member
RubberJohnny
Banned
Burny isn't "threadshitting", comparing the development to other, similar games, it's no secret CIG have struggled - what 300 people have visibly achieved this year is less than a game with a far smaller development budget and team that released years ago and is now maintained by a skeleton crew. They've added passenger missions, carried fighters and all sorts, and we have one new space station and clothes shopping.
At the moment everything we're waiting and not expecting until next year is something we were also waiting for last year - SQ42, Star Marine, even the content that's in 3.0 was promised as the next patch in August 2015
Reading the monthly updates around then, some work was actually done on those, but only for a few months. All the content for the 3.0, 3.X series patches was originally planned for the 2.0, 2.X ones, and Lando mentioned they planned to add extra star systems in 3.0, which is now 4.0. Everything basically got delayed a year and rebranded.
At the moment everything we're waiting and not expecting until next year is something we were also waiting for last year - SQ42, Star Marine, even the content that's in 3.0 was promised as the next patch in August 2015
Reading the monthly updates around then, some work was actually done on those, but only for a few months. All the content for the 3.0, 3.X series patches was originally planned for the 2.0, 2.X ones, and Lando mentioned they planned to add extra star systems in 3.0, which is now 4.0. Everything basically got delayed a year and rebranded.
iHaunter
Member
Say what? They're also building a 60 hour Single Player campaign, a lot of the ships like Bengal can crew 100+ people and are enormous, the graphics and technical detail need to be on par with the other ships.
It takes a shittonne of work to get stuff like that done, they have 20 people dedicated to each of those ships and they have even larger assets like the Vanduul Kingship and others. It seems slow because a lot of the development is going toward SQ42 so Star Citizen's open universe is taking slower.
I don't get where the confusion lies, truly...
RubberJohnny
Banned
I mentioned "visibly achieved" so I don't know why you're confused, I'm sure there's plenty of work going on that we don't see, I'm just pointing out why it's clear people would be annoyed, we've got a lot of promises and little to no delivery at the moment.
Like I'd feel better about SQ42 getting the lion's share of the development effort if we actually got to see a bit of the quality level they're aiming for with the finished game.
iHaunter
Member
I think that's the biggest gripe that's been quickly growing from many of the backers currently. All this work has been going into SQ42 for a while now, a lot of resources are being poured into it, yet we haven't see a single meaningful piece of it.
I'm personally alright with it, but I can understand why some are not. Comparing ED to SC isn't really a comparison that makes sense. When most of ED's world is built to be randomly generated planets, where most of the gameplay is hauling around cargo, no first person- points are moot.
SC will always take longer in all aspects to develop because they're doing everything from the ground up and primarily hand-crafted.
RubberJohnny
Banned
But we're not comparing how long it takes to make art assets, we're talking gameplay features. Elite had a vertical slice of all their mechanics ready six months into the kickstarter, we're now in Star Citizens fifth year of development and no vertical slice in sight. For a much bigger development team and a much longer period of development, we should really be expecting to have like a first draft of the main systems all complete years ago.
Also saying "well it's not a good comparison because most of ED's world is procedurally generate planets", when most of Star Citizens world will be procedurally generated planets, that doesn't make much sense and actually undermines your point, making the comparison even more valid.
Also saying "well it's not a good comparison because most of ED's world is procedurally generate planets", when most of Star Citizens world will be procedurally generated planets, that doesn't make much sense and actually undermines your point, making the comparison even more valid.
iHaunter
Member
SC has been in development for 4 years.
Most of SC planets will be procedurally generated and THEN hand crafted. The whole point of the procedural generation is to have a basic planet to mold. This has been stated multiple times.
"Such a bigger development team." Are you serious? For the first year they had what 16-30 people? They didn't START with $130+ million. They didn't START with 360+ employees. Yes if they had all of THAT in the beginning development would've been much faster. They had a very very primitive plan in place, no pipe-lines which are very important. The whole point of this was to make a game that couldn't be made, there's no predisposed way of doing this in that regard. Have their been issues with the development? Sure, every studio faces that. Look how many times Bioshock Infinite was made, then remade, then remade again. It just seems much more obvious because of the open development.
How can you talk about SC when you're so ignorant on the subject.
RubberJohnny
Banned
The four year anniversary was Citicon, they even had a cake onstage. That means we're in the fifth year now, which is what I said.
See this is funny, because if I'd have questioned how long it would have taken to do 100 landing zones, you'd have said "well they're using procedurally generation for the planets so it won't take long", but when the conversation is about procedural generation suddenly it's "primarily hand-crafted". You constantly dart between the two, trying to keep it in a wishy washy middle ground where it's immune to criticism.
iHaunter
Member
I edited my post, read it again.
Edit: It's not even worth it, you do you.
Edit: Yes landing ZONES can be copy/pasted as they are just assets.
RubberJohnny
Banned
They had a lot more outsourced workers who you're not counting. By 2013, they had 60-80 people at Behaviour working on Landing Zones like ArcCorp and Terra Prime, as well as Void Alpha, 3lateral and Cubic Motion, Moon Collider, Illfonic, Streamline Studios, Confetti Special FX, CGBot, Liquid Development, Massive Black and Atomahawk Design. All of these are mentioned in portfolios or Monthly Reports; they didn't move development in house until the end of last year (which is when progress seemed to slow down, unfortunately).
Bioshock Infinite isn't exactly an example of "every studio", it's an example of "studio that goes under because the main guy is a perfectionist and no-one tells him no", that's not a great comparison to be making.
Thanks for proving my point.
iHaunter
Member
Copy/Pasting assets = Procedural Generation
Thanks for proving my point.
Edit: Prove to me that the Studio is going under? These idiotic accusations are truly getting out of control. Not to mention Illfonic made practically reverse progress in regards to FPS. I agree that, that was a mistake. They were in a rush to get the FPS portion done, it was a draw-back.
Edit2: I would like a single OUNCE of proof that CIG is going under other than dipshart spouting his bs on twitter.
RubberJohnny
Banned
I didn't suggest it was, I pointed out your comparison to Bioshock Infinite could be seen as you suggesting that, given what happened to Irrational Games.
You don't seem to be able to follow a conversation and the flow of "point-counterpoint" very well. You misread from the very first post with "visibly" and got confused by things like "in its fifth year". How old are you?
Get hyped for SQ42!
iHaunter
Member
If they show SQ42 it'll be pretty hype.
But I'm always down to see more FPS progress. Buddy of mine is an avacado. He was impressed with the animations shown thus far, what he's played anyway.
No pics or vids though. NDA and all that.
staticneuron
Member
There is a slight difference but I have pointed it out before. Normally if one or more posters only posts criticism using illogical stances, arguments that have been debated or disproven, we would consider them concern trolling right? Especially if they have done it for over two years across multiple threads? What about those who specifically said in another forum that the trolling was stated goal?
No?
Ok I will take your word for it. I refuse to feed into that nonsense anymore. Yet I still manage to see huge chunks of ignored posts every now and then in this thread. I do admire the persistence.
I will be enjoying the livestream today though!
kutthoat5150
Member
Planet tech 3.0 already? I want to see some wildlife on planets with crysis like jungles
iHaunter
Member
That's true, they did once show a small snippit of a Crysis-esque jungle, though we haven't seen it in a world before.
I like what I've seen so far, I'm sure they'll be a lot more iterations of planet tech version, i.e. ver 3, 4, etc.
I wonder if they can procedurally generate wild-life? Seems like an enormous undertaking.
Pretty much sums that up yeah. These are the first two I added to my ignore list on GAF.
Live stream hype!
staticneuron
Member
To this day Crysis 3 still wows me. That overrun New York was amazing looking.
Not happening: http://us5.campaign-archive1.com/?u=32d8ef31243db6075c45571bd&id=47ffb69bce&e=056c875a6d
Star Citizen Newsletter - Holiday Livestream! said:
RubberJohnny
Banned
Geez, if they can't get one chapter ready with three extra months, what hopes for them finishing the other 27 chapters in the next 12 months?
I'm expecting 2018 at this point.
I'm expecting 2018 at this point.
Anton Sugar
Member
Well, poo.
Lack of progress in Squadron 42 is why I asked for a refund....
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