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[Card Boy]

Hmmm

Shitty quality pic aside this is pretty blatant and i can see why Wizards is sueing now, i was quick to defend the Hex guys before.

Honestly all that extra stuff is certainly exciting and why I'm interested in Hex, but I mean

The fundamental mechanics are really damn identical.

Also, these are the same card:

ok dam these guys are screwed lol. Even down to the same mana cost, damage and effect hahaha.

 

[FieryBalrog]

As mentioned previously the game terms are a literal one-to-one translation of MTG:
game zones (leaving aside Hand and Play as "obvious"):
Stack -> Chain (most other CCGs don't use MTG's stack system, btw)
Exile -> Void
Graveyard -> Graveyard (lol)

card types:
Sorcery -> Basic Action
Instant -> Quick Action (nice one guys)
Enchantment -> Constant
Creature -> Troop
Artifact -> Artifact
Land -> Shard

mechanics:
Haste -> Speed
Trample -> Crush
First Strike -> Swiftstrike (they even kept the exact timing structure of MTG's "first strike vs regular" combat, which is a bit silly because it's one of the clunkiest things about MTG combat).
Cannot be blocked except by black or artifact creatures -> Cannot be blocked except by "blood" or artifact creatures (yes, really)

Yes I'm aware that the mana system is mildly different. So different that it still includes:
The Color Wheel, with 5 Colors of White/Blue/Black/Red/Green. (Oh wait, black is "purple" now. Massive innovation)
Getting Mana Screwed/Flooded

Mechanical division of effects among colors:
white-> mass destruction, prevent damage, army of small creatures
red -> direct damage, spell copying, haste (sorry, "speed") creatures
green -> mana (sorry, "shard") production, big creatures, growth effects
black -> trade life for resources like cards, creature kill effects, discard
blue -> draw cards, tap effects, counterspells, copy effects

It's all rather blatant.

 

[Card Boy]

I don't mechanics being copied across games as i feel there shouldn't be a monopoly on gameplay elements but when they are blatantly copying cards down to the same stats and similar art/name then thats pretty low and dirty.

 

[FieryBalrog]

Except blood is not black

Um. http://imgur.com/a/nHV7g

Let's see! Instead of paying life for cards, you... pay life for cards. Instead of having creature kill effects, you have creature kill effects. Instead of Raise Dead, you have... Raise Dead Call The Grave. Instead of discard effects, you have discard effects. Instead of Corrupt, you have Corrupt Terrible Transfer.

So... I'm not sure how this statement can be true.

 

[Chariot]

To anyone confused about which game is copying which, I'll just leave this here:
http://imgur.com/a/nHV7g

Also the rules are basically a straight lift of MTG's comprehensive rules. Including the exact structure of a turn, the game zones, the stack, and most of the keywords.There are some new things, all of which are "digital card-game mechanics" that couldn't exist in MTG, so kudos for that. That doesn't, however, stop it from being a fan-made expansion for MTG that's marketed as a separate game.

This is not true for Pokemon, YuGiOh, Hearthstone, etc. It's not impossible at all to make a fantasy or magic-themed TCG that is original. Cryptozoic just didn't try.

The worst thing are the mana cost that seem always the same... why?

 

[Card Boy]

The worst thing are the mana cost that seem always the same... why?

They thought us nerds wouldn't notice.

 

[TAJ]

The worst thing are the mana cost that seem always the same... why?

Because if they made their own they'd have to pay people to play test them for balance. Better to just let WotC eat all the development costs.

 

[RubberJohnny]

I thought it was pretty common knowledge that Hex was MtG++, it certainly came up a lot. They even had a Lotus, which they advertised as being like a Black Lotus.

I don't want to get into copyright and patent talk, because there's nothing worse than the misinformation and "no it's actually this way" than that on a forum; but it's clear Hex borrows a lot.

 

[Shinjica]

Because if they made their own they'd have to pay people to play test them for balance. Better to just let WotC eat all the development costs.

This would be true if every card are the same as Magic

 

[Brashnir]

As mentioned previously the game terms are a literal one-to-one translation of MTG:
game zones (leaving aside Hand and Play as "obvious"):
Stack -> Chain (most other CCGs don't use MTG's stack system, btw)
Exile -> Void
Graveyard -> Graveyard (lol)

card types:
Sorcery -> Basic Action
Instant -> Quick Action (nice one guys)
Enchantment -> Constant
Creature -> Troop
Artifact -> Artifact
Land -> Shard

mechanics:
Haste -> Speed
Trample -> Crush
First Strike -> Swiftstrike (they even kept the exact timing structure of MTG's "first strike vs regular" combat, which is a bit silly because it's one of the clunkiest things about MTG combat).
Cannot be blocked except by black or artifact creatures -> Cannot be blocked except by "blood" or artifact creatures (yes, really)

Yes I'm aware that the mana system is mildly different. So different that it still includes:
The Color Wheel, with 5 Colors of White/Blue/Black/Red/Green. (Oh wait, black is "purple" now. Massive innovation)
Getting Mana Screwed/Flooded

Mechanical division of effects among colors:
white-> mass destruction, prevent damage, army of small creatures
red -> direct damage, spell copying, haste (sorry, "speed") creatures
green -> mana (sorry, "shard") production, big creatures, growth effects
black -> trade life for resources like cards, creature kill effects, discard
blue -> draw cards, tap effects, counterspells, copy effects

It's all rather blatant.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfE98T10hu0#t=40s

 

[Kenaras]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfE98T10hu0#t=40s

Hah! I knew I'd seen a movie scene which summed up the situation, but I couldn't remember what it was. I was wracking my brain trying to think of it. This was it; thank you.

 

[danmaku]

On one side, you have a big company trying to bully a competitor out of the market. On the other side you have a lazy Zynga style rip-off. They both look like assholes.

But at least I discovered that Netrunner is still alive! Thanks, ultron87!

 

[Spiritreaver]

Will be a shame to see Hex go or its already snail speed development hindered further, but I won't lie I mostly enjoy playing this game because it feels like magic at its core.

Quite honestly though, I backed it for the PVE portion of the game, and it's a shame CZE didn't try to get elements of this out first because maybe the game wouldn't look quite as copypasta.

And holy fuck Hex's PVE concepts are better than DotP can ever dream of being with its absolutely god awful campaign.

Plus equipment modification to cards alongside gem slotting is pretty awesome idea for a digital game.

 

[FieryBalrog]

Speaking of Netrunner, imagine if Fantasy Flight didn't license Netrunner from WOTC, but instead released "Android: Webtraveller".

Here's what FFG actually did with Android: Netrunner:
they changed some game terms:
+Data Fort -> Server
+Action -> Click
+Bit -> Credit
(some other ones I'm forgetting)

+Some cards are different
+Factions and influence rules govern deckbuilding instead of having just Runner and Corp (probably a bigger change than anything in Hex!)
+Trace mechanic functions slightly differently (corp bids first instead of blind bid)
+Bad publicity works differently

Theme:
+Still cyberpunk, but now set very clearly in FFG's own Android universe, instead of a general early-90's cyberpunk universe.

We would probably have a similar lawsuit on our hands. Except, you know, they actually licensed Netrunner.

 

[shaowebb]

This makes me sad. I'd been reading on this game and know Q was playing it. I liked how it sounded.

Isn't there a card leveling system added?

 

[Vagabundo]

I've no problem with Wizards bring a lawsuit against such a blatant ripoff. I'm not sure if they will win, still it's not like the Hex guys didn't have it coming.

 

[ZackieChan]

I get where you're coming from, but having read a lot of IP infringement complaints in a previous life, it's not at all unusual for plaintiffs' counsel to throw everything but the kitchen sink into the complaint, even if the claims don't all ultimately stick (as long as they're not so ridiculous that you'd risk Rule 11 sanctions or piss off the judge, lol... and the plot and setting infringement claims don't reach that level). Given the low cost of pleading additional claims, you could even argue that NOT doing so is malpractice in certain situations. So the presence of "filler" claims doesn't necessarily mean WotC is desperate or being a bully. Those things might still be true, but not because of the filler claims.

-edit- almost everyone is forgetting about the patent claim as well

I think it's more that they are conflating all types of intellectual property, and then incorrectly interpreting it. Pretty common, unfortunately.

It's not. Game mechanics are irrelevant here because they can't be patented. Further, the differences are obviously just as important as the likenesses if you're trying to sue someone by alleging consumers will confuse their product for yours. No one who knows anything about either game could be brought to a monitor with an application stripped of any branding and play these two games and not know which is which. No one is trying to be deceptive.

That's simply not true. WOTC owns at least one patent on the MTG game mechanics. They CAN be patented.

Then there's cases like this one, regarding Tetris and copyright, that deals with clone games and copied "look and feel." While it is in a different jurisdiction, who knows how a judge would decide in this new case.

 

[shaowebb]

I think it's more that they are conflating all types of intellectual property, and then incorrectly interpreting it. Pretty common, unfortunately.



That's simply not true. WOTC owns at least one patent on the MTG game mechanics. They CAN be patented.

Yeah CCG is a fun and exciting genre but a bit hard to break into because its easy to step on toes and end up in court. Hex is doing it pretty blatantly, but if you use or try to evolve a game mechanic you like you could get in trouble for trying to develop a game based on a mechanic you don't own. Its why we dont see a bunch of magic clones and such already.

 

[ZackieChan]

Yeah CCG is a fun and exciting genre but a bit hard to break into because its easy to step on toes and end up in court. Hex is doing it pretty blatantly, but if you use or try to evolve a game mechanic you like you could get in trouble for trying to develop a game based on a mechanic you don't own. Its why we dont see a bunch of magic clones and such already.

Absolutely. IMO it makes better business sense to distinguish yourself from an institution like MTG, anyway. Cryptozoic, on the other hand, doesn't agree.

 

[FieryBalrog]

Then there's cases like this one, regarding Tetris and copyright, that deals with clone games and copied "look and feel." While it is in a different jurisdiction, who knows how a judge would decide in this new case.

I thought this was a pretty good overview:
http://www.gamedevelopment.com/view/feature/187385/clone_wars_the_five_most_.php?print=1

The last case involving Yeti Town/Triple Town was particularly interesting.

6Waves expressed the underlying idea in its game, Yeti Town, a little differently. Instead of a woodland setting, it was an Arctic setting. The antagonist was a yeti instead of a bear. It used a campfire instead of a robot to destroy tiles. The object hierarchy progressed from saplings to trees to tents to cabins and so on.

However, the rules and functionality of the games, especially the object of matching tiles to create the greatest hierarchy, were nearly identical. The court seemed to be troubled by the fact that Yeti Town copied the exact gameplay and rules of the successful Triple Town. Even though Yeti Town's artwork, sound, and underlying code were readily distinguishable from Triple Town's, the court ruled that Spry Fox had in fact stated a plausible case for copyright infringement against 6Waves.

 

[A Serious Man]

Well this sucks. Is Hex ripping off MtG? Probably, but I was looking forward to it anyway because MtG: Online is such a fucking atrocious product. It's 2014 and WotC still hasn't produced an acceptable digital version of Magic. I was really hoping games like Hex and Hearthstone would start eating WotC's lunch so they would be forced to improve their own product. A good, polished digital MtG where I can build decks and play around with cards from my favorite sets would get all of my money (all of it), but WotC seems incapable of delivering that.

 

[ZackieChan]

I thought this was a pretty good overview:
http://www.gamedevelopment.com/view/feature/187385/clone_wars_the_five_most_.php?print=1

The last case involving Yeti Town/Triple Town was particularly interesting.

Thanks! I will check it out. I remember when the Yeti Town lawsuit was filed, but never actually read an opinion about it. Now I have some homework to do...

 

[Moral Panic]

30.

Other users in the gaming community were confused because of the near identicality of the two games. On Cryptozoic’s own forum a registered user, on December 1, 2013, stated, “I have played a lot of CCGs [Collectible Card Games], and for the most part, CCGs are very similar to each other. However, I’ve never seen a CCG that is as similar to another as Hex is to Magic.” Another such member stated on the same day, “I am a game designer, so I can say that design-wise Hex=Magic. Hex is not “like” Magic, Hex is Magic, with a few tweaks to take advantage of the digital environment. ” (http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=24596&page=8).

31.
The rest of the forum resonated with similar remarks. For example, on June 10, 2013, a member stated “I'm not very worried about calling it a “clone” or not. But it is VERY similar to Magic. I may be wrong but I feel that people who say “it's not THAT similar ” or“ any 2 games in the same genre will be similar” probably don't know many TCGs. I have played many TCGs, paper and digital, and none of them come as close to Magic as HEX. Yes, there are some digital tricks (most of them could be made to work in Magic, although with clumsier bookkeeping required) and a slightly different resource system, but otherwise is almost like a new skin over the same game. So the thing is, if HEX cannot be called a Magic clone, no other TCG can. HEX may not be a “clone” but it's the closest to one we have in the market.” (http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=24596&page=8)

Looks pretty damning as a layman. In a jury trial I think people could be convinced.

Forum posts seem to be the best fodder for lawsuits nowadays. Even GAF got quoted in that Exxon lawsuit.

 

[Toma]

Well this sucks. Is Hex ripping off MtG? Probably, but I was looking forward to it anyway because MtG: Online is such a fucking atrocious product. It's 2014 and WotC still hasn't produced an acceptable digital version of Magic. I was really hoping games like Hex and Hearthstone would start eating WotC's lunch so they would be forced to improve their own product. A good, polished digital MtG where I can build decks and play around with cards from my favorite sets would get all of my money (all of it), but WotC seems incapable of delivering that.

Yeah, Hex is really good.

Still hoping it wont affect them much tbh.

 

[ZackieChan]

Looks pretty damning as a layman. In a jury trial I think people could be convinced.

Forum posts seem to be the best fodder for lawsuits nowadays. Even GAF got quoted in that Exxon lawsuit.

That's because one of the tests for substantial similarity is whether they seem similar to the ordinary observer. And an element in most likelihood of confusion analyses is "actual confusion." Showing real people demonstrating these things is great evidence of infringement.

That article posted a few posts up is excellent, btw. Should be required reading for those saying that copyright can't protect mechanics.

Edit: Just noticed that the Yeti Town/Triple Town case is a Western District of Washington decision. Same jurisdiction where WOTC has filed their lawsuit. Fortunate (for them) that they are based there.

 

[Aureon]

All of them? Your consistent use of hyperbole throughout this thread is doing a real disservice to an already weak argument.

Please point out to a single magic rule not implemented in HEX.
(Rule, not keyword, magic has more keywords than HEX cards at this point)

 

[Chariot]

Best they can do it, letting WotC buy the game and make it real MtG.

 

[Carcetti]

Ahahaha, that card compare list! Anyone who's saying Hex is not ripping off magic is delusional.

 

[Minsc]

Ahahaha, that card compare list! Anyone who's saying Hex is not ripping off magic is delusional.

You do realize MtG has like 100,000 cards or something right? You try and design 500 cards that don't somehow relate to a MtG card.

IMO, Hex very different from MtG even if it shares similar concepts. Certainly it is no more similar than any dozen of FPS you could pull from last gen.

 

[TAJ]

You do realize MtG has like 100,000 cards or something right? You try and design 500 cards that don't somehow relate to a MtG card.

Designing your own game would make that part easy.

 

[Minsc]

Designing your own game would make that part easy.

The goal is to capitalize on the demand is for a game like MtG that doesn't suck. Hex is its own game, I'd be shocked if it lost any of the points relevant to that.

 

[Card Boy]

You do realize MtG has like 100,000 cards or something right? You try and design 500 cards that don't somehow relate to a MtG card.

They have not only copied the stats, effect, cost, color and damage of certain cards but the art is also similar. Also why not let the community design the cards if its too hard for Cryptozoic?

 

[FieryBalrog]

The goal is to capitalize on the demand is for a game like MtG that doesn't suck. Hex is its own game, I'd be shocked if it lost any of the points relevant to that.

So much its own game that I could take any Magic deck and have it work in Hex's rules set? Hell, if they let me import the cards online I could play my Magic deck vs. other Hex decks. Vice versa would work too if you took out the one or two cards in your deck that required a computer.

The goal is to capitalize on the demand is for a game like MtG that doesn't suck.

Yes, that would be the goal of a clone... an original CCG (of which there are many) can have its own demand, but it's harder of course because you're not directly riding on someone else's work.

You do realize MtG has like 100,000 cards or something right? You try and design 500 cards that don't somehow relate to a MtG card.

It's 14,000 cards, and how did the designers of Pokemon//Yu-Gi-Oh//Netrunner//Game of Thrones etc. manage it?

 

[Ikuu]

Shame, would have been nice to have a good card game on PC.

 

[erragal]

True talk: Wotc fucked up horribly. Maybe hasbro had a lot to do with it (that's what the diehard fanboys would say) but it just doesn't ring true.

Please wizard, explain to the world why in 2014 you still have not gone out and hired a professional software development team to create you a modernized fully featured software version of your card game.

There is no excuse. Modo has been 1997 era software since the day it released. Rigid thinking and arrogance has led you to this. You can lash out at games that bear faint resemblance to yours in a petty attempt to stifle competition as much as you want. In the end Wotc has only themselves to blame for failing to keep up technologically and build a player base.

Imagine a world where wotc hires an actial studio to make a usable, slick, contemporary software that completely replicates the game. They could then shift competitive wholly to online and be streaming everything live on twitch.

They're an old company with old leadership that has no flexibility. They're stuck in molasses and their waning buzz gives them no slack from the hasbro.

Don't get me started on how they fucked up d&d. I was playing pnp online in 2003 with programs like webrpg...yet they never could get their gameboard out the door.

They are a trash company looking more and more desperate every day.

Let me be clear: I don't care about hex. They surely copied some things a bit too closely and opened themselves up to this. But the reality is Wotcs incompetence pushed the market into providing a service they refused to. Now instead of competing...they're just gonna shut ppl down. As someone whose childhood was heavily revolving around d&d and mtg...it's really disappointing.

 

[ZackieChan]

What does this have to do with the lawsuit?

Because you don't like a product, others are free to allegedly infringe on it?

 

[FieryBalrog]

True talk: Wotc fucked up horribly. Maybe hasbro had a lot to do with it (that's what the diehard fanboys would say) but it just doesn't ring true.

Please wizard, explain to the world why in 2014 you still have not gone out and hired a professional software development team to create you a modernized fully featured software version of your card game.

There is no excuse. Modo has been 1997 era software since the day it released. Rigid thinking and arrogance has led you to this. You can lash out at games that bear faint resemblance to yours in a petty attempt to stifle competition as much as you want. In the end Wotc has only themselves to blame for failing to keep up technologically and build a player base.

Imagine a world where wotc hires an actial studio to make a usable, slick, contemporary software that completely replicates the game. They could then shift competitive wholly to online and be streaming everything live on twitch.

They're an old company with old leadership that has no flexibility. They're stuck in molasses and their waning buzz gives them no slack from the hasbro.

Don't get me started on how they fucked up d&d. I was playing pnp online in 2003 with programs like webrpg...yet they never could get their gameboard out the door.

They are a trash company looking more and more desperate every day.

I hate MTGO. It's one of the worst online experiences I've ever had. I have spent $10 on MTGO and $250 on Hearthstone even though I would much rather play Magic if I could. That doesn't make it OK to ripoff someone else's game wholesale, particularly one as complex and intricate as Magic.

Also MTG's playerbase has quadrupled or so in the past 5 years, they must be really desperate.

 

[erragal]

I hate MTGO. It's one of the worst online experiences I've ever had. I have spent $10 on MTGO and $250 on Hearthstone even though I would much rather play Magic if I could. That doesn't make it OK to ripoff someone else's game wholesale, particularly one as complex and intricate as Magic.

Also MTG's playerbase has quadrupled or so in the past 5 years, they must be really desperate.

Don't put data in my post that doesn't exist. Good thing I went back and edited in a qualifier for people like you. At no point did I absolve hex of wrongdoing ...I just don't even care about hex at all.

Is that what they tell people? Cool. But please tell me what their digital presence is like? How is their cachet? What happens when someone does provide a strategically competitive online version of their game with a real client.

Desperation comes when people see further than the present.

 

[RubberJohnny]

You do realize MtG has like 100,000 cards or something right? You try and design 500 cards that don't somehow relate to a MtG card.

This is easy if you don't make your underlying ruleset a clone of the system - Netrunner cards are completely different from Magic cards because the ruleset doesn't have many points of similarity.

The similar cards are a symptom of wanting to make Magic+, not an issue in themselves.

MTGO is an utter shitshow though.

 

[Minsc]

They have not only copied the stats, effect, cost, color and damage of certain cards but the art is also similar. Also why not let the community design the cards if its too hard for Cryptozoic?

I guess I just don't see your argument, are you saying having cards that are similar (or even have the same stats) in another TCG is not legal?

So much its own game that I could take any Magic deck and have it work in Hex's rules set? Hell, if they let me import the cards online I could play my Magic deck vs. other Hex decks. Vice versa would work too if you took out the one or two cards in your deck that required a computer.

I don't think this is a very uncommon thing, and the goal from the beginning was to create a MtG clone. If you don't like that, sorry, but that's what the goal was. Thanks for the correction to the number of cards, I haven't played much MtG in a long time outside DotP which is quite limited, so I haven't kept up with the card counts.

This is easy if you don't make your underlying ruleset a clone of the system - Netrunner cards are completely different from Magic cards because the ruleset doesn't have many points of similarity.

The similar cards are a symptom of wanting to make Magic+, not an issue in themselves.

MTGO is an utter shitshow though.

The entire premise of this TCG is to make a clone of MtG. Which is not illegal afaik, even if people hate that it is that. People make clones of games all the time, and GAF by large hates it, but it happens. It is only illegal when actual assets are stolen, etc... I can't say I'm aware of any cases where two similar/clone games weren't allowed to exist. Just look at the iOS market, probably 80% of it is clones, way more than Hex would be.

 

[FieryBalrog]

Don't put data in my post that doesn't exist. Good thing I went back and edited in a qualifier for people like you. At no point did I absolve hex of wrongdoing ...I just don't even care about hex at all.

You can lash out at games that bear faint resemblance to yours in a petty attempt to stifle competition as much as you want.

Well, you do think WOTC is throwing out frivolous lawsuits due to a faint resemblance. Kind of a weird thing to say then.

The entire premise of this TCG is to make a clone of MtG. Which is not illegal afaik, even if people hate that it is that. People make clones of games all the time, and GAF by large hates it, but it happens. It is only illegal when actual assets are stolen, etc... I can't say I'm aware of any cases where two similar/clone games weren't allowed to exist. Just look at the iOS market, probably 80% of it is clones, way more than Hex would be.

You should read the Yeti Town/Triple Town case I linked earlier, it's even filed in the same district I believe.

And personally I can't stand Zynga style tactics where you rip off someone else's game and change some names around. It's one thing to actually be 'inspired by', and another to just copy-paste huge chunks of work.

 

[TheSeks]

It's 14,000 cards, and how did the designers of Pokemon//Yu-Gi-Oh//Netrunner//Game of Thrones etc. manage it?

Pokemon does it by having six "Creatures" on the board a la the video game "team" set-up. Then when you knkock out "Creatures" you get a "prize"/"draw an extra card" type of mechanic. Win all 6 prizes, you win vs Magic's "knock the opponents 20 HP out."

There's minor differences between all the card games, but you can boil them all down to "Creature/Library/Graveyard" etc. Magic terms (or said other Card-games terms) and they'll all functionally sound the same outside of these minor differences.

That's really the murky issue besides the blatant copying of spell effects (and changing the minor wording to match their cardgame) that Hex is running into.

True talk: Wotc fucked up horribly. Maybe hasbro had a lot to do with it (that's what the diehard fanboys would say) but it just doesn't ring true.

Please wizard, explain to the world why in 2014 you still have not gone out and hired a professional software development team to create you a modernized fully featured software version of your card game.

There is no excuse. Modo has been 1997 era software since the day it released. Rigid thinking and arrogance has led you to this. You can lash out at games that bear faint resemblance to yours in a petty attempt to stifle competition as much as you want. In the end Wotc has only themselves to blame for failing to keep up technologically and build a player base.

Imagine a world where wotc hires an actial studio to make a usable, slick, contemporary software that completely replicates the game. They could then shift competitive wholly to online and be streaming everything live on twitch.

They're an old company with old leadership that has no flexibility. They're stuck in molasses and their waning buzz gives them no slack from the hasbro.

Don't get me started on how they fucked up d&d. I was playing pnp online in 2003 with programs like webrpg...yet they never could get their gameboard out the door.

They are a trash company looking more and more desperate every day.

I'd say it's 60/40 Hasbro/Wizards. Hasbro wants cash, Wizard's tries to create a paper-like "card economy" in Magic Online without revamping the collection or anything in the GUI in nearly 20 years. Then they constantly pump out expansions to keep the money flowing while power creep continues to happen.

 

[erragal]

Faint resemblance? lol.

What else is it but faint? Have you ever seen a chinese wow clone? Or a game where they take the art assets from another game (league being the big one right now)

Faint/minor is the correct word choice.

You also make it obvious you are not conversating legitimately when you post a one liner and lol. You are obstinately looking at one part of this issue and asauming everything is black/white and right/wrong. Your rigid mind is holding you back; work on it.

I like how you changed your tone in the second post because you think you 'caught' me or something.

It's frivolous because as a consumer interested in their products for 10 years they've failed to provide me with a functioning quality digital implementation of it. They failed and instead of trying to compete in a timely manner they're using litigation to protect their poor longterm strategy.

Never once did I make a legal assessment of hex's culpability. It's not relevant to my point of view whether hex is too cloae to mtg or not. Reality says if they had a usable digital interface no one would try and release a legitimate game with a similar ruleset because the market gap would have been filled.

I have no idea why you are defending wotc. Do you work for them? Who even likes that horrible company...

 

[FieryBalrog]

Pokemon does it by having six "Creatures" on the board a la the video game "team" set-up. Then when you knkock out "Creatures" you get a "prize"/"draw an extra card" type of mechanic. Win all 6 prizes, you win vs Magic's "knock the opponents 20 HP out."

Except those aren't minor differences at all. The way Pokemon plays is completely different from how Magic plays, which is completely different from how Netrunner plays, etc.. I don't know what is gained by pretending something akin to: Magic and Bridge both use cards, therefore Magic, Bridge and Hex are all really just the same game with "minor differences in how you use the cards".

I like how you changed your tone in the second post because you think you 'caught' me or something.

You may want to look at that edit time, friend.

 

[faberpach]

This is not about MODO being crap this is about how a company is using the work of another to release a product and make money out of it...

 

[Minsc]

You should read the Yeti Town/Triple Town case I linked earlier, it's even filed in the same district I believe.

And personally I can't stand Zynga style tactics where you rip off someone else's game and change some names around. It's one thing to actually be 'inspired by', and another to just copy-paste huge chunks of work.

I do remember The Triple Town case from a while back now, thanks for mentioning it again, but I still think that is the other end of the stick for Hex. I don't see Hex and MtG as closely related as those two, but I think the points highlighted in the article you linked are interesting. The shared name Yeti/Triple "Town", the ~100% identical gameplay (which I'd argue Hex is far below due to the combination of cards in a deck vastly effecting the gameplay among other factors (hero powers, sockets, the whole PVE MMO aspect, etc), I don't think people would find playing a game of one the same as another like with Yeti/Triple Town). In cases like that, I am happy to see a judgement like that, since it is really just a paint job.

But again, I don't think you'd really find two people in a jury who sit down and play MTGO and Hex and found them to be swappable like with Yeti/Triple Town, and same with DotP vs Hex.

 

[erragal]

This is not about MODO being crap this is about how a company is using the work of another to release a product and make money out of it...

What -work - did they take? Please illuminate me on the advanced design documents they stole to based the structure of their cards around. They intentionally designed a similar game within the bounds of the law and by nature cards with similar function were developed.

If they have design notes from development they can prove that.

Now the courts may still decise that incidental development is still infringement. That'll be interesting to see. The hyperbole that 'work' was stolen is disengenuous.

Wotc not providing a modern digital version of the client is relevant. If they took better care of their product it wouldn't be vulnerable to copycats becoming more successful than they are.

 

[Minsc]

You mean the edit that I caught in my quoted post before you changed it. Nice try, kid. It's ok though, you being a dismissive lolprick is saved for all to see.

This is not the direction arguments should head, and any more insults will get whoever is dragging them out banned.

 

[FieryBalrog]

I do remember The Triple Town case from a while back now, thanks for mentioning it again, but I still think that is the other end of the stick for Hex. I don't see Hex and MtG as closely related as those two, but I think the points highlighted in the article you linked are interesting. The shared name Yeti/Triple "Town", the ~100% identical gameplay (which I'd argue Hex is far below due to the combination of cards in a deck vastly effecting the gameplay among other factors (hero powers, sockets, the whole PVE MMO aspect, etc), I don't think people would find playing a game of one the same as another like with Yeti/Triple Town). In cases like that, I am happy to see a judgement like that, since it is really just a paint job.

But again, I don't think you'd really find two people in a jury who sit down and play MTGO and Hex and found them to be swappable like with Yeti/Triple Town, and same with DotP vs Hex.

Fair enough, though I guess we'll find out the actual answer to this (barring settlement of course, which will probably spoil the chance of getting any interesting rulings). I personally don't think "has some new mechanics attached to the base game engine" is a very compelling defense given that Magic's whole shtick is "each expansion has some new mechanics attached to the base game engine". But that's based on my experience with Magic, of course, and a jury might have a different view.

 

[Costia]

I don't know who is legally right here but I hope that WotC will lose this case.
I am not really into CCG games but it seems to me that hex is a rip-off of mgto the same way any fps is a rip-off of doom/half life.
It seems to me that Cryptozoic have created a better version of an online card game. But instead of improving their game and providing a better user experience WotC are trying to shut them down by legal means.
So while WotC might be legally right I see it as a negative step. From what I have seen so far , legal actions are what dying gaming companies do when they no longer have sufficient income from their games and can't keep up with the competition.