On the SP4, going from 8-16GB ram and 256-512GB SSD is $600 wih the same CPU. I doubt they'd have engineers such a thin tablet chassis to handle quad core yet all other models (and the thicker SP4) get dual core. Happy to be proven wrong, but MS are charging insane amounts for ram and SSD upgrades on both SP and SB
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Surface Book Is Microsoft's Glorious New Laptop - twice as fast as macbook pro
- Thread starter mocoworm
- Start date
On the SP4, going from 8-16GB ram and 256-512GB SSD is $600 wih the same CPU. I doubt they'd have engineers such a thin tablet chassis to handle quad core yet all other models (and the thicker SP4) get dual core. Happy to be proven wrong, but MS are charging insane amounts for ram and SSD upgrades on both SP and SB
The top of the line models are for people who want the best and have money to burn. That's why they charge so much.
It's always been this way from the Surface Pro 2 8GB/512 GB which was $500 more expensive than the Surface Pro 2 8GB/256 GB, and the only difference was 256 GB of SSD.
The sweet spot is always a notch or two down from the top model.
The real sweet spot would be an i5/8GB/128 IMO, but they don't make one..
A 600$ ultrabook would run circles around those apps. Not sure where the extra 1000-2000$ goes, to be honest.
No, he said he had to buy (as in non-free) a third party tool. I pointed out that there are free tools.
There is no such a thing as a $600 ultrabook.
Really?
Anyhow, this thing sure is pretty. Now to see how it does in gaming, this could be the one I get to play Pillars of Eternity and all those other games I missed on PC.
It really doesn't sound like you've got experience with FL Studio. Or maybe you've found one hell of a $600 ultrabook.
If you provide a specific $600 ultrabook we can tell you were those "extra 1000-2000$ goes" in the Surface Book.
If you want a PC for gaming Windows is pretty much a necessity, but it's hardly unthinkable that some people like the competition better. I mean, I prefer both OSX and Ubuntu with Gnome Shell better than Windows 8 and over.
Where the hell are you going to find a $600 ultrabook, let alone one that could multitask FL freaking Studio?
Uhhh a $600 ulttabook (or notebook, or a custom PC at that price) will be able to load FL Studio, I'll give you that.
The second you start to do anything of value, it will murder the CPU on the spot
Solid device. Personally I would pick Surface Book due to higher resolution, PCIe SSD instead of SATA and 6th Gen Intel.
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
Ms had a chance to make a difference with a productivity-minded, sanely-priced device. Instead SB looks like the 'apple-me-too' corporate response. I'm deeply unimpressed.
ed: s/SP4/SB
Yeah, there are already really good Windows laptops at all price points.
The more I think about it the more I see this as more of a marketing move for the MS/Windows brand than as a device that they expect to sell very well. And in that function, given the reporting about it so far, it seems to be succeeding.
The more I think about it the more I see this as more of a marketing move for the MS/Windows brand than as a device that they expect to sell very well. And in that function, given the reporting about it so far, it seems to be succeeding.
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
Windows might have that market, but ms' hw does not. In this regard SB was a spectacular non-entry into that market. Heck, I'd rather buy a MB and run bootcamp, while pocketing the price difference.
ed: s/SP4/SB
Its overpriced, and its supposed to be. They are in a no need to sell millions of these. because they have their OEM to do just that job. They are going after the MacBook Pro. Pricing it higher than that, REALLY REALLY made me happy. It showed MS is confident with their device. And they are leading the innovation on this front.
if you ask MS employee, even they will tell you its pricy, its meant to be pricy. But its very very well engineered device and show cases company's potential. Boy the future of MS hardware looks good.
Pocket the difference?
Macbook Air 13" starting price $999 + Windows disc for bootcamp $1098.99
SP4 entry level core m processor $899
-$199 difference. You lose $199 by going with MB + Bootcamp
OR
Macbook Air 13" i5 256GB 4GB Ram + Windows 8.1 for bootcamp $1298.99
SP4 i5 256GB 8GB RAM $1,299.00
$.01 difference you save $.01 and lose 4GB of ram by going with MB + Bootcamp
what part was confusing?
Microsoft has been lagging behind for years. Just just look at their Surface Pro 1 presentation. You will see how nervous everyone presenting were. It was just a shitty presentation.
Fast forward 3 years from then, look at their Tuesday presentation. Surface Pro which all OEM thought was shit, and made fun of. Is now being copied, Apple is chasing that market too with their iPad Pro.
You have a more confident Microsoft now. They have announced a more innovating laptop. They have priced it higher than MacBook pro. Because it simple has better hardware, better screen and more versatile form factor.
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
I wasn't going for the best possible windows ultrabook choice, just making an MB parallel, since the SB is such an 'MB killer'.
ed: s/SP4/SB in the above posts, my typo.
Yes, these were my precise thoughts.
What's so difficult to understand that a company has priced one of its premium devices at a higher than expected price point?
I don't think this is aimed at the masses, at least not at this stage of its life cycle.
LordOfChaos
Member
15W ULV i7s are all dual core. See the MBA and every ultrabook in the last few years. The only hope for it being a quad would be the 25W Skylake part, but 1) That would get rather toasty and 2) Anandtech cited all 15W parts for the Surface Book.
a very cute dog
Member
Laptop looks very nice, but man, that Windows 10 login splash screen looks tacky.
Obviously they can price it however they like, it's their prerogative, but why any consumer would be pleased about higher prices I do not know.
There's a difference between being pleased at the price and understanding why it's set as it is.
Yeh, you can have cheaper, equal poerforming laptops that look almost as good. You pay the premium price for build quality and branding. It's tempting for me because of those two reasons, and the above.
Me too. I want to try one out before buying but I expect the build quality to be top class.
Did my best to compile a breakdown of the Macbook Pro High and Low end vs the Surface Book high and low end.
Disclaimer: If I have missed something or got something wrong just straight up tell me I'm not looking to argue. I've left out the "twice as powerful" in the comparisons as I have no idea what Macbook it is being compared to vs what Surface. It will probably be possible to get OSX running on these with a Hackintosh setup but it's far from official and not something just anyone could easily do. Price comparison is my attempt to compare it with even specs across the board
PRICING
Macbook Pro 13"
Entry: i5/128GB/8GB
$1299
Surface Book
Entry i5/128GB/8GB
$1499
Without bootcamp (aka windows install disc) Pro is $200 cheaper
With bootcamp Pro is $100 cheaper
_________________________________
Macbook Pro 15" (no i7 or DGPU available on 13" model)
Specs i7/256GB/16GB DGPU
$2499
Surface Book
Specs i7/512GB/16GB DGPU
$2699
Without bootcamp (aka windows install disc) Pro is $200 cheaper
With bootcamp Pro is $100 cheaper
So $200 across the board
ADVANTAGES
15" Macbook Advantages
-Possible to OSX as well as Windows
-Twice the VRAM on the DGPU models
-Quad Core vs Dual Core i7 models (not sure of raw benches)
-Cheaper
-More Ports (2 USB 3.0 + mini display port vs 2 USB 3.0 + 2 thunderbolt + HDMI)
13" Advantages
-Possible to OSX as well as Windows
-Cheaper
-More Ports (2 USB 3.0 + mini display port vs 2 USB 3.0 + 2 thunderbolt + HDMI)
Surface Book Advantages (vs 13")
-2 Hours more of battery life (10 vs 12 on official spec sheets. Larger lead if macbook is running windows)
-Doubles as a tablet
-Higher resolution screen
-Touch Screen
-Surface Pen input
-Dual Cameras (5mp front 8mp back)
-Dual Microphones
Surface Book Advantages (vs 15")
-3 Hours more of battery life (9 vs 12 on official spec sheets. Larger lead if macbook is running windows)
-Doubles as a tablet
-Higher resolution screen
-Touch Screen
-Surface Pen input
-Dual Cameras (5mp front 8mp back)
-Dual Microphones
Disclaimer: If I have missed something or got something wrong just straight up tell me I'm not looking to argue. I've left out the "twice as powerful" in the comparisons as I have no idea what Macbook it is being compared to vs what Surface. It will probably be possible to get OSX running on these with a Hackintosh setup but it's far from official and not something just anyone could easily do. Price comparison is my attempt to compare it with even specs across the board
PRICING
Macbook Pro 13"
Entry: i5/128GB/8GB
$1299
Surface Book
Entry i5/128GB/8GB
$1499
Without bootcamp (aka windows install disc) Pro is $200 cheaper
With bootcamp Pro is $100 cheaper
_________________________________
Macbook Pro 15" (no i7 or DGPU available on 13" model)
Specs i7/256GB/16GB DGPU
$2499
Surface Book
Specs i7/512GB/16GB DGPU
$2699
Without bootcamp (aka windows install disc) Pro is $200 cheaper
With bootcamp Pro is $100 cheaper
So $200 across the board
ADVANTAGES
15" Macbook Advantages
-Possible to OSX as well as Windows
-Twice the VRAM on the DGPU models
-Quad Core vs Dual Core i7 models (not sure of raw benches)
-Cheaper
-More Ports (2 USB 3.0 + mini display port vs 2 USB 3.0 + 2 thunderbolt + HDMI)
13" Advantages
-Possible to OSX as well as Windows
-Cheaper
-More Ports (2 USB 3.0 + mini display port vs 2 USB 3.0 + 2 thunderbolt + HDMI)
Surface Book Advantages (vs 13")
-2 Hours more of battery life (10 vs 12 on official spec sheets. Larger lead if macbook is running windows)
-Doubles as a tablet
-Higher resolution screen
-Touch Screen
-Surface Pen input
-Dual Cameras (5mp front 8mp back)
-Dual Microphones
Surface Book Advantages (vs 15")
-3 Hours more of battery life (9 vs 12 on official spec sheets. Larger lead if macbook is running windows)
-Doubles as a tablet
-Higher resolution screen
-Touch Screen
-Surface Pen input
-Dual Cameras (5mp front 8mp back)
-Dual Microphones
Just like your $600 ultrabook comment lol.
I want to point out that you are using the OS X battery life numbers for the Macbooks. If the comparison is supposed to treat the Macbooks as a Windows laptop alternative, then the battery life is worse and the Surface Book has a significantly larger lead in that department.
Omnistalgic
Member
I get what's he saying, I do not agree about the innovating thing, but he's basically saying they are playing Apple's game, but offering better tech inside for a high value. It is a premium device, and they are charging a lot for it, this gives Apple's some competition since the other hardware makers are usually cheaper. It also may force Apple to step up there game, and put more tech inside the premium devices they offer.
Anyone have a Surface 3 and used it to replace an Ipad. I'm thinking for getting one for just that reason and would like impressions over long-term use.
I did... And I wouldn't look back...
The lack of mobile apps is easily offset by the availability of full fledged Windows application. Dollar for dollar and pound for pound it's a no-brainier.
Alright thanks
An advantage for Surface Book could also be that it got both a 5MP front camera and a 8MP rear camera.
and dual microphones, front and rear facing.
Hatty
Member
I used a pro 3 to replace an iPad and it didn't really work out
Maybe it's gotten better in the past year but the tablet apps just weren't there for me. Nothing as good as tweetbot, reeder, or comiczeal which are some of the apps I use the most
Oh I do agree, unless you specifically want a laptop that has a touch screen with stylus support, there are much better products for your money. But the intention of Surface Book isn't to conquer the mass market, it's to make people drool over a Windows laptop even if they can't afford it/don't really need it.
As an Ipad replacement? Idk about the Surface 3 but the Pro 3 is much to large and heavy to be used as an ipad replacement it's just not something I would recommend trying to hold for any extended period of time with one hand.
The Surface 3 is .4 pounds lighter but I can't see that being a huge difference when the ipad .3 lbs lighter than even that (.76 lbs lighter than the pro 3). You can certainly try though. Let me know how it goes if it is light enough I might get one.
Added
"Much too large and heavy"
iPad 1: 1.5lbs
iPad 2: 1.325lbs
iPad 3: 1.44lbs
iPad 4: 1.44lbs
iPad Air: 1lb
iPad Air 2: 0.96lbs
I guess the iPad was much too heavy to use until the Air??
All of those are lighter and smaller than the Pro 3.
iPad Air or mini is eqsy to hold one hand while browsing and all the apps are touch optimised because of course they are. Surface pro 3 is more a 'put in your lap' device if you're just browsing etc - both for weight and size. And not many apps are touch optimised.
For casual browsing I think I'd still want an iPad. Surface pro is ok for maybe browsing the web while also doing other things - trying to use it like a big iPad isn't a good use for it. Might be better off looking at an iPad pro for that.
I'm wondering whether something like an iPhone 6+ could be big enough for general browsing, and then replace my iPad with the SP4.
For casual browsing I think I'd still want an iPad. Surface pro is ok for maybe browsing the web while also doing other things - trying to use it like a big iPad isn't a good use for it. Might be better off looking at an iPad pro for that.
I'm wondering whether something like an iPhone 6+ could be big enough for general browsing, and then replace my iPad with the SP4.
Toadthemushroom
Member
Hm, the "twice as fast as MacBook Pro" quote made me believe they were using 28W laptop Skylake parts like Apple does in its MacBook Pro:
That's not the case, as the SurfaceBook uses a 15W ULV Core i5 6200U, which makes sense because most of its internals are in the "lid" portion.
Microsoft have probably cherry-picked a graphics benchmark. It's also important to note that the MacBook Pro hasn't had its Skylake refresh yet, either, so it's probably not the most flattering comparison, though that Maxwell GPU in the high end model will indeed outperform Skylake Iris, and of course outperforms Broadwell Iris in the current MacBook Pro.
I have a Surface Pro 2, and I'm looking forward to replacing it with something like a retina MacBook Pro or a SurfaceBook, but I'll probably lean towards the former if the latter has throttling issues.
Was pretty disappointed with Microsoft's presentation in a way. There was a lot of empty hyperbole and misleading figures (the SurfaceBook's quoted weight statistic is another one), which are easy quotes for press articles, and something about it all doesn't sit right with me.
That's not the case, as the SurfaceBook uses a 15W ULV Core i5 6200U, which makes sense because most of its internals are in the "lid" portion.
Microsoft have probably cherry-picked a graphics benchmark. It's also important to note that the MacBook Pro hasn't had its Skylake refresh yet, either, so it's probably not the most flattering comparison, though that Maxwell GPU in the high end model will indeed outperform Skylake Iris, and of course outperforms Broadwell Iris in the current MacBook Pro.
I have a Surface Pro 2, and I'm looking forward to replacing it with something like a retina MacBook Pro or a SurfaceBook, but I'll probably lean towards the former if the latter has throttling issues.
Was pretty disappointed with Microsoft's presentation in a way. There was a lot of empty hyperbole and misleading figures (the SurfaceBook's quoted weight statistic is another one), which are easy quotes for press articles, and something about it all doesn't sit right with me.