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[60EffPeeEss]

Sony don't like copying competitors features?

Come on - that's a ridiculous reason to withhold refunds.

That image is dumb as fuck. Those features added don't cost them money, they bring in money.

In terms of refunds? That's money lost. You don't even know the percentage of calls we get concerning refunds. The highers up are shitting it of losing all that cash, and as I said, it opens a can of worms of feature-begging too. For instance, we had a wave of back-compat begging for a while after Black Ops 2 got added to Xbox One, and that was totally unprompted by anything PS did.

 

[ArtHands]

This is why I don't understand why pop-gamer culture embraces going all digital so universally. That "who regrets going all digital" thread from a couple weeks ago was almost entirely filled with everyone saying all digital is perfect and anytime someone said they like physical, the mob would chastise them.

Physical will always make more sense from a value standpoint, period. No discussion required.

The reason why PSN doesn't offer refunds is so many people but digital despite the fact it makes zero fiscal sense, Sony has no reason to change. Sony is rolling in dough from digital sales

Digital versions should cost at least 25 percent less than physical releases

Sony is the only one who doesn't offer digital refund though.

 

[Tumle]

Am I wrong in thinking that if you by a game and don't like it, that's on you? Didn't think stores would accept returns of physical opened/played games.

Yea don't think stores refunds because a game wasn't to your taste..
Maybe some stores would refund some of the expenses if you found the game cheaper at another store, to give you it at the same price.. but that's the furthest I'd think a store would go..

 

[Malcolm9]

Better question, why can we still not change our PSN IDs

Keep on topic thanks.

 

[Dark-Cloudz]

That image is dumb as fuck. Those features added don't cost them money, they bring in money.

In terms of refunds? That's money lost. You don't even know the percentage of calls we get concerning refunds. The highers up are shitting it of losing all that cash, and as I said, it opens a can of worms of feature-begging too. For instance, we had a wave of back-compat begging for a while after Black Ops 2 got added to Xbox One, and that was totally unprompted by anything PS did.

That image shows that Sony have no problem copying competitors' features - which you said they were worried about. They can't be that worried about it.

When it comes down to it, you just explained why they won't have refunds - not about 'worrying about stealing features' - but it's all about the Benjamins.

But it's a false economy - for me anyway, as I haven't bought a new game since No Man's Sky. I explained that in the email I sent PSN; refund me £50, or I won't buy any more software. So they've lost a good £300 for the sake of £50.

That's bad business sense.

I will continue to buy PS4 exclusives off Ebay until they fix their broken refund system.

 

[nekkid]

How does Sony benefit from such a system? Be sure to list quantifiable benefits.

"I'm going to defend the indefensible by defining almost impossible prerequisites to any counter-argument"

 

[Tumle]

That image shows that Sony have no problem copying competitors' features - which you said they were worried about. They can't be that worried about it.

When it comes down to it, you just explained why they won't have refunds - not about 'worrying about stealing features' - but it's all about the Benjamins.

But it's a false economy - for me anyway, as I haven't bought a new game since No Man's Sky. I explained that in the email I sent PSN; refund me £50, or I won't buy any more software. So they've lost a good £300 for the sake of £50.

That's bad business sense.

So you threaten them?
Sorry but I don't see how that is ever a good strategy..

 

[arimanius]

Sony is the only one who doesn't offer digital refund though.

Nintendo doesn't either.

 

[Tapejara]

Am I wrong in thinking that if you by a game and don't like it, that's on you? Didn't think stores would accept returns of physical opened/played games.

People want Sony to at least adopt a refund system similar to the one Valve/EA/Microsoft uses, which is you that you can only refund if you've played less than two hours and/or it's been under a week (two weeks?) since you've bought it. While there are some games that are shorter than two hours (and this is why I think the refund system needs a bit of tweaking), in the case of most retail or big budget games it's not like someone could play through a forty hour game and then refund it.

Addressing your second point, I think it's worth pointing out that there's a very big difference between buying digital and buying retail. If I buy a game from Best Buy, open it, play it, and return it, that item has lost its value because it's now been opened. This isn't the case with digital, because by refunding in a digital marketplace the vendor/publisher/developer isn't losing stock or getting back an item that's depreciated in value, it's just a license.

 

[Aizen.S.Kennedy]

I mean ..... this basically.

 

[Malcolm9]

I bought a season pass that didn't work with a different region disc and they refused to give me a refund since I "downloaded" it. Pathetic. I've had an account since 2008 and have bought a gazillion number of games and stuff.

Isn't that your fault though, why didn't you buy the season pass on that regions store?

 

[Karu]

Just another small reason why I will look into ways - long term-speaking - of investing my money into other eco systems, for third party games and such.

 

[Dark-Cloudz]

So you threaten them?
Sorry but I don't see how that is ever a good strategy..

That was like email number 14 - after they refused, despite me having an account that had be going 7 years and I had never once asked for a refund and with over £1000 spent.

 

[Drillary Clinton]

Isn't that your fault though, why didn't you buy the season pass on that regions store?

Why does that matter? Should they not be able to simply exchange for the proper one? Nothing of value is even lost.

 

[Tumle]

"I'm going to defend the indefensible by defining almost impossible prerequisites to any counter-argument"

Ok maybe it's me having a hard time understanding the topic of the thread.. if they won't refund you if a game is broken or falsely advertised I can understand the outrage..
but because they won't refund you because you didn't like the game anyways or found a cheaper offer somewhere else after the purchase.. uhm how is that on Sony and not the buyer?
If other storefronts do that good on them.. but it's not really anything that is unlawful.. what happened to having some sort of responsibility for your own actions?

 

[hemo memo]

There is no point in having a 10 day refund on PSN as by the time you actually downloaded the game you'll already be outside of the eligibility period

lmao

but really, they're on top why should they if they're not forced to do it? Even if it's something ridiculous like 30 minutes play only, atleast the option is there.

 

[Dark-Cloudz]

Ok maybe it's me having a hard time understanding the topic of the thread.. if they won't refund you if a game is broken or falsely advertised I can understand the outrage..
but because they won't refund you because you didn't like the game anyways or found a cheaper offer somewhere else after the purchase.. uhm how is that on Sony and not the buyer?
If other storefronts do that good on them.. but it's not really anything that is unlawful.. what happened to having some sort of responsibility for your own actions?

Because Steam and Xbox do it is enough of a reason for them to lineup and enough of a reason for me to not use them.

 

[Tumle]

That was like email number 14 - after they refused, despite me having an account that had be going 7 years and I had never once asked for a refund and with over £1000 spent.

Ok sorry about that..and yea I would be pissed about that too.. but didn't the consumer agency in the U.K. Rule that it was not false advertising from hello games and Sony? Maybe that's why they thought they had the rights to not refund you.. but the game was also all kinds of broken in the first month..

 

[Tapejara]

Isn't that your fault though, why didn't you buy the season pass on that regions store?

To be fair, Sony's like the only one that digitally region locks things that way. Xbox One is completely region free digitally, Steam as well (any region locked content is specifically noted), and I would presume the same for uPlay and Origin. No idea about Switch as I don't own one yet.

Ok maybe it's me having a hard time understanding the topic of the thread.. if they won't refund you if a game is broken or falsely advertised I can understand the outrage..
but because they won't refund you because you didn't like the game anyways or found a cheaper offer somewhere else after the purchase.. uhm how is that on Sony and not the buyer?
If other storefronts do that good on them.. but it's not really anything that is unlawful.. what happened to having some sort of responsibility for your own actions?

It's not really about legality, but when the majority of your competitors are offering it people are going to start taking their business elsewhere. Much of my gaming purchases have moved over to Steam, partially due to the refund system. The PlayStation department isn't really hurting for money right now, so they have little incentive.

 

[ArtHands]

Its hard to accept the explanation that Sony doesnt want to implement a feature, such as backward compatibility/digital refund because they doesn't want to be seen as copying competitor. its too ridiculous

 

[Tumle]

Because Steam and Xbox do it.

Yes and that's good on them.. but that doesn't really tell me that Sony is doing anything shady..
If you buy a game and don't like it ( done that many times) that's on you.. but I understand if you would switch to the steam store or Xbox store and buy your games there from now on.. and if enough people do that then maybe sony will change there policy 😊

 

[60EffPeeEss]

The confusing thing for me is that people want that refund policy of Steam and Xbox Live, when that policy is STILL to the wallet, not to the card. Sure, you get to test the content, but reviews and other sources of "is it worth it?" are so multitudinous that you can't be thick enough to buy something without getting an opinion on it elsewhere first.

Also a key phrase people have blanked from my first post was "at least not for a while". I'm not saying its coming because I have zero information on that, but to implement it so soon after your major console competitor does it? Suicidal.

What if it causes a lot of pain for Microsoft? After all, they waited years after Steam implemented theirs. They probably wanted to wait to see how it panned out for them before implementing it themselves.

 

[Tapejara]

The confusing thing for me is that people want that refund policy of Steam and Xbox Live, when that policy is STILL to the wallet, not to the card. Sure, you get to test the content, but reviews and other sources of "is it worth it?" are so multitudinous that you can't be thick enough to buy something without getting an opinion on it elsewhere first.

It's not only to the wallet. I've refunded purchases to my CC on Steam before.

 

[Drillary Clinton]

The confusing thing for me is that people want that refund policy of Steam and Xbox Live, when that policy is STILL to the wallet, not to the card. Sure, you get to test the content, but reviews and other sources of "is it worth it?" are so multitudinous that you can't be thick enough to buy something without getting an opinion on it elsewhere first.

Wrong. Refunds on Steam go back to your original payment method. Also it takes little more than 5 minutes to complete a refund request.

 

[madjoki]

So what EU law do you think they violate?

Neither does Australia allow unconditional refunds.

Both EU & Australia do allow ask repair/refund for broken games though.

Am I wrong in thinking that if you by a game and don't like it, that's on you? Didn't think stores would accept returns of physical opened/played games.

I don't think they have to if you have unsealed the game. But some do for console games, because used games can be resold and it's good customer service.

Sony is the only one who doesn't offer digital refund though.

Not really. Most stores don't offer refunds for digital games. That for example sell digital codes for PSN/Origin/Steam/etc.

People want Sony to at least adopt a refund system similar to the one Valve/EA/Microsoft uses, which is you that you can only refund if you've played less than two hours and/or it's been under a week (two weeks?) since you've bought it. While there are some games that are shorter than two hours (and this is why I think the refund system needs a bit of tweaking), in the case of most retail or big budget games it's not like someone could play through a forty hour game and then refund it.

Addressing your second point, I think it's worth pointing out that there's a very big difference between buying digital and buying retail. If I buy a game from Best Buy, open it, play it, and return it, that item has lost its value because it's now been opened. This isn't the case with digital, because by refunding in a digital marketplace the vendor/publisher/developer isn't losing stock or getting back an item that's depreciated in value, it's just a license.

Origin refund policy is very different than MS/Valve (which is almost the same, expect MS doesn't apply to DLC like Valve does).

Origin refund policy applies to specific games only, for others they offer no refunds and it's 24 hours real time from first launch instead of tied to playtime. (72 hours for new games).

The confusing thing for me is that people want that refund policy of Steam and Xbox Live, when that policy is STILL to the wallet, not to the card. Sure, you get to test the content, but reviews and other sources of "is it worth it?" are so multitudinous that you can't be thick enough to buy something without getting an opinion on it elsewhere first.

Steam allows refunds to original payment method. (Don't know about Xbox).

 

[Tapejara]

Origin refund policy applies to specific games only, for others they offer no refunds and it's 24 hours real time from first launch instead of tied to playtime. (72 hours for new games).

Right, thanks for the correction!

 

[60EffPeeEss]

Well, when Steam first instituted the policy, I was only able to refund to my wallet. Can't remember what it was that I refunded, as its been that long ago.

 

[ArtHands]

The confusing thing for me is that people want that refund policy of Steam and Xbox Live, when that policy is STILL to the wallet, not to the card. Sure, you get to test the content, but reviews and other sources of "is it worth it?" are so multitudinous that you can't be thick enough to buy something without getting an opinion on it elsewhere first.

I believe you are wrong.
https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=6695-QIKM-7966

 

[ArtHands]

Neither does Australia allow unconditional refunds.

Both EU & Australia do allow ask repair/refund for broken games though.



I don't think they have to if you have unsealed the game. But some do for console games, because used games can be resold and it's good customer service.



Not really. Most stores don't offer refunds for digital games. That for example sell digital codes for PSN/Origin/Steam/etc.



Origin refund policy is very different than MS/Valve (which is almost the same, expect MS doesn't apply to DLC like Valve does).

Origin refund policy applies to specific games only, for others they offer no refunds and it's 24 hours real time from first launch instead of tied to playtime. (72 hours for new games).



Steam allows refunds to original payment method. (Don't know about Xbox).

Well i am following the context of OP of just speaking only for Steam/Xbox/PSN

 

[Toe-Knee]

Yea don't think stores refunds because a game wasn't to your taste..
Maybe some stores would refund some of the expenses if you found the game cheaper at another store, to give you it at the same price.. but that's the furthest I'd think a store would go..

Game do full refunds on games you don't like just so long as you do it within 24 hours.

 

[Tumle]

Game do full refunds on games you don't like just so long as you do it within 24 hours.

Oh ok😊 Well no store here where I live do😊

 

[AkIRA_22]

Because Sony hasn't been forced to yet basically.

Australia forces these companies to give refunds, the ACCC took Steam and EA to court and won. Sony just hasn't fucked up yet... It'll happen, and tell be taken to court, just like everyone else.

I should explain, this is for games that are actually broken, not just "I don't like it".

 

[NoKisum]

There's no refund policy because you absolutely need Life of Black Tiger to stay in your collection.

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

Because PSN is held together with tape and string and Sony isn't investing in it.

That's bullshit. The network has gotten markedly better since the PS4 released.

 

[pixellated_man]

I dunno, why was there no refund policy on xbox digital games up until very recently?

If Microsoft finally came round to refunds on digital games, I don't see why Sony won't eventually.

 

[Drillary Clinton]

There's no refund policy because you absolutely need Life of Black Tiger to stay in your collection.

Life of Black Tiger is definitely GOTY material

 

[luulubuu]

I just refunded the last 2 games I bought on steam. I can't go back to a no refund policy.

Is that, or wait until Games with Gold/PS Plus or a high discount, as a costumer I demand some kind of security when I buy games. Don't give me curators, give me the ability of refund games within limits. Everybody wins

 

[PeterGAF]

Nintendo doesn't either.

I don't think anyone wants their online platform compared to Nintendo. That can't mean anything good.

 

[Wireframe]

I`d trade in FFXV for 5$ right now. Sony needs to get on this.

Awful bait

 

[Hairsplash]

There is no point in having a 10 day refund on PSN as by the time you actually downloaded the game you'll already be outside of the eligibility period

ROFL, (that games take forever to load, true on 25/10) but not true for me... i downloaded 1400 GB of games from the PSN, overnight on a 250/20 connection... 11PM-2AM 112GB, may 8-9 ,17... 2AM - 8AM 649GB 8am -2am and the rest approx 551GB...

And because the external drive that was hooked up to the rear port crashed, (sshd 2TB 1Amp? too much for the rear USB?) so another 500 GB each night from 11pm -3am.. (BTW, the SSHD is toast)

The point is either my location allows a fast connection to PSN, or you need a faster internet connection...

 

[specdot]

There is no point in having a 10 day refund on PSN as by the time you actually downloaded the game you'll already be outside of the eligibility period

Sony allowing refunds would be like them admitting they've sold you a bad product. That's a loss of face. Honor and shame are huge parts of it.

Hehe. You guys. Don't worry y'all. All your wishes will come true soon enough...when they drop the PS5.

 

[Budi]

Because Sony isn't your friend. There should be an article about this so people would realize it!

 

[SmokedMeat]

Sony is the only one who doesn't offer digital refund though.

Nintendo offers digital refunds?

 

[hiro_x]

Nintendo offers digital refunds?

Nintendo did a refund on my NBA playgrounds yesterday. Though they said it's a one time thing. I was credited 19.99 on my eshop account.

 

[tenderbrew]

ROFL, (that games take forever to load, true on 25/10) but not true for me... i downloaded 1400 GB of games from the PSN, overnight on a 250/20 connection... 11PM-2AM 112GB, may 8-9 ,17... 2AM - 8AM 649GB 8am -2am and the rest approx 551GB...

And because the external drive that was hooked up to the rear port crashed, (sshd 2TB 1Amp? too much for the rear USB?) so another 500 GB each night from 11pm -3am.. (BTW, the SSHD is toast)

The point is either my location allows a fast connection to PSN, or you need a faster internet connection...

This is not what I'd say is the common experience. I have 125 down and it's wired. Still slow and not slow on other things.

 

[Atomski]

Sony gona Sony..

Or Sony time.

Maybe it's like if you can change your name it will break PSN.

 

[SmokedMeat]

Nintendo did a refund on my NBA playgrounds yesterday. Though they said it's a one time thing. I was credited 19.99 on my eshop account.

We're talking real refund systems in place. Not a one time favor deal which Sony does as well.

Both Sony and Nintendo need to step up their game in this regard.

 

[leeh]

The confusing thing for me is that people want that refund policy of Steam and Xbox Live, when that policy is STILL to the wallet, not to the card. Sure, you get to test the content, but reviews and other sources of "is it worth it?" are so multitudinous that you can't be thick enough to buy something without getting an opinion on it elsewhere first.

Also a key phrase people have blanked from my first post was "at least not for a while". I'm not saying its coming because I have zero information on that, but to implement it so soon after your major console competitor does it? Suicidal.

What if it causes a lot of pain for Microsoft? After all, they waited years after Steam implemented theirs. They probably wanted to wait to see how it panned out for them before implementing it themselves.

I'm a bit baffled at some of the posts in here, why would you argue for them not having a bog standard policy which, let's be honest, all the 3 console guys should of implemented years ago.

Its like corporate Stockholm syndrome.

 

[LewieP]

Remember when folk wanted refunds for No Man's Sky and Sony's response was "email Hello Games and get them to admit that their game is defective".

I bet receiving those emails was fun for Hello Games!

(retailers have refund policies because the net impact of refund policies is to increase revenue).

 

[CJY]

lmao

but really, they're on top why should they if they're not forced to do it? Even if it's something ridiculous like 30 minutes play only, atleast the option is there.

Maybe the devs can outline their own "grace period".

Regarding Sony not wanting to be seen copying the competition and not needing to do anything because they're ahead. Well, waiting until they fall behind again is not a good look either.

"Good artists copy, great artists steal"

I know I haven't bought any games on PSN for months now since Xbox announced their refund feature and also prior to that. I did buy polybius to support the Jeff minter' work and farpoint physical. No more gambles on indies or AAA titles for me. I'm done. Refund or nothing. The Xbox is looking mighty tempting with that UHD drive. I think the second half of this gen is going to be verrry interesting to see how it plays out.