It's pretty sad to see a great series like Angel Beats attacked again and again, rarely with any acknowledgement that the hatred is entirely personal opinions and isn't representative of the show's general popularity or overall quality...
I mean, when I dislike something I certainly say so, but I do try to think about an objective viewpoint too, about the overall quality of the show irrespective of my dislike for it. I know that's hard sometimes, certainly true for everyone, but I do try... that's entirely absent from posts like this.
Of course I'm biased, given that Angel Beats was one of my three favorite animes of 2010 (probably #2 behind Sora no Woto), but still, it's worth saying again.
It's pretty sad to see a great series like Angel Beats attacked again and again, rarely with any acknowledgement that the hatred is entirely personal opinions and isn't representative of the show's general popularity or overall quality...
I mean, when I dislike something I certainly say so, but I do try to think about an objective viewpoint too, about the overall quality of the show irrespective of my dislike for it. I know that's hard sometimes, certainly true for everyone, but I do try... that's entirely absent from posts like this.
Of course I'm biased, given that Angel Beats was one of my three favorite animes of 2010 (probably #2 behind Sora no Woto), but still, it's worth saying again.
There's been plenty of objective criticism of Angel Beats. It's a tone-flipping mishmash of genres with no real flow or logical construction with the typical contrived & manipulative Key script and absolutely horrifyingly awful visuals. Pass.
There's been plenty of objective criticism of Angel Beats. It's a tone-flipping mishmash of genres with no real flow or logical construction with the typical contrived Key script and absolutely horrifyingly awful visuals. Pass.
Criticisms like that are from people who dislike the style and miss the point, pretty much. It doesn't say much about how good or bad the show actually is. It's got tone-flipping? Yes, true. That's one of the major points about the show. If you hate it, of course I can see you hating the show... but that does NOT mean it was done badly, it wasn't. It just means you dislike it!
As for the scripts, Key's scriptwriting is generally their strongest point, for sure, which is probably why the Key haters here have made that the centerpoint for their hatred. That doesn't make their writing any weaker, it just means you dissent on its quality, versus people like me who like it.
Criticisms like that are from people who dislike the style and miss the point, pretty much. It doesn't say much about how good or bad the show actually is. It's got tone-flipping? Yes, true. That's one of the major points about the show. If you hate it, of course I can see you hating the show... but that does NOT mean it was done badly, it wasn't. It just means you dislike it!
Uh, no. The type of tone-flipping in Angel Beats is always a bad thing. It's basic editing and screenwriting stuff that's been laid out for ages completely ignored.
There's been plenty of objective criticism of Angel Beats. It's a tone-flipping mishmash of genres with no real flow or logical construction with the typical contrived & manipulative Key script and absolutely horrifyingly awful visuals. Pass.
The concert scenes weren't bad, but then, that only makes the rest of the anime look worse by default (and prove that they could have made it all good, had they wanted to).
The typical argument by those who defend Angel Beats is that it would have been actually coherent had it run for 26 episodes. I see no evidence for such baseless speculation.
Objectively, basically every part of Angel Beats that isn't the OP or the rocket chair scene is really badly done. I don't like KEY's stuff but it's easy to admit that KyoAni's adaptions at least look and sound good.
Objectively, basically every part of Angel Beats that isn't the OP or the rocket chair scene is really badly done. I don't like KEY's stuff but it's easy to admit that KyoAni's adaptions at least look and sound good.
Uh, no. The type of tone-flipping in Angel Beats is always a bad thing. It's basic editing and screenwriting stuff that's been laid out for ages completely ignored.
Yep, and for the most part I can't think of a single good show that utilizes that kind of tone-flipping, I mean there is plenty of good stuff that is both comedic and serious in nature, but it always shifts on a episode-by-episode basis, never throughout the ENTIRE episode which is a bad thing IMO.
Also you know a another piece of work that had annoying tone-flipping? the star wars prequels.
Uh, no. The type of tone-flipping in Angel Beats is always a bad thing. It's basic editing and screenwriting stuff that's been laid out for ages completely ignored.
Angel Beats does tone-flipping better than just about any anime I've seen. Often it is a problem when shows flip back and forth between serious and tragic, but Angel Beats shows how it can be done right. The contrast between the overly depressing Key drama on the one hand and the silly comedy on the other might seem extreme, but they came up with a great setting to explain how both can coexist, and the series as a whole balanced both quite well.
I mean, sure, maybe the humor could have been better at times, but Key has a lot more experience with tragedy than comedy so I can excuse a bit of that...
As for the visuals, it's one of Key's most stylish and clearly high-budget shows. And yes, I assume this means you'll post that one screenshot again. That's pretty much meaningless and ignores all of the other ways the show shows off budget Key's early animes certainly didn't have. The show looked pretty good.
I was liking it along the way, despite how depressing the characters' backstories were at times, but it's the ending that really sealed it as #2 for the year, above, say, Katanagatari. Such a sweet ending, they deserved it.
The concert scenes weren't bad, but then, that only makes the rest of the anime look worse by default (and prove that they could have made it all good, had they wanted to).
The typical argument by those who defend Angel Beats is that it would have been actually coherent had it run for 26 episodes. I see no evidence for such baseless speculation.
Yep, and for the most part I can't think of a single good show that utilizes that kind of tone-flipping, I mean there is plenty of good stuff that is both comedic and serious in nature, but it always shifts on a episode-by-episode basis, never throughout the ENTIRE episode which is a bad thing IMO.
Also you know a another piece of work that had annoying tone-flipping? the star wars prequels.
As for the visuals, it's one of Key's most stylish and clearly high-budget shows. And yes, I assume this means you'll post that one screenshot again. That's pretty much meaningless and ignores all of the other ways the show shows off budget Key's early animes certainly didn't have. The show looked pretty good.
Angel Beats does tone-flipping better than just about any anime I've seen. Often it is a problem when shows flip back and forth between serious and tragic, but Angel Beats shows how it can be done right. The contrast between the overly depressing Key drama on the one hand and the silly comedy on the other might seem extreme, but they came up with a great setting to explain how both can coexist, and the series as a whole balanced both quite well.
As for the visuals, it's one of Key's most stylish and clearly high-budget shows. And yes, I assume this means you'll post that one screenshot again. That's pretty much meaningless and ignores all of the other ways the show shows off budget Key's early animes certainly didn't have.
Gintama seems to be comedy first, in which case the tone flipping is done not to change the actual tone but for comedic effect or at least saves the drastic changes in tone for a new episode rather than doing it in between an episode in progress? I don't know. I haven't seen it. But if it doesn't do it like that then it probably isn't actually good.
Since it's just a condensed version of both, I imagine not.
This could just be my personal preference but I think Diebuster's OST is substantially better than Gunbuster's, which outside of a few tracks is some rather mediocre '80s stuff.
No, it was clear long before Porco Rosso that Miyazaki has a tendency to be "unfocused" in his screenwriting. This isn't always a bad thing, in proper doses, but it's definitely possible for it to lead to disaster if you don't keep it in check, which is what happened with Howl.
Gintama seems to be comedy first, in which case the tone flipping is done not to change the actual tone but for comedic effect or at least saves the drastic changes in tone for a new episode rather than doing it in between an episode in progress? I don't know. I haven't seen it. But if it doesn't do it like that then it probably isn't actually good.
Usually it switches from comedy to more serious tone and vice-versa during your average episode. Sometimes it's done for comedic effect, other times it's done to leave a rather poignant feeling by the end of the episode. There are also "serious arcs" introduced every now and then mostly to flesh out the characters involved and they still manages to slip in humorous moments every now and then. They seem to have done an incredible job handling the tonal shifts from what I've seen so far (first 100 eps) as they've never felt out of place.
When I first started this show, I didn't exactly have a high opinion of it. The characters were jerks and the plot moved at a very slow pace with unnecessary filler. However, there were moments of brilliance that kept me watching even if some scenes annoyed the hell out of me.
However, I can no longer talk about the redeeming values of this show because recent events have made me incredibly angry. Few fictional pieces of work will actually make me angry, but this just happens to be one of them.
From like 20-25 or something, the show became really good. Real consequences were starting to show for the actions of the characters.
Renton realizes he has been killing people and runs away, leaving Gekkostate in a deserved state of despair. Seeing them suffer after the way he was treated was pretty satisfying, especially with Holland. Not only that, but the kid ends up with the most likable duo in the show. Seeing Ray and Charles interact with Renton put a smile on my face. Previously the only sympathetic character in the show had finally found a bit of happiness in a comfortable family with a clean ship and kind replacement parents.
However, that didn't last. Because he had to
chase after a bullshit romance, he left the only place of mutual understanding he'd ever experienced. And once he gets back to Gekkostate, what happens? They throw him in the fuckin brig. He left a loving home for this kind of abuse? Yeah, Eureka is happy to have him back, but Holland being a fucktard and an all around asshole just made it painful to watch.
But nothing could prepare me for the events that would follow.
The only characters that I legitimately liked get killed, by a main character no less. Renton's reaction to Charles death was bad enough, but Ray's and the aftermath was just awful. He had the option to get revenge on his replacement parent's killer, yet instead, he saved him! A normal breakneck reaction would be to let the fucker die. Why not? Neither Holland nor the rest of the Gekkostate respects Renton nor were they even being sensitive when speaking to him. Talho selfishly asks Renton to save him while the rest of the crew just doesn't give a shit.
And the biggest bit of bullshit of all is the reason for the war in the first place and Renton's reaction to it. He's willing to
fight the whole world for a no-personality alien thing girl.
Is it romantic? Yeah, in the most douchebag way possible. When you're willing to
let other loved ones die for that, you know you have problems and probably lack the kind of empathy you need to get through life.
Now all of this wouldn't be so bad if the portrayal reflected it. But it doesn't. Everyone in Gekkostate has lost all sympathy, yet they are still portrayed as fun-loving rebels fighting for a noble cause. Even Renton, who I could at least tolerate, I can only see as an asshole that
no longer puts any weight into lives other than Eureka's. It would actually be really cool as a sort of "start of darkness" thing where Renton was willing to do anything for love and became a major villain.
The way it happened with (Guilty Crown spoilers)
Shu was great and had it happened here, it would have been the opposite reason with the same outcome and would be amazing.
But nope, Renton gets a super sympathetic portrayal even after this shit. He and the rest of Gekkostate are villains and they should be treated as such.
The only thing keeping me watching now is promise of more despair for Holland. I don't think I've wanted a character to suffer this much since forever. He is a jealous, irresponsible pedophile and bad things should happen to him. If he gets a happy ending, I will declare this one of the worst shows I have watched all the way through.
Pretty much the opposite reaction I had to the series. *shrugs* Each to their own. I don't believe it's even possible for me to hate a series. More than likely I'd just stop watching long before I got to that point.
Gintama seems to be comedy first, in which case the tone flipping is done not to change the actual tone but for comedic effect or at least saves the drastic changes in tone for a new episode rather than doing it in between an episode in progress? I don't know. I haven't seen it. But if it doesn't do it like that then it probably isn't actually good.
Gintama has this mix of comedic, dramatic, and serious that just "flows". There are the comedy episodes and there are the serious episodes. The thing is there can be that one moment of comedy or serious injected and never does it seem jarring and out of place. It simply works.
Gintama seems to be comedy first, in which case the tone flipping is done not to change the actual tone but for comedic effect or at least saves the drastic changes in tone for a new episode rather than doing it in between an episode in progress? I don't know. I haven't seen it. But if it doesn't do it like that then it probably isn't actually good.
Gintama does use tone flipping for comedic effect at times, but there's also actual tone flipping in some stories. The problem with something like Angel Beats is that the "comedy" happening in more serious situations is generally just unrelated gags, forced upon the viewer for whatever reason with exaggerated effects and such.
When Gintama does have a bit of comedy in the middle of a serious episode, it's generally just from the seemingly absurd nature of some event going on, rather than a random visual gag forced upon the viewer.
Gintama seems to be comedy first, in which case the tone flipping is done not to change the actual tone but for comedic effect or at least saves the drastic changes in tone for a new episode rather than doing it in between an episode in progress? I don't know. I haven't seen it. But if it doesn't do it like that then it probably isn't actually good.
No it definitely does it within the episode and not just for comedic effect (though that is often why it's done).
Watch episode 188. It's a standalone episode that requires no knowledge of the series, but it does tone flipping extremely well and is one of the best written episodes of any anime ever IMO.
Nonsense! It was a touching story of two siblings who grew apart coming to a better understanding of one another, and vowing to maintain this reconciliation by engaging in wholesome and friendly family activities.
This seems like a good opportunity to say that we can have this kind of animated shorts posted in one dedicated thread (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=414231) to share them with the rest of the forum, and also to later revisit them more easily. It is a better solution overall and this could help to revive more frequently such an amazing topic...
Well, he didn't say specifically why he was discontent with MADHOUSE, right? Maybe he actually wanted something of what Miri said... what is his long term plan? Remaining as obscure objectives...
No, it was clear long before Porco Rosso that Miyazaki has a tendency to be "unfocused" in his screenwriting. This isn't always a bad thing, in proper doses, but it's definitely possible for it to lead to disaster if you don't keep it in check, which is what happened with Howl.
I think her dedication to her cosplay is quite endearing.
So, instead of the normal introduce a new character every episode, we get formally introduced to three new girls. The loli nun which has quite a squeaky voice. The Totally Not a Girl! guy who dresses up as a maid and has pains in Not Her but his heart at the end of the episode. And, the genius who likes robotic BL. Despite how quickly they were introduced, the episode was still pretty enjoyable, and if their new thing is to spend some time each episode to read outloud eroge scenes, I'm all for it.
Yes the low scores reflect that but they are also ranked in the proper order. I would say AniDB is a better assessor of the talent of anime shows in comparison to you people
Milky Holmes is far too low on this chart.
One ranking that is so inaccurate really invalidates the chart entirely.
Edit: This is of course fictional as not the same people have voted for every show, but assuming they committed such a grave mistake, their whole ability to judge animated shows seems questionable.
Nise 8 and it's not even funny anymore how much more substance Bakemonogatari had. This episode was just plain stupid and somehow I don't have the feeling it'll get better during the next few episodes.
Thing is that the Moon Phase OP has a nice idea behind it. Obviously a lot of the visual gags are lost on us filthy gaijin who aren't intimately familiar with the legend of Kaguya Hime or whatever, but even if Nekomimi Mode is particularly vapid as a song the idea behind the OP visuals is at least an interesting one.
Milky Holmes is far too low on this chart.
One ranking that is so inaccurate really invalidates the chart entirely.
Edit: This is of course fictional as not the same people have voted for every show, but assuming they committed such a grave mistake, their whole ability to judge animated shows seems questionable.
I thought the farm episode was quite good (basically Milky Holmes in a nutshell and as such a good reintroduction for a second season). The second episode seemed unnecessary.
However the third episode was everything that makes this show outstanding.
Edit: I might be biased since the first season was one of my favorites in 2010 (behind Tatami Galaxy and hmmm I really have not watched much from that year).
I thought the farm episode was quite good (basically Milky Holmes in a nutshell and as such a good reintroduction for a second season). The second episode seemed unnecessary.
However the third episode was everything that makes this show outstanding.
The typical argument by those who defend Angel Beats is that it would have been actually coherent had it run for 26 episodes. I see no evidence for such baseless speculation.
