Support NeoGAF

[Anton Sugar]

I feel this may have been mentioned, but in The Q&A with Jeff Goldsmith, Peele noted that the Sunken Place is sort of analogous to the black experience when watching horror movies. Yelling at a screen, knowing what is happening/going to happen, but being helpless to watch events play out anyways.

That really is infused in so many aspects of the movie. The cop car showing up at the end is one of the biggest "Oh fuck, NO, shoulda gotten out of there, dude, now you're fucked" moments, too.

 

[parrotbeak]

Can anyone remember the name of the procedure? They said it a few times in the movie.

The coagula?

 

[HotHamBoy]

Honestly, I thought the mom made her forget each of her boyfriends after they did whatever with her. It wasn't until she revealed she was in on it did everything start making sense.

I assumed she was in on it from the beginning.

The brain switching threw me. Loved it.

Just saw it for the 1st time. Excellent.

 

[mattiewheels]

So obviously the bingo game was their codeword for the auction, but what would they have done if he said he'd join them instead of taking that walk to the lake?

 

[LionPride]

So obviously the bingo game was their codeword for the auction, but what would they have done if he said he'd join them instead of taking that walk to the lake?

Rose is the one who said Lake, she gets him away. The plan was for Rose to just get him the fuck out of dodge so they can sell him, alternate plan, make his ass go night night.

 

[mattiewheels]

Rose is the one who said Lake, she gets him away. The plan was for Rose to just get him the fuck out of dodge so they can sell him, alternate plan, make his ass go night night.

Oh shit, there you go. I thought I remembered he was the one who wanted to do that. Makes me wonder if I missed a tell about that crawl space door being left open by Grandma, is that what you're supposed to assume?

 

[Reptars Revenge]

Lol at her trying to seduce and kidnap a top NCAA athlete next. Can you imagine how many white people Calipari would kill to get back one of his top prospects at Kentucky.

 

[R-User!]

Also, the open crawl space door felt so deus ex machina to me that I was trying to figure out a logical reason it would have been left open. Grandma breaking free enough to know that he should see the photos?

I think that she had more power to bubble her way up closer to the surface than any of the male characters that were suppressed as evidenced by her crying and the Grandmother having an internal struggle to suppress her in front of Chris.

I know it's just an assumption that this is the case, but she's crying while talking to Chris, which would could be happening if the real woman sunk deep in Grandma was trying to emerge.

 

[LionPride]

Oh shit, there you go. I thought I remembered he was the one who wanted to do that. Makes me wonder if I missed a tell about that crawl space door being left open by Grandma, is that what you're supposed to assume?

Either that or Rose purposefully did. I suscribe to the belief that the woman Grandma is in broke free for a bit

 

[PixelatedBookake]

Was it ever explained why the camera flash made them revert back to their former selves?

 

[robotrock]

Was it ever explained why the camera flash made them revert back to their former selves?

Nope. I don't think the deer being thrown at the car in the beginning is explained really either.

I don't think they need to be tbh, glitch in the sunken place

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

In the sunken place, they talk down to you. Or even as if you are not there.

 

[Einchy]

Nope. I don't think the deer being thrown at the car in the beginning is explained really either.

I don't think they need to be tbh, glitch in the sunken place

It wasn't throw, they just hit it.

Someone pointed out that it was a hint to who she really was since she showned no empathy for the deer while he did.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

Was it ever explained why the camera flash made them revert back to their former selves?

WNF bug.

 

[Tagyhag]

Lol at her trying to seduce and kidnap a top NCAA athlete next. Can you imagine how many white people Calipari would kill to get back one of his top prospects at Kentucky.

I did think that was a bit dumb on her part though, black or not, people care about top athletes, so them missing would have been looked into.

 

[robotrock]

It wasn't throw, they just hit it.

Someone pointed out that it was a hint to who she really was since she showned no empathy for the deer while he did.

For real? I really thought that thing was like thrown at high speed across the wind shield

 

[br3wnor]

Also, the open crawl space door felt so deus ex machina to me that I was trying to figure out a logical reason it would have been left open. Grandma breaking free enough to know that he should see the photos?

Yeah, that's my guess. My reading of it was that the grandma was probably fine most of the time but when they'd bring a new victim she'd have moments of bugging out because deep down her original self would get triggered, as we saw multiple times in interactions between her and Chris. It's been a few weeks so I don't remember his last interaction w/ her before finding the door open but wouldn't be surprised if she did it acting as the actual person who was invaded by Grams.

 

[Kreed]

Saw this film for a second time yesterday and it was great being able to catch things that "didn't click" on the first viewing, particularly the family and the silent auction. How the Black people who had their brains swapped acted and knowing that they were really White people in Black people's bodies made their actions make more sense/click much faster. Example, when the Asian male auctioneer asked how things were as a Black man and Chris passed the question back to the other "Black guy" there, it made the scene more messed up knowing that that was a White guy giving the "there's no difference" response.

One thing that I've been thinking about after seeing the film a second time is Georgina/the Grandma, the one Black woman victim we see. From the silent auction/etc... and looking at things from the perspectives of the auctioneers, their main motivations on a basic level are getting "new bodies" due to growing old/not being as physically fit as their victims. But as Chris asked the blind artist, "Why Black people"? Again from the auctioneer's perspective, why not get bodies that look/feel like what you're used to? Now of course, the film explains this well in regards to many of the auctioneers wanting Black male bodies due stereotypes like "superior strength", "being great in bed" from the auctioneer wives, etc... with the father/grandfather being the worst of the bunch in regards to thinking they are doing a "service" to their victims by putting their "genes" to better use.

But none of these stereotypes "work" for the Grandma. There's no stereotype motivations for her wanting a Black woman's body shown or discussed in the film (Ex: Golf Swing, Running abilities, etc...), just us seeing her focus on her looks in the mirror. As discussed in the thread, there is the "no one looks for Black victims" angle (although this could also work for any non-White US ethnic group), the film mentions "Black people being in", and of course for the purpose of the film Georgina had to be Black, but I would have liked to see some Black woman stereotypes explored from the Grandmother's perspective.

 

[Tagyhag]

Saw this film for a second time yesterday and it was great being able to catch things that "didn't click" on the first viewing, particularly the family and the silent auction. How the Black people who had their brains swapped acted and knowing that they were really White people in Black people's bodies made their actions make more sense/click much faster. Example, when the Asian male auctioneer asked how things were as a Black man and Chris passed the question back to the other "Black guy" there, it made the scene more messed up knowing that that was a White guy giving the "there's no difference" response.

One thing that I've been thinking about after seeing the film a second time is Georgina/the Grandma, the one Black woman victim we see. From the silent auction/etc... and looking at things from the perspectives of the auctioneers, their main motivations on a basic level are getting "new bodies" due to growing old/not being as physically fit as their victims. But as Chris asked the blind artist, "Why Black people"? Again from the auctioneer's perspective, why not get bodies that look/feel like what you're used to? Now of course, the film explains this well in regards to many of the auctioneers wanting Black male bodies due stereotypes like "superior strength", "being great in bed" from the auctioneer wives, etc... with the father/grandfather being the worst of the bunch in regards to thinking they are doing a "service" to their victims by putting their "genes" to better use.

But none of these stereotypes "work" for the Grandma. There's no stereotype motivations for her wanting a Black woman's body shown or discussed in the film (Ex: Golf Swing, Running abilities, etc...), just us seeing her focus on her looks in the mirror. As discussed in the thread, there is the "no one looks for Black victims" angle (although this could also work for any non-White US ethnic group), the film mentions "Black people being in", and of course for the purpose of the film Georgina had to be Black, but I would have liked to see some Black woman stereotypes explored from the Grandmother's perspective.

I assumed it played on the "black don't crack" stereotype.

 

[SnakeXs]

I assumed it played on the "black don't crack" stereotype.

And the whole idea that a missing black person isn't often going to get a lot of attention from authorities.

 

[Reptars Revenge]

I did think that was a bit dumb on her part though, black or not, people care about top athletes, so them missing would have been looked into.

Right! Those kids are worth millions. ESPN has Michael Porter Jr under 24 hour surveillance at the moment.

 

[Kreed]

I assumed it played on the "black don't crack" stereotype.

That would have been one stereotype I would have liked to have seen brought up directly, along with things like "Black hair" and non Black people wanting to touch it (Georgiana was playing with her hair a lot but obviously it was to hide the scars on her head).

 

[Timo]

Goddamn this shit was good. I caught the picking cotton visual in theater, which i rarely figure out visual metaphors like that.

And the whole Dahmer part about killed me, too funny.

Eating cereal separately from your milk is serial killer shit and probably racist as hell like most things.

Ok guys, everyone keeps saying this, but i do this all the time. Keeps tbe cereal from getting soggy. Y'all trying to make me feel bad.

 

[Deleted member 102362]

I just got back from a screening of this after hearing it was a critical darling without actually knowing anything about it...so glad I went into this blind, it was great.

 

[Beaulieu]

how did the blind guy participate in the silent auction ? how did he know when to raise the bingo card?

excellent movie tho.

 

[Tagyhag]

how did the blind guy participate in the silent auction ? how did he know when to raise the bingo card?

excellent movie tho.

I assumed the assistant he was always with told him.

 

[TheExodu5]

Just saw it. The suspense was great, but the movie quickly went downhill after the reveal.

The whole brain swap aspect was completely unnecessary and didn't work.The black characters just acted too subdued and didn't feel human at any point...it just felt like they acted that way for the benefit of the viewers. Misdirection to try to give way to a twist with the brain swap reveal.

I just don't buy that every single person wanted to become a black person for the reasons given. You mean to tell me out of the dozens of people they've done this for, that no one requested to be something other than a black individual? It just felt so fabricated for the benefit of the movie.

I would have bought the hypnotizing slaves motive. That would have at least given some credibility to the racial aspect of the movie. But as it was presented? Everything just felt so fabricated and cartoonish. Speaking of which, the transformation in the girlfriend's character (and hairstyle) after the reveal was ridiculously cartoonish and over the top.

If the other black characters are just transplanted family members, why do they all behave so fucking weird? Why do they have such strange affectations and a peculiar manner of speech? Why is grandpa sprinting across the field in the middle of the night, looking like the T-1000? I know old folks can be somewhat out of touch, but the housemaid and groundskeeper are beyond autistic.

The film tries to hold your interest in the first half by giving them all such peculiar behavior, so that you think they might be robots or brainwashed hypnosis victims. But in retrospect none of their behavior makes any sense. Everything they do is conspicuous for no apparent reason.

Yeah that about sums up my feelings there.

 

[Wollan]

Really liked this.

The whole brain transplant aspect was a nice and unexpected surprise thinking I had figured out everything from the trailer.

The sunken place visually reminded me of Under The Skin.

Speaking of the trailer: There's a scene missing I believe featuring a skeletal deer. I was so sure it would turn out that the escape was some sort of dream (with that scene being part of it) but it was a straight forward escape.

edit:

so this whole taking over the bodies of black people thing started because the grandpa lost a race to that black guy in germany right

like some sick twisted version of if you cant beat em join em

This man picked cotton to save his life

Haha there was something super creepy about the way she was eating milk and cereal separately. Who the fuck does that?

Someone on the slashfilm podcast noted she had literally separated the "colors" from the white.

Awesome details.

 

[Deleted member 102362]

Speaking of the trailer: There's a scene missing I believe featuring a skeletal deer. I was so sure it would turn out that the escape was some sort of dream (with that scene being part of it) but it was a straight forward escape.

I'm hoping that's on the Blu-ray extras.

 

[CloudWolf]

So, I just saw it and I overall really liked it. But I think the reveal was really weird and kinda out of place. I agree with the guy that said the reveal makes all the weird stuff surrounding the black housekeepers and the dude at the party completely nonsensical. That said, I really liked the rest of the film and parts of the reveal were also pretty great. For instance, I loved how all the awkward party talk really turned out to be the partygoers checking what they would gain from becoming Chris.

So yeah, great film with a silly reveal.

EDIT: I do have to wonder how the hell the whole thing had been going on for so long. I mean, I get that the whole point is that black people going missing isn't that big of a deal in the eyes of the American law enforcement, but surely at some point somebody would notice all these missing black dudes had the same girlfriend who just happens to be the daughter of a succesful neurosurgeon. It's not like the Armitrages are some weird backwards family and Rose clearly doesn't pick random loners as victims.

 

[Lifejumper]

Great fucking movie.

 

[SolidChamp]

Yeah. Pleasantly surprised that this got a theatrical release here in Taiwan this week. So the wife and I went to see it (she went in cold, knowing nothing and not having seen a single snippet of footage) and thought it was an outstanding thriller. Very well made and cleverly written.

 

[MugiwaraCole]

So, I just saw it and I overall really liked it. But I think the reveal was really weird and kinda out of place. I agree with the guy that said the reveal makes all the weird stuff surrounding the black housekeepers and the dude at the party completely nonsensical. That said, I really liked the rest of the film and parts of the reveal were also pretty great. For instance, I loved how all the awkward party talk really turned out to be the partygoers checking what they would gain from becoming Chris.

So yeah, great film with a silly reveal.

EDIT: I do have to wonder how the hell the whole thing had been going on for so long. I mean, I get that the whole point is that black people going missing isn't that big of a deal in the eyes of the American law enforcement, but surely at some point somebody would notice all these missing black dudes had the same girlfriend who just happens to be the daughter of a succesful neurosurgeon. It's not like the Armitrages are some weird backwards family and Rose clearly doesn't pick random loners as victims.

How does the reveal make anything nonsensical? What?

 

[border]

How does the reveal make anything nonsensical? What?

If you were were hoping to lure in a victim with the facade of normalcy, why would you expose that victim to the least normal members of your community? Grandma and Grandpa should have been shuttled off to someone else's house for the weekend, rather than forced to serve as maid and groundskeeper. I get his point, but it's a plot hole you can reasonably chalk up to arrogance anyway.

 

[Veelk]

If you were were hoping to lure in a victim with the facade of normalcy, why would you expose that victim to the least normal members of your community? Grandma and Grandpa should have been shuttled off to someone else's house for the weekend, rather than forced to serve as maid and groundskeeper. I get his point, but it's a plot hole you can reasonably chalk up to arrogance anyway.

So you have Grandma and Grandpa acting strange. So, as a black guy trying to get through the awkward phase of meeting you're GF's family, you conclude that they are actually trying to use some kind of neurosurgery to transplant their minds into your body?

Sometimes people forget that movie characters don't know they're in a movie. If this meeting were to happen in real life, people would be wierded out, but people actually have a high tolerance for wierdness in the right context, like trying to make a good impression on others.

 

[caliph95]

If you were were hoping to lure in a victim with the facade of normalcy, why would you expose that victim to the least normal members of your community? Grandma and Grandpa should have been shuttled off to someone else's house for the weekend, rather than forced to serve as maid and groundskeeper. I get his point, but it's a plot hole you can reasonably chalk up to arrogance anyway.

They were weird but nothing they did would have made a normal person until the end to think something was up.

 

[Nozem]

I LOVED the efficiency of Chris taking down the family. Except taking the cotton out of his ears, he didn't make any clichéd horror film mistakes.

If you were were hoping to lure in a victim with the facade of normalcy, why would you expose that victim to the least normal members of your community? Grandma and Grandpa should have been shuttled off to someone else's house for the weekend, rather than forced to serve as maid and groundskeeper. I get his point, but it's a plot hole you can reasonably chalk up to arrogance anyway.

This is my main issue with the film as well. But I get why it's done this way. The film wouldn't have nearly as much tension if everything seemed normal at the Armitages.

 

[CloudWolf]

So you have Grandma and Grandpa acting strange. So, as a black guy trying to get through the awkward phase of meeting you're GF's family, you conclude that they are actually trying to use some kind of neurosurgery to transplant their minds into your body?

Sometimes people forget that movie characters don't know they're in a movie. If this meeting were to happen in real life, people would be wierded out, but people actually have a high tolerance for wierdness in the right context, like trying to make a good impression on others.

Nah, that wasn't my point. The point was that the grandparents and the guy at the party were just acting weird in a way that was never really explained by the movie except for 'trying to deceive the audience that it's ordinary hypnosis'. I mean, if except for a very small part, the person who has his mind transplanted is controlling the body, why is every transplanted person acting so weird?

But yeah, I understand why it was done and I don't have beef with it, but it made the reveal somewhat of an anticlimax.

 

[MugiwaraCole]

Nah, that wasn't my point. The point was that the grandparents and the guy at the party were just acting weird in a way that was never really explained by the movie except for 'trying to deceive the audience that it's ordinary hypnosis'. I mean, if except for a very small part, the person who has his mind transplanted is controlling the body, why is every transplanted person acting so weird?

But yeah, I understand why it was done and I don't have beef with it, but it made the reveal somewhat of an anticlimax.

They were acting weirdly because there are still bits of the original person left. It's clear the surgery doesn't work nearly as well as the family thinks it does, but they don't care much because they are obsessed with using their victims to extend their own lives. You're overthinking it lol.

 

[openrob]

One thing I want to run by you guys. When the cop appeared in the beginning and asked for Chris ID, what if he was actually trying to save him or warn him or maybe just get his address just in case something happened because he(the cop) already had suspicion of Rose and her family abducting black people? Gives a new dynamic to the strained relationship between us and the police department in that sometimes they just might be of help and not just a nuisance or racially profiling someone

Yeah, my friend was saying that this might have been the angle they were going for, that the Cop was a little suspicious of the family, but was just feeling things out

It makes sense and plays into the white privilege narrative - that the pretty white girl can get the police to back off so easily.


It's internally consistent and fits the theme of the film really well and take it as my official head cannon.

 

[1.21Gigawatts]

Movie was totally different for me when I watched it the second time.

Knowing about grandma and grandpa and knowing that the entire garden party was basically just an exhibition of him so the people could decide if they want to buy him... all that made me see all these scene in a completely different light.

Very cool movie.

 

[ronaldthump]

Good movie. Just finished watching it. Loved the final act. Thoughts without having read the thread. Will go over it once I'm done. Want this down while its fresh.

What I didn't think make sense was these white people wanting to transport their brains into a new body; and then act all weird and not themselves. Bizarre. Why would grandma and pa want to stand around all day doing menial shit while their family is living a normal life in the house. Why do they smile and act all creepy. You'd think they'd act normalish?

That's the weak point of the movie. The hypnosis stuff I can sort of deal with but this "zombie black people" thing I can't. The final act was kinectic, violent and a blast.

Loved the TSA guy.
8.5/10

 

[Croash]

It was released in France on Wednesday so I'm so glad I finally got to watch it.

Splendid movie, all actors nailed it, I especially loved the girlfriend although where the story went for her was no surprise.

I found the story themes to be very powerful, the humor here and there got great laughs in my theater (that phone call mute!), and it didn't even need scares to be frightening. That's one horror movie I can show anyone (well, it does get violent, but who cares when you're yelling "Fuck yeah!").

Sometimes it reminded me of Resident Evil VII and You're Next, which I both enjoyed.

Definitely a Blu-Ray purchase down the line, a second watch will be great with the full story in mind (although I feel I still have in mind every weird moment that I can now explain).

 

[Angelus Errare]

Also, the open crawl space door felt so deus ex machina to me that I was trying to figure out a logical reason it would have been left open. Grandma breaking free enough to know that he should see the photos?

It makes sense if you think about black women's place in the black community. Unarguably black women fight the hardest for everyone else especially black men many times at the expense of their own plights and issues.

I see the girl that grandma took over as the analogy to that, despite being held down and under thumb she expressed sadness when she saw they got this unsuspected black man, broke out when she saw the beginnings of mom doing the hypnosis when they drunk tea. Though I still think it was the girl whose name I don't remember atm who left it open.

 

[mcarlie]

Why did everyone become silent and start looking up the stairs in that one scene?

 

[LakeEarth]

Why did everyone become silent and start looking up the stairs in that one scene?

Because their conversations were just for show. Most of them don't even know each other. They're there for him only.

 

[mcarlie]

Because their conversations were just for show. Most of them don't even know each other. They're there for him only.

That doesn't seem right. I got the impression that they were all friends of the family. Also strangers don't usually just stand around silently in such situations.

 

[Burbeting]

Saw this yesterday. Gaf had spoiled me on the movie in gaming side multiple times (pricks ), but the tension worked perfectly even knowing the twists.

What a great movie.

 

[Compsiox]

Movie was totally different for me when I watched it the second time.

Knowing about grandma and grandpa and knowing that the entire garden party was basically just an exhibition of him so the people could decide if they want to buy him... all that made me see all these scene in a completely different light.

Very cool movie.

That bingo scene was confusing without knowing the truth behind the family.

Edit: Actually it was probably because I was focused on the bingo boards more than anything.

 

[MugiwaraCole]

That doesn't seem right. I got the impression that they were all friends of the family. Also strangers don't usually just stand around silently in such situations.

Friends of the family doesn't make them friends of each other. Undoubtedly, a few of them know each other and are friendly, but they stopped talking abruptly when he went upstairs because 1) they were putting on a show and either not talking about anything of consequence or talking about him, and 2) they were possibly worried that he was onto them, so when he walks upstairs to get away from the party, everyone pauses their speech in a tense "...is he onto us?" moment.