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[Basketball]

I'd be ecstatic if Ellies sexuality took more of a dominating role.

You have no idea how giddy I get just seeing two gay people interact with each other let alone be allowed to have a relationship on any type of popular media. Even if its girls.

yes Naughty Dog make it super hot I mean gay

 

[Madness]

...At least, this is my hope. We don't know much at all about the new game, just that these characters are in the teaser, looking the way they do.

Article is a giant reach based on an image. It is pretty much the blog author listing her hopes and wants and writing if it a done deal. And then if it doesn't happen, will probably have articles on missed opportunity, so upset etc. It is pure speculation.

 

[Raylan]

I think Joel's in his late 40s in the first and this one is 5 years later.

Looked more like ~45. Ellie is 14. During the beginning of the game, he looked around ~30.

 

[Nzyme32]

‏@sapphicgeek

People are generally hugely ignorant to why representation of so many issues regarding all manner of genders and race are important to represent in all manner of media. They never realise how much they have / haven't benefited until something really resonates. But then there are the folk always catered to who will likely not truly understand it

 

[Platy]

...So why would that change if he were gay?

I mean, you're right. But why does Joel's sexual preference factor into that?

I don't think that had anything to do with him being straight. The fact that he ends up the way he does with Ellie shows that even if Sarah were his adopted daughter he'd still react similarly.

I never said anything would change if he was gay .... but the fact that Joel had a biological daughter is a HUGE plot point in the game.

"if joel was gay and sarah was adopted he still react similarly" is like "if ellie was straight and the girl she will meet was a boy she would still react similarly" =P

 

[LurkFish17]

Wasn't aware it was one or the other.

Gameplay needs to be done well first before moving on to anything else imo. People took that to mean something else.

 

[EdibleExplosives]

Hilarious that people don't want sexuality possibly getting in the way of gameplay for a game like TLOU. The first game was as good as it was because of the characters.
But please ND, don't expand upon a certain character trait because muh gameplay.

 

[strafer]

Ah ok, thanks. It was just weird that they didn't show his face.

It's not that he will change much during 5 years. He will basically look the same.

 

[HStallion]

Concentrate on gameplay, the world, the enemies, her revenge story, etc. Her being gay or not shouldn't be one of the main points in the game aka being "super gay"...... WTF

Honestly why not? Why can't she be out and proud? How will that actually affect the gameplay or the enemies or the world?

 

[Charamiwa]

If it's a direction they want to take, then I'll gladly accept it. But I won't blame them if they don't adress it or if she hooks up with a man.

Basically, I trust the writers.

 

[FinaruDensetsu]

Spoiler

Who is pregnant at the end of that UC4 teaser with Tlou American daughters then?

What are your referencing? I'm not familiar with this.

 

[Shaanyboi]

Of course it matters. But nothing should be forced into the narrative for the sake of representation. If Ellie is in fact gay and that is part of the intended narrative, nothing should sway them away from delivering it as such. But the adverse also exists. If there was no intention in exploring the ambiguity of her sexuality, it should not be forced for the sake of said representation.

Firstly, what's being forced? And why shouldn't you actively try to include broader representation?

 

[John Kowalski]

But, at least to someone who has watched just about every lesbian movie from the 1980s on (in a former life, I was a queer movie critic), that image evokes a specific identity. A lesbian identity—folksy, tough, working class—which is consistent with Left Behind and the person that Naughty Dog has been building since the first meeting with Ellie in the game proper.

Noticed this too, which i really liked.

Wow this thread is turning worse than i thought it would.

 

[QuantumBro]

While LGBT representation is great and I'm all for it, straight female playable protagonists with male love interests are somehow even rarer (seems like they're either gay or asexual), so I'd be totally cool with her hooking up with some dude in TLoU2, if only to make some manbabies squirm.

I hope Naughty Dog makes all their decisions on what will generate the most butthurt among manbabies, LGBT folks will understand.

I am not talking about a specific scene .... the game starts with Joel's daughter and the whole relationship about Joel and Ellie is about him finding "comfort" in being a fatherly figure to her since he could not protect his biological daughter.

Gay people can't have biological children or be a fatherly figure to someone?

 

[Astral Dog]

There's no need to worry if Ellie's homosexuality will be "handled well" in TLoU2. Naughty Dog has already proven they can make engaging well written characters that aren't just attempts at checking boxes. I'm excited to see how Ellie's character has developed in the new game.

Nate Drake? Samuel?
But anyways i think TLOUS will be fine

 

[AlexFlame116]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH let's try to avoid the manga version of Usagi Drop please...

Ah the memories...thanks for that...thought I almost forgot it finally.

If they do decide to go through with it for Ellie, then all I ask is for it to be subtle and impactful. Not loud and in your face like if there was a big sign on Ellie saying "By the way, I'm lesbian in case you forgot" cause that would get kind of annoying for me. Just quietly emotional or subtle.

 

[HardRojo]

I found Ellie being a lesbian cool because it was subtle and not a big deal.

If it becomes a focus point of the second game it would be disappointing I think.

Pretty much how I see it. I also loved the fact that they didn't outright tell you Bill was gay, so ultimately I'd have to disagree with this article and I actually believe Naughty Dog isn't trying to make lesbianism one of Ellie's biggest defining traits, in fact I'd say they want the opposite, they want it to be something that's just there, just as it happens with heterosexual characters.

 

[Joeku]

Kinda assuming things about me aren't you? I just want the game to be good first and foremost.

Concentrate on gameplay, the world, the enemies, her revenge story, etc. Her being gay or not shouldn't be one of the main points in the game aka being "super gay"...... WTF

This tone-deafness throws me off.

Like, if her partner is killed by fireflies and that is part of the thrust of her revenge, that makes sense, right?

What is the difference if that partner is a man or woman? If it is the latter, does that mean it was "thrown in your face"? The writing in TLOU is pretty much the best part. Her established character is homosexual. These things can absolutely work in concert in TLOU2.

 

[zsynqx]

Looked more like ~45. Ellie is 14. During the beginning of the game, he looked around ~30.

20 years later....

If he was 30 in the intro he was 50 in the main game.

We know from conversations with Ellie that Joel married young, university age. Assuming Sarah was born pretty early in the marriage, that would put him at late 20s in the intro.

 

[asagami_]

This thread is going to be so great as the Empathy thread.

Actually, NOW I am super interested in this game.

 

[Catvoca]

Article is a giant reach based on an image. It is pretty much the blog author listing her hopes and wants and writing if it a done deal. And then if it doesn't happen, will probably have articles on missed opportunity, so upset etc. It is pure speculation.

She's saying that Ellie was gay in the first one, so she hopes they deal with that it the second. She's also been a queer film critic and recognises that the way Ellie is represented in the trailer is consistent with the way queer people have been represented in film.

Your jump to "she'll probably be outraged and write articles about it when Ellie isn't" is also super fucking lame.

 

[Platy]

Gay people can't have biological children or be a fatherly figure to someone?

Of course they can. But if nothing changed except for the fact that Joel was a gay trans man who gave birth to sarah people would say that would be shoving the LGBT agenda in their faces

 

[Glass Rebel]

The point of a relationship between Ellie and whomever can't be that they're gay, just like being heterosexual isn't the point of the relationship between Elena and Drake. There has to be something more to it, just like there was something more to Bill and the relationship between Riley and Ellie.

Why?

Why can't she just have a relationship that is also gay?

Why does there need to be "more"?

 

[foxdvd]

But obviously, Druckmann was actually writing Ellie as a gay character.

Yeah I saw that quote after my post..so obviously that is going to influence the direction of the character...

But if he had not stated that he wanted her to be gay, I think it is unfair to millions of teenagers to just assume that a boy or a girl kissing someone, even passionately, makes them gay. Sexuality is complicated, and as we tear down discrimination and hatred...people are going to explore that part of themselves as teenagers with less fear....and self loathing.

 

[Bedlam]

I found Ellie being a lesbian cool because it was subtle and not a big deal.

If it becomes a focus point of the second game it would be disappointing I think.

Yup, fully agreed.

Loved how the aspect was realized in Left Behind but don't beat me over the head with it too bluntly. I want it to be a subtle, normal thing, not a blatant talking point for the sake of it.

Fortunately, I think the writers at ND understand this. Not sure about the writers at Waypoint, though.

Pretty much how I see it. I also loved the fact that they didn't outright tell you Bill was gay, so ultimately I'd have to disagree with this article and I actually believe Naughty Dog isn't trying to make lesbianism one of Ellie's biggest defining traits, in fact I'd say they want the opposite, they want it to be something that's just there, just as it happens with heterosexual characters.

.

 

[Mesoian]

I never said anything would change if he was gay .... but the fact that Joel had a biological daughter is a HUGE plot point in the game.

"if joel was gay and sarah was adopted he still react similarly" is like "if ellie was straight and the girl she will meet was a boy she would still react similarly" =P

...I'm not gonna touch that one.

Of course they can. But if nothing changed except for the fact that Joel was a gay trans man who gave birth to sarah people would say that would be shoving the LGBT agenda in their faces

...you probably stop too.

 

[HStallion]

Of course it matters. But nothing should be forced into the narrative for the sake of representation. If Ellie is in fact gay and that is part of the intended narrative, nothing should sway them away from delivering it as such. But the adverse also exists. If there was no intention in exploring the ambiguity of her sexuality, it should not be forced for the sake of said representation.

What is forcing it into the game? I highly doubt Ellie is going to be talking about fucking chicks left and right and waving a giant rainbow flag in the camera every chance she gets. I swear it sounds like someone of you thinking making a game more gay oriented somehow means they're going to dumb down the game mechanics.

 

[hampig]

I hope the Last of Us puts being a good game with a good story over sending any sort of message. Gay Ellie would make sense and be cool, but if it happens please let it feel natural.

 

[Raylan]

This tone-deafness throws me off.

Like, if her partner is killed by fireflies and that is part of the thrust of her revenge, that makes sense, right?

It makes totally sense. But check the OP. Making the game "super gay" sounds like it should be the MAIN thing in TLOU2. I mean, what? Don't force it. See TLOU:LB. It just happened and it was awesome.

 

[Glass Rebel]

Yup, fully agreed.

Loved how the aspect was realized in Left Behind but don't beat me over the head with it. I want it to be a subtle, normal thing, not a talking point.

Fortunately, I think the writers at ND understand this. Not sure about the writers at Waypoint, though.

what does this even mean

 

[StrongBlackVine]

I couldn't care less about Ellie's sexuality. Just make sure the writing and delivery is top notch wherever they take this.

 

[howdyjacker]

Why does this even Matter?

Agreed. Attaching imagined importance this early when nothing was promised....eh.

 

[EdibleExplosives]

what does this even mean

please don't shove gayness down the heteros' throats, please

 

[ronaldthump]

but joel is such a hot daddy.

I hope they don't go anywhere near romance/sexuality.

 

[Raylan]

20 years later....

If he was 30 in the intro he was 50 in the main game.

We know from conversations with Ellie that Joel married young, university age. Assuming Sarah was born pretty early in the marriage, that would put him at late 20s in the intro.

Ah, yeah, right. It was 20 years later. So yeah, late 20s. He should be around 48 with his grey beard

 

[Lunafreya Nox Fleuret]

What are your referencing? I'm not familiar with this.

Spoiler

At the end of UC4 in the final chapter there are a bunch of posters and one of them shows a woman pregnant with a gas mask and a gun. It says TLOU American Daughters on the poster but the artist can't talk about it. Basically, people think this is Ellie's mother but it can even be Ellie for all we know but how would she be pregnant if she's lesbian?

 

[kewlmyc]

I see Ellie with Joel over another woman, she's bi at most. It's stupid to focus on that stuff in a game though, leave it to the players imagination.

 

[Shaanyboi]

I never said anything would change if he was gay .... but the fact that Joel had a biological daughter is a HUGE plot point in the game.

"if joel was gay and sarah was adopted he still react similarly" is like "if ellie was straight and the girl she will meet was a boy she would still react similarly" =P

...what???

 

[ViolentP]

Firstly, what's being forced? And why shouldn't you actively try to include broader representation?

If there is no intention in exploring Ellie's sexuality in the games narrative, then it simply shouldn't be explored. If that lack of intention exists but they put it in anyway simply because people want broader representation, it will be forced.

A game like LoU tells a story. That story should be told as intended for better or worse. If they intend to explore it, then that's fantastic because it is a tale with that representation in mind and it will be delivered naturally and truthfully. If they don't, then that's fine too. That representation is best left to those with the honest intention of bringing light to the subject, honestly.

What is forcing it into the game? I highly doubt Ellie is going to be talking about fucking chicks left and right and waving a giant rainbow flag in the camera every chance she gets. I swear it sounds like someone of you thinking making a game more gay oriented somehow means they're going to dumb down the game mechanics.

Your leap in logic is baffling. It's your kind of mentality that makes this subject so difficult to discuss because you immediately believe anyone that doesn't see things in your light is an asshole.

 

[Cyborg]

Why does this even Matter?

People take gaming way to serious.

 

[Zeyphersan]

Guys guys guys, you clearly don't know how games are written. Game narratives (and really all narratives) come from the Story Well. It's this giant well that reaches into the center of the earth. The game director or writer comes along, dips their bucket into the well, and out comes the story, shiny and intact and full of white heteronormativity. Sometimes there may even be a gay character in there, but only if it's really subtle and not in your face to make you think about it too much. Sort of like a fun background thing.

But we all know the true risk here is forcing things in. Since we all know the narrative comes out full and complete (and isn't crafted by humans) whenever a person adds something to it they are forcing it in. This is especially risky when trying to add any representation, as the narrative is already done, so if you try to add in too many non-white or gay elements it disrupts the delicate balance! Suddenly you're forcing things in left and right and making people uncomfortable! Just let the representation come naturally from the Story Well and don't question anything and especially don't add things that aren't there originally.

 

[-griffy-]

"It would be annoying if they made a big deal out of Ellie being gay"

*meanwhile Geralt fucks every woman he crosses paths with*

 

[Hari Seldon]

20 years later....

If he was 30 in the intro he was 50 in the main game.

We know from conversations with Ellie that Joel married young, university age. Assuming Sarah was born pretty early in the marriage, that would put him at late 20s in the intro.

If he was 30 in the intro then he had his daughter at 16 which is extraordinarily young lol.

 

[psyfi]

In TLOU, making the game good isn't just about getting the sneak sneak and the shootbang right, it's also about focusing on character development and story. That's what we're talking about here. Anyone complaining about probably doesn't really understand the utter normativity of heterosexual representation. It's flagrantly and shamelessly added to games left and right. There are hundreds if not thousands of games that reference a character's heterosexuality. We can have one AAA game featuring a lesbian. We really can, it'll be okay. Maybe you'll learn something.

 

[Shaanyboi]

If there is no intention in exploring Ellie's sexuality in the games narrative, then it simply shouldn't be explored. If that lack of intention exists but they put it in anyway simply because people want broader representation, it will be forced.

A game like LoU tells a story. That story should be told as intended for better or worse. If they intend to explore it, then that's fantastic because it is a tale with that representation in mind and it will be delivered naturally and truthfully. If they don't, then that's fine too. That representation is best left to those with the honest intention of bringing light to the subject, honestly.

Do you need to explore someone's "straightness?" If Ellie has a partner, someone important to her, why can't that be justification enough for its inclusion?

 

[HStallion]

If there is no intention in exploring Ellie's sexuality in the games narrative, then it simply shouldn't be explored. If that lack of intention exists but they put it in anyway simply because people want broader representation, it will be forced.

A game like LoU tells a story. That story should be told as intended for better or worse. If they intend to explore it, then that's fantastic because it is a tale with that representation in mind and it will be delivered naturally and truthfully. If they don't, then that's fine too. That representation is best left to those with the honest intention of bringing light to the subject, honestly.

And having a protagonist who might very well happen to be gay isn't bringing light to the subject? I swear people make up some very elaborate reasons why being gay or touching on gay issues and subjects in gaming detracts from the game overall. They casually bring up Drake's heterosexuality in the the Uncharted series, sometimes not so casually as his marriage and relationship with Elena is a big part of the narrative. Why is it different for elements of homosexuality?

 

[Shrike_Priest]

As I posted earlier when it comes to this...14 year old girls kissing in a romantic way is not in itself what makes them gay. There are a lot of 14 year old boys and girls who experience a romantic encounters with the same sex and are not gay. 14 year old sexuality is way more complicated than that.

It was a game about two girls who hang out in an abandoned mall, listen to I've Got You Babe then kiss... Also, the writer has said repeatedly that Ellie was written as gay, at least in Left Behind. Not bi, not exploring, but gay. And it was released on fucking Valentine's Day.

I'm sorry, but she's gay.

Also note that TLOU also had a prominent male gay character.

The amount of rationalisation going on is crazy.

 

[Crossing Eden]

I hope the Last of Us puts being a good game with a good story over sending any sort of message. Gay Ellie would make sense and be cool, but if it happens please let it feel natural.

Ellie's already gay and there's nothing wrong with a positive message about LBGT people. You're willing to swallow any message except for when it comes to representation. Think about that for a second before saying that representing a gay woman might feel unnatural.

 

[Basketball]

"It would be annoying if they made a big deal out of Ellie being gay"

*meanwhile Geralt fucks every woman he crosses paths with*

in 3 ... naw

 

[Paracelsus]

In TLOU, making the game good isn't just about getting the sneak sneak and the shootbang right, it's also about focusing on character development and story. That's what we're talking about here. Anyone complaining about probably doesn't really understand the utter normativity of heterosexual representation. It's flagrantly and shamelessly added to games left and right. There are hundreds if not thousands of games that reference a character's heterosexuality. We can have one AAA game featuring a lesbian. We really can, it'll be okay. Maybe you'll learn something.

Not lately, I'd say. Not even jrpg are known for good classic love stories any longer. When was the last Tales that ended that way. Graces?