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Wonderful 101 first Review: "ample justification for Nintendo's eccentric hardware"

TDLink

TDLink

Member
BadWolf said:
Huge PG fan so would love to play this and Bayonetta 2 but alas the WiiU isn't worth a purchase for me.

Guess I'll watch playthroughs on youtube or something.
Click to expand...

If you're a huge PG fan then you know that watching it on youtube isn't even close to the same thing. These games are all about actually playing them.

I don't understand how the Wii U isn't worth a purchase when you want at least a few games for the system. Especially if you are a huge PG fan.

Yes I know I'm probably getting trolled, but these kinds of posts bug me.
 
B

BadWolf

Member
TDLink said:
If you're a huge PG fan then you know that watching it on youtube isn't even close to the same thing. These games are all about actually playing them.

I don't understand how the Wii U isn't worth a purchase when you want at least a few games for the system. Especially if you are a huge PG fan.

Yes I know I'm probably getting trolled, but these kinds of posts bug me.
Click to expand...

You're not getting trolled, these two games and X are literally the only games on the system that I have any interest in and I have zero interest in Nintendo first party.

I love Vanquish, Rising and Bayonetta on PS3 but there is no way I would have bought the system for just those three games.
 
F

fabricated backlash

Member
Exile20 said:
Why didn't she gave examples?

I want to see the shapes she is drawing and see what happens on screen. I hope she knows that obviously the shapes need to be exaggerated and might have to take up the whole screen.
Click to expand...

After watching a hands on at E3, seeing a journalist failing to draw a straight line, or even a circle I can see the shape recognition not being the source of the problem.
 
H

Hystzen

Member
TDLink said:
If you're a huge PG fan then you know that watching it on youtube isn't even close to the same thing. These games are all about actually playing them.

I don't understand how the Wii U isn't worth a purchase when you want at least a few games for the system. Especially if you are a huge PG fan.

Yes I know I'm probably getting trolled, but these kinds of posts bug me.
Click to expand...


My view is I don't buy consoles for 1 game I don't see speeding money in console going let collect dust months after. I like PG but not dropping £320 for premium just for one game. I might pick up later but at moment have zero interest in other games.


In topic PG tend to review well but get low sales which makes me sad don't see that pattern changing.
 
B

Bony Manifesto

Member
I can believe that the drawing could be problematic on the GamePad. That was the trade-off they made when going with a resistive screen: it's at its best and when you use a stylus and at its worst when you slide your finger across it.

(Cue people telling me the GamePad screen is perfect in every single circumstance)
 
TDLink

TDLink

Member
BadWolf said:
You're not getting trolled, these two games and X are literally the only games on the system that I have any interest in and I have zero interest in Nintendo first party.

I love Vanquish, Rising and Bayonetta on PS3 but there is no way I would have bought the system for just those three games.
Click to expand...

Personally I consider 3 games I want to own good enough to pick up a system. (Although, I will note, that I don't own a Wii U yet as none of these games are actually out, but I will)

Especially when you pretty much know they are going to be grade A based on those studios' past output. Those 3 games (which I too want more than basically any others) are going to provide many many more hours of gameplay than at least 6 of most other games.

Saying you have zero interest in whatever Nintendo makes is also a bit disingenuous as technically W101 and X are both completely first party. They cover a lot of different genres and I am sure they will make and fund more games like these in the future (after these are out). What you probably mean is you just don't like Mario/Zelda...but there is more to them than that.

Hystzen said:
My view is I don't buy consoles for 1 game I don't see speeding money in console going let collect dust months after. I like PG but not dropping £320 for premium just for one game. I might pick up later but at moment have zero interest in other games.


In topic PG tend to review well but get low sales which makes me sad don't see that pattern changing.
Click to expand...

I don't buy a console for one game either. But when there are at least 3 that is usually good enough.
 
W

wsippel

Banned
BadWolf said:
You're not getting trolled, these two games and X are literally the only games on the system that I have any interest in and I have zero interest in Nintendo first party.

I love Vanquish, Rising and Bayonetta on PS3 but there is no way I would have bought the system for just those three games.
Click to expand...
wat

You are aware that X is, in fact, a Nintendo first party title? Monolith is Nintendo.
 
B

BadWolf

Member
TDLink said:
Personally I consider 3 games I want to own good enough to pick up a system. (Although, I will note, that I don't own a Wii U yet as none of these games are actually out, but I will)

Especially when you pretty much know they are going to be grade A based on those studios' past output. Those 3 games (which I too want more than basically any others) are going to provide many many more hours of gameplay than at least 6 of most other games.

I don't buy a console for one game either. But when there are at least 3 that is usually good enough.
Click to expand...

Not on my gaming budget :)

I choose one system per generation.

wsippel said:
wat

You are aware that X is, in fact, a Nintendo first party title? Monolith is Nintendo.
Click to expand...

I meant Mario etc.

I know Monolith is now Nintendo's but that doesn't change the fact that the reason I care about them is via Xenogears and Xenosaga, which were all on Playstation consoles.
 
E

Exile20

Member
BadWolf said:
You're not getting trolled, these two games and X are literally the only games on the system that I have any interest in and I have zero interest in Nintendo first party.

I love Vanquish, Rising and Bayonetta on PS3 but there is no way I would have bought the system for just those three games.
Click to expand...

So what is your threshold? 5 games? 6, 7, 8 ,9?

The system is just a vehicle to play the games.

I still do get how people lump every single first party and second party Nintendo game in one category. SMH.... X is from Nintendo first party......SMHA.......

If people don't buy the console, how are other publishers going to bring games to the console? That nasty circle.
 
B

BadWolf

Member
Exile20 said:
So what is your threshold? 5 games? 6, 7, 8 ,9?

The system is just a vehicle to play the games.

I still do get how people lump every single first party and second party Nintendo game in one category. SMH.... X is from Nintendo first party......SMHA.......

If people don't buy the console, how are other publishers going to bring games to the console? That nasty circle.
Click to expand...

More than that actually, like I said I only buy one console per generation.

People can buy whatever they want, just speaking for myself here.
 
W

wsippel

Banned
BadWolf said:
I meant Mario etc.

I know Monolith is now Nintendo's but that doesn't change the fact that the reason I care about them is via Xenogears and Xenosaga, which were all on Playstation consoles.
Click to expand...
Sorry, can't quite follow you there. The "Mario etc" thing gives the impression that you know very little about Nintendo's portfolio, so I guess that's the problem. Nintendo isn't just Mario and Zelda. So maybe dig a little deeper, and you might find quite a few things worth caring about.

EDIT: Obviously, if you only want to buy one system, and care more the PS4 or Xbone lineup, that's perfectly fine. Sure, you'll miss out, but it's ultimately your decision. I personally wouldn't limit myself to one system, though.
 
M

mugurumakensei

Member
Shit, I've bought almost every single one of my consoles for one game or two games only.

Gamecube - I really wanted Rogue Squadron. I would have been happy with just that.

PS2 - got one cause I wanted Kingdom Hearts and Shin Megami Tensei Nocturne.

Wii - Wanted to play twilight princess and excite truck.

360 - I bought it only for tales of vesperia and lost odyssey. Would have kept it if it didn't RRoD.

PS3 - MGS4 and Gran Turismo 5.

Wii U - Bayonetta 2, Wonderful 101, and Rayman Legends.

PS4 - of the retail titles, I'm only interested in KH3 and FFXV. I still have one preordered.

Now, that's not to say I don't experiment afterwards, but one or two titles is enough to get me to buy a platform. If games I enjoy come out other than those, it's icing on the cake. If they don't, I got to play the titles im interested in.
 
S

starwarsfan541

Banned
BadWolf said:
You're not getting trolled, these two games and X are literally the only games on the system that I have any interest in and I have zero interest in Nintendo first party.

I love Vanquish, Rising and Bayonetta on PS3 but there is no way I would have bought the system for just those three games.
Click to expand...

You do know Monolith Soft is 1st Party?
 
O

Outtrigger888

Member
Bony Manifesto said:
I can believe that the drawing could be problematic on the GamePad. That was the trade-off they made when going with a resistive screen: it's at its best and when you use a stylus and at its worst when you slide your finger across it.

(Cue people telling me the GamePad screen is perfect in every single circumstance)
Click to expand...

Who would tell you its perfect?

I just tested it out. As long as you're not afraid to press down on the screen,(I don't mean hard) then you can draw just fine without error.

I would even argue that resistive is the better experience since you have to press-down. It gives a feel like you're actually creating something(like pressing a button), opposed to just hovering your finger across a screen that can feel lifeless.
 
prag16

prag16

Banned
Bony Manifesto said:
I can believe that the drawing could be problematic on the GamePad. That was the trade-off they made when going with a resistive screen: it's at its best and when you use a stylus and at its worst when you slide your finger across it.

(Cue people telling me the GamePad screen is perfect in every single circumstance)
Click to expand...

Yeah, I used the stylus for the Rayman Challenges app for the Murfy parts. But for this game, the stylus probably wouldn't be a great option, but personally I'm able to use a finger nail to basically the same effect, but that may not be easily doable for everybody. "Swiping" with the pad of a finger doesn't work fantastically well.
 
V

ViewtifulJC

Banned
Outtrigger888 said:
Who would tell you its perfect?
Click to expand...

Flashbacks to Skyward Sword thread

"I playing SS right now and the controls are flawless I've never had a misread input, never had to recalibrate my aim, it works 100% of the time all the time, get better at the game/your motionplus is broken/etc"
 
R

Regiruler

Member
Subaru said:
Skyward Sword too.. oh gosh, I hate these journalists.
Click to expand...

Unless you didn't like Skyward Sword (shame on you), IGN gave it a 10.
I'm probably missing a joke here
fabricated backlash said:
After watching a hands on at E3, seeing a journalist failing to draw a straight line, or even a circle I can see the shape recognition not being the source of the problem.
Click to expand...
IIRC there was a confusion about button input (or lack thereof).
 
6

69wpm

Member
prag16 said:
Yeah, I used the stylus for the Rayman Challenges app for the Murfy parts. But for this game, the stylus probably wouldn't be a great option, but personally I'm able to use a finger nail to basically the same effect, but that may not be easily doable for everybody. "Swiping" with the pad of a finger doesn't work fantastically well.
Click to expand...

I believe most people use the Gamepad wrong, yes, I mean it. If you place your finger and draw around, the screen will not register as well as if you use your fingertip or nail. Most people think it's the same touchscreen you get with a tablet, well it's not, it's the same you get with a (3)DS. It's meant to be used with a stylus.
 
M

Mistouze

user-friendly man-cashews
Bony Manifesto said:
I can believe that the drawing could be problematic on the GamePad. That was the trade-off they made when going with a resistive screen: it's at its best and when you use a stylus and at its worst when you slide your finger across it.

(Cue people telling me the GamePad screen is perfect in every single circumstance)
Click to expand...
Heh. Didn't have any problems drawing shit with my fingers in the demo, I'm certainly not going to whip out the stylus while playing W101.

I feel like the resistive screen would only be a problem if you're going to press tiny buttons or draw stuff that has to precisely line up with something on the screen. Just for shapes that don't have to be precisely placed on the screen or big buttons there is no problem. Many years of playing DS and 3DS already proved it.
 
B

Bony Manifesto

Member
Outtrigger888 said:
Who would tell you its perfect?

I just tested it out. As long as you're not afraid to press down on the screen,(I don't mean hard) then you can draw just fine without error.
Click to expand...

That's exactly why using your finger on the GamePad screen is so rubbish - in order to be sure it'll be continue to be detected you have to make sure you're always applying pressure to it, which increases the friction, which makes it harder to move your finger. It's usable, but it's surprisingly annoying if you're used to the sensitivity of capacitive screens.

It's like what I'm experiencing with my mouse at the moment: if I hold down the mouse button as I'm used to, it doesn't register clicks reliably, so dragged files get dropped, things accidentally get double-clicked on. It works if I press down more firmly, but fuck that noise - I binned it and got a new mouse.

Honestly, I don't know why Nintendo haven't launched a GamePad Pro that has a nicer display, capacitive screen, and better battery life. It would be a much better distinguishing feature between the Basic and Premium SKUs, and I think would go a long way into making the console seem a bit more modern.
 
T

thefro

Member
Luckily you can use the right-analog stick to draw the shapes. That's probably the better way to go for advanced players anyway since you don't have to take your hand completely off the buttons to draw the shape.

I'm sure it's some combination of hardware limitations/user expecting the touchpad to work exactly like an iPad game. I doubt it was something P*, Nintendo, and Mario Club all overlooked.
 
R

Regiruler

Member
Bony Manifesto said:
That's exactly why using your finger on the GamePad screen is so rubbish - in order to be sure it'll be continue to be detected you have to make sure you're always applying pressure to it, which increases the friction, which makes it harder to move your finger. It's usable, but it's surprisingly annoying if you're used to the sensitivity of capacitive screens.

It's like what I'm experiencing with my mouse at the moment: if I hold down the mouse button as I'm used to, it doesn't register clicks reliably, so dragged files get dropped, things accidentally get double-clicked on. It works if I press down more firmly, but fuck that noise - I binned it and got a new mouse.

Honestly, I don't know why Nintendo haven't launched a GamePad Pro that has a nicer display, capacitive screen, and better battery life. It would be a much better distinguishing feature between the Basic and Premium SKUs, and I think would go a long way into making the console seem a bit more modern.
Click to expand...

I was introduced to resistive screens before I ever had a smartphone, and I had a DS for about 6 years before ever getting a phone myself. I prefer the resistive screen as the stylus feels natural to me and I like to put pressure on the screen.

I suppose this is very much an opinionated thing.

EDIT: I'm surprised no-one has made any parallels to Wario: Master of Disguise yet. I know GAF's opinion of the game is really low but I found it interesting that the game uses a similar concept.
 
O

Outtrigger888

Member
Bony Manifesto said:
That's exactly why using your finger on the GamePad screen is so rubbish - in order to be sure it'll be continue to be detected you have to make sure you're always applying pressure to it, which increases the friction, which makes it harder to move your finger. It's usable, but it's surprisingly annoying if you're used to the sensitivity of capacitive screens.

It's like what I'm experiencing with my mouse at the moment: if I hold down the mouse button as I'm used to, it doesn't register clicks reliably, so dragged files get dropped, things accidentally get double-clicked on. It works if I press down more firmly, but fuck that noise - I binned it and got a new mouse.

Honestly, I don't know why Nintendo haven't launched a GamePad Pro that has a nicer display, capacitive screen, and better battery life. It would be a much better distinguishing feature between the Basic and Premium SKUs, and I think would go a long way into making the console seem a bit more modern.
Click to expand...


You've never even tried using the gamepad. It's not rubbish. Even a guy above your post commented actually playing the game and having no problems.

Like I said, it feels better to be pressing in the screen to create something. Just like pressing a button to do an action. Imagine playing on a controller that was all touch activated. It would feel lifeless.

As long as its not a problem to press on the gamepads screen to create the shapes(which it isnt, i just tested it), it's the better experience, imo. I didnt experience friction to where its harder to move my finger.

Capacitive just feels lifeless, even tho its a little easier.

Also, miiverse drawings just wouldnt be the same with a capacitive screen.
 
F

FirstBlood

Member
From playing the demo at PAX, I got the impression that the shape-drawing was something you would learn to do properly over time, where certain actions/shapes were easier to do quickly on the pad (drawing circles to pick up civilians) and others were better and more consistent with the stick (usually straight lines).

Obviously it's not ideal when it's presented like you can just use one or the other, but it seemed like after a level or two you'd figure out the best way to do what you want and be fine.
 
B

Bony Manifesto

Member
Outtrigger888 said:
You've never even tried using the gamepad. It's not rubbish. Even a guy above your post commented actually playing the game and having no problems.

Like I said, it feels better to be pressing in the screen to create something. Just like pressing a button to do an action. Imagine playing on a controller that was all touch activated. It would feel lifeless.

As long as its not a problem to press on the gamepads screen to create the shapes(which it isnt, i just tested it), it's the better experience, imo. I didnt experience friction to where its harder to move my finger.

Capacitive just feels lifeless, even tho its a little easier.

Also, miiverse drawings just wouldnt be the same with a capacitive screen.
Click to expand...

So, in summary, you feel the flaws of resistive touchscreen technology makes the GamePad better?

Whatever, like I say, I know people are going to tell me it's perfect (or better than perfect in your case - I admit I wasn't expecting that!). But I really feel that, for me, the resistive touchscreen makes some games worse. It's like playing an FPS with a dodgy mouse button that you need to press harder to be sure it'll work: workable, but far from ideal. And if someone was to tell me it's a better, more tactile, experience because it simulates the resistance from pulling the gun's trigger, it would be clearly ludicrous.
 
O

Outtrigger888

Member
Bony Manifesto said:
I know people are going to tell me it's perfect (or better than perfect in your case - I admit I wasn't expecting that!)
Click to expand...

Didn't you say, "So, in summary, you feel the flaws of resistive touchscreen technology makes the GamePad better?"

So you admit I believe there is flaws, but then go on to say I think its beyond perfect...

Dude, stop trolling. Im done talking to you.

set to ignored
 
K

KingSnake

The Birthday Skeleton
There is no issue in using the finger on the touch screen in Rayman or any other game that uses it, other than leaving fingerprints on the screen, we'll see if it is really an issue in W101. The stylus is just more comfy and clean to use.

It's not perfect, but it's not crippled either.
 
J

Jonboy

Member
hal9001 said:
As with previous Platinum games, I am sure that some of the reviewers are going to dock it points just because the game is too "hard" or that the controls are too difficult to master. I miss the days when it took you months of practice to become an expert at a game rather than on a single play session.
Click to expand...
Ehh...I'm concerned it's more than just difficult controls. Sounds like the gamepad doesn't always interpret them the same way. Also sounds like there are camera problems from the video.
 
E

Exile20

Member
It seems like she is getting the hang of it.

Keza MacDonald ‏@kezamacdonald 4m
@mrbasil_pesto I was expecting that - wasn't expecting the controls to not work properly. First few hours with it were painful, has improved

The TW101 direct can't come soon enough. I hope they spend sometime showing exactly how to draw the shapes.

I just hope it is user error on her part.
 
R

Regiruler

Member
Like all image recognition technology, I expect there to be glitches and quirks.

It's a non-issue for me personally, but I wish others didn't get so hung up over it as it's deflating my hype.
 
F

fabricated backlash

Member
Jonboy said:
Ehh...I'm concerned it's more than just difficult controls. Sounds like the gamepad doesn't always interpret them the same way. Also sounds like there are camera problems from the video.
Click to expand...

Meh, after seeing a journalist failing to even draw a straight line during a play session at E3 I'll withhold judgement about non functional controls for now.
 
E

Exile20

Member
Jonboy said:
Ehh...I'm concerned it's more than just difficult controls. Sounds like the gamepad doesn't always interpret them the same way. Also sounds like there are camera problems from the video.
Click to expand...

It isnt that gamepad that interprets the shape, it is the game. When you draw the shape you see exactly what you drew.

It would be the gamepads fault if you drew an S and it looked like an E or drew and O and it looked like an I. But from what I see what you draw is what you get but the game doesn't interpret the shape well.

I still wished she showed some examples of the shapes she is drawing and what was happening on screen, then we would know if it is user error or the games fault.
 
R

Retro_

Unconfirmed Member
StrikerObi said:
Do they have anything known in development for other platforms right now other than W101 and Bayonetta 2? It seems like right now they are basically a Nintendo 2nd party (they develop, Nintendo publishes).
Click to expand...

They have nothing announced but that doesn't mean they aren't working on anything

and also not everything they work on sees the light of day. I remember reading an interview where Minami commented on prototypes that they develop that don't work out or can't go any further for various reasons

(Minami says Platinum has also developed several game concepts in its office that never got off the ground, including one that made it far enough into development for the team to create a trailer. But he can't give details because "it was based on somebody else's IP. It was kind of a major thing and we don't want to upset them.")
Click to expand...

http://www.polygon.com/features/2013/4/16/4214960/tatsuya-minami-platinum-games

So I'm not sure that you can just look at what's currently announced for the studio and think they have nothing else going on. Game announcements happen all the time.

I'd be surprised as hell if they were actually working on Rising 2 though, like alot of people seem to think.
 
A

ASIS

Member
Penguin said:
I hate that the final question and comment refer to discussing this game as a possible killer app

I get it, but I really feel this shouldn't be part of the reviewing process.
Click to expand...

I agree, it irritated me with pikmin 3, and it's irritating me now.
 
J

Jonboy

Member
Exile20 said:
It isnt that gamepad that interprets the shape, it is the game. When you draw the shape you see exactly what you drew.

It would be the gamepads fault if you drew an S and it looked like an E or drew and O and it looked like an I. But from what I see what you draw is what you get but the game doesn't interpret the shape well.

I still wished she showed some examples of the shapes she is drawing and what was happening on screen, then we would know if it is user error or the games fault.
Click to expand...
Agreed. Good point. Maybe we'll get that in the actual review.

Anyone remember SSX Blur? Many journalists panned it for awful controls, but I remember Matt and Bozon from IGN loved the game. It just took a little practice, but when you performed the motion (essentially drawing with the pointer more so than a "motion") correctly, they worked every time.
 
A

ASIS

Member
ViewtifulJC said:
Flashbacks to Skyward Sword thread

"I playing SS right now and the controls are flawless I've never had a misread input, never had to recalibrate my aim, it works 100% of the time all the time, get better at the game/your motionplus is broken/etc"
Click to expand...

The number of people that say SS controls worked 100% are probably the smallest minority groups, why are you using them as an example? The controls worked, and most people who complained didn't understand the controls properly. That is a fact. No, it didn't work 100%, but the ratio was much closer to that than, say 85%.


I agree with your Gamepad comments though.
 
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