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[1.21Gigawatts]

Since Ellie is of age now things can get heated

 

[SolicitorPirate]

Gay or straight, who cares it's a video game. Will it be fun to play? That's all that should matter.

It's not important. Also The Last Of Us Part 2 is about hate.

There have been a metric fuckton of posts in this thread alone outlining why it's important. But sure, let's just ignore those because reasons.

 

[Inuhanyou]

Good post.
Sums up my feelings on the hypocrisy when it comes to gay characters in general.
You have people talking about how gay characters shouldn't wear their sexuality on their sleeve but you have NUMEROUS video game, movie, tv show characters who who womanizer's or hopeless romantics, etc.
But as soon as their gay its a problem when they remotely express themselves.
It's hilarious, really.

But i keep saying, this is a problem too with straight media representation and preset gender roles. It is generally about boxing certain things into check lists instead of being more organic.

Men have to be super macho heterosexual dudes who get the girls, women have to fawn over the guy or be the one invested in emotional dissonance just because she's there. Its a problem there too, and its because of the people running the show and creating a lot of this material.

My main thrust in this thread is that Ellie can truly be whoever ND wants her to be in TLOU 2.

I just am irritated by the viewpoint of some, including the author in the OP, that feels like she HAS to be portrayed in a specific manner or else she would be a waste of potential for whatever perspective your personally invested in, either as an advocate for the LGBT community or against it.

 

[IvorB]

Well it depends on if you think those folks are actual bigots or if they are trying to make a point that your skipping over.

I admit i am out of my element speaking to certain people here who surely have more experience with these topics than i, but i do know that generalizing folks is not good in any scenario.

I'm not accusing anyone of bigotry but merely wondering out loud. People themselves may not even realise why they have that reaction.

You have a character like Geralt in the Witcher series (which I haven't played so I may be way off) who's sexuality seems to be a big part of who he is based on what I know of him. He dalliances with the women in his life seem to play a major role in his character. But people don't seem to see this as problematically shoe-horned in perhaps because it's so normal to them. Look at James Bond as another example or Kratos who even has a sex minigame. But when it's a gay character suddenly it's a big issue. It strikes me as odd.

 

[Inviusx]

There have been a metric fuckton of posts in this thread alone outlining why it's important. But sure, let's just ignore those because reasons.

It's not important to me at all. I'm just sharing my opinion like everyone else in this thread.

 

[m00h]

I hope Ellie will have a nice, heterosexual romance in part II. Because I love games with nice, heterosexual romances.

 

[Toni]

Seeing some responses on this thread in 2016 its eye-opening stuff, we have a long way to go for acceptance.

I hope they can also bring in other types of lgbt people to the world.

I'd love to see a bi-sexual Joel and see how ND tackles that. It would certainly "humanize" him for a lot people after the events of TLOU.

 

[MadJackChurchill]

Gay or straight, who cares it's a video game. Will it be fun to play? That's all that should matter.

Way to reduce any critical, multifaceted approach of media into "is it good?"; implying we can't discuss both themes and gameplay, and all of it, at the same time.

By your viewpoint, The Last of Us discussions should only be about the boring plank sections and Clicker sneakings.

 

[Glass Rebel]

gay to the power of gay?

Yes, I want Druckmann to tap into the gayforce.

It's not important to me at all. I'm just sharing my opinion like everyone else in this thread.

Your opinion on gay representation is irrelevant.

 

[Inuhanyou]

I'm not accusing anyone of bigotry but merely wondering out loud. People themselves may not even realise why they have that reaction.

You have a character like Geralt in the Witcher series (which I haven't played so I may be way off) who's sexuality seems to be a big part of who he is based on what I know of him. He dalliances with the women in his life seem to play a major role in his character. But people don't seem to see this as problematically shoe-horned in perhaps because it's so normal to them. Look at James Bond as another example or Kratos who has a sex minigame for Christ sake. But when it's a gay character suddenly it's a big issue. It strikes me as odd.

I would say its a problem for those properties as well.

Granted, from what i know of the Witcher, while it has prominent progressive females as well, but so many times, due to the medieval gritty nature of the game series, females are treated like sex objects for men and little else and generally speaking is off putting to myself. Witcher 3 is much more of step in the right direction as it features less of that and more empowerment in other ways.

007 is much less nuanced and in that its just a male power fantasy of a man getting a bunch of women into his bed and society being molded with the expectation that such a thing means he's a badass and worth something, when if it was a woman in his position, she would be considered a whorebag or a slut. The same goes for Kratos, which is why i'm glad they are redoing him in a much less dudebro and much more nuanced individual focused on emotional resonance.

I think there are far more important issues at hand for social progressive ideology than trying to see whether gay relationships or straight relationships can be more regressive in their overtly stereotypical aspects.

 

[John Kowalski]

It's not important to me at all. I'm just sharing my opinion like everyone else in this thread.

Your opinion that gameplay is all that should matter disregards representation of minorities that are historically mistreated, misrepresented and under represented. I think your opinion is due some updating, lest you wish to continue being the kind of person who thinks gay people don't matter.

 

[WetWaffle]

It's not important to me at all. I'm just sharing my opinion like everyone else in this thread.

If you don't find this important, and the first thing you think is "who cares", why are you in this thread? What higher power compelled you to click on this and post "lol, who cares". This is a hot issue whether you choose to ignore it or not.

 

[Zombine]

I caught the exact same vibes from the trailer and that is wicked freaking awesome.

 

[Tovarisc]

I'm not accusing anyone of bigotry but merely wondering out loud. People themselves may not even realise why they have that reaction.

You have a character like Geralt in the Witcher series (which I haven't played so I may be way off) who's sexuality seems to be a big part of who he is based on what I know of him. He dalliances with the women in his life seem to play a major role in his character. But people don't seem to see this as problematically shoe-horned in perhaps because it's so normal to them. Look at James Bond as another example or Kratos who even has a sex minigame. But when it's a gay character suddenly it's a big issue. It strikes me as odd.

People did have major issues with how Geralt's sexuality and prowess with women was showed in Witcher 1. Turned into its own joke and talking point about game, even developers came out and admitted that they fucked up. His sexuality and that stereotypical chasing of women is still there in Witcher 2 and 3, but it isn't such defining and prominent feature of him anymore.

Edit: Also like Inuhanyou mentioned, Witcher 2 and 3 have some strong female characters that demand respect from Geralt. Not some... sex objects for player to chase.

It can be big issue, was character hetero, bi, gay...

 

[Metalingus5150]

It's not important to me at all. I'm just sharing my opinion like everyone else in this thread.

Maybe you should put more thought into your post next time.

 

[adamsapple]

I hope The Last of Us Part II is also a good game too.

 

[tintin1029]

I say save that stuff for the 3rd game

I want the character to be introduced in this game, set up the chemistry, then have the crazy romance stuff in the next game.

If I don't like the chick Ellie is with, how am I supposed to like the relationship itself?

 

[SolicitorPirate]

People did have major issues with how Geralt's sexuality and prowess with women was showed in Witcher 1. Turned into its own joke and talking point about game, even developers came out and admitted that they fucked up. His sexuality and that stereotypical chasing of women is still there in Witcher 2 and 3, but it isn't such defining and prominent feature of him anymore.

It can be big issue, was character hetero, bi, gay...

I thought the backlash was due to the icky card collecting / binders full of women, not that Geralt slept around a lot?

 

[Crossing Eden]

Is it rude of me to say that I don't think homosexual relationships in a story can be effectively done exactly like a heterosexual relationship? My view of it is that stories with a heavy romantic element are usually trying to use our feelings of romance to drive some story. If you take that same romance and swap it out for a homosexual romance, I think the majority of people would just not have that emotional reaction that is desired by the storyteller.

That isn't me saying we shouldn't have homosexual relationships in stories. I think we should, and I think those relationships should be meaningful in the story. But I do have my doubts that we will ever have a story so heavily focused on romance as something like Romeo and Juliet with a homosexual couple that will yield the same emotional response from the general public as a heterosexual couple.

Do you think I am thinking about this issue in too simple terms?

Considering the amount of critically acclaimed films and novels that focus on homosexual romance and do it much better than most games handle heterosexual romances, you're projecting your own insecurity and passing it as the response of the general public, the gaming community and medium is so behind other mediums that it's astounding just reading the differences in gaming side and OT of this forum to any pertinent social issue.

 

[Shaanyboi]

And so you feel compelled to tell everyone what they should deem important... Good to know.

 

[Blackthorn]

Lol, suddenly the only thing people care about in a Naughty Dog game is the gameplay.

jenniferlawrenceokay.gif

 

[WhateverItTakes]

Fucking dammit I don't want the plot to be Ellie avenging her lover.

Cus Riley already fucking destroyed me and I can't live with the pain again!

 

[Emperor_Uriel]

Man, I'm sick of straight people's discomfort with queer people being masqueraded (especially to themselves) as progressive concern. Two things I want to say about this:

1. As a gay person, I'm really annoyed by the sentiment that gay characters' sexuality should just be a "sublte" trait that "doesn't define them." My sexuality absolutely friggin defines me. I think about the fact that I'm gay literally every single day. It defines who I love, the TV shows and comics I find myself drawn to, how I relate to society, what my politics are, how I view myself- my insecurities and my pride. It defines how people treat me. And It defines the community I find myself in, who my friends are and what my dating pool is- and our communities absolutely come to define us as people.

And this idea that our sexuality shouldn't define us is also a bullshit double-standard, because straight characters are allowed to have their sexuality define them all the time and nobody complains about it. straight people in the real world too. Straight people talk about their sexuality *all the time* and yet nobody complains that they are "letting" it define them. The only reason straight people don't realize how much your sexuality defines you is because you're all surrounded by people just like you. And when I see people say that gay characters like Ellie can't be too in-your-face, that her sexuality should be "sublte" like some kind of footnote in the textbook of her life, all I see is heterosexuals being uncomfortable.

Agree 100% with this part, but...

2. Gay people are a community and subculture, and we have shared practices that we use to express our identites- the way we dress for example. Yes, it's true that clothing is inherently neutral and anybody can wear what they want- but it seems that whenever gay people find a way to express themselves in a way that becomes a shared marker of queerness between us, y'all are complaining about "stereotypes." We can't let certain hairstyles, ways of dressing, etc. becomes markers of queerness, you say, lest we perpetuate stereotypes. But these "stereotypes" aren't just made up stuff, these are real queer people who are adopting styles of presentation to celebrate ourselves. I spend so much time in lesbian circles and so many girls proudly wear flannel as a way to express their sexuality, talking about how gay their fashion is. And yeah, of course plenty of queer women don't wear flannel and dress in ways you moght consider "straight." And no matter how you dress doesn't literally define your sexuality and you should dress however you like. But the fact is that for a sizable portion of the LGBT population, certain things become something we positively mark as being "gay" and for a lot of gay people that becomes a really important part of expressing themselves and loving themselves. And when we talk about these things we love that have become part of our shared gay culture, you get concerned straight people coming in warning us "But clothing and hobbies and music and hair don't have a sexuality!! Stop perpetuating stereotypes!" And you might be well-intentioned in that, but I can't help but feel this is another example of straight people being uncomfortable with us and expressing that discomfort in progressive language.

...I'm not totally with you on this.

Again, from a real psychological and sociological perspective, the style isn't a manifestation of gayness, but of freedom and confidence. If straight women weren't constantly pushed to strive for traditional femininity, they'd be wearing flannel just as much as anyone else. This is again proven with how powerful straight men adopted previously "gay" trends under the banner of "metrosexuality," while straight women are still looked upon with suspicion for presenting themselves in a more masculine manner.

This is why I'll always hold up Jack from Mass Effect as one of the best female characters out there: she's unapologetically butch while also unambiguously straight, proof that heterosexuality and strength of character are not mutually exclusive.

 

[Shaanyboi]

I say save that stuff for the 3rd game

I want the character to be introduced in this game, set up the chemistry, then have the crazy romance stuff in the next game.

If I don't like the chick Ellie is with, how am I supposed to like the relationship itself?

Is this a standard you expect of every character with a pre-existing relationship when a story starts? Did you care about Joel and Sarah's relationship with one another when she's in the game for about 10 minutes? Ellie will have lived ~5 years of her life. She will have developed relationships and grown within that time.

 

[psyfi]

I hope Ellie will have a nice, heterosexual romance in part II. Because I love games with nice, heterosexual romances.

"Totally inoffensive. Didn't feel challenged once, except in the gameplay. 10/10."

 

[soultron]

I say save that stuff for the 3rd game

I want the character to be introduced in this game, set up the chemistry, then have the crazy romance stuff in the next game.

If I don't like the chick Ellie is with, how am I supposed to like the relationship itself?

Ellie would be the one in the relationship, not you.

 

[Lunafreya Nox Fleuret]

Fucking dammit I don't want the plot to be Ellie avenging her lover.

There's really nothing to suggest this is happening yet.

 

[Crossing Eden]

It's not important to me at all. I'm just sharing my opinion like everyone else in this thread.

It's almost like it's important for a subset of people that constantly get shafted when it comes to representation in this medium especially in bigger budget triple A games and no one gives it a shit if it's not important to you OR that you only care about the gameplay, how often do you actually say that? "I just care about the gameplay." Likely only when it involves issues of minorities/LBGT getting more equal representation.

 

[Inviusx]

Came to share my opinion that it doesn't bother me if a video game character is gay or straight as long as the game is fun to play and I get called a homophobe.

Can someone please invent a time machine and take me back to 1998. Now I know how the native americans felt when they saw what the pilgrims did to their great country.

 

[pargonta]

if ND has something to say about that theme, or wants to write characters with that focus, that'll be cool.

But either way I will accept the game on it's own merits without bias.

 

[Hysteria]

I can agree to what Inuhanyou is saying as well.

But speaking on the individuals who just want 'good gameplay', for some even if the gameplay did look good in some demo or video, you'd still have comments on "why is that character gay? lol, no buy" this, that and the other.

Every time an LGBT character pops up its 'pandering' or it's 'an agenda'.
Why can't it just be a creative choice by the people creating the project?
Why does something gay have to feel 'natural' when some of the romance crammed into video game stories don't produce an ounce of emotion.

If someone was to interpret one of the many fantasy novels with gay leads and their lovers much like the witcher series, there' be a hell storm of angry fanboys.
I firmly believe that from what I see in the gaming community.

 

[Shaanyboi]

Came to share my opinion that it doesn't bother me if a video game character is gay or straight as long as the game is fun to play and I get called a homophobe.

Can someone please invent a time machine and take me back to 1998. Now I know how the native americans felt when they saw what the pilgrims did to their great country.

wtf

Firstly, you don't get to go "WHO CARES" when this thread is full of people expressing that they care, and then act like you're being inclusive.

Secondly, WTF at your second comment

 

[psyfi]

Came to share my opinion that it doesn't bother me if a video game character is gay or straight as long as the game is fun to play and I get called a homophobe.

Can someone please invent a time machine and take me back to 1998. Now I know how the native americans felt when they saw what the pilgrims did to their great country.

lmaooooo what

If you want to better understand people's critiques, read the thread.

also: lmaooooo what

 

[NightShift]

To the people saying "fine but it shouldn't define their character", weren't Ellie and Bill both defined by their love for some of the same sex? With Ellie especially, you find out that she absolutely would have sacrificed herself for the cure due to the death of Riley. The entire reason why Left Behind was made was to strengthen that choice by detailing close they were.

 

[Tovarisc]

I thought the backlash was due to the icky card collecting / binders full of women, not that Geralt slept around a lot?

Those cards pushed it far over the edge, but in general Witcher 1 handled it badly. In too many quests involving woman quest giver end "reward" was her giving into Geralt's suggestions and having sex with him. It was overdone and caused a lot discussion if it went too far, those cards just gave it extra shove.

 

[Blackthorn]

Came to share my opinion that it doesn't bother me if a video game character is gay or straight as long as the game is fun to play and I get called a homophobe.

Can someone please invent a time machine and take me back to 1998. Now I know how the native americans felt when they saw what the pilgrims did to their great country.

Well, 1998 was a great year for homophobes.

 

[soultron]

Came to share my opinion that it doesn't bother me if a video game character is gay or straight as long as the game is fun to play and I get called a homophobe.

Can someone please invent a time machine and take me back to 1998. Now I know how the native americans felt when they saw what the pilgrims did to their great country.

You're defensive, but look back at how you stated your opinion and think about how/why you got the response you did.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Came to share my opinion that it doesn't bother me if a video game character is gay or straight as long as the game is fun to play and I get called a homophobe.

Can someone please invent a time machine and take me back to 1998. Now I know how the native americans felt when they saw what the pilgrims did to their great country.

http://www.vomzi.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/free-wow-gif-777.gif
If it doesn't botehr you wouldn't feel the need to state something as stupid as "I only care about the gameplay." Also WOW at the bolded.

 

[Glass Rebel]

Came to share my opinion that it doesn't bother me if a video game character is gay or straight as long as the game is fun to play and I get called a homophobe.

Can someone please invent a time machine and take me back to 1998. Now I know how the native americans felt when they saw what the pilgrims did to their great country.

You might not be a homophobe but you sure are posting like one.

 

[Fallout-NL]

Is it rude of me to say that I don't think homosexual relationships in a story can be effectively done exactly like a heterosexual relationship? My view of it is that stories with a heavy romantic element are usually trying to use our feelings of romance to drive some story. If you take that same romance and swap it out for a homosexual romance, I think the majority of people would just not have that emotional reaction that is desired by the storyteller.

That isn't me saying we shouldn't have homosexual relationships in stories. I think we should, and I think those relationships should be meaningful in the story. But I do have my doubts that we will ever have a story so heavily focused on romance as something like Romeo and Juliet with a homosexual couple that will yield the same emotional response from the general public as a heterosexual couple.

Do you think I am thinking about this issue in too simple terms?

Seems to me like you lack the imagination maybe. I'm a heterosexual man (well, fairly), but I see and can experience the romance in all sorts of fiction regardless of the gender combinations involved.

 

[CornBurrito]

I love the replies basically asking why this would ever even come up in the game.

Gamers want gritty, mature, real stories. So it would make sense to not bring up a persons sexuality because real humans are so notoriously asexual.

 

[tintin1029]

Is this a standard you expect of every character with a pre-existing relationship when a story starts? Did you care about Joel and Sarah's relationship with one another when she's in the game for about 10 minutes?

That first scene made me super depressed, so I'd say yes.

I guess a pre-existing relationship wouldn't be bad either. Naughty Dog's amazing at doing that stuff.

I guess I just want to see the beginning of the relationship, like Joel and Ellie. I don't want some random character be introduced out of nowhere in the beginning and right off the bat be the most important person in Ellie's life. Not that it would be bad, I just want to see it come to life, you know what I mean?

Edit: If you're gonna have that be the focus, show us the beginning.

 

[Bronx-Man]

Can we all just get a grip please.

This game isn't going to be set on a beech in California. Ellie isn't going to be driving a VW Beetle convertible around with Duran Duran blaring out of the speakers drinking a frappuccino with a rainbow flag draped around her neck.

I'd play the fuck outta this.

 

[DedValve]

Man, I'm sick of straight people's discomfort with queer people being masqueraded (especially to themselves) as progressive concern. Two things I want to say about this:

1. As a gay person, I'm really annoyed by the sentiment that gay characters' sexuality should just be a "sublte" trait that "doesn't define them." My sexuality absolutely friggin defines me. I think about the fact that I'm gay literally every single day. It defines who I love, the TV shows and comics I find myself drawn to, how I relate to society, what my politics are, how I view myself- my insecurities and my pride. It defines how people treat me. And It defines the community I find myself in, who my friends are and what my dating pool is- and our communities absolutely come to define us as people.

And this idea that our sexuality shouldn't define us is also a bullshit double-standard, because straight characters are allowed to have their sexuality define them all the time and nobody complains about it. straight people in the real world too. Straight people talk about their sexuality *all the time* and yet nobody complains that they are "letting" it define them. The only reason straight people don't realize how much your sexuality defines you is because you're all surrounded by people just like you. And when I see people say that gay characters like Ellie can't be too in-your-face, that her sexuality should be "sublte" like some kind of footnote in the textbook of her life, all I see is heterosexuals being uncomfortable.


2. Gay people are a community and subculture, and we have shared practices that we use to express our identites- the way we dress for example. Yes, it's true that clothing is inherently neutral and anybody can wear what they want- but it seems that whenever gay people find a way to express themselves in a way that becomes a shared marker of queerness between us, y'all are complaining about "stereotypes." We can't let certain hairstyles, ways of dressing, etc. becomes markers of queerness, you say, lest we perpetuate stereotypes. But these "stereotypes" aren't just made up stuff, these are real queer people who are adopting styles of presentation to celebrate ourselves. I spend so much time in lesbian circles and so many girls proudly wear flannel as a way to express their sexuality, talking about how gay their fashion is. And yeah, of course plenty of queer women don't wear flannel and dress in ways you moght consider "straight." And no matter how you dress doesn't literally define your sexuality and you should dress however you like. But the fact is that for a sizable portion of the LGBT population, certain things become something we positively mark as being "gay" and for a lot of gay people that becomes a really important part of expressing themselves and loving themselves. And when we talk about these things we love that have become part of our shared gay culture, you get concerned straight people coming in warning us "But clothing and hobbies and music and hair don't have a sexuality!! Stop perpetuating stereotypes!" And you might be well-intentioned in that, but I can't help but feel this is another example of straight people being uncomfortable with us and expressing that discomfort in progressive language.

Congrats in putting into words what I've been feeling since TLOU Left Behind came out.

The "weirdness" (for lack of a better word that I can describe) of wanting sexuality to be subdued when in reality LGBTQ people act a lot like cis straight people. Sexuality is a defining trait but it is not THE defining trait yet it feels like it becomes that if we ever do a kiss or the story is save the prince (and your also a prince) or what have you.

Showing any type of non binary romance feels like flaunting when it isn't nor it shouldn't.

Like would Dante need to be subdued if he were gay and he threw the occasional flirtatious womanizing joke to male trish or male lady?

And for people who say it doesn't matter, it matters a fucking lot to me. Look at how subdued the relationship in avatar the legend of Korra was. Yet even that I felt so giddy to see because seeing any gay relationship (especially male/male or asexual, trans) is so fucking rare. Its one of the reasons I still love the show Shameless. Not the only reason mind you (its a good show imo) but its just nice to see non heterosexual relationships.

EDIT: Also I'm really glad it never caught on but I was seething when Left Behind came out and I saw "anti-trope" being thrown around for Ellie. It pissed me right the fuck off.

 

[Shaanyboi]

I'll bring up the Bill/Frank situation again.

Bill is an outwardly stoic character. His relationship with Frank serves to contrast the facade he puts up versus what's beneath it. It also shows that even during these kinds of trying times, people will inevitably look for intimacy.

Bill is also a character who is utterly focused on survival. His relationship, and the eventual failure thereof, serves to show what the consequence might be of putting (sorry for the schmaltz) survival over actually living your life.

There's probably more, but those are just connections I can quite easily make about just one aspect of Bill as a character, which is the relationship between him and Frank.

As long as I can make connections like that, they're doing a good job.

Oh and, I don't have a problem with her being explicit in her display or sexual interest in a woman, as long as her character has a well reasoned impetus to be showing sexual or relational interest at that point in the story to begin with, and as long as there is a greater point that carries through to either the plot or a sub-plot, or the telling of the narrative. It's no different that any other thing that happens in any other story.

I'm just going off of the cuff here, so this analogy might not entirely work, but: replace showing sexual/romantic interest with telling a joke. They both pretty explicitly relay an emotional state. So in terms of the story, does it feel right for the character to be making a joke right now? Does it even feel right for the character to tell jokes, full stop? Does telling a joke right now actually add anything to the overall narrative, or this subplot? Or does it serve whatever I'm trying to do with the pacing at this particular point?

That analogy really really really doesn't work.

You're going way out of your way to say "I hope her sexuality is written well," when that's a standard that literally every element of every game is held to, so I'm not sure why the qualifier in this instance was necessary.

 

[SirClinksAlot]

Came to share my opinion that it doesn't bother me if a video game character is gay or straight as long as the game is fun to play and I get called a homophobe.

Can someone please invent a time machine and take me back to 1998. Now I know how the native americans felt when they saw what the pilgrims did to their great country.

Wow. This is just amazing!

 

[psyfi]

That first scene made me super depressed, so I'd say yes.

I guess a pre-existing relationship wouldn't be bad either. Naughty Dog's amazing at doing that stuff.

I guess I just want to see the beginning of the relationship, like Joel and Ellie. I don't want some random character be introduced out of nowhere in the beginning and right off the bat be the most important person in Ellie's life. Not that it would be bad, I just want to see it come to life, you know what I mean?

I feel you. It'd be way more fun to watch it grow. But the love interest (if there is a love interest), can be introduced in TLOU2 and have a good, meaty contribution. Then they can continue the story in TLOU3.

 

[Trigonometrize.]

I would say its a problem for those properties as well.

Granted, from what i know of the Witcher, while it has prominent progressive females as well, but so many times, due to the medieval gritty nature of the game series, females are treated like sex objects for men and little else and generally speaking is off putting to myself. Witcher 3 is much more of step in the right direction as it features less of that and more empowerment in other ways.

007 is much less nuanced and in that its just a male power fantasy of a man getting a bunch of women into his bed and society being molded with the expectation that such a thing means he's a badass and worth something, when if it was a woman in his position, she would be considered a whorebag or a slut. The same goes for Kratos, which is why i'm glad they are redoing him in a much less dudebro and much more nuanced individual focused on emotional resonance.

I think there are far more important issues at hand for social progressive ideology than trying to see whether gay relationships or straight relationships can be more regressive in their overtly stereotypical aspects.

I'm with you on a lot of this. I especially think that it's not far to hear "well, straight people are allowed to be stereotypical/trope-y but homosexual people are supposed to be subtle?" when there's currently a HUGE backlash against a female character's typical role in media in terms of sexuality.

I'm kinda disappointed no one's really taking you up on your arguments and then the guy spouting off nonsense about pilgrims and time machines gets 5+ replies in a second. ha.

 

[Madame M]

I'm not the only one who saw the lesbian stereotyyyyypes

Spoiler

to the tune of I'm The Only One obvi

 

[Heckler456]

Why does something gay have to feel 'natural' when some of the romance crammed into video game stories don't produce an ounce of emotion.

I feel like you're asking "why can't gay people have a shittily implemented love story as well?". I don't think anyone likes it when anything is "crammed in" or "doesn't feel natural" in a story. In terms of heterosexual relationship, just look to the Hobbit with that love triangle. "The love interest" is also quite often a hated trope in many movies. The same counts whether it's gay or straight.

So, I mean, if your angle on this is to just have it be represented at any cost, even the ultimate quality of the story, then go right ahead. But I personally react the same way here than if Ellie were to potentially have a heterosexual relationship: As long as it work.

That analogy really really really doesn't work.

You're going way out of your way to say "I hope her sexuality is written well," when that's a standard that literally every element of every game is held to, so I'm not sure why the qualifier in this instance was necessary.

Nothing wrong with stating the obvious once in a while.

And I thought that analogy worked perfectly fine for explaining what I was trying to say.