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[Sera O]

I beat CS1 in 75 hours. I've played CS2 for like 11 hours now and nothing has happened at all.

Yeah that's how I felt too. I was expecting them to take more advantage of that crazy ending and momentum from CS1. Instead, feels incredibly slow. It's just very unexciting. (vague spoilers for stuff evident by the time you get to Celdic)

Spoiler

It's weird there is zero risk of anyone even recognizing Rean et al on their jaunty quest to have boring reunions with everyone they ever met. I mean I would have liked for them to try to convey some danger. Maybe try to disguise themselves, or have more sneakiness, have someone get caught... whatever. I don't know.

 

[Nightengale]

Not even that level-headed, lol

I don't want to give the impression that he's like Naruto or Natsu.

 

[Shouta]

I don't want to give the impression that he's like Naruto or Natsu.

Those two are crazy though.

 

[duckroll]

Yeah that's how I felt too. I was expecting them to take more advantage of that crazy ending and momentum from CS1. Instead, feels incredibly slow. It's just very unexciting. (vague spoilers for stuff evident by the time you get to Celdic)

Spoiler

It's weird there is zero risk of anyone even recognizing Rean et al on their jaunty quest to have boring reunions with everyone they ever met. I mean I would have liked for them to try to convey some danger. Maybe try to disguise themselves, or have more sneakiness, have someone get caught... whatever. I don't know.

I'm early on in Nord now, but based on my 11 hours of the game so far, here's what I would have changed in the structure of CS2:

Spoiler

- After the prologue, when Valimar scans for the rest of Class VII, Toval should update Rean on the situation in all three regions. All the regions should be under some sort of ongoing threat, and the player gets to choose which order to travel to.

- When you get to each region, instead of leisurely going around gathering information, it should be straight out war. Towns will be under control of the Noble Alliance, all previously safe areas are now battlefields, and you have to get in contact with the resistance in that area, reunite with your classmates in that region this way, and then siege the town with Valimar to liberate it.

- Once towns are liberated, you get a couple of quests to help the townsfolk resettle and establish a foothole in the region. Break some blockades, reopen supply routes, etc. This will free up movement along the highways to get to the main objective of that region.

- Doing this will make the game much more exciting right from the start, and create a sense that you are making an immediate difference in the war once Rean returns to the equation, highlighting how powerful Valimar really is. Letting the player choose which region to tackle in what order also makes each location feel equally important, instead of it being a linear pick-up-the-pieces snoozefest.

 

[Taruranto]

Honestly, chapter 1 of Cold Steel 1 is basically a giant prologue more than anything. I'd say the game doesn't really start until Chapter 2. :/

As for the CS2-SC comparisons: Yeah, I totally agree that SC does pretty much everything (Minus the battle system and and some gameplay systems) better. The main story is better, the characters are better, Ouroborus plot is more satisfying. Even the villains are better and I wasn't really a fan of SC Enforcers with their "Naruto-tier backstory" time during the

Spoiler

towers.

I do like Vita more than

Spoiler

Weissman,

tho'.

 

[Aeana]

It's always amazing to me to see people's impressions of things being the exact opposite of mine. The specific thing I loved about CS2 when I played it was refreshingly low on downtime compared to CS1's formulaic "social time -> school house -> field exercise -> finally cool thing -> repeat" approach. Before CS1 came around, SC was actually the biggest offender of that kind of formula for me which is why it took me two tries to get through it back when it originally came out in 2006.

 

[duckroll]

It's always amazing to me to see people's impressions of things being the exact opposite of mine. The specific thing I loved about CS2 when I played it was refreshingly low on downtime compared to CS1's formulaic "social time -> school house -> field exercise -> finally cool thing -> repeat" approach. Before CS1 came around, SC was actually the biggest offender of that kind of formula for me which is why it took me two tries to get through it back when it originally came out in 2006.

But it's not. It's the same downtime just framed in a different way. Absolutely NOTHING has happened in 11 hours so far. From the moment you teleport into the park after the prologue it is...

field exercise -> shrine -> finally cool thing -> social time -> repeat

 

[Aeana]

But it's not. It's the same downtime just framed in a different way. Absolutely NOTHING has happened in 11 hours so far. From the moment you teleport into the park after the prologue it is...

field exercise -> shrine -> finally cool thing -> social time -> repeat

It doesn't feel the same. The game is structured in a fundamentally different way, especially in the second half.
Losing the school stuff certainly helped in my case though.

 

[ShadowSoldier89]

act 1 does follow the CS1 formula, but it does it a lot faster since you dont really have two large quest lists like you did in CS1. what wouldve been the school time in CS1 is much shorter. Act 2 is much differently paced, and the social times show up at much less obvious points

 

[Lindsay]

Is this last-ish battle supposed ta be some kind of sick joke? Time to use the lower difficulty feature cause this is just stupid.

 

[Basileus777]

I found Act 2 to be worse then it comes to being formulaic than Act 1.

 

[duckroll]

It doesn't feel the same. The game is structured in a fundamentally different way, especially in the second half.
Losing the school stuff certainly helped in my case though.

Whatever the second half is, is the second half. It's a gazillion hours away. I'm talking about what I'm playing and honestly it feels EXACTLY the same, except it's worse because there isn't a good narrative reason for it to feel the same. That's annoying.

You go to a place. There is a town and highways. You talk to every NPC in the area to learn about what's happening. You get some quests which are a mix of killing a highway monster and helping some NPC with a mundane task. You then proceed to a dungeon or boss location.

Along the way there is an optional shrine which is just like the Old Schoolhouse. It's a 1-2 floor dungeon with a random boss monster at the end. It feels totally disconnected from the rest of the game, and characters even comment on how it is optional, that there is no need to be there, and that it wasn't even there before.

Then you get to the story dungeon or boss point, and a bunch of cutscenes happen. Falcom spams itshappening.gif a few times and you get a little excited.

After that you talk to a bunch of NPCs again before returning back to home base, and you get to hang around and use bonding events on characters before returning to your room. Doing so will move you on to the next location where you presumably do the exact same thing again.

 

[Sera O]

I'm early on in Nord now, but based on my 11 hours of the game so far, here's what I would have changed in the structure of CS2:

Spoiler

- After the prologue, when Valimar scans for the rest of Class VII, Toval should update Rean on the situation in all three regions. All the regions should be under some sort of ongoing threat, and the player gets to choose which order to travel to.

- When you get to each region, instead of leisurely going around gathering information, it should be straight out war. Towns will be under control of the Noble Alliance, all previously safe areas are now battlefields, and you have to get in contact with the resistance in that area, reunite with your classmates in that region this way, and then siege the town with Valimar to liberate it.

- Once towns are liberated, you get a couple of quests to help the townsfolk resettle and establish a foothole in the region. Break some blockades, reopen supply routes, etc. This will free up movement along the highways to get to the main objective of that region.

- Doing this will make the game much more exciting right from the start, and create a sense that you are making an immediate difference in the war once Rean returns to the equation, highlighting how powerful Valimar really is. Letting the player choose which region to tackle in what order also makes each location feel equally important, instead of it being a linear pick-up-the-pieces snoozefest.

All of that sounds like a big improvement and way more exciting than what we got. The situation just never felt as chaotic as it should have, given (just general spoilers for the way things start out in CS2)

Spoiler

there has been a whole month for a civil war to be completely reshaping places you had been. I wanted to see more impact from that, some damage to places other than Garrelia. It would also have been cool to have encounters with the Courageous, but only once you'd made enough progress in an area for them to be able to land there safely, and you could gain some more intel that way.

It was also hard to buy how much Rean needed to reunite with everyone so badly once Valimar established that they were all doing fine, because at that point I would expect him to sort of sit down with adults and strategize rather than take this casual road trip through earth veins.

I was excited about the wartime scenario when things started to blow up in CS1, but it ended up being surprisingly toothless. Like, the biggest impact on people who are not directly involved in the conflict is

Spoiler

the trains aren't running, and soldiers are annoying them by taking their stuff and hassling girls.

 

[Aeana]

Whatever the second half is, is the second half. It's a gazillion hours away. I'm talking about what I'm playing and honestly it feels EXACTLY the same, except it's worse because there isn't a good narrative reason for it to feel the same. That's annoying.

You go to a place. There is a town and highways. You talk to every NPC in the area to learn about what's happening. You get some quests which are a mix of killing a highway monster and helping some NPC with a mundane task. You then proceed to a dungeon or boss location.

Along the way there is an optional shrine which is just like the Old Schoolhouse. It's a 1-2 floor dungeon with a random boss monster at the end. It feels totally disconnected from the rest of the game, and characters even comment on how it is optional, that there is no need to be there, and that it wasn't even there before.

Then you get to the story dungeon or boss point, and a bunch of cutscenes happen. Falcom spams itshappening.gif a few times and you get a little excited.

After that you talk to a bunch of NPCs again before returning back to home base, and you get to hang around and use bonding events on characters before returning to your room. Doing so will move you on to the next location where you presumably do the exact same thing again.

Well, I guess it's all a matter of perspective. Depending on which specific things bother you, it becomes easier to draw parallels to things you don't like. In my case, CS2 felt continually more exciting and had fewer parts that made me want to walk away than CS1 did. Falcom is never going to drop the formula entirely again -- 3rd remains the only truly unique game in the series -- but at least in CS2 I felt that the way they dressed things was much more appealing. Plus as I said, the back half of the game feels much more different, and I admit that my longstanding impressions of a game I played two years ago are more colored by that than the beginning of the game.

Also, how can the shrines be exactly like the old schoolhouse when they're optional? I think that's a pretty important point to gloss over. FC had optional towers too.

 

[duckroll]

Well, I guess it's all a matter of perspective. Depending on which specific things bother you, it becomes easier to draw parallels to things you don't like. In my case, CS2 felt continually more exciting and had fewer parts that made me want to walk away than CS1 did. Falcom is never going to drop the formula entirely again -- 3rd remains the only truly unique game in the series -- but at least in CS2 I felt that the way they dressed things was much more appealing. Plus as I said, the back half of the game feels much more different, and I admit that my longstanding impressions of a game I played two years ago are more colored by that than the beginning of the game.

Also, how can the shrines be exactly like the old schoolhouse when they're optional? I think that's a pretty important point to gloss over. FC had optional towers too.

It's hard to get excited for anything in CS2 when it feels like the game is constantly trolling me though. For someone whose party was Rean/Laura/Fie/Emma for almost the entire game whenever possible, here's what it feels like:

"Oh look Valimar found my classmates! Some of them are in Legram! Based on the opening video, Laura and Emma must be there! Let's gooooo!"

Rean says "Where should we go first?"

"YESSS CAN'T WAIT TO PICK LEGRAM!"

Ream says "Fuck it, let's go to Celdic."

"NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!"

Srsly...

------

While being "optional" makes the Shrines "different" from the Schoolhouse from a choice perspective, I don't think any serious player is going to skip them. You get a bunch of AP for beating it, you get more foreshadowing in the plot, and there is some really good loot in the first one. It's like giving a player a right choice and a wrong choice and saying it is optional to pick the right choice. Lol. FYI, I hated the towers in FC and SC too. Worst parts of the games.

 

[ShadowSoldier89]

I consider chapter 7 in SC to be the worst section in all the trails games ive played...

optional shrines arent bad in comparison, though I agree they dont feel optional to most players

 

[Shouta]

Well, I guess it's all a matter of perspective. Depending on which specific things bother you, it becomes easier to draw parallels to things you don't like. In my case, CS2 felt continually more exciting and had fewer parts that made me want to walk away than CS1 did. Falcom is never going to drop the formula entirely again -- 3rd remains the only truly unique game in the series -- but at least in CS2 I felt that the way they dressed things was much more appealing. Plus as I said, the back half of the game feels much more different, and I admit that my longstanding impressions of a game I played two years ago are more colored by that than the beginning of the game.

Also, how can the shrines be exactly like the old schoolhouse when they're optional? I think that's a pretty important point to gloss over. FC had optional towers too.

3rd isn't all that unique though. It's a slightly different formula but equally, if not more, ridged formula when compared to the other games. It ultimately matters whether or not you're enjoying the content and what bothers you as you say.

CS2 is the only game in the series to really give the player a bit of everything its overall flow. That's part of the reason I found it extremely enjoyable despite the problems I have with it.

 

[Scrooge McDuck]

Okay so geographically... Parm should be south of Legram, somewhere across the lake right? Saint-Arkh would be somewhere in southwest Erebonia? Byronia is just far west of Heimdallr yes? Jurai iirc was said to be in the northwest corner of Erebonia. Where is Ordis? Maybe somewhere between Byronia and Jurai?

There's no full map of Erebonia yet so these are good guesses, I think. If I had the inclination, maybe I'd reload my many saves to read what Group B exactly said about the routes and stuff.

All this light novel talk has made me realize I've been out of the anime scene for a long time. "Light novel" makes me think of a shorter novella, or a light read. Apparently it's self-insert romance. The more you know

Spoiler

what to avoid

"Light novels" are pretty much young adult books. It could cover anything, really, but for some reason nowadays it's plagued with self-insert romance.

All of that sounds like a big improvement and way more exciting than what we got. The situation just never felt as chaotic as it should have, given (just general spoilers for the way things start out in CS2)

Spoiler

there has been a whole month for a civil war to be completely reshaping places you had been. I wanted to see more impact from that, some damage to places other than Garrelia. It would also have been cool to have encounters with the Courageous, but only once you'd made enough progress in an area for them to be able to land there safely, and you could gain some more intel that way.

It was also hard to buy how much Rean needed to reunite with everyone so badly once Valimar established that they were all doing fine, because at that point I would expect him to sort of sit down with adults and strategize rather than take this casual road trip through earth veins.

I was excited about the wartime scenario when things started to blow up in CS1, but it ended up being surprisingly toothless. Like, the biggest impact on people who are not directly involved in the conflict is

Spoiler

the trains aren't running, and soldiers are annoying them by taking their stuff and hassling girls.

A disappointment of mine was when the game kinda paints [Act 1 Part 1]

Spoiler

Machias/Elliot/Fie as a resistance cell in hiding and it turns out that they're just "investigating how to get to Garellia Fortress". That's what you're doing for a month? The whole separated-and-reunited-again plot feels like a giant time waster that's there to bolster contents cut from the first game Finale into a full game.

 

[Jeffrey]

you know... has any kiseki game bothered explaining what 'artes' are in the sense of with how powerful they look in battle, why aren't they used to solve every day problems?

when you can cause earthquakes, summon death, cause a tornado etc.

I mean its your usual rpg battle/real world disconnect, but for a series that is overly wordy about lore, you'd think there would be some mention about this somewhere.

 

[duckroll]

A disappointment of mine was when the game kinda paints [Act 1 Part 1]

Spoiler

Machias/Elliot/Fie as a resistance cell in hiding and it turns out that they're just "investigating how to get to Garellia Fortress". That's what you're doing for a month? The whole separated-and-reunited-again plot feels like a giant time waster that's there to bolster contents cut from the first game Finale into a full game.

Yesssssssssssss.

Spoiler

The entire segment would be so much more exciting if it was about the resistance cell being the main reason why Celdic wasn't taken over by the Alliance completely yet, but now they're at a breaking point because Elliot got captured and is being used as a hostage against his father. They should have Machias and Fie embarking on a rescue operation at the Twin Dragon Gate, and Rean joins in. After saving him, they should return and liberate Celdic before heading to the fortress.

 

[YankeeDonB]

Well, I guess it's all a matter of perspective. Depending on which specific things bother you, it becomes easier to draw parallels to things you don't like. In my case, CS2 felt continually more exciting and had fewer parts that made me want to walk away than CS1 did. Falcom is never going to drop the formula entirely again -- 3rd remains the only truly unique game in the series -- but at least in CS2 I felt that the way they dressed things was much more appealing. Plus as I said, the back half of the game feels much more different, and I admit that my longstanding impressions of a game I played two years ago are more colored by that than the beginning of the game.

Also, how can the shrines be exactly like the old schoolhouse when they're optional? I think that's a pretty important point to gloss over. FC had optional towers too.

I cannot think of one remotely exciting thing that's happened in the ten hours I've played. But I can certainly understand the back half of the game would resonate more in memory.

This feels like a real thumb in the eye when the setup was so potentially exciting. The plotting is just abysmal so far. Even meeting classmates again, it's set up like Rean thinks it's such a huge deal, but not that much time has passed, and he already know they're alright. There's nothing about the reintroduction (at least with the first group) that feels impactful. Nothing has changed. They're not doing anything interesting or meaningful. Their orientation toward the world, each other, and Rean hasn't changed, and the duration apart and stakes aren't enough to justify the surfeit of reunion feels. It's just like Falcom said "we're taking your toys away... OK, now you can have them back!" The level of narrative sophistication so far is literally on par with the weird stories my 3 year old auto generates when playing with her dolls.

Yesssssssssssss.

Spoiler

The entire segment would be so much more exciting if it was about the resistance cell being the main reason why Celdic wasn't taken over by the Alliance completely yet, but now they're at a breaking point because Elliot got captured and is being used as a hostage against his father. They should have Machias and Fie embarking on a rescue operation at the Twin Dragon Gate, and Rean joins in. After saving him, they should return and liberate Celdic before heading to the fortress.

Exactly, about 100 times better. It's not that hard to come up with this stuff.

 

[OniBarubary]

For some reason I am SUPER oblivious to plot twists so when C was revealed as Crow my legit reaction was "No way!" mainly cause I never used him and kinda ignored his existence.

I'm good like that. You throw obvious plot twists at me and I'll be the dude in the theater who drops his popcorn.

 

[preta]

Whether or not you think Rean is a bland or generic character, I highly recommend reading this post on the XSEED forums. It's a great read, and the best analysis of his character I've seen.

 

[Soriku]

I agree that CS2 is kind of slow and your enjoyment depends on how you deal with slow parts (quests, bonding, gathering NPCs, background political stuff etc.) in between the more exciting infiltration/rescue missions, which the game has a number of, and villain appearances.

I think the payoff is good though because of some ending scenes and revelations. I haven't finished the game completely yet, but so far Cold Steel 3 has an interesting set up. I just want it to be tighter than CS2, which I was expecting to be really tight but...wasn't.

 

[Nyoro SF]

you know... has any kiseki game bothered explaining what 'artes' are in the sense of with how powerful they look in battle, why aren't they used to solve every day problems?

when you can cause earthquakes, summon death, cause a tornado etc.

I mean its your usual rpg battle/real world disconnect, but for a series that is overly wordy about lore, you'd think there would be some mention about this somewhere.

My guess; combat orbments are only available to high rank soldiers and bracers (and testers and policemen). Higher level quartz are really expensive for an average citizen and no one wants to waste money or sepith on a quartz they can't use because they don't have an orbment, so they'd rather rely on quartz that powers appliances and vehicles, and said quartz essentially offers limitless clean energy so everyone's already happy with that. Legal quartz.

Due to art destructive power and potential for deadly friendly fire it's likely only the sergeants and higher of an army can have one, which explains why Cid has an orbment and uses it in the training against you, but the regular foot soldiers and platoon leaders do not.

Now as for why the villains don't use Arts for more destructive purposes... well, if you watch SC, you see the villains are so strong they don't need to waste time casting an Art they could get hit out of, they're just powerful enough by themselves. Though of course I do remember one major villain in FC casting arts, Silver Thorn and Tier... I don't recall if any major villains in SC cast Arts. Never felt necessary given how freakishly strong they are.

How's that for a explanation of in-universe fiction...

 

[duckroll]

I think the payoff is good though because of some ending scenes and revelations. I haven't finished the game completely yet, but so far Cold Steel 3 has an interesting set up. I just want it to be tighter than CS2, which I was expecting to be really tight but...wasn't.

Could replace CS3 with CS2 and CS2 with CS1 and this would describe CS1 to a T too. Lol.

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

All of that sounds like a big improvement and way more exciting than what we got. The situation just never felt as chaotic as it should have, given (just general spoilers for the way things start out in CS2)

Spoiler

there has been a whole month for a civil war to be completely reshaping places you had been. I wanted to see more impact from that, some damage to places other than Garrelia. It would also have been cool to have encounters with the Courageous, but only once you'd made enough progress in an area for them to be able to land there safely, and you could gain some more intel that way.

It was also hard to buy how much Rean needed to reunite with everyone so badly once Valimar established that they were all doing fine, because at that point I would expect him to sort of sit down with adults and strategize rather than take this casual road trip through earth veins.

I was excited about the wartime scenario when things started to blow up in CS1, but it ended up being surprisingly toothless. Like, the biggest impact on people who are not directly involved in the conflict is

Spoiler

the trains aren't running, and soldiers are annoying them by taking their stuff and hassling girls.

CS2 endgame spoily stuff:

Spoiler

One of the reasons I keep harping on Rean's "vacation" in Act 2 is his behavior in the prologue and Act 1. He goes from morose and snappish to steadily more and more confident, authoritarian as the new normal of being detached from the "third pillar's" leadership of Oliviert and company and him having A COOL MECH at his disposal sinks in to his decisions and words. The meeting with Gen. Craig at that HQ shows this off nicely with Rean flatly stating they're not staying by there to break thru the battlelines between there and the Two Dragons Bridge and they're going after the other 6 friends instead was telling. This is even though Elliot wanted to go there explicitly to help his dad in lieu of any other plan and Rean agreed with it as Val hadn't recharged yet. He's more or less the defacto "leader" when it comes to Class VII and isn't even going to be at the request of the headless Ironblood faction. Add in Oliviert pulling an Oliviert and leaving him, Towa, the princess, and Sara in command of the valuable flagship and the entire eastern theater (with Sara for a long while the ONLY adult aboard) and it's a great setup for Rean "I Get To Throw My Ego Around So Kiss My Mech" Schwarzer.

This also gives events later on (once Ozzy starts manipulating his dear boy) and the fact Ozzy still lives AND is over a reunited empire even more meaning.

That's what makes his Act 2 "friendsfriendsfriends CrowCrowCrow" ego-less behavior so disappointing. He just takes a breather until he's needed to change from the flow of plot once more in the endgame. They were GOING somewhere. Somewhere good and then pulled a Nixon Tapes with his characterization.

And the thing is, the areas you are in are completely pacified short of the 3rd and the 4th (and that's only due to Zechs and Craig's great leadership/tank-riding acumen).

But yeah, other than pulling punches a few times too much, I like the flow of the game. My clear time was 95 hours and I don't know if that was because I mainlined it in bursts over a couple weeks but it definately sped by for me. /shrug

My guess; combat orbments are only available to high rank soldiers and bracers (and testers and policemen). Higher level quartz are really expensive for an average citizen and no one wants to waste money or sepith on a quartz they can't use because they don't have an orbment, so they'd rather rely on quartz that powers appliances and vehicles, and said quartz essentially offers limitless clean energy so everyone's already happy with that. Legal quartz.

Due to art destructive power and potential for deadly friendly fire it's likely only the sergeants and higher of an army can have one, which explains why Cid has an orbment and uses it in the training against you, but the regular foot soldiers and platoon leaders do not.

Now as for why the villains don't use Arts for more destructive purposes... well, if you watch SC, you see the villains are so strong they don't need to waste time casting an Art they could get hit out of, they're just powerful enough by themselves. Though of course I do remember one major villain in FC casting arts, Silver Thorn and Tier... I don't recall if any major villains in SC cast Arts. Never felt necessary given how freakishly strong they are.

How's that for a explanation of in-universe fiction...

Enforcers figured out to run around with 200CP and CP restoring food at all times is what the deal is.

 

[Lindsay]

Umm... game? PS3? Ya okay? Still working? Is this the worlds longest loading time wait or??

edit! oh phew, there we go. still in business!

edit 2! uhhh whaaaattt??

 

[Jeffrey]

well you don't really see military folks use high lvl artes, heck the military at least in cold steel mostly just use teara and revive and buffs.

wonder how artes fair against tanks?

 

[Sera O]

Also, how can the shrines be exactly like the old schoolhouse when they're optional? I think that's a pretty important point to gloss over. FC had optional towers too.

Later on, isn't it necessary to go through them

Spoiler

to get ore for valimar's sword? Maybe when you first come across them they are optional, but it sure doesn't stay that way.

I just did them when I first found them, when the gear from the first section was still useful. If

Spoiler

upgrading the sword

is optional, I wish I'd skipped the slow ladder climbing and "puzzles" completely.

I guess it's true that you're not forced to do it in the intervals that you had to do the school house, like chores. That was a real momentum-killer. I agree with you that CS2 is better than CS1 for the most part structurally, but it also felt like it had way more potential to shake the formula up. I found CS1 was a real trial to get through a lot of the time and CS2 doesn't feel that different to me, so it's pretty faint praise in that sense. But I was so glad to not be in school!

A disappointment of mine was when the game kinda paints [Act 1 Part 1]

Spoiler

Machias/Elliot/Fie as a resistance cell in hiding and it turns out that they're just "investigating how to get to Garellia Fortress". That's what you're doing for a month? The whole separated-and-reunited-again plot feels like a giant time waster that's there to bolster contents cut from the first game Finale into a full game.

YES. This was a big wtf to me too. I absolutely had the same impression as you did about what they were doing in Celdic and then was bummed to find that, though class 7 is supposed to have learned to be all independent thinking problem solvers,

Spoiler

they do not actually accomplish anything of note while Rean is unconscious for a month

. Like, what. The non-Reans look even more pathetic in the late game when they start mentioning repeatedly that

Spoiler

everything has taken place in like a three week period, oh look how everyone has grown so much, etc.

 

[Soriku]

Could replace CS3 with CS2 and CS2 with CS1 and this would describe CS1 to a T too. Lol.

Yeah exactly. I hope CS3 is a big departure but I'm not sure.

 

[Aeana]

3rd isn't all that unique though. It's a slightly different formula but equally, if not more, ridged formula when compared to the other games. It ultimately matters whether or not you're enjoying the content and what bothers you as you say.

CS2 is the only game in the series to really give the player a bit of everything its overall flow. That's part of the reason I found it extremely enjoyable despite the problems I have with it.

3rd is absolutely unique within the series, I'm not sure how one could claim otherwise. Whether it has its own formula is not what was being discussed. But frankly, it's a dungeon crawler, so the formula is crawling dungeons. There's a ton of optional doors and then you go through a scenario. Those scenarios can be pretty unique too. Kiseki de Pon!

 

[SolVanderlyn]

Whether or not you think Rean is a bland or generic character, I highly recommend reading this post on the XSEED forums. It's a great read, and the best analysis of his character I've seen.

Great read, and I agree completely.

 

[jman2050]

Man it's funny reading all this because I totally ate up the first section of CS2 and was kind enamored with the whole thing, especially in comparison to how CS1 played out. I really didn't find it boring at all despite how rigid the progression was.

Maybe the year between when I finished CS1 and when I started CS2 plays a role there?

 

[preta]

Man it's funny reading all this because I totally ate up the first section of CS2 and was kind enamored with the whole thing, especially in comparison to how CS1 played out. I really didn't find it boring at all despite how rigid the progression was.

Maybe the year between when I finished CS1 and when I started CS2 plays a role there?

My main issue with SC was the rigid progression in the first half, but I didn't mind it at all in CS2, and I don't know why. It's making me want to replay SC - I think I'll probably appreciate it more now.

 

[Nyoro SF]

It's true that SC has a stiff gameplay cycle for the first four chapters, but the character scenes and battle moments were so great I didn't mind whatsoever.

Sheep Level 600%.

Estelle and Kloe girl talk in the auditorium.

Dream sequence. Orphanage reunite scene.

Chicks dig giant robots.

I could go on, but wrong thread. lol

 

[Korigama]

I'm early on in Nord now, but based on my 11 hours of the game so far, here's what I would have changed in the structure of CS2:

Spoiler

- After the prologue, when Valimar scans for the rest of Class VII, Toval should update Rean on the situation in all three regions. All the regions should be under some sort of ongoing threat, and the player gets to choose which order to travel to.

- When you get to each region, instead of leisurely going around gathering information, it should be straight out war. Towns will be under control of the Noble Alliance, all previously safe areas are now battlefields, and you have to get in contact with the resistance in that area, reunite with your classmates in that region this way, and then siege the town with Valimar to liberate it.

- Once towns are liberated, you get a couple of quests to help the townsfolk resettle and establish a foothole in the region. Break some blockades, reopen supply routes, etc. This will free up movement along the highways to get to the main objective of that region.

- Doing this will make the game much more exciting right from the start, and create a sense that you are making an immediate difference in the war once Rean returns to the equation, highlighting how powerful Valimar really is. Letting the player choose which region to tackle in what order also makes each location feel equally important, instead of it being a linear pick-up-the-pieces snoozefest.

All of that sounds like a big improvement and way more exciting than what we got. The situation just never felt as chaotic as it should have, given (just general spoilers for the way things start out in CS2)

Spoiler

there has been a whole month for a civil war to be completely reshaping places you had been. I wanted to see more impact from that, some damage to places other than Garrelia. It would also have been cool to have encounters with the Courageous, but only once you'd made enough progress in an area for them to be able to land there safely, and you could gain some more intel that way.

It was also hard to buy how much Rean needed to reunite with everyone so badly once Valimar established that they were all doing fine, because at that point I would expect him to sort of sit down with adults and strategize rather than take this casual road trip through earth veins.

I was excited about the wartime scenario when things started to blow up in CS1, but it ended up being surprisingly toothless. Like, the biggest impact on people who are not directly involved in the conflict is

Spoiler

the trains aren't running, and soldiers are annoying them by taking their stuff and hassling girls.

Pretty sure it was established (early CS II spoilers, early Act 1 to about end of Intermission)

Spoiler

that the real battlefield during the war is out in Western Erebonia, with things not being anywhere near as chaotic in Eastern Erebonia because the Noble Alliance largely has the regions under its control on lockdown

. As for the towns, (general Act 2 spoilers)

Spoiler

resettling civilians and establishing footholds comes about, but is ultimately left up to the Imperial Army and the Railway Military Police

.

As for this...

Yesssssssssssss.

Spoiler

The entire segment would be so much more exciting if it was about the resistance cell being the main reason why Celdic wasn't taken over by the Alliance completely yet, but now they're at a breaking point because Elliot got captured and is being used as a hostage against his father. They should have Machias and Fie embarking on a rescue operation at the Twin Dragon Gate, and Rean joins in. After saving him, they should return and liberate Celdic before heading to the fortress.

Exactly, about 100 times better. It's not that hard to come up with this stuff.

It's indeed a very interesting suggestion. I would just say to keep playing and bear with Act 1 taking its time to build things up again (I was fine with the early pacing myself, but of course YMMV). Without going into detail, I would say that Act 2 has more of the sort thing that you may have been hoping for based on the idea brought up there.

 

[Shouta]

3rd is absolutely unique within the series, I'm not sure how one could claim otherwise. Whether it has its own formula is not what was being discussed. But frankly, it's a dungeon crawler, so the formula is crawling dungeons. There's a ton of optional doors and then you go through a scenario. Those scenarios can be pretty unique too. Kiseki de Pon!

I didn't say it wasn't unique, just that it wasn't particularly unique. At its core, the game just folds everything into a two-part flow instead of dividing them up more like how it's usually done. It's the same flow they've used in parts of other Kiseki games except 3rd just uses it for the entire game. Personally, I don't think it's a big enough difference to matter, it ultimately is whether you enjoy the content or not. .

 

[Sera O]

Pretty sure it was established (early CS II spoilers, early Act 1 to about end of Intermission)

Spoiler

that the real battlefield during the war is out in Western Erebonia, with things not being anywhere near as chaotic in Eastern Erebonia because the Noble Alliance largely has the regions under its control on lockdown

. As for the towns, (general Act 2 spoilers)

Spoiler

resettling civilians and establishing footholds comes about, but is ultimately left up to the Imperial Army and the Railway Military Police

.

I'm not arguing that there isn't in-game explanation for it, I just find it really anticlimactic. After CS1's crazy ending, I just thought more would be going on at the start of CS2 besides (Act 1)

Spoiler

wandering the country assembling friends with zero sense of risk or drama, said friends seemingly having spent a month not really coming up with much to do

. I think there's a happy medium somewhere between

Spoiler

"elsewhere, a war is happening, but there is no resistance here anymore so here are some errands"

and being in the thick of every battle.

Even if there is actually not much resistance in the east, they do bring up repeatedly at the start of the game that

Spoiler

class 7 will be in trouble or captured if recognized

but there is basically no tension arising from it.

 

[BassForever]

How much you liked the cast and world of CS1 seems to impact how you feel about the opening third/half of CS2. Seeing how everyone has dealt with the ongoing war while Rean was KO is what carried me through the slower gameplay bits but I fan see how someone who doesn't care for Rean and Co would get frustrated with their reunion tour.

 

[Scrooge McDuck]

How much you liked the cast and world of CS1 seems to impact how you feel about the opening third/half of CS2. Seeing how everyone has dealt with the ongoing war while Rean was KO is what carried me through the slower gameplay bits but I fan see how someone who doesn't care for Rean and Co would get frustrated with their reunion tour.

I feel like it's the opposite for me. I actually like most of Class VII. My frustration was mainly because I expected much more from them. I expected more growth and initiative from them. I expected exciting scenarios that could accentuate those.

Spoiler

You're better than that, Jusis. Dang.

 

[duckroll]

I like most of Class VII. I totally want to see different perspectives of how they survived in the world while Rean was out, and what they were doing in the world. The problem was that they were doing jack shit. It seems that for a whole month, everyone in the school survived, not just Class VII, and they have been conveniently split up into locations I have visited before in the first game, and whatever is happening in those regions have all been stuck in a holding pattern for a whole month waiting for Rean the great savior to show up and reunite everyone so the state of the world can actually progress. That's the most boring and (negatively) predictable way you can proceed from the cliffhanger at the end of CS1.

 

[Soriku]

Man I love the piano motif from Decisive Collison present in Blue Destination and a few other tracks.

 

[Toadthemushroom]

I beat CS1 in 75 hours. I've played CS2 for like 11 hours now and nothing has happened at all.

Yeah that's how I felt too. I was expecting them to take more advantage of that crazy ending and momentum from CS1. Instead, feels incredibly slow. It's just very unexciting.

Same. I've been fatigued from too many RPGs this year so I ended up selling my copy of the game and I'll give it another go in November.

The prologue was painfully slow to play through and the retreading afterward didn't really excite me -- (re)traversing through some of these locations feels like an exercise in time wasting.

Of course you can apply these criticisms to a lot of games in the genre, which is why I'm, well, fatigued. Hopefully I'll feel more up for it in November, but at times it does feel like I'm only playing because of the amount of time I've invested into the series already, not because I'm actually really interested.

 

[Bebpo]

I think this is one of the situations where skipping Ao hurts CS2. Coming from Ao you know there's exciting stuff coming up in Erebonia and it keeps you motivated to see what happens. Otoh, it also creates expectations for certain things to happen and when they don't in CS2 that's also a major detriment that Ao brings. So there's pros & cons.

 

[Toadthemushroom]

Wonder what Elise thinks about me already making out with Alisa! Does she just move on from Rean at some point? Does she feel lifelong resentment? Does her negative energy end up razing Ymir to the ground? Will we ever know?

She knows.

 

[Soriku]

I think this is one of the situations where skipping Ao hurts CS2. Coming from Ao you know there's exciting stuff coming up in Erebonia and it keeps you motivated to see what happens. Otoh, it also creates expectations for certain things to happen and when they don't in CS2 that's also a major detriment that Ao brings. So there's pros & cons.

I'm finding the political stuff at the end of CS2 really exciting

Spoiler

after knowing the Osborne and Rufus twist, along with the occupation of Crossbell

. Playing Ao would give more context, but I'm very interested in the direction that Erebonia takes in CS3. Especially since it seems some of the fodder is out of the way.

 

[Young Magus]

I consistently hear it's one of the best JRPGs out there.

Possible minor, minor spoilers in the links provided. Names of characters that join you and such. The real spoilers are all tagged.

Flawless? Flawless. Even five years after its release.

...........yea.

I really need to level up my Japanese

Spoiler

and beat p5 asap

. I wanna play/

Spoiler

continue

the crossbell games soooooo bad ;-;.

 

[YankeeDonB]

It's indeed a very interesting suggestion. I would just say to keep playing and bear with Act 1 taking its time to build things up again (I was fine with the early pacing myself, but of course YMMV). Without going into detail, I would say that Act 2 has more of the sort thing that you may have been hoping for based on the idea brought up there.

Interesting - I'm looking forward to it!

 

[Nightengale]

There's definitely some amount of expectation management when it comes to the actualities of how things develops. I actually quite like the different execution myself.

Act 2 spoilers:

One important thing the story ultimately wants to reflect is that

Spoiler

even though Class VII is given all this utility, this story is ultimately not about a 3rd-faction that influences the war between Nobles and Reformist, but a story about students of a military academy that is choosing to forge their own path in a civil war, that by power of pure plot, pits them in events that liberates places from the Noble Alliance.

In that context, one could say it's a bit lame and ultimately paints a very juvenile perspective on the whole thing as the war is seen from the perspective of characters who are reinforcing their identity as

Spoiler

students first rather than take a position in the broader war

Ultimately, that part of the story

Spoiler

goes untold as it occurs off-screen in West Erebonia with Olivert and Victor's fights