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Surface Book Is Microsoft's Glorious New Laptop - twice as fast as macbook pro

S

SOLDIER

Member
I've largely stuck to the iPad as my go-to portable computer, but lately I've been kind of frustrated by its slow performance (I'm on iPad 4).

I've had a lot of people insist that the Surface Pro is the superior tablet, so I wanted to know about this new Surface Book as a possible replacement. What are the advantages/disadvantages compared to the iPad? Do any of the apps I own on iOS transfer over? Is the tablet on its own just as light and with equivalent or better battery life?
 
M

Mrbob

Member
You aren't going to be able to transfer any of your ios apps over. In fact, the app situation on windows 10 really isn't that good. Do you want a portable windows machine? Then that is the reason to go with a surface pro or surface book.

For productivity the Surface Pro line is the best hybrid device. If you want a purely entertainment device then I would probably stick with your ipad.

There is some information good information on the SP4 and SB here:

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2989...-surface-pro-4-chips-and-why-they-matter.html

Battery life on the SP4 is about 9 hours. The battery life on the Surface Book is split between the tablet and dock, with most of the life in the dock. 3 hours on the tablet and 9 hours on the dock. The surface book is designed for those who want a laptop and occasionally will use it as a tablet. SP4 weight is 1.7 pounds, and the SB weight is 1.6 for the tablet and 1.57 for the dock. Light for an ultrabook but you aren't getting sub 1 like you do with an Ipad Air. The trade off is you get to use full blown windows on the device.
 
S

SOLDIER

Member
Well, are the compatible programs scaled for tablet mode like an iPad app? Like would it display browsers and programs in mobile mode, depending on whether I held the screen vertically or horizontally?
 
M

mrklaw

MrArseFace
Mrbob said:
Heads up, if you are still in school you can get an education discount of 10% from the MS education store. Just ordered my Surface Book online. You can also use the discount on a Surface Pro 4 and Type Cover if you want to get that instead.
Click to expand...

Is that university or any level of school? And can I abus-I mean take advantage of that as a parent with kids at school?
 
M

mrklaw

MrArseFace
SOLDIER said:
I've largely stuck to the iPad as my go-to portable computer, but lately I've been kind of frustrated by its slow performance (I'm on iPad 4).

I've had a lot of people insist that the Surface Pro is the superior tablet, so I wanted to know about this new Surface Book as a possible replacement. What are the advantages/disadvantages compared to the iPad? Do any of the apps I own on iOS transfer over? Is the tablet on its own just as light and with equivalent or better battery life?
Click to expand...

Worth

Also if you don't get any of those, the iPad Air 2 is a great iPad and super fast - and the 2GB ram makes a big difference for things like safari.
 
M

mrklaw

MrArseFace
SOLDIER said:
Well, are the compatible programs scaled for tablet mode like an iPad app? Like would it display browsers and programs in mobile mode, depending on whether I held the screen vertically or horizontally?
Click to expand...

It's literally a full Windows laptop. All Windows 10 machines have a 'tablet' mode, even if they aren't tablets. Basically that forces all apps into full screen mode, compared to normal Windows where you can have multiple window arranged all over your desktop. You can still flip between them using the task switcher of course - it's really just to give each app as much space as possible which you'd want on a smaller tablet.

The only other main difference I can think of is that it'll also pop up an on-screen keyboard when you' expectations disconnected the type cover and need to enter text.
 
B

BioFan

Member
Mrbob said:
Battery life on the SP4 is about 9 hours. The battery life on the Surface Book is split between the tablet and dock, with most of the life in the dock. 3 hours on the tablet and 9 hours on the dock. The surface book is designed for those who want a laptop and occasionally will use it as a tablet.
Click to expand...
Learning from my behavior with the SP3, I think MS made the right decision releasing the SB.
Im a 3D Artist and have the SP3. It's an awesome device and is sufficient for my daily use. I only model low poly stuff, so the SP3 is great!
I find using the SP3 like a laptop more than a tablet. And I need the pen to draw my textures. So the SB line is def something I am really interested going fwd.
I love my SP3 and prob not going to upgrade it anytime soon since I just got it a month ago. But awesome job MS!
 
G

Gattsu25

Banned
I was planning on saving up for a iPad Pro 128GB unit as a 2016 "Treat Yourself" buy... but I'm pretty sure that's now going to be the Surface Book.

This will also allow me to retire my standalone Wacom, hopefully. Gonna have to save up a bit more.
 
W

Widge

Member
I've been after something that will do Ableton & light gaming on the go in decent fashion. This is the first device that I've seen that could do that.

I'm even more impressed since I have seen Bitwig (ex-Ableton team's new DAW) has already had a touch interface overhaul.
 
M

Mrbob

Member
mrklaw said:
Is that university or any level of school? And can I abus-I mean take advantage of that as a parent with kids at school?
Click to expand...

Maybe? I think it is for USA only. Google MS education store and there will be a link to a page where you input a college. If the school is on the list it'll probably work.

LordOfChaos said:
Yep, so as I thought when Panos was saying "add the two additional processors, it's fundamentally two times as powerful", he didn't mean CPU cores, he was doing some meaningless addition of the GPU, G5 chip, and CPU. Dual core CPU.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2989...-surface-pro-4-chips-and-why-they-matter.html
Click to expand...

This is the main reason why I went with the I5 surface book w/ dgpu instead of the I7.
 
Hatty

Hatty

Member
SOLDIER said:
By the way, how much of a student discount does Apple give?
Click to expand...

Most of the time its like $50, Microsoft certainly has them beat in this department. With apple It varies by model while Microsoft seems to do a flat ten percent off
 
N

neogaffer1

Banned
lukeskymac said:
This thread seriously still going?



"Twice as fast as Macbook Pro" my ass.
Click to expand...

as the old non-retina macbook. wasn't this already made clear like 10 times?

edit: and that gpu is still far above any of the iGPUs in any of the Macbooks, only the highest end 15" Retina MBP's dGPU is similarly powerful.

edit 2: ah, you're the guy who wouldn't accept apple copied the surface with the ipad pro. carry on.
 
L

lukeskymac

Member
neogaffer1 said:
as the old non-retina macbook. wasn't this already made clear like 10 times?

edit: and that gpu is still far above any of the iGPUs in any of the Macbooks, only the highest end 15" Retina MBP's dGPU is similarly powerful.

edit 2: ah, you're the guy who wouldn't accept apple copied the surface with the ipad pro. carry on.
Click to expand...

It's still PR bullshit.

Carry on.
 
T

Tommy DJ

Member
The comparison to a set of devices that Apple pretty much doesn't care about anymore is still pretty weird, which is why it's still confusing people. The vanilla MacBook is a part of Apple's goldilocks product scheme where it's priced and positioned so badly that it's meant to push people towards getting an Air or spending more for the Retina.

Assuming it actually is a GT940m, is it really all that better than the Iris 6000 series in the current MacBook Retinas? I was expecting something beefier considering its in a separate compartment away from the CPU :(
 
L

lukeskymac

Member
Tommy DJ said:
The comparison to a set of devices that Apple pretty much doesn't care about anymore is still pretty weird. The vanilla MacBook is a part of Apple's goldilocks product scheme where it's priced and positioned so badly that it's meant to push people towards getting an Air or spending more for the Retina.

Assuming it actually is a GT940m, is it really all that better than the Iris 6000 series in the current MacBook Retinas?
Click to expand...

It's better, but not by much (~10% difference).

Edit: Are we sure the rMBPs are at the 6000 series? Didn't Intel's delays mean the 2015 is running Haswell again?
 
E

ElNino

Member
Hatty said:
Most of the time its like $50, Microsoft certainly has them beat in this department. With apple It varies by model while Microsoft seems to do a flat ten percent off
Click to expand...
I just ordered a 13" MacBook Pro for my son and the Surface Book (i5, dGPU) for myself, and I attempted to use my son's school/education discount for both.

With Apple, I wasn't able to use his elementary school to get a student discount but I was able to find the model I was looking from in their refurbished stock so I went with that.

For MS, his elementary school was eligible for the education discounts so I pre-ordered the Surface Book for 10% off.
 
O

Omnistalgic

Member
Trup1aya said:
I did... And I wouldn't look back...

The lack of mobile apps is easily offset by the availability of full fledged Windows application. Dollar for dollar and pound for pound it's a no-brainier.
Click to expand...
yeah, i actually don't use a ton of mobile apps. Instagram, Facebook messenger, snap chat about sums it up. My main focus would be reading/highlighting PDF and EPUB, note taking, forum browsing, and media playback.

bomblord1 said:
As an Ipad replacement? Idk about the Surface 3 but the Pro 3 is much to large and heavy to be used as an ipad replacement it's just not something I would recommend trying to hold for any extended period of time with one hand.

The Surface 3 is .4 pounds lighter but I can't see that being a huge difference when the ipad .3 lbs lighter than even that (.76 lbs lighter than the pro 3). You can certainly try though. Let me know how it goes if it is light enough I might get one.



Added
Click to expand...
I played around with the Surface 3 and Surface Pro 4 today for about an hour at Best Buy and I can say with confidence, Surface 3 is a joy to hold at a little over 10 inches, definitely the best iPad replacement out of the bunch in form factor, it's really perfect IMO. However, despite the 12 in. screen of the Pro 4, it really isn't that heavy to hold with one hand, in fact, it's very light, and the only reason I wouldn't consider it is mostly for form factor and what can easily fit in my book bag etc...I was using the i5 model and it was blazing fast, really, fell in love with it and the pen in just a short time with it. Still, I don't think I would really use the power, I just want a personal PC for web browsing, note taking, and PDF/EPUB files. I think the Surface 3 would suit me, but being a gamer, I do like to have the extra power.

mrklaw said:
Worth

Also if you don't get any of those, the iPad Air 2 is a great iPad and super fast - and the 2GB ram makes a big difference for things like safari.
Click to expand...
yeah, Air 2 has a bit better screen than Surface 3, but tbh, I'm really a huge fan of the pen after using it. For me note taking, highlighting PDF files are # 1, and Surface is superior in this regard. Sucks though, I do like apps like Snap Chat and Instagram, and this is where Windows store is still lacking, mobile apps.
 
N

neogaffer1

Banned
Omnistalgic said:
yeah, Air 2 has a bit better screen than Surface 3, but tbh, I'm really a huge fan of the pen after using it. For me note taking, highlighting PDF files are # 1, and Surface is superior in this regard. Sucks though, I do like apps like Snap Chat and Instagram, and this is where Windows store is still lacking, mobile apps.
Click to expand...

i don't think this is the case for instagram but if you have snapchat on your phone you wouldn't be able to have it on your tablet anyways--they limit it to one device per account.
 
T

Tommy DJ

Member
lukeskymac said:
It's better, but not by much (~10% difference).

Edit: Are we sure the rMBPs are at the 6000 series? Didn't Intel's delays mean the 2015 is running Haswell again?
Click to expand...

The 13" Retina Macbook Pro has the Iris 6100 judging by Apple's website. The larger 15" doesn't seem to have it though.
 
C

Crisium

Member
Oh nice, I never noticed it was 3:2 aspect ratio. That's awesome. Surface Pro is 3:2 you still see 16:10 and even the taller 4:3 on tablets but not really laptops. The last time I saw 3:2 was the Chromebook Pixel at 2560x1700. Videos aside, the internet is built for taller aspect ratios so I like this in an actual laptop.
 
R

Ran rp

Member
a little bit of tomb raider gameplay from the pcworld review

bybxcx.gif

wcwdju.gif


http://www.pcworld.com/video/59003/microsoft-surface-book-review-it-really-is-this-good
 
A

Arttemis

Member
So I just ordered the Surface Pro 4 w/ i5 and 8GB of RAM and a type cover w/ the education discount. I'm pretty excited! My dad is buying my original Surface Pro from me so I'm getting it for about half off altogether.

EDIT - FUUUUUCK. That new option for the Surface Book with dGPU i5 8GBs is only a couple hundred bucks more than the Surface Pro 4 i5 8GBs. Those gifs are making me really reconsider... Drawback is that the accidental warranty is $100 more expensive on the SB compared to the SP4. With that included, it comes out to be $300 more expensive for the ability to play games. Considering I'm paying less than $500 altogether, the thought of bumping it up another $300 is just too hard to swallow. I don't really need or want the extra resolution, either.

I wish I could just get a 128GB SSD in the SP4 to save some money =(
 
L

luxarific

Nork unification denier
Does anyone know if the cameras on the Book or SP4 are fixed or variable focus? The SP3's cams are fixed focus which was a huge disappointment to me, because it means you can't scan in docs like you can with your phone.
 
R

Ran rp

Member
Hoo-doo said:
Again, this thing really shouldn't be misrepresented as a 'gaming laptop'.

The Tested review stated it pretty clearly. It'll run some older UE games with playable rates at medium settings and downscaled, but probably best not to expect too much out of a 940m.
Click to expand...

that's what i was hoping for honestly. that or better if possible. i mostly game on consoles but would like a laptop that can max out most older games and run more recent games of the past decade at about ~30fps 720p mid settings. my current laptop can barely run tomb raider on low settings lol.
 
A

Arttemis

Member
So the checkout process didn't update my email address like I selected, so I had to cancel my order...

Now I'm really debating hard between the SP4 256GB HDD / i5 / 8GB and the SB 128GB HDD / i5 / 8GB / dGPU.

SP4 benefits:
  • Has better tablet battery life
  • Is smaller in tablet form (which is better for taking notes in class, which I love doing in my original Surface Pro)
  • Cheaper
  • Cheaper accidental insurance
  • I'm not all that likely to game on it over my PS4

SB benefits:
  • More powerful
  • Gives me the option to play modern PC games
  • Better keyboard

I am pretty pissed I can't get a SP4 w/ i5, 8GB RAM, and a 128GB HDD. The upcharge for the unwanted 256GB HDD is upsetting. I wouldn't even have this debate if I could get that and save another $100.
 
D

dLMN8R

Member
luxarific said:
Does anyone know if the cameras on the Book or SP4 are fixed or variable focus? The SP3's cams are fixed focus which was a huge disappointment to me, because it means you can't scan in docs like you can with your phone.
Click to expand...

The rear camera is variable / auto-focus now. I've read a couple reviews that specifically call this out as an improvement they noticed.
 
M

mrklaw

MrArseFace
Arttemis said:
I am pretty pissed I can't get a SP4 w/ i5, 8GB RAM, and a 128GB HDD. The upcharge for the unwanted 256GB HDD is upsetting. I wouldn't even have this debate if I could get that and save another $100.
Click to expand...

agreed. Seems MS felt the pricing for the dGPU models were a bit high so adjusted it with this new version to avoid some backlash maybe? Would be nice if they could do the same with SB4 - that's the version I'd get too
 
R

Ran rp

Member
Cross postin'

Tomb Raider was running at 71fps at 1280x1024

For example, Tomb Raider at normal is fully playable and quite smooth at 71 fps on the Surface Book at 1,280x1,024. DiRT Rally can be run at ever-high settings with the same resolution compromise. It’s honestly acceptable gaming if you have tempered expectations and accept that this is a GeForce 940m-class GPU, not a GeForce GTX 980.
Click to expand...

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2995572/laptop-computers/surface-book-revie
 
L

luxarific

Nork unification denier
dLMN8R said:
The rear camera is variable / auto-focus now. I've read a couple reviews that specifically call this out as an improvement they noticed.
Click to expand...

HMMMMMM. Man, now I'm thinking of the Book instead of the SP4 because I'd love to play ESO on the Book. ESO plays on the SP3, but it's like you're looking at an impressionist painting, cause you need to dial down the resolution to minecraft-like settings if you want to have an acceptible 30-ish fps. Need to look at the weight differences.
 
A

Arttemis

Member
luxarific said:
HMMMMMM. Man, now I'm thinking of the Book instead of the SP4 because I'd love to play ESO on the Book. ESO plays on the SP3, but it's like you're looking at an impressionist painting, cause you need to dial down the resolution to minecraft-like settings if you want to have an acceptible 30-ish fps. Need to look at the weight differences.
Click to expand...

SP4 - 1.73 lbs / 786 grams
SB - 3.34 lbs / 1516 grams
 
T

texore

Member
luxarific said:
HMMMMMM. Man, now I'm thinking of the Book instead of the SP4 because I'd love to play ESO on the Book. ESO plays on the SP3, but it's like you're looking at an impressionist painting, cause you need to dial down the resolution to minecraft-like settings if you want to have an acceptible 30-ish fps. Need to look at the weight differences.
Click to expand...
Lol I read the impressionist painting part and thought you were saying the game looked amazing.
 
R

Ran rp

Member
http://www.laptopmag.com/reviews/laptops/microsoft-surface-book

In fact, the integrated GPU ably handled World of Warcraft at 1080p on auto settings, notching a perfectly playable 43 frames per second.

wow.jpg


However, if you really want to game between meetings, the Nvidia model of the Surface Book is the way to go. The World of Warcraft score on 1080p at auto settings jumped to 82 fps, and it remained playable at native resolution (3200 x 2000 pixels) with 47 fps. The integrated GPU model mustered only 22 fps at the same resolution.
Click to expand...

The Surface Book with Nvidia's GPU can also handle demanding 3D titles that the integrated GPU model can't touch. For example, the system notched 46 fps on BioShock (on low at 1080p) and 36 fps on Metro: Last Light (same settings).
Click to expand...
 
T

ThoseDeafMutes

Member
More GPU perf in future models will be great I'm sure, but the only game I'm basically wanting to play on it is Hearts of Iron 4 early next year, which this should be ideal for. The Paradox grand strat games run, but poorly on my SP2. Methinks that roughly double the gpu performance of that should be exactly what the doctor ordered.
 
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