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The Nerd Crew: A Pop Culture Podcast by Red Letter Media

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Collider/Schmoes discussed last night on their show about how they loved The Nerd Crew video.

https://youtu.be/lrYeQoA5n98?t=5m54s

The best part is there's a Loot Crate mention before the discussion. ;)

Fittingly enough they've become such fanboy robots that they can't even respond negatively to a direct attack on their character.

Yeah, that was weird. He says he loves them because they are "grouchy" fucks and that;s their thing. And, how he's never heard them talk good about any SW movie. I guess they missed their HiTB review in which they all really liked TFA. They were basically trying to undermine their opinion by not so subtly saying that they shouldn't be taken seriously.
 
This was hilarious until they started implying that taking fictional characters seriously is stupid.

When did they do that? I believe they were swatting down the argument that you could only understand "sacrifice" unless you saw it through fictional characters. In other words, the movie is worth it alone just to see the sacrifice needed to obtain the Death Star plans, as if such a sacrifice needed to be shown for us to understand it.
 

Schlorgan

Member
Yeah, that was weird. He says he loves them because they are "grouchy" fucks and that;s their thing. And, how he's never heard them talk good about any SW movie. I guess they missed their HiTB review in which they all really liked TFA. They were basically trying to undermine their opinion by not so subtly saying that they shouldn't be taken seriously.

They obviously haven't seen the Plinkett reviews where they talk really positively about the OT either.
 
This was hilarious until they started implying that taking fictional characters seriously is stupid.

I mean, it's one thing to take fictional characters seriously, but it's a whole 'nother can of worms when you can only empathize with movie characters and not real people.
 

Chumley

Banned
I mean, it's one thing to take fictional characters seriously, but it's a whole 'nother can of worms when you can only empathize with movie characters and not real people.

I mean, uh, yeah that would be a problem. But the impression I got is that they were just laughing at anyone who took fictional characters seriously.
 
I mean, uh, yeah that would be a problem. But the impression I got is that they were just laughing at anyone who took fictional characters seriously.

O c'mon. they wouldn't do that. If that's the case then all literary criticisms and studies are meaningless.
 
They can be as jaded about modern fan culture and current releases as much as they want as long as they keep making Best of the Worst.
 

AstroLad

Hail to the KING baby
It's seemed obvious that they were parodying people who only take characters seriously when they're in a "dark" film.

They were making fun of so much shit. Even took a jab at people defending movies on the basis that they're "supposed to be fun" and everything is just "nitpicking." Honestly RLM is just overall too negative and cynical for me most times but so many of these jokes landed well I liked it. :p
 

.JayZii

Banned
I loved the "What people don't understand is that this is a war movie" bit. I'd been hearing people throwing that around as some sort of weird preemptive defense. I wonder if that was in a press release or something and everyone just started parroting it.
 

SpaceWolf

Banned
Yeah, that was weird. He says he loves them because they are "grouchy" fucks and that;s their thing. And, how he's never heard them talk good about any SW movie. I guess they missed their HiTB review in which they all really liked TFA. They were basically trying to undermine their opinion by not so subtly saying that they shouldn't be taken seriously.

Yeah, seemed a little backhanded.
 

Anung

Un Rama
Fittingly enough they've become such fanboy robots that they can't even respond negatively to a direct attack on their character.

1208423.jpg
 

BatDan

Bane? Get them on board, I'll call it in.
That's why I only subscribe to Screen Junkies for Honest Trailers.
The other stuff they do can be cringe as hell
 

Data West

coaches in the WNBA
'The grittiness of this movie that validates me as an adult who likes a childrens fantasy series'

Might be the realest line ever uttered about Star Wars
 
Look how fast people are turning on TFA in the wake of this movie. It's almost dizzying how fast people are turning around saying how bad Episode VII is now

I don't know if anyone is actually turning on TFA. It's always had its detractors. They just seem to be getting louder lately, as a lot of them seem to also be defenders of RO, and oftentimes, the prequels. It's almost as if they prefer space battles, explosions, and whizbang light saber fights to character depth, clear motivations, and emotional depth. Which is fine.
 

Afrocious

Member
Though I haven't read this whole thread, I saw nothing wrong with their review of Rogue One. It's okay to criticize things, ya'll.
 
Though I haven't read this whole thread, I saw nothing wrong with their review of Rogue One. It's okay to criticize things, ya'll.

Most people seem to be pretty supportive of their criticisms on the movie. Not just here, but judging by the number of thumbs up versus thumbs down on each of their RO videos they've put up on YouTube.
 

Afrocious

Member
Most people seem to be pretty supportive of their criticisms on the movie. Not just here, but judging by the number of thumbs up versus thumbs down on each of their RO videos they've put up on YouTube.

Oh I know. I disagree that GAF supports criticism of RO though, from what I've seen and have been told to directly at least.
 

ExVicis

Member
I don't know if anyone is actually turning on TFA. It's always had its detractors. They just seem to be getting louder lately, as a lot of them seem to also be defenders of RO, and oftentimes, the prequels. It's almost as if they prefer space battles, explosions, and whizbang light saber fights to character depth, clear motivations, and emotional depth. Which is fine.
You're right. There isn't anything wrong with that, in fact I love that kind of stuff, it's why I don't hate RO. And in fact Mike, Jay or Rich don't hate RO and they seem to think liking that stuff is alright too. Rich Evans first real statement about RO is that the film was alright and Jay says it's a standard average action movie with Star Wars on it. Even in the RO Plinkett Review Mike doesn't say it's a horrible awful film, just that it's got no depth. It's why it compares he to the Icing on a Cake, which tastes good but it has no real substance.

I think that's why they've put out so much RO content (well that and views), because people are unable to accept that some other people find it an average C-grade Movie and move to aggressively defend it as the best Star Wars film since Empire or better.

Personally

Me, personally, I loved this film, despite saying it's average and about a C on a grading scale. I, personally, loved this film.
 
I don't know if anyone is actually turning on TFA. It's always had its detractors. They just seem to be getting louder lately, as a lot of them seem to also be defenders of RO, and oftentimes, the prequels. It's almost as if they prefer space battles, explosions, and whizbang light saber fights to character depth, clear motivations, and emotional depth. Which is fine.

Personally, both movies left me cold. I would say I preferred TFA to RO, but that's not saying much. RO was boring aside for the action at the end, and while I have problems with TFA's main characters (like Finn's personality not making sense and Rey's past being a mystery box the film teases you with and which people use against any criticism), I at least enjoyed my time with them. With TFA, I soured on the movie after thinking about it during the ride home from the theater. With RO, I soured on it while watching the movie.
 
I don't like either TFA or R1 either. I think TFA could have gone in an interesting direction and really explored the characters. Like the Scollard said, Rey is a mystery box and Finn had an interesting premise, but they don't follow through on it. At least with them, they had personalities. In R1, the characters just don't have a personality. They're barren archetypes. Again, they could've done something interesting with them.
 
I don't like either TFA or R1 either. I think TFA could have gone in an interesting direction and really explored the characters. Like the Scollard said, Rey is a mystery box and Finn had an interesting premise, but they don't follow through on it. At least with them, they had personalities. In R1, the characters just don't have a personality. They're barren archetypes. Again, they could've done something interesting with them.

I can understand wanting more of an exploration of the characters in TFA, but I excuse the fact that we only got some compelling setups because it's part one of a planned trilogy. These characters will be back, which was planned from day one.

Rogue One's characters will never be seen again (except maybe as background characters in some other side story). This was their one shot to make themselves known and make people care, and none of them did. Which is why I don't find myself being as forgiving toward this movie.
 

xevis

Banned
I can understand wanting more of an exploration of the characters in TFA, but I excuse the fact that we only got some compelling setups because it's part one of a planned trilogy. These characters will be back, which was planned from day one.

Rogue One's characters will never be seen again (except maybe as background characters in some other side story). This was their one shot to make themselves known and make people care, and none of them did. Which is why I don't find myself being as forgiving toward this movie.

A film should stand on its own merits and not lean upon future sequels to justify itself. By that metric TFA is a mostly crap retread of a much better movie. I don't think it deserves any slack because it's part of some larger universe.
 
A film should stand on its own merits and not lean upon future sequels to justify itself. By that metric TFA is a mostly crap retread of a much better movie. I don't think it deserves any slack because it's part of some larger universe.

If that's the case, Empire fails miserably as a movie. It begins with characters we're only properly introduced to in the preceding movie, and opens with Luke talking to a ghost with no real explanation and using magic powers we have no idea how he got (and are never really told the origin of, because ANH showed his introduction to it).

It ends on one of the biggest cliffhangers in cinema history, with Luke having just discovered that the big bad guy is his dad, Han is maybe dead and is being given to somebody named Jabba we've never met, Lando is god-knows-where, and the Empire's power and reach are growing unchecked.

It's because of its place as part of a trilogy that we forgive these glaring issues. In fact, these cliffhangers and plot holes are part of what makes it so great--we know what's come before and we know to expect answers in the movie that follows.

But on its own (the metric by which you say TFA is crap), if viewed by someone who had never seen ANH or ROTJ, Empire is an unsatisfying and confusing mess.
 
Did no one else notice how they put an emphasis on the word "film" every time they said it and only said the word "movie" like, two or three times?

"Film" implies a level of sophisticated art and scholarship that these movies don't deserve. You're not Fellini, and you're not Godard. Get over it.
I understand what you're getting at, but I feel you're severely reaching. Films and movies are literally the same thing. One word might have slightly more sophisticated connotations -- and for my money it's way, way less than you suggest -- but they're still interchangeable. (For example, my local city paper has "movie reviews" written by a "film critic".) And a basic rule of good writing/speaking is to vary your words to keep things interesting. Switching between the two terms is fine for that reason alone.

As mentioned elsewhere you also need to consider that criticism has favored "film" for decades, particularly outside of the US. These things you're complaining about might be aimed at an NA audience, but they still fit in a larger cultural context which seems to favor film.

There's some terrible books out there, but we don't get weird about people calling 50 Shades of Grey a novel. There's also some great art existing in nerd culture, so what, do they need to take a vote before any discussion to see if the subject matter is well regarded enough to call it a film? Make a public poll, get a consensus?

Words are fun, there's nothing wrong with using a slightly wider variety of them.

(You can cut your argument the other way too. "Movies" is often used to disguise just how elitist or niche something actually is. Nerds talking about Star Wars on YouTube for 30+ minutes isn't as common, man-on-the-street low culture as they maybe want to pretend. Criticism is inherently an elite activity, even when it's about crap.)
 
I seriously think -- and this is completely assholish of me -- that the Vader sequence has a lot to do with why people think it is a good movie.
 
If that's the case, Empire fails miserably as a movie. It begins with characters we're only properly introduced to in the preceding movie, and opens with Luke talking to a ghost with no real explanation and using magic powers we have no idea how he got (and are never really told the origin of, because ANH showed his introduction to it).

It ends on one of the biggest cliffhangers in cinema history, with Luke having just discovered that the big bad guy is his dad, Han is maybe dead and is being given to somebody named Jabba we've never met, Lando is god-knows-where, and the Empire's power and reach are growing unchecked.

It's because of its place as part of a trilogy that we forgive these glaring issues. In fact, these cliffhangers and plot holes are part of what makes it so great--we know what's come before and we know to expect answers in the movie that follows.

But on its own (the metric by which you say TFA is crap), if viewed by someone who had never seen ANH or ROTJ, Empire is an unsatisfying and confusing mess.

Though I agree with some of your points, the situation between TFA and Empire is pretty different, and I have the same problem as him with TFA. The main issue separating them is that TFA relies on future films to have it's own plot make sense. Whenever I bring up Rey using the Jedi Mind Trick (one of the worst scenes in the film in my opinion, and the main reason I can see why some consider her a Mary Sue, since, my god, that felt like it came straight from a bad fanfic). It constantly teases you about the characters' pasts, telling you that you'll get answers... as long as you pay roughly 40$ to see both films in theaters. Rey's vision is probably the worst offender in that regard.

Empire, on the other hand, doesn't rely on any future films for its own plot to make sense. It assumes that you've watched the previous entry in the series, but that's all. It doesn't bring up any plot points for RotJ to explain. Sure, Vader may have revealed himself to be Luke's father, and Han may be frozen in carbonite, but the heroes are safe and are ready to go rescue Han. The final shot is them looking out the window at the nebula, ready and determined to get their friend back. And with that shot, you can assume that the heroes will go and make things right in the next one (which they do). Also, when Empire brings up an element of the SW lore, it usually explains it right then and there. When Darth Vader denies killing Luke's father, he doesn't just say no, he says "I am your father" as well. If TFA did that scene, it would probably just have Vader denying it, and then saying "You will never believe what actually happened to your father" when Luke throws himself off the platform, and they wait until the next film before explaining that Vader was Luke's father.

That's the main difference between the two, and why TFA fails. When Empire expands the lore, it fills in as much as possible. Sure, you could wonder about the exact series of events that led to Anakin becoming Vader, but you're not wondering who actually killed Luke's father. TFA, when it expands the lore, leaves a lot of holes. How did the First Order get so powerful? Who is Rey's family? (Remember that in the OT, they never used Luke's family as a carrot stick. Anakin is explained in ANH, and when the fact that he has a sibling is revealed, the audience is told its Leia in the same movie.) It feels cheap how TFA is relying on future films to have its own make sense, while with Empire, it feels like a natural, fair progression that only relies on what the audience already knows if they've seen the previous films in the series.
 
I seriously think -- and this is completely assholish of me -- that the Vader sequence has a lot to do with why people think it is a good movie.

Considering how many people were raving about it, when it doesn't involve any of the "memorable" characters from the film, I don't think you're wrong.
 
Considering how many people were raving about it, when it doesn't involve any of the "memorable" characters from the film, I don't think you're wrong.

A lot of people are raving about it and only it. Nothing from the beginning, nothing from the middle, not even Chirrut being badass is talked about that much. Just the Vader sequence with the space battle thrown in.

As for the TFA criticisms: that was my problem with Rey. She was able to do so much so fast and Abrams put her parentage in his mystery box. It doesn't entice me into trying to figure out who her parents are, it just annoys me because it's putting the explanation for her power boost into the next movie instead of it deriving from the current movie.
 

nomis

Member
I seriously think -- and this is completely assholish of me -- that the Vader sequence has a lot to do with why people think it is a good movie.

It was the part that felt the most flagrant and masturbatory for me :( it saddens me that you're 100% correct

I was far more invested in the characters than Mike and Jay were, even thinking the last moments on scarif were poingnant, and then that fuckin red lightsaber just had to ignite at the same moment as the erections of all the Kylo Rens in the audience...
 
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