Thought as much. Thanks!
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UK set to trigger Brexit on March 29
- Thread starter chadskin
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Thought as much. Thanks!
Maximus P
Member
The pound is really unpredictable at the moment . For example, When Theresa May announced that we we in for a 'hard brexit' the pound actually strengthened a little.
I'd just exchange your money a few days before you go on your holiday. The pound isnt going to tumble immensely after the announcement, there's just way too much uncertainty for that to happen.
Kill Your Masters
Member
What is so complicated about Brexit though? Reading up on what Brexit does before the vote the following things come to my mind that are as "complex and hard to understand and explain" as Brexit when I switch on my common sense:
Putting your hand on a hot stove.
Putting your head into a crocodiles mouth.
Driving on the highway in the wrong direction.
Parachute Jumping without parachute.
Driving while drunk.
Drinking rat poison.
Voting Trump.
Putting your hand on a hot stove.
Putting your head into a crocodiles mouth.
Driving on the highway in the wrong direction.
Parachute Jumping without parachute.
Driving while drunk.
Drinking rat poison.
Voting Trump.
It's entirely your right to not express your opinions, though I do think it's a little odd to come in here and post so much about Brexit without actually explaining the core of your position. You're probably right that nothing you can say is going to convince me that I am wrong, however, I think it's worth recognising that sometimes discourse has its benefits even if no-one is likely to have a sudden change of heart.
It's always interesting to hear other people's views, especially if they're well formed, thoughtful and well argued. It helps me understand why people feel differently to me, and generally speaking allows one to consider compromise positions rather than the black and white totally in or totally out style debate Brexit has become.
I used to work for a guy who voted for Brexit, despite having a house in spain he went to every 2 months.
CyclopsRock
Member
That's not really mutually exclusive, though. You can enjoy spending time in Spain and think the UK shouldn't be part of a legal and customs union.
Unless you voted Brexit because of immigration and then you are an immigrant yourself.
you arent an immigrant if you go on holiday to spain every 2 months.
" I don't want to waste time explaining my vote but I sure fuck have time to explain why I won't explain"
Shadowhelper
Banned
Pound is virtually at parity with the dollar through most practical exchanges.
So that's like a loss of like 50% of your money if you are going to USA, just off the bat.
Everything in the country has become more expensive, and the quality of products, food, packaging has noticeable gone worse.
We're still a hub for financial activity and investment, so hopefully we won't become Greece. Economically, no one knows how it will pan out. It might remain very similar just because the EU doesn't wanna rock their own economy at this moment.
But yea, young Brits. Their prospects, jobs, wages, ability to move around for jobs, friends, relationships, all of that has been diminished badly. Its kinda stunning how quickly the country has gone to the dogs. I'll never understand young leavers, who are screwing themselves over, or "it was just a joke!" " Why does London have everything?"
The funny thing is, this anti London vote is only going impoverish the rest of the country more. London will just continue to sit pretty.
It's one of those great, historical facts that Leavers like to wave around as a sign of how great we are without looking into any of the context behind it. Just like how we used to have great trade deals (just ignore all the stuff about taking countries by force and that icky slavery stuff)
The only reason we waived part of West Germany's debt was because the USSR demanded that the Balkan states do the same for the East. We did it because we were terrified that we'd lose the West to the Russians if they got there first. It was a strategic move in the Cold War, not an altruistic act of kindness.
They'll be fucking laughed out of the building if they try to pull that shit during the negotiations.
In which case best of luck. I found the place tough going on a normal wage but as a doctor earning a much higher salary than normal people it'd be great and it's a really lovely country.
I tried to watch that Guardian video last night but it just made me angry so I turned it off and went to play Zelda, seems the view of some people is if you're a English person in another country you're an "ex-pat" but if you're non English person in England then you're a "immigrant".
If these people don't get their health care and pension rights guaranteed they're in for a rude awakening (and will most likely end up having to come back to the UK to put more strain on the current system)
Some of those people have lived there for decades. Sigh. And voted to take back control. Except it seems with their own circumstances.
For the UK, economically speaking, taking back those pensioners is a lose lose situation. We import people that are past their working life and more likely to be unhealthy, and export immigrants who are younger and healthier.
Jezbollah
Member
Do you really think people might be open to talking about their reasons to vote in any particular way for fear of dog-piling?
Shadowhelper
Banned
That video wasn't endorsing that point of view, but explaining something Europeans, not just Brits say. Western European people are considered expats, and the rest are immigrants. But Brits do seem to be particularly bad about it.
But, that's also what the indigenous and locals call them, expats, not immigrants, because its's like this weird in built cultural and racial superiority type thing. Also I find the term ex pat hilarious. An ex patriot. " I used to be a patriot, but now I hate my og country."
CyclopsRock
Member
That's also not mutually exclusive. You can have a problem with cheap, unskilled labour from Hungary but not German surgeons. You can have a problem with skilled plumbers and brickies lowering wages for working class British workers who've done years of apprenticeships, and not Canadian bankers. You can also recognise that young families - wherever they are - inevitably cost a country more (due to schooling, higher use of public services etc) than an older person with a second property who probably spends most of their time drinking sangria and eating gambas pil-pil, inflating the local economy.
There are multiple different types of immigration, and more importantly these different types affect different people in different ways and a failure by those of us who "campaigned" for Remain to recognise this is why simply saying "Look at this tax and spend document, it shows how immigration is good!" obviously failed to resonate. So many of the benefits to immigration are felt primarily by the middle classes and businesses (who get cheaper services and employees respectively, as well as the ability to move all over Europe for good jobs and the ability to hire higher skilled workers from across the EU, again respectively), where as unskilled, uneducated workers see the value of their labour diminish amidst a growth in the labour market, are very unlikely to get job offers from around the EU and the places they live are unlikely to get wealthy foreign visitors buy a second home there to enjoy their holidays in. You don't need to convince me that immigration's been good for the UK, but then I'm a middle class person working a high skilled job in London. I don't expect the people getting the sticky end of the wicket to just shrug and say "Ah well, at least CyclopsRock is benefitting from cheap plumbers and low costs in shops due to an infinite pool of minimum wage labour."
Furthermore, I don't really think 2 months in Spain makes you an immigrant but even if it did, the idea that if you've emigrated you must, therefore, always support all forms of immigration forevermore is obviously not a logical conclusion, and it doesn't make one a hypocrite. It's also not necessarily a case of pulling the ladder up after yourself, unless you view all immigration as a single, amorphous blob. Which only idiots do.
Most of the fluctuations over the past year were due to uncertainty and the shock result of the referendum.
Ironically, Article 50 locking in the UK's departure, and dispelling some of the ambiguity of whether or not the UK will actually leave or not, might stabilise those fluctuations.
Wage problems could be sorted if the government enforced proper wages and introduce a policy to kill off zero hours contracts, they can reduce mass migration from poorer EU countries if they want but they don't, same for countries outside the EU, even more so. More workers is more tax but the government is not putting more money into public services so blaming immigration is a bit unfair, it causes problems because the UK hasn't reacted to the increase as it should and have had ample time to do so.
CyclopsRock
Member
I agree, but you're not actually addressing what I was talking about, which is that telling people immigration is good whilst it's making their lives worse isn't going to convince anyone, and it's an example of why so many decent people basically don't like talking about it - they've been let down by their government, by their local services, by whatever, but if they say they voted for Brexit they get told they're racists. It's happening all over this thread, too - people giving Cartesian shit for writing a long post saying why he's not actually explaining his position as opposed to explaining it, the nudge-nudge, wink-wink implication being that he doesn't actually have any reasons, which in turn means it must just be that he doesn't like foreigners. But my post only started as a reply to someone saying that you can't be an immigrant and be against immigration unless you're a hypocrite, which your explanation - whilst I think basically true - does nothing to combat.
I think people in general are prone to error when it comes to assessing risk via numbers. Diabetes is a bigger risk than immigration.* But our brains let us down in that regard.
*having said this, I am coming round to the idea that population implosion could be a serious threat to us. Basically what Elon Musk is suggesting; to my mind this needs more evidence but I find my self coming round to the theory as of late.
*having said this, I am coming round to the idea that population implosion could be a serious threat to us. Basically what Elon Musk is suggesting; to my mind this needs more evidence but I find my self coming round to the theory as of late.
People are misplacing their disappointment, it should be aimed at the UK Government and some did but as a daft protest vote. But what can you say if the UK Government keeps cutting public services and not enforcing laws that would help etc. as I said above. Have peoples lives got worse over the years because of immigration, I would say no but did immigration increase over that time, yes which makes it an easy target. People have tough lives but let's not kid ourselves, it's not hell like people experienced many decades ago. The government screwed industry decades ago and people are fed up, they wasted oil revenues instead of using it right and saving it for a rainy day like the Norwegians. The chickens have basically come home to roost after Thatcher butchered the country and Labour/Tory governments not doing enough to replace it. People are angry and Brexit is going increase that ten fold.
Halph n Halph
Member
Walk onto any construction site in Britain and spout that bullshit and see what reaction the highly skilled tradesmen give you. Wage reductions are making many lives worse.
Errr. No.
Yup, it only takes one main contractor to use and abuse sub contractors willing to work for nowt and all the rest feel compelled to do it in order to win the business they keep getting out bid on.
Ever depreciating circle it was and it got well out of hand. This has been made more difficult to do now with the requirement for all tradesman to have a UK based NVQ to get on site. It only cost about 2 grand per subbie to get round the EU rules though...
Maybe it's just me but there seem to be more people in this thread accusing people of accusing them of being racists than there are people accusing people of being racists.
I don't deny it happens but who's fault is it, the companies hiring, the government allowing them to pay low wages when it happens. You can point the finger at some immigration but it's not awful across the board and these skilled workers don't always work for less and in some cases are better than their UK counterparts and don't forget fill jobs that companies haven't been able to fill. It's not just always taking jobs away from people. As for home owners, if they felt strongly about immigrant tradesmen, do they hire them for home improvement or not.
QuicheFontaine
Member
Considering the idea that wages across all industries have been the slowest to rise for a long long time, I'd find the idea that you can blame immigrants hard to digest.
I recall someone posting research that suggested immigrants did suppress wages in the brexit thread. And then we looked at it, and it was like 1% or something. So...
But the fact that we've been over this so many times before, means very little. People don't change minds regardless of what people say.
At what point in that post do I accuse anyone of being racist?
Gods some Leave voters are so sensitive.
Thank you for your help in discovering hot water mate, mine was related to immigrants that actually voted against immigration.
I have enough brain cells to understand that 2 months a year don't make you an immigrant.
Again, mine was a general point.
Your point is all well and good, but many of the people that voted leave have just done so because "immigrants are stealing our jobs and are brown people", even though that has been proved as a pile of stinky shit.
I can imagine how many Italian plumbers showed up in UK, ready to steal jobs right? Otherwise why have we been abused immediately after the result?
Yes, unskilled immigration causes exploitation: is this the immigrant fault? No, but the general and ignorant population will always look at it this way.
Very interesting, entirely irrelevant to what I said.
He isn't calling any posters racist/sexist there, hes saying other gaming communities can be. You only have to look at the whole gamergate nonsense to see that he is totally correct in saying that too
TatteredHat
Member
I'd like to thank the people who voted Leave for stopping the same idiocy from happening over here in the Netherlands.
To the people who voted Remain, my heart goes out to you.
To the people who voted Remain, my heart goes out to you.
QuicheFontaine
Member
Oh come off it. "You might be better suited to another forum that likes oppressing women and non-whites".
Halph n Halph
Member
Please stop with that shit , you know full well that EU immigrants are on the whole white.
Secondly, you seem to be confusing blaming uncontrolled immigration with blaming immigrants.
I've said in the OT that it only right that they would want to grab an opportunity to improve things for themselves and their family, and I respect them for it .
The problem is the policy not the people.
I feel pretty confident that if free movement had been limited to western EU countries until east /west economies are more aligned and if the EU as a whole had protected its borders better regarding the refugee crisis ,remain would have won by a landslide.
There is little point in arguing that leave won because of immigration. It's a fact.
Thank you for telling me that EU migrants are white; as I am one, I know this very well.
What exactly do you classify as "shit"?
Maybe the fact that people got harrassed after the referendum results? Were you part of the people that got harrassed? Because if you are not, then you have zero authority to tell me to shut up. I got told to go back to my country, I was shouted racist abuse and so on. Did the same happen to you?
Secondly, do you forget the hate campain from outlets like DM, the Sun and friends? Every page blaming the EU for the migrants, saying that all the dangerous brown people will invade Britain unless Leave would win, etc.?
Did you forget that?
"More aligned": do explain please, what does in your mind constitute a "more aligned" country?
Royal_Phalanx
Member
He's pointing out the fact that all the far-right types in the world support Brexit and Trump. He's not targeting this at a specific person, come on.
nekkid
It doesn't matter who we are, what matters is our plan.
If you're not living on the edge, you're taking up too much room.
Halph n Halph
Member
I said more aligned economies not countries. We are very aligned in respect of our day to day lives and values. This is why it disgusts me that some half head felt the need to hurl abuse at you.
Britain isn't the only country with racists and I beleive we are a very tolerant ,inclusive nation .
The " scary brown people " is too often used to shut down conversation on this topic which is why I asked you to stop and not because I agree with the fucking DM.
Please carry on putting words in my mouth.
Right: still don't know what do you mean by "aligned": who sets the alignment standards?
Based on what?
Britain was a very inclusive and tolerant nation: now Scotland is, England is clearly not.
You didn't ask me to stop, you asked me to "stop with this shit". That ain't shit, that was on every goddamn discussion during the referendum.
Sorry man, we agree to disagree; you don't need to agree with the DM to admit that the propaganda that was pushed on the general pro-leave media was eaxctly that. Brown scary people and EU migrants that steal jobs and doctors appointment.
You can tell me you don't believe in either, which is very good for you, but you can't deny that the narrative was exactly that.
and cake!
CadetMahoney
Member
I don't blame them for moving some personnel/business to mainland Europe away from UK.
I just like it when they said early post brexit they would not reduce jobs in the UK. Then an article came out later putting them on blast for doing a u-turn. I'm trying to find the article but it's drowned out by similar searches.
I just like it when they said early post brexit they would not reduce jobs in the UK. Then an article came out later putting them on blast for doing a u-turn. I'm trying to find the article but it's drowned out by similar searches.
Might want to get used to this. Banks will move small teams around in anticipation.
Bloomberg reports it could be as much as 1000 jobs. Not what i call a small team
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