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[mrklaw]

the pro 4 is questionable, the surface book i doubt will have this problem

I don't think it is that straightforward

Pro 4 has new, beefed up cooling. Fan may be similar (only so much you can do at that size) but it has a much larger heatsink. For the core m should be no problem - 4.5W chip in a chassis dsigned for a 15W. It's lighter so they may have even removed the fan. i5 probably OK as the TDP is the same as last gen but the cooling is improved. I7 more tricky. Although it it still 15W, they've put a larger GPU in there only previously in the 28W models, along wits edram. If you're playing a game pushing the CPU + GPU, I then there may still be a risk of throttling, although the larger heatsink may delay that for a while, but you'll get soak eventually if the fan can't dissipate it.

The surface book screen is the weak link. The GPU should be ok because it is in the base and can be separately cooled. So let's assume/hope no throttling there. But the screen is thinner than the SP4 but has a similar 15W CPU. So it may have less efficient cooling than SP4. Might be fine but I wouldn't assume it'll be better just because the overall form factor is larger

 

[R00bot]

Looks great. Hoping to get something like this after my current Macbook Air lives its life to the fullest.

 

[JNT]

Well, the last time I tried OSX you couldn't even adjust mouse acceleration without buying a third party tool.

There are free tools to adjust mouse acceleration. You can also adjust it from the terminal.

 

[Renekton]

I don't think it is that straightforward

i5 probably OK as the TDP is the same as last gen but the cooling is improved. I7 more tricky. Although it it still 15W, they've put a larger GPU in there only previously in the 28W models, along wits edram. If you're playing a game pushing the CPU + GPU, I then there may still be a risk of throttling, although the larger heatsink may delay that for a while, but you'll get soak eventually if the fan can't dissipate it.

I7 and I5 Skylakes can have the same HD graphics model #, and the CPU parts have the same rated TDP. Correct me if wrong.

 

[szaromir]

Macbooks also throttle. This is way to thin chassis to support Core i7 and GeForce GPU at full load without dropping their clocks.

Throttling = dropping clockrates

 

[Turin Turambar]

There are free tools to adjust mouse acceleration. You can also adjust it from the terminal.

That's what he said.

 

[derFeef]

Do we have exact specs yet? GPU, SSD... ?

 

[mrklaw]

I7 and I5 Skylakes can have the same HD graphics model #, and the CPU parts have the same rated TDP. Correct me if wrong.

They can, but for the surface pro 4 they don't - MS chose different models. i5 has standard HD520 graphics, and the i7 has iris graphics (HD540 I think) with twice the number of graphics units (EUs) - 48 vs 24, and 64mb edram.

Overall TDP is the same, yes, but the i7 will definitely be hotter if both cou and GPU are used at the same time. Either that means the i5 will run cool (which is good), or potentially the i7 won't be able the GPU at full speed if the CPU is also fully loaded. Or it'll simoly hit peak 15W quickly and stress the SP4 cooling. It might be able to handle it, I'm just raising a note of caution - especially after the throttling issues of the SP4 and also anandtech's article looking at how even core m chips can match i5 performance if the manufacturer doesn't design the system well enough around the thermal needs of the CPU.

 

[LukasTaves]

You should probably wait till the device is out and tested before saying this. The pro 2 destroys the pro 3 in gaming because the 3 overheats and throttles itself to a 386/dx2. I'm not convinced that Microsoft will address this with the pro 4 when they never fixed the 3.

They addressed it on the pro 4 with liquid cooling.

They said the pro 4 runs cooler than any other surface pro.

I don't remember from the keynote, but I think the book has liquid cooling as well.

Edit, and with liquid cooling they can have two condensing points for the liquid. The fan, and a very ample heat sink that sits close to the back.

 

[Doffen]

Do we have exact specs yet? GPU, SSD... ?

I believe the SSD is PCIe.

 

[LilJoka]

New Dell XPS or this?

 

[OEM]

New Dell XPS or this?

If you want touch screen and use it as a tablet, nothing come close to this. If you only going to use it as a laptop, it will not be worth the amount for you.

 

[LilJoka]

If you want touch screen and use it as a tablet, nothing come close to this. If you only going to use it as a laptop, it will not be worth the amount for you.

Yeah dont ever see myself using the pen, sometimes i use ultrabook touch screens to scroll, but thats about it. Is there a difference in screen/panel (eg IPS/LED) technology between them?

 

[Random_Guy]

How much of a performance advantage does the i7 have over i5 for gaming in the book?

The jump to i7 is quite expensive and I'm wondering if it's worth it.

 

[mrklaw]

How much of a performance advantage does the i7 have over i5 for gaming in the book?

The jump to i7 is quite expensive and I'm wondering if it's worth it.

Not huge, assuming the GPU in each is the same. Slightly higher base and turbo clock and a bit more cache.mi think someone said it was the i7-6560u in the surface book? Don't know what i5 they'll use

 

[LilJoka]

I would say no point in going for the i7.

 

[MvmntInGrn]

Looks nice. I've never been into full size tablets so the laptop design is a big plus. Hope we hear good things about durability, the detaching keyboard makes me worry.

My MBP is doing what I need right now and I like OSX for my schoolwork (managing windows is easier) but this has my attention for when I next need a laptop.

 

[thequickandthedead]

How does the 960m compare to a 750ti? Curious to see if it could match ps4 performance.

 

[papo]

Windows is a bad thing to have? Why?

 

[0.1.1.2.3.5.8.13.21.34.55]

Windows is a bad thing to have? Why?

didn't you get the memo?

Spoiler

"I'm better at life stuff"

lol

 

[fwpx]

I couldn't decide between the Surface Book and the MBP. Both 13", both base model 128gb ssd. I went with the MBP because I couldn't justify the 300 additional dollars for some minor speed increases.

 

[FerDS]

That's what he said.

No. You don't buy free stuff

 

[DagnastyEp]

the pro 4 is questionable, the surface book i doubt will have this problem

Slightly OT, as this is more in reference to the Surface Pro 4, but, here's how the cooling works:

Here's an interpretation of how it works from an engineer:

The SP3 had all the heat concentrated in one spot (that hot spot in the corner). The SP4 actually boils/evaporates liquid inside a metal tube that touches the processor, and that vapor travels to two places inside the SP4 to condense back into a liquid: one to the fan, and the other under where the kickstand normally rests. The one under the kickstand allows the fan to rarely run, unless under extremely demanding tasks. So for web browsing, and normal day-to-day activities, you'll no longer have the fan run as you did in the Surface Pro 3. And when the surface is under pressure with the fan running, the heat will be more evenly distributed - not all concentrated in a big hot spot - making the SP4 feel a bit cooler

I'm not sure if the SB has the same or similar cooling setup, though I wouldn't be surprised if it did.

Source: http://www.windowscentral.com/heres...ll-keep-cool-its-hybrid-liquid-cooling-system

 

[Lazaro]

didn't you get the memo?

Spoiler

"I'm better at life stuff"

lol

I remember when these gifs were valid. But nowadays a lot game devs port their games on Mac as well as the Mac App store with Gamecenter support. SEGA even released "Sega Superstars Tennis" exclusively to Mac on the Mac app store.

Spoiler

Shame Apple dropped Vulkan API support for their own API though.

 

[Hatty]

Windows is a bad thing to have? Why?

Opinions

 

[baconcow]

Not huge, assuming the GPU in each is the same. Slightly higher base and turbo clock and a bit more cache.mi think someone said it was the i7-6560u in the surface book? Don't know what i5 they'll use

I am not sure what the GPU is in the Surface Book, but if it is the same as the Surface Pro 4, then you are looking at an i5 with Intel HD Graphics 520 and i7 with Intel Iris Graphics 540. While I have not found any real benchmarks, notebookcheck says the following:

[The HD Graphics 520 on Core i7-6600U] "should perform similar to a dedicated GeForce 820m and will handle modern games (as of 2015) in low settings."

[The Iris Graphics 540 on Core i7-6650U] "should be slightly ahead of a dedicated GeForce 920m and will handle modern games (as of 2015) in low or medium settings."

Since their comparison for the 520 uses an i7, it can likely be assumed the performance will not be any better than the GeForce 820m. One significant difference I can see is that the 520 has 24 unified pipelines and the 540 has 48 unified pipelines and 64MB of dedicated eDRAM memory (the 520 has no eDRAM memory).

 

[LordOfChaos]

Slightly OT, as this is more in reference to the Surface Pro 4, but, here's how the cooling works:


Here's an interpretation of how it works from an engineer:


I'm not sure if the SB has the same or similar cooling setup, though I wouldn't be surprised if it did.

Source: http://www.windowscentral.com/heres...ll-keep-cool-its-hybrid-liquid-cooling-system

Yeah, that's what their "Hybrid cooling" was in reference to, partly passive like most tablets using the case for thermal spreading (though most tablets don't have a heatpipe and large copper block), partly active. They say it allows the fan to stay off during most tasks and 60% of the heat goes to the big copper block, 40% to the heatsink and fan.

 

[neogaffer1]

I remember when these gifs were valid. But nowadays a lot game devs port their games on Mac as well as the Mac App store with Gamecenter support. SEGA even released "Sega Superstars Tennis" exclusively to Mac on the Mac app store.

Spoiler

Shame Apple dropped Vulkan API support for their own API though.

a very huge chunk of games still don't get mac versions

 

[LordOfChaos]

I remember when these gifs were valid. But nowadays a lot game devs port their games on Mac as well as the Mac App store with Gamecenter support. SEGA even released "Sega Superstars Tennis" exclusively to Mac on the Mac app store.

Spoiler

Shame Apple dropped Vulkan API support for their own API though.

Wait, when did they "drop" Vulkan? They never said they would adopt it in the first place, but they are on it's development board so some of us hoped they would. Did they say they were dropping it, or is that speculation because of Metal?

I'd still like them to do both, unlikely as it is. Metal is good for the OS and iOS ports. But Vulkan would be huge for all three big computer OS's supporting the same low level API.

By the way, the HD Graphics 530 seems as fast as the Iris 6100 of the last gen, not sure where the 520 and 540 would be

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Mobile-Graphics-Cards-Benchmark-List.844.0.html

 

[Maedhros]

-Windows

Wtf are you even talking about? Gaming on anything else is shitty and limited as fuck and always will be.

 

[neogaffer1]

Wait, when did they "drop" Vulkan? They never said they would adopt it in the first place, but they are on it's development board so some of us hoped they would. Did they say they were dropping it, or is that speculation because of Metal?

I'd still like them to do both, unlikely as it is. Metal is good for the OS and iOS ports. But Vulkan would be huge for all three big computer OS's supporting the same low level API.

By the way, the HD Graphics 530 seems as fast as the Iris 6100 of the last gen, not sure where the 520 and 540 would be

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Mobile-Graphics-Cards-Benchmark-List.844.0.html

they left the development board iirc

 

[LordOfChaos]

they left the development board iirc

Ah, crap.

 

[dampflokfreund]

1 GB VRAM is so 2011.... Why only 1 GB? It makes no sense.

 

[neogaffer1]

1 GB VRAM is so 2011.... Why only 1 GB? It makes no sense.

cuz it's meant for video editing and the like rather than gaming.

though if that xbox team driver rumor is true maybe we'll see some split memory setup like the xb1 manages esram ¯\_(&#12484_/¯

Spoiler

probably hoping for too much for that to happen tho

 

[dpatel304]

Awesome laptop. Pity it's way out of my price range, because I'm in the market for a new laptop at the moment.

 

[myca77]

Does look like a very nice laptop/tablet thingie. Pretty nice industrial design too, which I haven't ever really seen as one of Microsofts strengths.*

I don't get where the "twice as fast as macbook pro" comes from though, there's no way the top spec machine could be 2X as powerful as a top spec 15" MBP with a quad core i7. Granted I'm sure the higher end models will have better GPUs in comparison to the the MBP, but that's more because Apple have always been cheapskates when it comes to putting decent high end GPUs in their computers.

Some of those wired comparisons are wrong too, who has the time these days to do five minutes of research?

*The Zune HD did look pretty nice, but was too little too late I guess.

 

[neogaffer1]

Does look like a very nice laptop/tablet thingie. Pretty nice industrial design too, which I haven't ever really seen as one of Microsofts strengths.*

I don't get where the "twice as fast as macbook pro" comes from though, there's no way the top spec machine could be 2X as powerful as a top spec 15" MBP with a quad core i7. Granted I'm sure the higher end models will have better GPUs in comparison to the the MBP, but that's more because Apple have always been cheapskates when it comes to putting decent high end GPUs in their computers.

Some of those wired comparisons are wrong too, who has the time these days to do five minutes of research?

*The Zune HD did look pretty nice, but was too little too late I guess.

Theyre not comparing to a top of the line macbook.

 

[Hari Seldon]

Looks great for portable applications but a 13" screen is just too damn small for anything I'd use this for.

 

[mrklaw]

Theyre not comparing to a top of the line macbook.

It's like intel's skylake CPU launch in September. "5x faster than your old laptop*"


*from four years ago.

 

[myca77]

Theyre not comparing to a top of the line macbook.

Well considering the top spec Surface book cost over twice as much as the lower spec MBP you'd expect it to be more powerful. I guess I just find the statement extremely vague, slightly idiotic and unnecessary. It's like saying the Xbox One is ten times as powerful as the playstation*

*

Spoiler

PS2

 

[decoyplatypus]

I'm going to have to think about this. I am due for a laptop upgrade soon, and I do a majority of my gaming on a laptop these days.

 

[LordOfChaos]

1 GB VRAM is so 2011.... Why only 1 GB? It makes no sense.

Power management in the form factor I'm guessing. GDDR5 is pretty power hungry.

 

[Doffen]

For those that are curious about what this extra GPU adds to the setup, Microsoft tells me that it is a custom NVIDIA GPU designed specifically for Surface Book and is based on the Maxwell architecture. The chip has 1GB GDDR5 memory which should be enough for most activities but for those looking to do serious gaming on this machine, this chip may not offer everything you need. Still, it’s important to wait for the benchmarks to come out before definitively deciding what this GPU can and can’t handle.

Thurrott.com

 

[neogaffer1]

Thurrott.com

wellthereitis.jpg

 

[0.1.1.2.3.5.8.13.21.34.55]

Looks great for portable applications but a 13" screen is just too damn small for anything I'd use this for.

15" would certainly be the sweet spot IMO. Would also give them a bit more room (width) to beef the specs up as well.

 

[K.Jack]

How does the 960m compare to a 750ti? Curious to see if it could match ps4 performance.

750 Ti clocks = 1020 core / 1350 mem

960M clocks = 1029 core / 1250 mem

Same shaders, TMUs, ROPs, and almost everything else

I still doubt it's a 960M though. Won't be shocked to see a 64-bit card with GDDR5.

 

[jax]

15" would certainly be the sweet spot IMO. Would also give them a bit more room (width) to beef the specs up as well.

A 15 inch tablet would be ridiculous

 

[x3sphere]

15" would certainly be the sweet spot IMO. Would also give them a bit more room (width) to beef the specs up as well.

As an option, maybe... but I find 13" is the sweet spot for me. 15" starts to feel way less portable.

 

[bomblord1]

As an option, maybe... but I find 13" is the sweet spot for me. 15" starts to feel way less portable.

A 15" tablet would be insane the Surface Pro 3 is already on the verge of being too big to hold like a normal tablet.

 

[GSG Flash]

Windows is a bad thing to have? Why?

It's not, it's just cool to hate on for some reason. I have a Mac at home, I actually really like OSX but I prefer Windows 10.