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[maneil99]

Just curious, what's plain silly about that?

edit: I'm asking because I put together a system today and paid $70 for windows, would like to know if it could be gotten cheaper elsewhere.

Reddit.com/r/softwareswap has keys from university students for $10-$20. Either way he comes off as rude entering a TLOU thread and trying to get people to hop onto his platform of choice.

 

[shinobi602]

There's definitely a sense of other people's endorsement and herd mentality backing up this game.

It's a slice of fashionable melodrama unique and relatively novel to gaming for many, It was a mediocre movie which required button presses to sustain for everyone else.

Dafuq did I just read?

 

[Dire]

Just curious, what's plain silly about that?

You can get legit keys for around $20 on the reddit software swap. Beyond that many people have keys they can transfer, can purchase at their university/school on the cheap, MS subscriptions, etc.

 

[illmatic22]

The way some Nintendo fans are with ND games...

No idea why they hold such a grudge against them. Don't like these type of games? Don't play them. But stop judging what games must be.

 

[hawk2025]

Dafuq did I just read?

He's set up a perfect Catch 22.

You see, the game can't possibly be amazingly good.

Because if it is, it wins too many awards, and thus becomes a product of herd mentality. Clearly, look at all that evidence with all dem awards!

 

[GQman2121]

It doesn't have to be (although ideally it is), but the zealous praise for this game doesn't seem terribly steeped in the gameplay, which seems both odd and interesting considering that, well, it is a game.

I probably wasn't as clear with my original post (which was more a criticism of 'look how many awards this shit got'). I think this game more than any is representative of a shift towards narrative over what we traditionally term gameplay. People are backing this game because it's breaking new ground, and that's exciting to many. But it's not breaking new ground in gameplay, at all. Is that worth singing and dancing about? For fans of 'gaming' as a flexible, interactive storytelling medium, maybe. For gamers? Not really.

You're cherry picking praise from a crowd (or yet an image posted) of many to justify your criticism for the games lack of innovation.

I don't personally agree with you, yet I understand your side of the argument.

But you should also understand that you sound like an ass when you talk down to people from your "gamers" high horse.

 

[maneil99]

The way some Nintendo fans are with ND games...

No idea why they hold such a grudge against them. Don't like these type of games? Don't play them. But stop judging what games must be.

They likely blame that fact less people are buying into Nintendo's hardware and software mindset with AAA gaming trends popularized by excellent games like Naughty Dog's.

 

[Loakum]

Tell me this thread isn't gonna turn into what we see in those The Order 1886 threads?

 

[Y2Kev]

i wonder how much more condescending you can get.

It would be pretty hard to do!

 

[KoopaTheCasual]

MeloNoPics.gif

 

[Cave Johnson]

It doesn't have to be (although ideally it is), but the zealous praise for this game doesn't seem terribly steeped in the gameplay, which seems both odd and interesting considering that, well, it is a game.

You've hit it right in the head. The gameplay was far from the focus of praise ironically it was getting. It was more about the story, the companionship and ND's testament of pacing that was resonated amongst reviews and gamers alike. Which is why it is not surprising to see "gameplay" was hardly extrapolated because - at best - is a competent game among the generic formula titles have been released.

But that discussion always end up awry because of its inherent flaws - in this case, the AI. While at the fundamental "gameplay" level; it works, challenging the player mechanics by the least. But the nerfed design of said AI of not capable of observing your partner(s) really heightened the dissonant effect, considering the story and journey was perfectly consistent throughout.

What makes matters even more complicated was that the original gameplay reveal never showcased such flaws; the AI was far more reactive and there was nothing to indicate the same dissonant effect we see at the final game. It was consistent, it escalated the tension to unprecedented levels. Gamers were talking about the reveal gameplay more than the actual gameplay of the final product. That is a very telling evaluation, regardless of how it was received.

 

[illmatic22]

They likely blame that fact less people are buying into Nintendo's hardware and software mindset with AAA gaming trends popularized by excellent games like Naughty Dog's.

Don't their games sell well? MK8 seems to be selling despite the Wii U's issues

 

[jett]

I really don't understand why we haven't got a single direct-feed screenshot of this game.

 

[prwxv3]

You've hit it right in the head. The gameplay was far from the focus of praise ironically it was getting. It was more about the story, the companionship and ND's testament of pacing that was resonated amongst reviews and gamers alike. Which is why it is not surprising to see "gameplay" was hardly extrapolated because - at best - is a competent game among the generic formula titles have been released.

But that discussion always end up awry because of its inherent flaws - in this case, the AI. While at the fundamental "gameplay" level; it works, challenging the player mechanics by the least. But the nerfed design of said AI of not capable of observing your partner(s) really heightened the dissonant effect, considering the story and journey was perfectly consistent throughout.

What makes matters even more complicated was that the original gameplay reveal never showcased such flaws; the AI was far more reactive and there was nothing to indicate the same dissonant effect we see at the final game. It was consistent, it escalated the tension to unprecedented levels. Gamers were talking about the reveal gameplay more than the actual gameplay of the final product. That is a very telling evaluation, regardless of how it was received.

Enimies being able to detect your partners would have broken the game.

I thought the gameplay was fucking awesome myself.

 

[Dipz]

I really don't understand why we haven't got a single direct-feed screenshot of this game.

You can't sell 60FPS with a screenshot

 

[maneil99]

Don't their games sell well? MK8 seems to be selling despite the Wii U's issues

Yea it's selling well compared to the playerbase but likely won't do aswell as it could have if the system was a success saleswise. Nintendo sales sucking likely can be partly linked to the fact their gameplay systems are in a different state then recent games like Uncharted, Gears ect. Some people seem to have a bias against these games because of the fact they may have had a detrimental effect on Nintendo.


On topic, I agree that they should release some actual screenshots of ingame gameplay or a youtube video before launch. I'll be buying it likely at or around launch but it would be nice to know what I am getting into a second time

 

[hawk2025]

You've hit it right in the head. The gameplay was far from the focus of praise ironically it was getting. It was more about the story, the companionship and ND's testament of pacing that was resonated amongst reviews and gamers alike. Which is why it is not surprising to see "gameplay" was hardly extrapolated because - at best - is a competent game among the generic formula titles have been released.

But that discussion always end up awry because of its inherent flaws - in this case, the AI. While at the fundamental "gameplay" level; it works, challenging the player mechanics by the least. But the nerfed design of said AI of not capable of observing your partner(s) really heightened the dissonant effect, considering the story and journey was perfectly consistent throughout.

What makes matters even more complicated was that the original gameplay reveal never showcased such flaws; the AI was far more reactive and there was nothing to indicate the same dissonant effect we see at the final game. It was consistent, it escalated the tension to unprecedented levels. Gamers were talking about the reveal gameplay more than the actual gameplay of the final product. That is a very telling evaluation, regardless of how it was received.

Complete nonsense.

The game is, beyond the story, frequently praised for its incredible multiplayer.

This attempt at twisting and turning this game into generic AAA pap is complete insanity.

 

[Ottoni_Bastos]

There's definitely a sense of other people's endorsement and herd mentality backing up this game.

It's a slice of fashionable melodrama unique and relatively novel to gaming for many, It was a mediocre movie which required button presses to sustain for everyone else.

Only for people who watched the game on youtube and assumed that everything was QTE like Heavy rain.

ND gameplay is not unique or "fresh" but is solid and fun. It's not a QTE fest like QD games(which i liked but a lot of people don't) or Ryse son of rome.

 

[Nipo]

In the past it was.

Now you can build PCs that handily outperform consoles for the same price as a console!

Even Gamespot is now running articles about this: http://www.gamespot.com/articles/can-we-build-a-gaming-pc-on-a-console-budget/1100-6418829/

They ended up paying about $550 but did some silly things like adding tax (you generally don't pay tax when purchasing online), adding $70-$100 for a windows license which is plain silly and generally adding things that are better than their console equivalents and cost more yet provide marginal benefits like a 7200RPM disk drive vs the 5400 you have in consoles. In reality those systems cost about the same you spent on your PS4.

Of course you're not restricted to 'just' outperforming consoles. You can go as far ahead as you want, but the above is completely unprecedented this early in consoles' life so I think it's important to correct the misinformation. -Back to your regularly scheduled cheering for a 60FPS upgrade now.

It doesn't matter how much you spend on your PC it won't play the Last of Us Remastered Bloodborne or the other PS4 exclusives.

A gaming PC isn't a replacement for a PS4 it is a complement to it. If you choose to go with one instead of the other you're missing out on too many great games no matter what platform you choose.

 

[prwxv3]

Complete nonsense.

The game is, beyond the story, frequently praised for its incredible multiplayer.

This attempt at twisting and turning this game into generic AAA pap is complete insanity.

I don't mind if someone thinks the gamplay is not good or whatnot but trying to accuse the game of being like other shooting games that have been released this gen is complete hogwash.

 

[RoboPlato]

You've hit it right in the head. The gameplay was far from the focus of praise ironically it was getting. It was more about the story, the companionship and ND's testament of pacing that was resonated amongst reviews and gamers alike. Which is why it is not surprising to see "gameplay" was hardly extrapolated because - at best - is a competent game among the generic formula titles have been released.

But that discussion always end up awry because of its inherent flaws - in this case, the AI. While at the fundamental "gameplay" level; it works, challenging the player mechanics by the least. But the nerfed design of said AI of not capable of observing your partner(s) really heightened the dissonant effect, considering the story and journey was perfectly consistent throughout.

What makes matters even more complicated was that the original gameplay reveal never showcased such flaws; the AI was far more reactive and there was nothing to indicate the same dissonant effect we see at the final game. It was consistent, it escalated the tension to unprecedented levels. Gamers were talking about the reveal gameplay more than the actual gameplay of the final product. That is a very telling evaluation, regardless of how it was received.

If you think the gameplay hasn't been lauded, you haven't been paying attention. The best moments in this game are the tense, dynamic stealth combat sections that leaves the player exhausted and drained at the end of each encounter and rarely play out the same way twice. It's got excellent gameplay and a great narrative that play off of each other. That's why it's a classic.

 

[hawk2025]

I don't mind if someone thinks the gamplay is not good or whatnot but trying to accuse the game of being like other shooting games that have been released this gen is complete hogwash.

And that is the problem.

It typically doesn't stop there -- criticisms like the above frequently boil down to irrelevant false equivalencies.

 

[Magwik]

PC Gaming and Nintendo. What the fuck happened to this thread.

 

[Y2Kev]

You've hit it right in the head. The gameplay was far from the focus of praise ironically it was getting. It was more about the story, the companionship and ND's testament of pacing that was resonated amongst reviews and gamers alike. Which is why it is not surprising to see "gameplay" was hardly extrapolated because - at best - is a competent game among the generic formula titles have been released.

But that discussion always end up awry because of its inherent flaws - in this case, the AI. While at the fundamental "gameplay" level; it works, challenging the player mechanics by the least. But the nerfed design of said AI of not capable of observing your partner(s) really heightened the dissonant effect, considering the story and journey was perfectly consistent throughout.

What makes matters even more complicated was that the original gameplay reveal never showcased such flaws; the AI was far more reactive and there was nothing to indicate the same dissonant effect we see at the final game. It was consistent, it escalated the tension to unprecedented levels. Gamers were talking about the reveal gameplay more than the actual gameplay of the final product. That is a very telling evaluation, regardless of how it was received.

You can't (and won't) substantiate any of this. I see no evidence of any of the following:

1. The gameplay was not a major focus of praise the game was receiving, either from the media or the forum (N.B. I just read all of the review summaries on the Metacritic).

Please explain what it means for "gameplay to be hardly extrapolated".

2. Please prove the AI was nerfed. I've asked two other posters to do this in the past and they have both backed off the claim when pressed. I'd love to see you actually demonstrate this as being true.

Additionally, the AI observing your partners and entering an alert status would have been bad game design. That would have been incredibly frustrating and would have punished players for behaviors outside of their control.

3. Please prove that gamers were talking about the reveal gameplay after the actual game was out and/or continue to do so.

The scene in that original reveal is one of the more linear (that is, rectangular) setpieces in the game. The player is just with one companion (as opposed to three) who stays hidden at all times. Ellie does this in that location in the final product. It is not analogous to some of the other environments throughout the game where Joel is accompanied by two or more AI partners that are actively moving through larger environments.

You can't just say stuff like this and expect it to go unchallenged, particularly when you argue, as you have, that it is a merely "competent" game. Talk about damning with faint praise.

The point is that neither of you have hit anything on the head except for squarely codifying your perception of an incredible amount of praise as oriented in a particular fashion or angled in a particular way. Look at Neff's quote: "...the zealous praise for this game doesn't seem terribly steeped in the gameplay..." Sure, if you don't want it to be the case. This is called confirmation bias. Sorry, it's demonstrably false.

 

[Cave Johnson]

Enimies being able to detect your partners would have broken the game.

I thought the gameplay was fucking awesome myself.

In what way would the game break? The moment you make yourself known, the enemy can target your partners which, by your logic would make it impossible to progress. Having a partner detected lets more enemies distracted giving you the chance to flank. Unless the enemy kills your partner immediately (which we have observed otherwise). It works in multiplayer and a myriad of tactical games, but suddenly it won't work here?

Complete nonsense.

The game is, beyond the story, frequently praised for its incredible multiplayer.

This attempt at twisting and turning this game into generic AAA pap is complete insanity.

Take a look at games like F.E.A.R. which is notably known for its relentless and AI. That is the main focus and discussion everytime the game is brought up. This is not the case for the last of us. Only a few reviews only talk about the AI, everyone else treated it like a re-evaluation of ND"s formula through their reviews.

 

[maneil99]

You can't (and won't) substantiate any of this. I see no evidence of any of the following:

1. The gameplay was not a major focus of praise the game was receiving, either from the media or the forum (N.B. I just read all of the review summaries on the Metacritic).

Please explain what it means for "gameplay to be hardly extrapolated".

2. Please prove the AI was nerfed. I've asked two other posters to do this in the past and they have both backed off the claim when pressed. I'd love to see you actually demonstrate this as being true.

Additionally, the AI observing your partners and entering an alert status would have been bad game design. That would have been incredibly frustrating and would have punished players for behaviors outside of their control.

3. Please prove that gamers were talking about the reveal gameplay after the actual game was out and/or continue to do so.

The scene in that original reveal is one of the more linear (that is, rectangular) setpieces in the game. The player is just with one companion (as opposed to three) who stays hidden at all times. Ellie does this in that location in the final product. It is not analogous to some of the other environments throughout the game where Joel is accompanied by two or more AI partners that are actively moving through larger environments.

You can't just say stuff like this and expect it to go unchallenged, particularly when you argue, as you have, that it is a merely "competent" game. Talk about damning with faint praise.

In what way would the game break? The moment you make yourself known, the enemy can target your partners which, by your logic would make it impossible to progress. Far from it. Having a partner detected lets more enemies focus on them giving you the chance to flank. It works in multiplayer and a myriad of tactical games, but suddenly it won't work here?

Nobody wants to baby sit an AI, and he was referring to the fact that trying to be stealthy and the AI noticing Ellie or Tess and going into high alert

 

[QaaQer]

It doesn't have to be (although ideally it is), but the zealous praise for this game doesn't seem terribly steeped in the gameplay, which seems both odd and interesting considering that, well, it is a game.

I probably wasn't as clear with my original post (which was more a criticism of 'look how many awards this shit got'). I think this game more than any is representative of a shift towards narrative over what we traditionally term gameplay. People are backing this game because it's breaking new ground, and that's exciting to many. But it's not breaking new ground in gameplay, at all. Is that worth singing and dancing about? For fans of 'gaming' as a flexible, interactive storytelling medium, maybe. For gamers? Not really.

If you look at the industry as being entertainment software (and that's what these companies call their products), then yes it is, no maybe about it. High audience engagement is the goal, and this game pulled that off in spades.

If you are using some abstract academic definition of the game part of videogame, and judging it on that criteria, then I don't know what to tell you except you wont be happy with any big budget retail game. You should just ignore them all.

Personally, I appreciate the world the way it is. I don't gnash my loins because things aren't exactly they way I want them. Was TLOU a watershed game? Probably not. But it was great and it was made for people over 20 who like single player games, which is pretty rare today.

 

[Y2Kev]

Take a look at games like F.E.A.R. which is notably known for its relentless and AI. That is the main focus and discussion everytime the game is brought up. This is not the case for the last of us. Only a few reviews only talk about the AI, everyone else treated it like a re-evaluation of ND"s formula through their reviews.

Because every other part of FEAR is shit. It is the only positive thing to talk about with FEAR. How can you compare these two games?

 

[Neff]

You're cherry picking praise from a crowd (or yet an image posted) of many to justify your criticism for the games lack of innovation.

I don't personally agree with you, yet I understand your side of the argument.

But you should also understand that you sound like an ass when you talk down to people from your "gamers" high horse.

Let's assert that when I say something like 'gamers', I'm talking about those who relish a traditional approach to moving games forward via mechanics and ideas, rather than attempting to divide 'worthy' or 'unworthy' cliques, because people are going to jump at the chance to get angry about that.

 

[Loakum]

So...let me get this straight....if you like a game before it's released, you're "buying into the game's pre-released hype."

If you like a game after it's released, and it wins numreous awards, "you're falling for the herd mentality."

Who makes these rules?

 

[antitrop]

But it was great and it was made for people over 20 who like single player games, which is pretty rare today.

Wolfenstein: The New Order plug. Starbreeze knew how to take their time and craft a fine singleplayer campaign and MachineGames carries on that legacy. Exceptional gameplay with an interesting story and compelling characters.

 

[Magwik]

So...let me get this straight....if you like a game before it's released, you're "buying into the game's pre-released hype."

If you like a game after it's released, and it wins numreous awards, "you're falling for the herd mentality."

Who makes these rules?

Idiots.

 

[Y2Kev]

Let's assert that when I say something like 'gamers', I'm talking about those who relish a traditional approach to moving games forward via mechanics and ideas, rather than attempting to divide 'worthy' or 'unworthy' cliques, because people are going to jump at the chance to get angry about that.

You can't help yourself, can you? How is this not a true Scotsman argument?

 

[QaaQer]

Wolfenstein: The New Order plug. Starbreeze knew how to take their time and craft a fine singleplayer campaign and MachineGames carries on that legacy. Exceptional gameplay with an interesting story and compelling characters.

It's on my list.

Hard to believe that IP has been around for 30 years.

 

[Resilient]

There's definitely a sense of other people's endorsement and herd mentality backing up this game.

It's a slice of fashionable melodrama unique and relatively novel to gaming for many, It was a mediocre movie which required button presses to sustain for everyone else.

Dafuq did I just read?

My brain refused to read past the first few words of the second sentence JESUS CHRIST what was that

 

[GQman2121]

Let's assert that when I say something like 'gamers', I'm talking about those who relish a traditional approach to moving games forward via mechanics and ideas, rather than attempting to divide 'worthy' or 'unworthy' cliques, because people are going to jump at the chance to get angry about that.

Let's not.

It's far easier to conclude that you're just another one of those people online that are just too cool for school.

 

[LookAtMeGo]

Let's assert that when I say something like 'gamers', I'm talking about those who relish a traditional approach to moving games forward via mechanics and ideas, rather than attempting to divide 'worthy' or 'unworthy' cliques, because people are going to jump at the chance to get angry about that.

For the love of god!

 

[hawk2025]

Let's assert that when I say something like 'gamers', I'm talking about those who relish a traditional approach to moving games forward via mechanics and ideas, rather than attempting to divide 'worthy' or 'unworthy' cliques, because people are going to jump at the chance to get angry about that.

Dear God.

 

[TetraGenesis]

He completely bailed out of the other thread once ND confirmed 60fps. He's just FUDing with nothing to back it up.

Oh I know, but he had the hall to come in here and spread it again after the fact. I want to encourage him to bail every other TLOU thread I see him in.

 

[RefigeKru]

How can there be any 'traditional' approach to progression within a medium?

Sounds awfully conservative and restrictive if you ask me.

 

[Nightengale]

So...let me get this straight....if you like a game before it's released, you're "buying into the game's pre-released hype."

If you like a game after it's released, and it wins numreous awards, "you're falling for the herd mentality."

Who makes these rules?

Idiots.

 

[Loakum]

Idiots.

basically. I think folks are becoming to cynical these days. We're gamers. It's nothing wrong with enjoying games. lol

lol, nice!

 

[jon bones]

just got my day 1 deliver pre order in for amazon

can't wait to replay this & dive into some MP

It doesn't have to be (although ideally it is), but the zealous praise for this game doesn't seem terribly steeped in the gameplay, which seems both odd and interesting considering that, well, it is a game.

I probably wasn't as clear with my original post (which was more a criticism of 'look how many awards this shit got'). I think this game more than any is representative of a shift towards narrative over what we traditionally term gameplay. People are backing this game because it's breaking new ground, and that's exciting to many. But it's not breaking new ground in gameplay, at all. Is that worth singing and dancing about? For fans of 'gaming' as a flexible, interactive storytelling medium, maybe. For gamers? Not really.

Let's assert that when I say something like 'gamers', I'm talking about those who relish a traditional approach to moving games forward via mechanics and ideas, rather than attempting to divide 'worthy' or 'unworthy' cliques, because people are going to jump at the chance to get angry about that.

ahhhahahahaha

#REALgamers amirite

 

[Neff]

You can't help yourself, can you? How is this not a true Scotsman argument?

People prioritise different things. Whether anyone considers themselves a 'true gamer' or not is irrelevant to me or anyone else, or the people making these games when they sell as much as they do.

All of which is waaaay off topic, but my view stands- TLoU's success is primarily derived from well-executed, fashionably bleak storytelling, capitalising on a narrative-oriented paradigm shift. Little of it is attributable to its gameplay.

Let's not.

It's far easier to conclude that you're just another one of those people online that are just too cool for school.

This is kind of what I'm talking about.

 

[Darknight]

Based Y2Kev!

I agree in that ND made the right choice to make your partner to be near invisible and thats not to punish the players. There is a point where this happened, where the buddy AI managed to get seen by the enemy and it pissed me off since "we" were supposed to go in all stealthy. Everything went to shit immediately. Thank the heavens ND made Ellie near invisible to them.

Also she does that knife support attack once in a while so what we saw from the reveal is pretty much there. I think if ND made the AI more aggressive, the game would get too hard. That basement part did get hairy since you get flanked in there though.

 

[Ottoni_Bastos]

PC Gaming and Nintendo. What the fuck happened to this thread.

There is lot of PC/Nintendo/Xbox gamers with butthurt on internet because a PS3 exclusive won more awards than GTA and Mario 3D world.(games that usually stole all the awards)

They don't want to buy a PS4(because fanboys) so they can't accept that Playstation can have a good/better game than their machine of choice.

So they will try to find something to complain about the game.And when one of them find something(even if something not that important) the others will repeat this argument without even play the game by themselves.(and they will make it look worse than actually is)

They will turn a solid but not innovative TPS gameplay on a QTE fest/movie/you don't need to play just watch situation.

They will turn a good but not perfect AI in a dumb/useless/broken piece of shit.

 

[antitrop]

It's on my list.

Hard to believe that IP has been around for 30 years.

Wolfenstein: TNO is a great example of what you get when a talented developer has a very clear vision for the kind of game that they want to make. And when they are blessed with a publisher that gives them the budget and time that they need to make it work. It was made a veteran team of ~50 over about 3 years with no development hell or major obstructions. They just sat in cold-ass Sweden, quietly making a kickass game.

We need more games like it, in these days of annualized franchises.

 

[mollipen]

Because TLOU was one of the most incredible achievements in history of gaming?

...wait, I'm confused. We (EGM) didn't give it 10/10. Is this just like a joke image?

 

[RoboPlato]

Wolfenstein: TNO is a great example of what you get when a talented developer has a very clear vision for the kind of game that they want to make. And when they are blessed with a publisher that gives them the budget and time that they need to make it work. It was made a veteran team of 50 over about 3 years.

We need more games like it, in these days of annualized franchises.

Preach

I loved that game and want more smaller devs that are talented and passionate for an IP get the chance to step up and make a great game that plays to their and the IP's strengths.

 

[LookAtMeGo]

...wait, I'm confused. We (EGM) didn't give it 10/10. Is this just like a joke image?

Blasphemy!

Spoiler

thats odd..