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[Lach]

Hey GAF

Finally getting around to post. First of all thank you for the awesome "coverage" of the grand prix on sunday. I was on in the train from the Airport to the Hotel in Tokyo and continuously refreshing neogaf was the best way to follow the race. Shame I had to miss that great race and seeing Sauber reaching a podium finish. Sunhi's gifs were a great extra! Thank's so much!

As a "defacto" Sauber Fan I feel I need to defend that radio message. While I understand it wasn't great for the race and Perez himself, you need to see that 18 points are worth a lot more to a midfield team than for a top team. It's a third of the points that sauber made last season in total and I'm pretty sure that FI or TR would have made similar messages in that situation.

 

[ReadingRambo]

I don't think people are so much criticizing the content of the message (which is fairly open to interpretation) but the timing. While we don't know exactly when the message went out, basically telling your man to hold his position while he is eating into the lead and knocking out fastest laps left and right was a crappy move.

 

[Psychotext]

glol

 

[Staab]

Look at it from another point of view though:
his tires were degrading pretty badly because he pushed so hard, if he had flipped out of the track and crashed (which he nearly did), it would've been like throwing 18points to the wind.
He was in a position to bag those points and I totally understand Sauber's decision to try and make sure he does just that instead of going for the all-in.

Of course there's all the Ferrari haters that pull out random stories out of their bags to find evil where there is none but yeah otherwise it sounds reasonable to me.

 

[ReadingRambo]

Fair enough.

 

[ANDY_098]

Formula 1 could move young driver test to Silverstone
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/98421

Formula 1 teams are weighing up the idea of running this year's young driver test at Silverstone in the week after the British Grand Prix, AUTOSPORT has learned.

Although the original idea was for the test to take place at the end of the season, as it did in 2010, last year it happened after the penultimate event in Abu Dhabi because teams did not want to stay on in Brazil after the finale.

The structure of the calendar this year means that Abu Dhabi takes place a fortnight before the United States Grand Prix, which would effectively mean team members would have to work for five consecutive weeks.

One idea that has received some support is to try and shift the young driver test to take place at Silverstone immediately after the British GP. However not all teams are in favour because of the difficulty of sorting out drivers at that stage of the campaign.

I'm all for this. Were the young driver tests in Abu Dhabi open to spectators? I'd bet they would get a decent turnout at Silverstone.

 

[pappe]

Maldonaldo should have backed off in the Aus GP , he didnt and crashed into the wall.

 

[ANDY_098]

Sebastian Vettel deliberately ignored Red Bull's orders
http://www.auto123.com/en/racing-ne...erately-ignored-red-bulls-orders?artid=141949

The team was heard on the radio instructing the reigning back-to-back world champion to retire his car, ostensibly because of dangerously high brake temperatures.

So often were the calls unheeded that Vettel's engineer Guillaume 'Rocky' Rocquelin ultimately declared it an "emergency".

A late-race retirement, with Vettel definitely out of the points following his clash with Narain Karthikeyan, would have allowed Red Bull to install a new gearbox in his car for the forthcoming event in China.

Red Bull explained that Vettel did not hear the instructions due to a broken radio.

But photographs have emerged that show those instructions were also reflected in Vettel's end-of-lap pit boards.

And the 24-year-old let slip immediately after the race: "Of course you can save the car, but I wanted to see the chequered flag. I think that's how it should be."

Bild newspaper surmises that Vettel "ignored his bosses' orders".

Team boss Christian Horner commented: "We'll talk about it."

 

[ReadingRambo]

Ohhhhh snap.


Not surprised as this pretty much jives with his personality.

 

[Psychotext]

It's a shame we'll never get to know if they really thought that there was a problem with the left rear brake.

 

[Shaneus]

Sebastian Vettel deliberately ignored Red Bull's orders
http://www.auto123.com/en/racing-ne...erately-ignored-red-bulls-orders?artid=141949

Oh shit. Webber can obey orders by not overtaking V last year, so what happens when Golden Child doesn't? Good on him for not backing down, but given how evenly matched the RB8 is with the other top runners, he's far better off following the team re: parts management.

 

[Adamm]

I wonder could these sort of things come back & bite vettel in the ass.

Sure when you are winning every week its fine to ignore team orders & keep pushing for the fastest lap.

But when your team is struggling & you decide to stay out and put your car at risk for no reason - it might not end well..

 

[Gareth Bale]

Sebastian Vettel deliberately ignored Red Bull's orders
http://www.auto123.com/en/racing-ne...erately-ignored-red-bulls-orders?artid=141949

This seemed obvious didn't it? That he could hear them but not the other way around. Otherwise the message telling him his radio was not working and that he should use buttons to communicate would have been pretty pointless, as well as all the other messages telling him to pit/stay out/pit. They would have asked him to confirm on the wheel that he could hear them instead of talking to thin air the whole time.

 

[ReadingRambo]

I wonder could these sort of things come back & bite vettel in the ass.

Sure when you are winning every week its fine to ignore team orders & keep pushing for the fastest lap.

But when your team is struggling & you decide to stay out and put your car at risk for no reason - it might not end well..

This. He hasn't adjusted to the "not winning all the damn time" mindset where the ends don't always justify the means.

 

[Psychotext]

Oh shit. Webber can obey orders by not overtaking V last year

You're kidding right? Webber did everything he could to get past Vettel. He even admitted to completely ignoring the orders.

 

[Shaneus]

You're kidding right? Webber did everything he could to get past Vettel. He even admitted to completely ignoring the orders.

We must be thinking of different races. I was sure there was one where Mark was ordered to not pass Seb and he backed off right near the end. Maybe not.

 

[Gareth Bale]

We must be thinking of different races. I was sure there was one where Mark was ordered to not pass Seb and he backed off right near the end. Maybe not.

Silverstone? I think he did admit to ignoring those orders though, even though it looked like he backed off towards the end.

 

[WorriedCitizen]

Seems like Vettel can't do anything right in the eyes of his haters. He's calling NK an idiot for ruining his race: "omg what an unsporty cunt". He ignores a team order that would exploit a dubious loop hole in the rules to keep it fair: "omg what an egomanic prick".
Not necessarely an reflection on this thread but general vibes that i get in F1 forums.

 

[brotkasten]

Sebastian Vettel deliberately ignored Red Bull's orders
http://www.auto123.com/en/racing-ne...erately-ignored-red-bulls-orders?artid=141949

He was obviously very frustrated that Sunday and a DNF few laps before the finish would've been really terrible for him. This guy wants the third WDC and all the other records, to finish a race like that is not something he's used to. I don't want him to suck, because he's a genuinely good guy, but I hope this season will continue a little bit like that for him, because he's still very young and it only helps to build character.

 

[smiggyRT]

We must be thinking of different races. I was sure there was one where Mark was ordered to not pass Seb and he backed off right near the end. Maybe not.

Silverstone?

Ted Kravitz has his Notebook feature up for Malaysia.

http://www1.skysports.com/formula1/video/18305/7625404

 

[brotkasten]

We must be thinking of different races. I was sure there was one where Mark was ordered to not pass Seb and he backed off right near the end. Maybe not.

Eh, I'm not surprised you "forgot" it.

SILVERSTONE: Frustrated Mark Webber admitted he ignored team orders not to overtake his Red Bull teammate Sebastian Vettel during the final stages of Sunday's British Grand Prix.

The 34-year-old Australian caught German Vettel in the final laps and despite instructions from his team telling him to 'maintain the gap', he mounted several unsuccessful overtaking attempts before settling for third behind winner Fernando Alonso.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/sport/motorsp...odium-place-20110711-1h9co.html#ixzz1qJv4YD2t

 

[Foliorum Viridum]

I was glad Mark ignored the orders in Silverstone. He wanted the win and that's right for a driver.

Vettel's case is a bit different because it was potentially dangerous and he wasn't really in a great position anyway. I think it would have been smarter to retire, however I can't condemn him for wanting to finish the race. That's also a natural racer instinct.

 

[mclem]

As a "defacto" Sauber Fan I feel I need to defend that radio message. While I understand it wasn't great for the race and Perez himself, you need to see that 18 points are worth a lot more to a midfield team than for a top team. It's a third of the points that sauber made last season in total and I'm pretty sure that FI or TR would have made similar messages in that situation.

How much *money* is attached to that sort of finish, anyway? I'm curious how it compares to their total winnings from their placings in previous seasons.

 

[mclem]

We must be thinking of different races. I was sure there was one where Mark was ordered to not pass Seb and he backed off right near the end. Maybe not.

Was it the one immediately before "Not bad for a number 2 driver"?

 

[Orgun]

I was glad Mark ignored the orders in Silverstone. He wanted the win and that's right for a driver.

Vettel's case is a bit different because it was potentially dangerous and he wasn't really in a great position anyway. I think it would have been smarter to retire, however I can't condemn him for wanting to finish the race. That's also a natural racer instinct.

What he said.

 

[Lucius86]

It's one thing ignoring orders for competitive, sporting reasons.

It's another for the safety of yourself and other drivers.

 

[ReadingRambo]

I do think his pride got in the way a bit. If the team really needed a gearbox change it could come back to bite him hard.

 

[Ghost]

It's one thing ignoring orders for competitive, sporting reasons.

It's another for the safety of yourself and other drivers.

Yeah except how much was there really any danger and how much did Red Bull want to replace the gearbox without penalty?

The way things flowed in the Sky Commentary made it seem very much like the latter

 

[Foliorum Viridum]

I do think his pride got in the way a bit. If the team really needed a gearbox change it could come back to bite him hard.

His pride definitely got in the way. Seb has been top of the world for the last two years and now he's struggling, not just on the track but psychologically.

Like I said the other day, Webber is much more used to being in this situation and that's why he's handling it better, I think.

Vettel will come back for sure, and I definitely wouldn't rule him out for winning this year yet, but this is a tough time and a learning experience for him.

 

[Lucius86]

Yeah except how much was there really any danger and how much did Red Bull want to replace the gearbox without penalty?

The way things flowed in the Sky Commentary made it seem very much like the latter

The team was heard on the radio instructing the reigning back-to-back world champion to retire his car, ostensibly because of dangerously high brake temperatures.

But his brakes were potentially overheating. Brake failure is likely one of the worst things you want at 200MPH I would hazard to guess. If that message was broadcast to Seb, he's an utter idiot for carrying on.

 

[brotkasten]

I'm surprised people are still defending Massa.

The loudest voices are being heard in the Italian press, with a La Stampa headline saying Ferrari "has done everything it can to support him (Massa), but everything is meaningless.

"You would have to find him a new team with a weaker teammate. That would be the only way to save him."

A Ferrari insider told Germany's Auto Motor und Sport: "Since Jean Todt left Ferrari, they are once again listening to the press."

Oricchio contends that Ferrari is not giving Massa a fair go.

"At times, Massa has become a test driver -- with (private) testing forbidden, he is the one experimenting with new components at the two races so far.

"And in some of this testing there was so little downforce on the car that it explains fully his difficulties," the Brazilian added.

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ferrari-should-explain-massa-s-test-driver-role/

 

[Goldrusher]

How much *money* is attached to that sort of finish, anyway? I'm curious how it compares to their total winnings from their placings in previous seasons.

Race finishes and/or drivers are not rewarded any money.

However, at the end of the season, the teams get this:

1. 90 million
2. 80
3. 70
4. 65
5. 60
6. 58
7. 52
8. 49
9. 46
10. 42

(deduct $30 million if they were not in the top 10 for at least 1 of the previous 2 seasons)

Ferrari gets an additional $30 million bonus because of its historical status.

McLaren, Williams, Mercedes, Renault, Red Bull and again Ferrari get a bonus because they have won championships in the past. Between 3 million (Red Bull) and 16 million (Ferrari). The more championships and the more recent they are, the higher the amount.

New teams - if there are any - get a $10 million bonus.

So if HRT were to finish 10th, they would get 12 million. (42-30)
If we had a new team (first season) in 10th, they would get 22 million. (42-30+10)
If Caterham finishes 10th, they get 42 million. (42)
If Ferrari finishes 10th, they get 90 million. :') (42+30+16)

A more detailed explanation here: http://bbs.hellof1.com/2976344_256650.html
There are however no official documents about this though.

 

[rithvikgv]

What are you guys on about? The fact that the thunderstorm knocked out Seb's radio was referred to on multiple programs, by multiple people at multiple times.

 

[smiggyRT]

What are you guys on about? The fact that the thunderstorm knocked out Seb's radio was referred to on multiple programs, by multiple people at multiple times.

He alluded to fact that he ignored the call for him to in, I think communication was one way.

 

[Adamm]

What are you guys on about? The fact that the thunderstorm knocked out Seb's radio was referred to on multiple programs, by multiple people at multiple times.

It was still put up on his pit board. Oh & he also admitted he ignored the orders after the race.

And the 24-year-old let slip immediately after the race: "Of course you can save the car, but I wanted to see the chequered flag. I think that's how it should be."

 

[rithvikgv]

They categorically stated that he heard nothing and was blissfully unaware of the manic pit to car communication in the end.

 

[Dilly]

It's going to be so interesting to see Vettel's behaviour when he's at the subtop pushing for podiums and wins after 2 of what are probably going to be the most succesful years of his career.

They categorically stated that he heard nothing and was blissfully unaware of the manic pit to car communication in the end.

It was on his pitboard.

 

[Foliorum Viridum]

Odds for Seb winning are still pretty good, unfortunately. When they get a bit more tempting I'm going to chuck some money on him because you can never rule him out.

Just do badly in one or two more races and then make a comeback. I'll make a killing!

Edit: 33/1 for Ferrari winning championship... that is tempting with Alonso in the car. That's worth a fiver I think.

 

[Adamm]

Edit: 33/1 for Ferrari winning championship... that is tempting with Alonso in the car. That's worth a fiver I think.

Good odds, especially if the 'new car' rumours are true, then the Ferrari could be a half decent car within a few races

 

[Edmond Dantès]

They categorically stated that he heard nothing and was blissfully unaware of the manic pit to car communication in the end.

I rather take his word for it, rather than the team's PR machine.

 

[Foliorum Viridum]

Good odds, especially if the 'new car' rumours are true, then the Ferrari could be a half decent car within a few races

Yup, I just dropped a fiver on it. I had it left over in my account from the bets I put on Webber/Button anyway.

 

[Edmond Dantès]

Good odds, especially if the 'new car' rumours are true, then the Ferrari could be a half decent car within a few races

Multiple bets are the best way to make money. Putting money on an Alonso/Ferrari championship double would yield a very decent amount of winnings.

A hundred pound bet on those kinds of odds would result in thousands.

A thousand pound bet... well you do the math.

 

[Lucius86]

Bets are fun, but remember - bookies always win. Look how many shops there are on high streets these days - they don't pay for themselves.

 

[rithvikgv]

I rather take his word for it, rather than the team's PR machine.

It was Horner on the BBC forum and the quote in question is from Bild. I trust the former more.

 

[Foliorum Viridum]

Bets are fun, but remember - bookies always win. Look how many shops there are on high streets these days - they don't pay for themselves.

For more public service announcements, vote for Lucius86 today.

Good for you, good for your community.

 

[Deadman]

At the start of the season i put 10 on button at 16/1, 5 on raikkonen at 28/1 and 5 on schumacher at 45/1.

 

[S. L.]

It's going to be so interesting to see Vettel's behaviour when he's at the subtop pushing for podiums and wins after 2 of what are probably going to be the most succesful years of his career.



It was on his pitboard.

he was well aware of it, he talked about it in an german tv interview right after the race

 

[Cigol]

Silverstone?

Ted Kravitz has his Notebook feature up for Malaysia.

http://www1.skysports.com/formula1/video/18305/7625404

Ted seems pretty ratty in this, and Lewis was looking like the incredible Hulk at one point, lol.

 

[Lucius86]

For more public service announcements, vote for Lucius86 today.

Good for you, good for your community.

That ought to be my tag.

 

[DD]

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ferrari-should-explain-massa-s-test-driver-role/

As expected, people will just ignore this. It's easier to just bash the guy and put all the blame on him...