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The Last of Us 2 needs to transition to full RPG gameplay
- Thread starter HeelPower
- Start date
Raonak
Banned
No fuck that shit.
Dialog choices is something that would actually betray the whole point of TLOU. the fact that you aren't joel, you are merely playing as him, but he's still making his own choices which you have no choice but to participate in.
Openworld would totally kill the tension of having limited resources, because if there's optional side activities, then you're gonna have to increase the amount of resources you can get.
Shoehorning RPG mechancis into games that don't need it is one of the annoying things this gen.
Dialog choices is something that would actually betray the whole point of TLOU. the fact that you aren't joel, you are merely playing as him, but he's still making his own choices which you have no choice but to participate in.
Openworld would totally kill the tension of having limited resources, because if there's optional side activities, then you're gonna have to increase the amount of resources you can get.
Shoehorning RPG mechancis into games that don't need it is one of the annoying things this gen.
I don't know what the sequel needs, but I found the game unbearable. Just feels like a game trying to be a movie with mediocre gameplay.
I was really disappointed when I played it. Perhaps the hype around it ruined it for me, but I don't think anything could save that gameplay.
I was really disappointed when I played it. Perhaps the hype around it ruined it for me, but I don't think anything could save that gameplay.
Primethius
Banned
This is legitimately a terrible idea.
DreadfulOmen
Member
hell no it doesn't need to be a RPG.
Spring-Loaded
Member
Just have more believable encounters where not every person you come across is in some hive-mind enemy group. Have some be hostile, someone defensive, some who flee from you, etc.
MickeyPhree
Member
No it doesn't.
OP right now:
Its true though.
Most here are attacking RPG like its a dirty word,because of the connotations of bland ubi world that's dominant this gen.
Did people forget that the "gray,military,gears clone,linear cover shooter" was the dominant paradigm of last gen?
I sure as hell didn't,and frankly TLoU was firmly within that realm of game design.It just happened to have disproportionately better writing,dialogue and cutscene direction.
StylesClash
Member
Umm what? No.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
I read the initial OP and was confused.
Then I started to read OP's responses to people in the thread and have come up far more confused than when I initially read the thread.
I honestly have no idea what you're asking or what your criticisms are, everything you're saying feels really disjointed
Then I started to read OP's responses to people in the thread and have come up far more confused than when I initially read the thread.
I honestly have no idea what you're asking or what your criticisms are, everything you're saying feels really disjointed
swazzyswess
Member
the gameplay was phenomenal IMO. TLOU remains one of my favorite MP games ever, and it basically only used the mechanics from the SP game.
i'll take more of that with some enhancements, please. no needless XP grinding, no open world stuff.
Lord of Ostia
Member
And those things mean it isn't a 'gray military gears clone' like you are suggesting. People are attacking your idea because they don't think it would improve the experience, and your arguments as to why it would are not compelling. I don't buy this idea that there is a huge disconnect between the story and the gameplay, and neither do many posters here. You haven't convinced anyone that this disconnect exists, or that making the game an RPG would fix this perceived disconnect.
visiblemode
Member
There is a very small vocal minority that keeps trying to explain how to "fix" one of the most beloved games of all time, by radically changing it. No thanks.
Different tastes. I very rarely quit games. Maybe 1 -3 a year. I dropped this after 3 hours. Gameplay was hyper boring and the narrative seemed influenced by hollywood tropes.
Nothing interesting. My brother felt exactly the same and forced himself through it thinking it would get better. I wonder if it's a cultural thing. We both have very different tastes in games, but I guess at the end of the day we both prefer Japanese games.
Fbh
Member
I really liked the gameplay in TLOU and think it fits perfectly with the type of story they are telling.
There is room for improvement of course and it would be nice to see some more open areas (without it being actually open world) but I really wouldn't like it to be an RPG.
TLOU with sidequests and finding gear to manage and contantly stopping for dialog trees and player choices would have been a way worse game IMO
There is room for improvement of course and it would be nice to see some more open areas (without it being actually open world) but I really wouldn't like it to be an RPG.
TLOU with sidequests and finding gear to manage and contantly stopping for dialog trees and player choices would have been a way worse game IMO
BlackBuzzard
Banned
No.
Does not need to be an RPG
Does not need to be an open world game
Does not need to be a service game
Does not need to have Souls combat
Does not need to be an RPG
Does not need to be an open world game
Does not need to be a service game
Does not need to have Souls combat
SolidSnakex
Member
There's no disconnect there. She's out on her own and also in desperate need of medical supplies. And on top of that David shows no signs of being a threat initially. You point out that shortly after she's ready to kill again. Well, sure she is. Because shortly after she hears this
Goon 1: What are you waiting for? Shoot her!
Good 2: But David said...
Good 1: Fuck David. Shoot her now!
It's fairly safe to say that she isn't going to get far trying to reason with them.
I don't think most people are attacking rpgs, I love rpgs, but I don't think that kind of gameplay would work in TLOU. What made that game great was the focus on Joel and Ellies story and the linear gameplay that tied it all together. Too much role-playing elements would be the opposite of that.
It sounds more like you want an rpg spin-off in the same universe and not TLOU2
the_lizard
Member
I'm failing to see the link between RPG gameplay and the narrative elements you describe. There's no connection between the two. Not saying I'm totally opposed to TLoU2 leaning more into certain RPG conventions--that could be good--but your reasoning is bogus.
triplestation
Member
delet this
finalflame
Member
nephew
I really felt that the brutality of the gameplay really underscored the world and dialogue, emergent gameplay, and music really set a contemplative and dark tone on Joel and Ellie's adventure. I never felt that the narrative was constrained by gameplay elements as I suppose you were OP. It was the opposite as I felt like I was on a violent journey through the heart of darkness with two characters and I got to meet friends and foes on the way that enriched the worldview that might be limited by just Joel and Ellie's perspective. Cutscenes and notes, I feel, were effective in that purpose. Consider Ish, a character who's story was completely told through the environment and notes and still resonated with a lot of people. ND didn't need an RPG structure to tell that story.
Unaha-Closp
Member
I'm good with how Naughty Dog want to make it. The Last of Us is one of the best games I've played so I'm happy I am getting to see how Ellie is now and what she has to deal with.
That's the only thing i can agree with you op,i want them try another types of games but with new IPs.
ModestMouseTrap
Banned
Id be willing to wager most of the people here love RPG's.
It's not that we don't like RPG's. That's a stupid claim.
It's that you are quite literally saying that the Last of Us should be a different type of game.
No. No it shouldn't. The last of us is the last of us. The three tenets of the gameplay are survival action, stealth, and scrounging for supplies. All of these are reflected in the world and the story of this game. If you don't understand that, then you really don't understand the world of this game.
It doesn't seem like you actually get this game.
Play something else, it's ok if you don't like it.
It's not that we don't like RPG's. That's a stupid claim.
It's that you are quite literally saying that the Last of Us should be a different type of game.
No. No it shouldn't. The last of us is the last of us. The three tenets of the gameplay are survival action, stealth, and scrounging for supplies. All of these are reflected in the world and the story of this game. If you don't understand that, then you really don't understand the world of this game.
It doesn't seem like you actually get this game.
Play something else, it's ok if you don't like it.
Nah, I've painted myself into a corner and killed discussion when I put RPG into the title.
Should've worded title and OP differently.Too late now.
I am not asking for TLoU to turn into a bland collectathon,"objective filled" open world.
Lord of Ostia
Member
Yep, pretty much. I love RPGs, they are my favorite genre by far, but I don't need TLOU to be one. It is exactly what it needs to be. There is room for improvement, particularly when it comes to AI behaviors and combat encounter design, but overall it utilizes all of the strengths of a linear action game to great effect.
Net_Wrecker
Member
I think it would be way more interesting to have some kind of procedural or random AI, and do the thing Ubisoft was trying to with I Am Alive, where you can run into people who you're not sure are enemies, allies, or neutral, and those dynamics form in real time. That way the game could throw you into any number of scenarios:
- Full aggro
- Ambush
- Jerk(s) who is/are neutral/friendly then ambush
- Aggro who runs after intimidation
- Neutral
- Neutral who turns aggressive after being threatened
- Neutral who runs after being threatened
- Friendly
- Friendly coward
- Friendly who turns aggressive when threatened
- etc...
And the player's weapons, ammo, posture, actions, etc. would play a part in how these play out. You'd be able to fight, exchange greetings, trade, temporarily team up, etc. through completely systemic encounters. Tensions would always be high because you're never sure what is about to happen. Keeps the game tense and about ACTIONS, not stats and skill checks.
- Full aggro
- Ambush
- Jerk(s) who is/are neutral/friendly then ambush
- Aggro who runs after intimidation
- Neutral
- Neutral who turns aggressive after being threatened
- Neutral who runs after being threatened
- Friendly
- Friendly coward
- Friendly who turns aggressive when threatened
- etc...
And the player's weapons, ammo, posture, actions, etc. would play a part in how these play out. You'd be able to fight, exchange greetings, trade, temporarily team up, etc. through completely systemic encounters. Tensions would always be high because you're never sure what is about to happen. Keeps the game tense and about ACTIONS, not stats and skill checks.
NipplesAndToes23
Member
That makes sense, but I don't see it happening if they're going to keep human enemies.
I actually agree with this totally.
This is the kind of the thing I was shooting for.
lmao oh man, this op is amazing.
Nah, you painted yourself into a corner when you couldn't really say what you are looking TLoU 2 to actually do other than "don't be TLoU"
SolidSnakex
Member
But what do you want specifically? It kinda sounds like you want dialog trees, but that would really go against what TLoU is. The game never pretends that you have any guidance over the story. You can't stop Tess from getting bit. You can't stop Sam from shooting himself. You can't choose to not kill the lead doctor in the operating room. And that's all because you're along for the story. It's a predefined story about Ellie and Joel. While something like The Witcher 3 has certain beats that'll happen no matter what, it's also a game with multiple endings, one where you can choose whether to have certain characters stick around and so on. So it's far away from what TLoU is trying to do.
bigboss370
Member
you lost me at your opening sentence OP, sorry :/
I agree with this completely
but this, not so much. They don't need to make it an RPG, they just need to make it a better game.
I know gaf has an eternal hard on for TLOU but the gameplay was decent at best. Too many dumb ladders, stupid fucking rafts, and broken generators. Too many identical encounters in corridors filled with chest high walls. The stealth was not enjoyable at all for me either.
Oh, and get a better medical consultant cuz holy fucking shit did the plot get stupid really fast.
Sarcasm?
xplicitone
Member
TLOU was perfect the way it was. Naughty Dog knows how to make fantastic games and well leave them to do their job. Kthxbai
The Strokes
Banned
jesus christ, this game will be something.
Also no, no RPG or Open Worldness in my GOAT, please.
Any Questions
Member
Can we also have a card game. With dice.
Incidentally, I think UC4 did a much better job of merging gameplay and narrative that any other ND game.
Perhaps the "walking sections" needed to have a bit more variety ,but they actually established another dimension to the game other than shooting.
I know people hated the lack of shooting/"walking simulation" though.
funkystudent
Member
The would doesn't need another open world zombie game with RPG bits.
I wouldnt be against ND doing something more RPG like with the new IP though. I bet they could split the difference and do something amazing on the openness of a Deus Ex or Witcher 2.
I wouldnt be against ND doing something more RPG like with the new IP though. I bet they could split the difference and do something amazing on the openness of a Deus Ex or Witcher 2.
Glass Rebel
Member
I feel like the fact that you're experiencing the story of two characters (Joel and Ellie) is at odds with the action gameplay. You're either playing Joel or Ellie but it's both characters' journey. A turn-based combat system where you control both would be way more fitting imo.
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