What are you on about... the Mobiglass and the technology behind it is the foundation of your entire interaction within the game world. With it you will control your character customisation, character status, inventory, ship load outs, environment status, banking, job board, mission status, communications including video, contact lists, integrated star map and navigation, and those are just a few of the current features all of which have been consolidated into one elegant and easy to use interface that does not take you out of the game world in order to use... and yet somehow you have the temerity to dismiss the tech as being nothing more than water in a glass? Good grief your trolling could not be more obvious if you tried.
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Star Citizen Alpha 2.0 | The 'Verse Awakens
- Thread starter Raticus79
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What are you on about... the Mobiglass and the technology behind it is the foundation of your entire interaction within the game world. With it you will control your character customisation, character status, inventory, ship load outs, environment status, banking, job board, mission status, communications including video, contact lists, integrated star map and navigation, and those are just a few of the current features all of which have been consolidated into one elegant and easy to use interface that does not take you out of the game world in order to use... and yet somehow you have the temerity to dismiss the tech as being nothing more than water in a glass? Good grief your trolling could not be more obvious if you tried.
iHaunter
Member
I don't know how you're not embarrassed posting so much non-sense for so long.
Do you literally have nothing better to do?
You are a clear example of not knowing what game development is. If you actually try to look into what they are trying to do, and already is, then maybe you would think differently.
In no way is this showing bad. It is actually refreshing to see presentations done live with early code. Shit happens, and they go with it. There are thousands of things trying to interact here. Syncing all over the net code is very difficult.
When the game is closing in on the beta versions, you might begin to worry. Until that happens, just be happy that the game works at all. The miss use of early-access, alpha, beta the current games industry have been doing the last 5 years is clearly hurting publics interpretation of what alpha/beta is.
LostCaress
Member
It's their fifth gamescom presence.
Cabbagehead
Member
There's truly a lot of double standards going in reaction to this project. Even as people play and endorse semi-decent buggy/unfinished early access games - as they willingly push the prespection that the gaming community is totally fine with games that will never be finished products. To me thr standards are continuing to be lowered in the traditional triple A realm given all the horror stories. Out there.
As you pointed out at the end, this is becoming a issue. Fact is people have some pretty bipolar attitude towards crashes and bugs (even when pre warned) in relation to a particular game. Like some folks are totally okay one minute with "fake" demo showcase, that strangely issue free. But in the end it doesn't really speak to the products future down the line. Onky for them to complain about other games that doesnt have any obligation to sugar-coat their product. Because the community paid for the product to be open. Yet certain games get a pass, while other's get buried
All of it is kind of wishy-washy.
It's the same with those that have this strange ability to see the final future of IP and deem it doomed to fail. Just one giant self-fulfilling prophecy. I always see folks bitching about these super scripted demos, but in truth they expect them as some kind of showcase standard. But i myself feel like it's a smoke and mirrors play, after i noticed the changes to The Division, as it became clearer and clearer each year, that it wasn't going to be the same game from its E3 reveal.
Which is why CIG's method and development visibility gives me confidence, simply because they show almost everything regardless of the state like they promised. Plus certain things aren't going to be smooth given the development stage it's in and so far the core vision (along with a bunch of tech leaps and new features) has stayed the same. With each passing year.
Recently everything seemed fine in another crowd source game, Shroud of the Avatars then they got into a bad spot financially, were forced to show their books, and things were actually pretty damn bad for a long time without the backers knowing it.
Without access to the companies books, we can never be sure about the actual state of the production. Saying "Oh wait till things actually go to beta before complaining that things are janky" might not apply to this game because it can go critical over the course of a few months and it MIGHT NOT EVEN GET TO BETA.
Seems unthinkable I know, but 3-4m dollars a month being used in production could eat up anything they've nested egged really quickly.
Without access to the companies books, we can never be sure about the actual state of the production. Saying "Oh wait till things actually go to beta before complaining that things are janky" might not apply to this game because it can go critical over the course of a few months and it MIGHT NOT EVEN GET TO BETA.
Seems unthinkable I know, but 3-4m dollars a month being used in production could eat up anything they've nested egged really quickly.
Not at the moment. Sorry.
Dictator93
Member
The current news is the same as the old news, all SQ42 missions were reintegrated to work with subsumption AI and planetary tech instead of being separate little ".cry" files. We will see it, presumably, at citizencon with a (presumably) announced release date. At this point, I would say some time in 2018. Probably summer?
Next stop for news is Citizencon coming up October 25.
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/15961-CitizenCon-Tickets-Announcement
They haven't said much about it, but that's what the focus is usually on for this event.
edit: lol
Cabbagehead
Member
SQ42 information is usually primed for CitizenCon. But they have touched on the game over the last few months and have shown some related content and characters recently enough. To know that it's still coming.
But the fact is that AI specifically and a few other features is currently keeping it in the oven. Mind you these are things that are connected to the MMO aswell.
They are working on it, and showing bits and pieces over the last month. They showed a little of Mark Hammil's animations, and how they are implementing new hologram technology that can not only render 3D vector graphics [with intependant pieces that can be colored independently in real-time, good for briefing videos] but can also reproduce full 3D models that are rendered somewhere far from the current location of the player.
They are working on narrative [they filmed a lot of actors], animatinos, and mission strucutres, but they cannot finish the game until the base gameplay systems used in MMO part of the game [movement between zones, localized gravity, AI, animation, combat] are done.
I'm not in a rush for it to be out, but I hope they will show more at Citizencon.
Heavily scripted showings are kind of hit and miss. As long as they show the core of the game, and dont try to show off their future vision. Games can change quite a bit during development as some stuff doesn't work, or it might change the scope of the game itself. I would rather have games be shown at a later state of development. Having the public "alpha/beta-test" their product is a trend I am not a fan of. At least let that public test have a greater effect on the game.
To be fair, CIG is in a different position than most developers. It needs to have the public view their product in active development. It is what the public have paid for. Despite that I am a fan of it, as it is a more honest way of presenting it. Rather than leading us on and letting it be more than it is, or will be.
Seeing some comments about that it is a poor showing, might also be a minor mistake by CIG tho, as they are not explaining better about the state of it.
Cabbagehead
Member
Talk about hyperbole. Didn't know you looked and judge a lot of games in alpha state before you even play them or see the finished product. Which is in fact what you saw.
Plus that was a syncing issue, it was played live and not pre-recorded. They've shown plenty of clips of those animations and they worked just fine. The fact is that what you watched was a live build from their internal drives, touched up and turned on for backers to see their progress and that's final.
They even pre-faced the demo with it being buggy and that it will have issues. So that's why it's not out yet.
Minus the idris and the battle involving them being a thing for 3.0.
Lets not kid ourselves, the reason it's backer only is because otherwise the crowd would be calling them out on their lack of progress.
Of course the whole thing is a promotion to get more money. It's just that at this point, the most likely to give them more are those who already believed in them.
Thank you for the replies.
I appreciate it, I don't follow the development of this game closely. I do check this thread periodically and the gifs are always amazing.
nice!
if I don't forget I'll check this thread in October. Hopefully there will be more info then.
interesting, I was thinking that they would script SQ42 AI and "planets". That explains the "lack" of news.
you know you wrote a lot but holy Molly at that gif.
I didn't know that SQ42 was using so much from MMO, I was expecting they would script most of the "complex" stuff.
While I'm in no rush to pay the game the more I see about the game the harder it is to wait.
TBF to the dev, even if sQ42 is just freelancer with new story and graphics I'll buy it.
I still wish there was just a tad bit more information about how the plan for sq42.
I appreciate it, I don't follow the development of this game closely. I do check this thread periodically and the gifs are always amazing.
nice!
if I don't forget I'll check this thread in October. Hopefully there will be more info then.
interesting, I was thinking that they would script SQ42 AI and "planets". That explains the "lack" of news.
They are working on it, and showing bits and pieces over the last month. They showed a little of Mark Hammil's animations, and how they are implementing new hologram technology that can not only render 3D vector graphics [with intependant pieces that can be colored independently in real-time, good for briefing videos] but can also reproduce full 3D models that are rendered somewhere far from the current location of the player.
They are working on narrative [they filmed a lot of actors], animatinos, and mission strucutres, but they cannot finish the game until the base gameplay systems used in MMO part of the game [movement between zones, localized gravity, AI, animation, combat] are done.
I'm not in a rush for it to be out, but I hope they will show more at Citizencon.
you know you wrote a lot but holy Molly at that gif.
I didn't know that SQ42 was using so much from MMO, I was expecting they would script most of the "complex" stuff.
While I'm in no rush to pay the game the more I see about the game the harder it is to wait.
TBF to the dev, even if sQ42 is just freelancer with new story and graphics I'll buy it.
I still wish there was just a tad bit more information about how the plan for sq42.
After digesting the demo for a few days my only true gripe was the laborious interactions that were showcased and I hope they can tune up as time goes on. Watching how many steps it took just to do actions as simple as closing a door or turning on the engine were really bothersome, to the point where I think it could actually impact enjoyment with how "realistic" they want to go. Yeah closing the backdoor to your buggy by physically being there to do it makes sense but the way the player did that action just seemed very slow, almost like it needs a speedup by two times.
Other actions I noticed being particularly slow was engine interaction on the ships or buggy. In high-pressure, super intense times you want your UI to be intuitive enough that it gives you the details you need on the fly but also not be in your way when needing to manually override. If I was given the game right now I'd struggle with trying to turn on the engine by having to face the panel, scroll the menu to selecting it on then snapping back to view.
But hey, all of these issues I personally noticed can very well be eliminated through tweaking from player feedback and I know for certain they'll get that come 3.0 release. I'm keen to see how they shape the UI as it has the chance to truly offer detail when needed but also be streamlined for high-octane moments like the Idris fight.
Other actions I noticed being particularly slow was engine interaction on the ships or buggy. In high-pressure, super intense times you want your UI to be intuitive enough that it gives you the details you need on the fly but also not be in your way when needing to manually override. If I was given the game right now I'd struggle with trying to turn on the engine by having to face the panel, scroll the menu to selecting it on then snapping back to view.
But hey, all of these issues I personally noticed can very well be eliminated through tweaking from player feedback and I know for certain they'll get that come 3.0 release. I'm keen to see how they shape the UI as it has the chance to truly offer detail when needed but also be streamlined for high-octane moments like the Idris fight.
Zambayoshi
Member
Borderlands came up with the Echo Device in 2009. It was simple, elegant and didn't remove you from the game world (the last of which is highly arguable for both Echo Device and Mobiglas).
My point, which stands, is that Chris gets all excited about the latest doodad, gadget or gameplay loop and forgets that there has to be a SOLID foundation for all of this technical bling.
That being said, Chris is in a uniquely invidious position, where he NEEDS to show technical bling to keep the dollars rolling in. I don't know what the solution is, but as much as Chris might be impressing people with bells and whistles, he sure isn't impressing them with buggy physics, 5 years in.
Dictator93
Member
I think there are a couple things leading up to them looking the way they do in the Gamescom footage.
You have people playing with m + kb, which of course has turn and reaction rates which are indeed faster and more responsive than these movements are in real life (you can arc and turn faster with a mouse and change velocity faster in real life with those things), you also have the fact that the game uses a first and third person rig which is merged (same thing like arma), and the fact that the characters tended to start their movement at times with shift-sprinting. That would make 3rd person animations jerky and whatnot, more so than your typical controller demonstration footage. You also have the fact that motion blur is currently broken in the game, so 3rd person assets have it applied completely incorrectly. But from the first person it all animates rather well and is responsive, which is somewhat surprising given how it is actually a linked 3rd person asset.
IMO, give Star Marine a try and tell me what you think of the 3rd person animation in the game in comparison to a game like Battlefield 4.
No, your point does not stand because the point you were trying to make is nonsense. You flippantly dismissed the Mobiglas tech like it was nothing more than some doodad to the exclusion of a properly functioning game. What you apparently fail to appreciate is how the Mobiglas tech has consolidated previously clunky interfaces... I'm sure we all remember the hollow table... and previously external features like the star map along with the other features I won't list again into a single, well designed and easy to use device that will serve as the primary interface to the game world. You make the claim that the focus is on bells and whistles, well the primary user interface is one of the pillars that make up the solid foundation of any game.
For me the problem is so many things want to be realistic but animation integration and blending seems cartoony in the footage. Is some kind of uncanny valley for animations that highlights their problems much more than in less realistic games. That's why I said that they are the worst I've seen, because they are annoying to look at like no other game.
Cabbagehead
Member
They said it was a syncing issue with the animations.
Dictator93
Member
Oh sweet, was that at a time code in the video where I was too busy talking about how much I love you guys and the beer I am drinking? Or was it on Reddit / forums at some point?
I think it was the beer. LOL.
People who post regularly in this thread love to play the victim and then turn absolutely vicious toward the slightest critique. Of course they could just create a community OT if they wanted to be left alone, but that won't get as many referrals for shiny golden models / free Gladius ship.
Your best bet is focusing on people who may not be replying but are still occasionally checking the thread. Helping them see a more holistic view of the current state of the project.
As I mentioned before, the gamescom presentation was messy but it did slightly improve my opinion on the status of the game. It's something that a well managed company could build and iterate on. Whether it gets there or not in time is unclear.
Also, when was the last time anyone asked Chris if the game had taken on external financing or third party investors? Because after they run out of the 160m, that's clearly still an option, but I have 0 faith they would let backers know when it occurs. But being asked point blank might catch them off guard.
I've thought about that since the very first release where many things from targeting pop ups and radar etc had his design opinions/ideas on paper, it was HIS choice to make all this flashy shit that ultimately got culled and keeps getting culled for something that's logical and usable.
I would not be surprised if designers there have the internal thought process of "aw shit not again with his fucking stupid ideas that we have to work on, then start again from scratch when the community whines about how stupid it is and/or we persuade him there's a better alternative."
But they all gotta be "yes people".
They probably go through a ton of chris-ideas until they manage to finesse it into something realistic.
paperboywriter
Member
When is this game coming out?
_/¯UpDownLeftRight
Banned
I'd love the thread to be somewhere that actually promotes more discussion rather than turning into a war every few pages whenever another poster decides to come in, tout everything they say as gospel and ignore any retorts, aka derailing. I couldn't give a shit if more people back it or not, I'd just rather be able to talk about the game without some holier than thou posters actively trying to kill discussion.
Criticism is fine, I could easily write a good few paragraphs of things I'm not satisfied with, I'll bitch about the flight model all day since there's a lot I dislike about it, but let's not pretend we don't also have some people that aren't interested in actual discussion at all and only want reinforcement of their opinions.
Zambayoshi
Member
At the end of the day, a menu is a menu. It's not like you can run around and shoot or fly a ship while your mobiglas is open (correct me if I'm wrong). To say it is a fundamental aspect of the game is stretching it. At most, you get a limited FOV, blurry impression of what is going on around you when you have the thing open. It's very pretty to look at, but is it necessary in the same way that properly functioning physics models are? Not even close. I'd take a functional, albeit clunky, game over a shiny monstrosity any day.
Referral links would be a fast path to a permaban for me, so no, that's not a factor. When reddit started up their referral code randomizer, some people asked about starting up something similar here, but I thought it would still be against the spirit of that conflict of interest rule and didn't bother taking it to the mods for them to make a call. Take a look at the OP and there's no mention that referral codes even exist. I have a grand total of 0 "recruits" (people who bought packages) and 3 "prospects" (registered for free flight/whatever but didn't get a package) via the reddit randomizer. Too bad none of those worked out - I was actually renting that gun type via REC when I played and it would have saved me a bit of REC. Edit: never mind, that was a badger and I was using panthers
That rule actually makes it tricky when it comes to trying to link to community content here now. For example, I linked to the BoredGamer "start here citizen" video because it's well put together. I hadn't been thinking about it at the time, but there is a referral link for him in the video description. There's no relationship there of course, but the fact that it's in there could call things into question, so it's an annoyance.
By the way, on the topic of referrals - I'm not a fan. I said so when it was introduced. I can see why they do it, but it encourages all sorts of lousy behaviour which is a pain since it gets associated with the fanbase in general. Regardless, even if there's negative publicity from it, I'm sure the numbers would show it's worked in their favour overall.
I was curious if anyone ever hit those crazy points targets they posted for some of these rewards. They posted a leaderboard here which has the number of lifetime referrals as of when a contest ended on Aug 8.
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/referral-contest
Anyone who had at least 2942 "referral points" would win a free trip to GamesCom. To qualify for a referral point, someone has to register a new account using your code, then spend at least $40 in packages. That works out to a minimum of $117,680 brought in by the referrer (minimum because there aren't any additional points awarded if the referred person spends more than $40).
No one got the 2942 points. They overestimated how much people would participate. BoredGamer, the youtuber I happened to link in the OP, actually came in at #4, with 1402 referral points. #1 was someone from Test Squadron with 1694. The grand prize was an Idris M, which fortunately for them didn't come with a minimum points requirement, they just had to be first. (ironically, winning that grand prize would have made them ineligible for the trip reward if they had made it to 2942 points anyway, lol)
For regular referral rewards outside of that contest, here's the chart.
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/referral-program
By the way, just in case anyone was thinking of them as ship skins, those gold models are literally just small model ships in a little display case.
The Gladius at 10 is probably the best balanced reward of the bunch and I bet that brought in some good results. A mid-tier fighter with a referral target that probably looks achievable for a decent chunk of their audience.
The 25 and 42 point rewards look great at first, with lots of ships, but there's the catch that they're only in Arena Commander (the dogfighting simulator, not an actual ship to use in the MMO). At 75 points and up, it's back to giving single ships that are usable in the MMO, but that's already a high target. The Javelin at 2017's still a few hundred beyond the top people on that chart.
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The subject of moving to community has come up before and it's an interesting topic. In the end, I'd say it's still here because that's the way the site is organized. Threads for unreleased games are in gaming, then the OTs get moved to community a month or so after release.
I share UpDownLeftRight's viewpoint on my favourite kind of discussion here. The Elite community thread's in a good spot where people talk about control setups and the things they're doing in the game. I don't think that's due to the fact that the thread's in community though - I don't think there's any additional moderation that comes into play just because it's a community thread. The discussion is like that because it's a mature game, it has that content to discuss and there isn't that perception that swaying opinion either way can have some effect on whether or not the game exists - it's already there.
If there was just one thread labelled as the long term "gameplay discussion" thread and there was a mod willing to risk their sanity to babysit it (no one has that kind of time), ruthlessly deleting the opinion war posts trying to sway people either way and just leaving the day to day gameplay/tech/etc talk, you'd still end up with a discussion board that has no place to voice negative opinions about Star Citizen (unless there's an event thread going on), which people would rightly object to. So, where does that go? Spin up a new "Star Citizen war zone" community thread for people to duke it out? Maybe two new positive and negative Star Citizen sentiment OTs for respective echo chambers, along with the normal talk thread for people who don't want to get into that? Maybe four for neutral/pro/con/warzone (lol)? Nah, I don't see that structural approach working. Even if so many threads were allowed, people would just converge on whatever one was most active anyway.
If moved to community, the thread would certainly be less visible, which could diminish the motivation for influencers on both sides and maybe temper it to more regular discussion. On the other hand, it's a troll's paradise here with the way people go off, so it's not like that's less fun just because the thread's on a different tab.
So, it's a bit of a wash. In the end, I don't see it making much difference either way, so might as well stick with convention to keep things from being confusing. Things improve on their own when there's new stuff to do and talk about in game.
Zalusithix
Member
Meanwhile on my end:
Fuck the referral system. Didn't like it back when it was introduced, really didn't like it when the contest was made, and I'll continue to hate it for as long as it exists in a form where all rewards are not purely cosmetic in nature. Even then I'd never use it myself.
Oh, and I still have the highest post count in this thread by a large margin despite not posting in it lately (for obvious reasons). So much for the regulars wanting referrals (here or elsewhere). Normally I'd just ignore such a stupid argument, but it gave me an excuse to voice my distaste for the referral system again, so whatever lol.
Cabbagehead
Member
Meanwhile on my end:
Fuck the referral system. Didn't like it back when it was introduced, really didn't like it when the contest was made, and I'll continue to hate it for as long as it exists in a form where all rewards are not purely cosmetic in nature. Even then I'd never use it myself.
Oh, and I still have the highest post count in this thread by a large margin despite not posting in it lately (for obvious reasons). So much for the regulars wanting referrals (here or elsewhere). Normally I'd just ignore such a stupid argument, but it gave me an excuse to voice my distaste for the referral system again, so whatever lol.
lol
Starbuck2907
Member
Still happy with the progress being made. Good stuff.
Spuck-uk
Banned
Someone said they didn't do bullshots, and yet, here they are, doing bullshots.
Clearly unreasonable criticism on my behalf.
Spuck-uk
Banned
What's your relevant game development experience? Since you claim they don't know anything about it.
Synching the netcode is hard because they have such a stupid amount of network traffic from pointless features like 'Face over IP' being pushed in before they can even get the core gameplay stable over a 3 person LAN.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/6we9ua/star_citizen_gamescom_2017_presentation_no_dialog/dm7i1di/ FFind out what other game devs think here. It's telling (unless you're one of the true believers who accepts no criticism of the game.)
Good thread. That edit of the video is handy since people were asking for a short version.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gb702V4_m4c&feature=youtu.be
45 minutes with the buggy parts and scripted banter edited out.
The slow frame rate in multiplayer isn't from face over IP since that's not in yet, but it's something similar - lack of culling for physics updates contributes to it, for example.
FieryBalrog
Member
Speaking as an outsider who has no dog in the race for this game, you honestly sound delusional.
Pretty much everything I've seen of this game is "cool tech demo" even after 5 years
UpDownLeftRight
Banned
Ship trailers have been this way since forever. Nothing has changed so I don't really get the complaint. Not to mention that the criticism is that they made a pre rendered trailer like everyone else in the industry.
FieryBalrog
Member
The criticism is that after 5 years they are constantly hyping up tech demo features to get more money, and are nowhere even close to a workable game loop.
On top of which this isn't Chris Roberts first time with a project where he fucks it up with feature creep and endless delays, so there's that too. (That would be Freelancer, FYI). The guy is fucking awful at project management. He's really good at taking money from a certain kinda person, though!
FieryBalrog
Member
Bullseye.
Alter_Fridge
Member
Scope Creep: The Game
Never change Chris
Never change Chris
UpDownLeftRight
Banned
Really? Didn't seem to be the focus of that post to me. It seemed more to be about there being pre-rendered trailers.
frontieruk
Member
Strange as I read it as more about shiny ship target renders as he was commenting about someone saying CIG don't do bullshots.
I didn't watch the whole video but I did notice that compared to other companies that released pre-rendered footage CIG didn't put a disclaimer like 'not ingame footage' or 'in engine footage' which seems obvious to us, but may not be to others who aren't as deeply vested in to gaming culture.
Cabbagehead
Member
Because they aren't....and they have put those disclaimers on videos. Plus they've stated to the backing community that all trailers are done in-engine. It's a prerequisite at this point to understand that.
UpDownLeftRight
Banned
Pre rendered trailers aren't really the same thing as bullshots though. Like if the in game stuff shown was actually running at settings that are unattainable perhaps, but a bullshot as I've always understood is an in game screenshot doctored to look better than it actually can in the final product, as Ubisoft used to love doing some years back. The practice seems dead at this point though.
Suppose they could add the disclaimer just for clarity but it's a trailer to sell ships to backers rather than a trailer of the game itself. It could be misread I guess but it's always felt pretty clear that it's not a trailer for the game due to the way they're done.
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