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[Nikana]

I always wondered why so many people in game forums buy into the "scale down from Series X" propaganda. That was never how it worked. In fact it is so unbelievable, that I could only assume those who say so did so with the intent to deceive. That was why I never really argued against such people; I assume they were lying to begin with.

Months and months ago, when the rumor of Lockhart surfaced, I outright dismissed it as ridiculous. I see it as a disastrous decision to launch with two tiers, and assumed that Xbox division is not suicidal enough to make that call.

Over the months that have since passed, I now believe Xbox Division is truly foolish enough to do the deed.
And now I just watch the Xbox next gen news, with the mentality of watching a slow motion train crash.

Xbox hardware is doomed, by their own actions. I am just here for the fireworks, since I am a late adopter and isn't going to buy a machine for a long while yet.

 

[Boxman]

Worst nightmares for some people will become reality



Two XDK consoles are certified in South Korea.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

See, you make it sound so easy... And it would be, if we were talking about Software. Microsoft is very much used to releasing software in tiers, ripping up a full product and sell it for less with components missing.

But we are talking about Hardware here. Releasing, and Marketing, two different SKUs is a different beast. But i no longer care to explain why it is a bad idea, because it isn't like it matters. As i say, this is going to be a train crash, because the train is already in motion and the breaks had already failed. Nothing i say in an internet forum thread is going to stop the inevitable.

Thanks, but I don't even own a PS4. You can look back in my post history and see that I always thought that Lockhart was stupid. And that the reason I didn't believe it was because I didn't think Xbox would actually do what hardcore game forums had been suggesting for years... That of just selling an expensive console and subsidise it with a cheaper one.
I didn't agree with that idea way back when, and I don't agree with it now.

 

[Thirty7ven]

People need to read this before they claim that Lockhart won't hold SX games back.

I think we need more details before we say Lockhart holds anything back.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

I think we need more details before we say Lockhart holds anything back.

What kind of detail are you waiting on? The expectations so far seem to imply all you wanted was 8K and 60fps for Series X. And if that is all you want for the next 7 years then yes, that is what you will get. That will be the only thing you would get.

 

[DaGwaphics]

I think we need more details before we say Lockhart holds anything back.

Agreed. Might as well at least see the games in action first before we go full armageddon.

IF MS is completely done with generations, I can see them needing a second sku. With a rolling model you lose the gradual price reductions that happen with fixed hardware, in that instance it is much easier to just roll two units every 3 or 4 years.

 

[sinnergy]

Tesselation was supposed to save gaming 10 years ago. Since then it is barely used and most of the time other way around. Aka to transition LOD1 into LOD0 assets rather than to transform LOD1 into LOD2.

Tesselation uses a lot of power which is why it is not used widely since its introduction.

As of CGI in movies they just use original assets. They don't need to tesselate anything because they render one frame by hours not in frames per second.

They still subdivide or tessellate because you have to work on the scene in real time, or they use proxy objects .

when rendered it picks the highest settings and or fills the proxies with hires versions.

 

[mckmas8808]

For 1 year... Let's first see if Sony shows us something tomorrow that wouldn't be possible on the PS4 by just scaling it down. Because everyone keeps saying games will be held back but Microsoft first party has to run on PC anyway so...

It'll be impossible for this NOT to be the case (just due to having a mandatory SSD in the PS5 compared to a mechanical HDD in the PS4). Plus the generational CPU jump and WHOA!

 

[FireFly]

You can't use same assets at 4TF even with lower resolution if you make assets to work on 10-12TF console. Unless they magically are capable of producing 4TF GPU that has exactly the same amount of shader units, texture units, rops and so on as its 12TF brother.

The only way to do that is to make assets at 4TF limit and then for 12TF console use those assets and scale up resolution and framerate maybe add some extra effects.

These benchmarks show that, not accounting for CPU bottlenecks, you need a little more than a third of the power to run a game at 1080p, as compared with 4k – at the same quality settings.

EVGA GeForce RTX 2060 KO Review

The $299 EVGA GeForce RTX 2060 KO was announced just days ago, at CES, and is the most affordable entry into RTX gaming. What's surprising is that the KO uses a different GPU than other RTX 2060 Series cards. We take a closer look to see what NVIDIA is bringing to the fight with AMD's RX 5600 XT.

www.techpowerup.com

And Nanite could scale even better with resolution, since the number of triangles is tied to the number of pixels.

 

[BurnCoalMeltPole]

Yup. I just don't understand why it is big deal. All XGS studios will also make their games for PC where you need to scale it to weaker HW, so why would be a problem to make your game also for Lockhart? And devs of multiplatform games also need to target PC and scale their games. I just don't get it.

The PS4 Pro is quite a bit more powerful than the PS4, but since it is not the base platform, it is often not fully utilized. The Pro’s value proposition would be a bit different if it was the lead platform. The same goes for the X1X vs the X1. Sure, some aspects will scale well, and other features can be added, but the limitations are there from the beginning, and anything more substantial tends to cost more, and so does not materialize.

Of course scaling works, but it does not work nearly as well as targeted optimization. Assuming Lockhart exists and it ends up being by far the most popular Xbox, we could be looking at PS5 vs Lockhart, and the differences are likely to go far beyond just resolution and HDR. This scenario is not going to matter to everyone, and it may not matter in the least for you, but it certainly could influence the success of the Xbox platform. Microsoft and Sony just have different priorities.

 

[Tulipanzo]

These benchmarks show that, not accounting for CPU bottlenecks, you need a little more than a third of the power to run a game at 1080p, as compared with 4k – at the same quality settings.

EVGA GeForce RTX 2060 KO Review

The $299 EVGA GeForce RTX 2060 KO was announced just days ago, at CES, and is the most affordable entry into RTX gaming. What's surprising is that the KO uses a different GPU than other RTX 2060 Series cards. We take a closer look to see what NVIDIA is bringing to the fight with AMD's RX 5600 XT.

www.techpowerup.com

And Nanite could scale even better with resolution, since the number of triangles is tied to the number of pixels.

Too bad games on XSX and PS5 will run at lower resolution and reconstruct to 4K, using the extra GPU power to virtualize geometry.
This pushes the Lockhart sub-1080p.

It's to be expected, when new consoles launch, for minimum requirements to shoot up on PC.

 

[Dontero]

These benchmarks show that, not accounting for CPU bottlenecks, you need a little more than a third of the power to run a game at 1080p, as compared with 4k – at the same quality settings.

Scaling up is much easier than scaling down.

At what resolution PS2 can play God of War 3 or GTA5 from PS3 ?
Answer: IT is not possible to scale down resolution enough to cover technology difference and asset quality.

You make game assets and graphical technology for 4TF machine for 1080p and scale up to 4k res.
You make game assets and graphical technology for 10-12TF machine at 4k and scale it down to 1080p.

Both have different cost despite looking similar on surface.

One is taking PS2 game and running it on PS3 hardware.
Other one is taking PS3 game and running it on PS2 hardware.

This is why if 4TF console exist then they will be making 4TF games as a base and scale those up to 10-12 TF rather than making 10-12TF games and scaling them down to 4TF.

 

[DaGwaphics]

^ If there is a generational leap across all components (CPU, IO, GPU, RAM, etc.) between the XSX and Lockhart this might be logical. If not, it's more of a fart in the wind.

 

[Dontero]

^ If there is a generational leap across all components (CPU, IO, GPU, RAM, etc.) between the XSX and Lockhart this might be logical. If not, it's more of a fart in the wind.

Againt the point here is that once you make stuff at 12TF you can't just port it down to 4TF. You need to make stuff at 4TF and then port it to 12TF.

 

[DaGwaphics]

Againt the point here is that once you make stuff at 12TF you can't just port it down to 4TF. You need to make stuff at 4TF and then port it to 12TF.

I guess we will see in a week or two how well this ages.

 

[NickFire]

It'll be impossible for this NOT to be the case (just due to having a mandatory SSD in the PS5 compared to a mechanical HDD in the PS4). Plus the generational CPU jump and WHOA!

It feels like some of the same people who swore the S and required cross gen for Xbox would not hold next gen back, are now saying the I/O differences wont matter because of lowest common denominator targeting. Between the S and the decision for all games to keep working on last gen, I'm starting to feel like MS is saying a true next gen can go to hell and all we need are better graphics.

 

[HushiMushi]

It feels like some of the same people who swore the S and required cross gen for Xbox would not hold next gen back, are now saying the I/O differences wont matter because of lowest common denominator targeting. Between the S and the decision for all games to keep working on last gen, I'm starting to feel like MS is saying a true next gen can go to hell and all we need are better graphics.

can we please stop with this nonsense, that XSX is tied to Xbox One Hardware? This is just plain bullshit and FUD.

There are already two games announced that are coming to XSX but not to Xbox One at launch.

There are only first party games coming to xbox one, too. But this is only FOR THE FIRST YEAR and you don't know how, could be the case like forza horizon, that had basically one studio working on the x360 version and one on the xbox one version, also shadow of mordor had some next-gen exclusive features.

 

[NickFire]

can we please stop with this nonsense, that XSX is tied to Xbox One Hardware? This is just plain bullshit and FUD.

There are already two games announced that are coming to XSX but not to Xbox One at launch.

There are only first party games coming to xbox one, too. But this is only FOR THE FIRST YEAR and you don't know how, could be the case like forza horizon, that had basically one studio working on the x360 version and one on the xbox one version, also shadow of mordor had some next-gen exclusive features.

No.

 

[mckmas8808]

It feels like some of the same people who swore the S and required cross gen for Xbox would not hold next gen back, are now saying the I/O differences wont matter because of lowest common denominator targeting. Between the S and the decision for all games to keep working on last gen, I'm starting to feel like MS is saying a true next gen can go to hell and all we need are better resolution and framerate.

Fixed that for ya!

 

[FireFly]

Scaling up is much easier than scaling down.

At what resolution PS2 can play God of War 3 or GTA5 from PS3 ?
Answer: IT is not possible to scale down resolution enough to cover technology difference and asset quality.

Would reducing the resolution of PS3 games to 360p allow them to render on a less powerful device, with similar performance? If so, then resolution scaling works. And the extent to which resolution scaling works can be seen in the benchmarks I linked to.

If performance depends heavily on factors other than resolution (eg. inherent asset quality), then we should be able to see poor resolution scaling in the benchmarks, whether we are moving up or down.

 

[BusierDonkey]

Scaling up is much easier than scaling down.

At what resolution PS2 can play God of War 3 or GTA5 from PS3 ?
Answer: IT is not possible to scale down resolution enough to cover technology difference and asset quality.

You make game assets and graphical technology for 4TF machine for 1080p and scale up to 4k res.
You make game assets and graphical technology for 10-12TF machine at 4k and scale it down to 1080p.

Both have different cost despite looking similar on surface.

One is taking PS2 game and running it on PS3 hardware.
Other one is taking PS3 game and running it on PS2 hardware.

This is why if 4TF console exist then they will be making 4TF games as a base and scale those up to 10-12 TF rather than making 10-12TF games and scaling them down to 4TF.

Well to be fair, half of GTA5 was from the PS2

You're comparing taking a game completely optimized to run on the PS3 cell architecture and making it work on the PS2 Emotion Engine architecture, to a developer building two different optimized spec levels into an game on two consoles with identical architecture at the development level. Those are very different circumstances.

Scaling down is simple, you just pare back. Scaling up is much more difficult unless the higher quality assets were created in advance. If they were already built why wouldn't they have just built them and scaled down? Even back when I used to fart around with Maya making car models it was a very simple process to take a detailed model I'd made, then just reduce triangles to get a final useable product with just minor tweaks to the wireframe. Taking a low poly model and increasing triangles required smoothing as the added triangles still followed the harsh angles on the low poly model. Effects were the same, I could disable various textures like specular and diffuse maps , bump mapping, reduce light sources, etc. It was really simple to do back then and modern design tools have advanced drastically in ease of operation (Less time stumbling around the software means more potential earnings) Artists don't make assets aiming low, that would be a waste of their time and talent, they make assets that both fit the aesthetic they are aiming for with a final spec in mind. If they have to lower the triangle count and texture resolution to meet performance goals it's a lot easier to do that than to find out you had headroom and could have had more detail or fidelity in your assets after the fact.

You start a game high and work down to spec on consoles the same way. Game assets are created as meshes and scaled down, or optimized, to scale to the hardware specifications. You aren't just paring back resolution, you're also paring back texture resolution, anti-aliasing, anisotropic filtering, draw distances, volumetric effects like fog, sun shafts, reflections, LOD change distances, lighting effects/RT ray counts, etc, as needed to optimize the game to run stable on the platform. Most of those can be adjusted on the fly from a workstation through the development software.

It's very similar to how you can take a PC game running 4K/60 that tanks an OC'ed 2080ti/i9 equipped PC and with some settings changed have it perfectly playable on a potato slapped together in 2010. The power difference can be way more than the difference between the Lockhart and the Series X.

This is why minimum specs exist on PC, it's basically the bare minimum required for the game to operate well enough to be playable as intended and stable. The product developers advertise is the game using max setting because that's the game they built, aimed as high or higher than current hardware allows, but you have the option to turn everything down to play it on PCs in multiple performance ranges. They are still the exact same game though. Devs don't build the PC game around the worst PC on the planet, they kindly inform potato players they are shit out of luck and let the guys that can barely play your game know they can play the game. It's actually not that hard to go below minimum specs through programs like profile inspector and play the same game on a laptop, it's just not going to be anything close to what the developers deemed the minimum experience.

With consoles, developers have their artists build all the assets, engines and basically the entire game on PCs at the studio and use the dev kits to test the game in pieces to quickly figure out how many triangles/effects/post process effects the final product can have so they can optimize the game for the end hardware as they go. If the Lockhart does end up being a thing, it will be exactly the same thing as me adjusting PC game settings, only it will be for a fixed 4 TF hardware spec and a separate pre-set for 12TF implemented at the development stage. The Lockhart and Series X will likely both share identical architecture so having a game work on one will literally be scaling down graphical settings and resolution at the factory level. My guess is if it exists Lockhart will be a 1080p/reduced settings/no ray tracing console that will play every game released for the Series X.

 

[BurnCoalMeltPole]

The ‘digital edition’ of the PS5 surprised me. Maybe it will be a $400 PS5 DE vs a $300 Lockhart? Neither interests me in the least, but it appears there may be plenty of consumers ready to tie themselves down to the digital marketplace. How well did the digital edition of the X1 sell?

 

[Tulipanzo]

The ‘digital edition’ of the PS5 surprised me. Maybe it will be a $400 PS5 DE vs a $300 Lockhart? Neither interests me in the least, but it appears there may be plenty of consumers ready to tie themselves down to the digital marketplace. How well did the digital edition of the X1 sell?

The SAD is selling rather poorly, and I don't think PS5 DE would do all that great.

Some are theorizing it may work like the popcorn sizes in cinema, where a cheaper version makes the higher priced "bucket" seem like better value.
At 399 it also makes the Lockhart look even more worthless than it already was.

 

[Deleted member 775630]

After seeing what games PS5 has in the pipeline I don't see any issues with Lockhart running it at 1080p. They just need to get the pricing right

 

[Tulipanzo]

After seeing what games PS5 has in the pipeline I don't see any issues with Lockhart running it at 1080p. They just need to get the pricing right

The problem, as many people have already told you, is that games of that quality will not run at all on Lockhart.
Optimization is a bit harder than clicking the 1080p option on Youtube...

Still, for a guy urging caution just a few posts ago, you seem awfully eager to compare actual gameplay running on a PS5 to an unannounced, unconfirmed, unspecified box with no games shown running.

 

[Boxman]

Scaling down is simple, you just pare back. Scaling up is much more difficult unless the higher quality assets were created in advance. If they were already built why wouldn't they have just built them and scaled down? Even back when I used to fart around with Maya making car models it was a very simple process to take a detailed model I'd made, then just reduce triangles to get a final useable product with just minor tweaks to the wireframe. Taking a low poly model and increasing triangles required smoothing as the added triangles still followed the harsh angles on the low poly model. Effects were the same, I could disable various textures like specular and diffuse maps , bump mapping, reduce light sources, etc. It was really simple to do back then and modern design tools have advanced drastically in ease of operation (Less time stumbling around the software means more potential earnings) Artists don't make assets aiming low, that would be a waste of their time and talent, they make assets that both fit the aesthetic they are aiming for with a final spec in mind. If they have to lower the triangle count and texture resolution to meet performance goals it's a lot easier to do that than to find out you had headroom and could have had more detail or fidelity in your assets after the fact.

Thank you for that information. I was convinced most developers scaled their games upwards, not downwards. I wonder if the same applies to level design, but we'll have to see when Microsoft shows Halo Infinite.

 

[ZywyPL]

After seeing what games PS5 has in the pipeline I don't see any issues with Lockhart running it at 1080p. They just need to get the pricing right

Well, all those troll posts about cross-gen strategy holding back XBX didn't age well. But it was fully expected that the upcoming games will be build on the exact same engines, made for the exact same x86 architecture, with just higher settings and maybe few additional features like RT. The yesterday's games cemented my believes that an XBX build for 1080p (a.k.a. Lockhart) is doable so easily it's not even funny.

 

[DaGwaphics]

The SAD is selling rather poorly, and I don't think PS5 DE would do all that great.

Seems like the limited number of units produced have moved well. I don't see them piled up at retailers on fire sale.

I will say that, on the surface, I like Sony's approach with the diskless PS5 at likely $100 less. They will need to subsidize that model, but since users are limited to the official store (can't even buy codes at retailers), they should recoup.

I'll wait to judge a theoretical lockhart until I see pricing. If base PS5 is $399, which has always been my assumption, lockhart can't really be more than $249.

 

[Tulipanzo]

Seems like the limited number of units produced have moved well. I don't see them piled up at retailers on fire sale.

I will say that, on the surface, I like Sony's approach with the diskless PS5 at likely $100 less. They will need to subsidize that model, but since users are limited to the official store (can't even buy codes at retailers), they should recoup.

I'll wait to judge a theoretical lockhart until I see pricing. If base PS5 is $399, which has always been my assumption, lockhart can't really be more than $249.

We obviously don't have data on the SAD, but I'm seeing it with 3 games and Gold for $200, which is less than the S alone.
It's possibly the worst selling XBox Sku right now.

Ok, that was mean, but I still think the PS5DE is mostly there so they can market PS5 as a lower starting price.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

We obviously don't have data on the SAD, but I'm seeing it with 3 games and Gold for $200, which is less than the S alone.
It's possibly the worst selling XBox Sku right now.

Ok, that was mean, but I still think the PS5DE is mostly there so they can market PS5 as a lower starting price.

It reminded me of the different tiers of ps3.

I expect the digital version of ps5 to come out of the gate weak, and then quietly cancelled after the first year. Sony is not making a big deal out of it. Sink or swim, DE will have to survive on its own merits just like PSVR.

 

[Tulipanzo]

It reminded me of the different tiers of ps3.

I expect the digital version of ps5 to come out of the gate weak, and then quietly cancelled after the first year. Sony is not making a big deal out of it. Sink or swim, DE will have to survive on its own merits just like PSVR.

Yeah, pretty much like PS3.

I don't think it's that dire, as it could do better when it gets much cheaper.
It's just way less attractive of an option, but it's just that, an option.

 

[John254]

Seems like the limited number of units produced have moved well. I don't see them piled up at retailers on fire sale.

I will say that, on the surface, I like Sony's approach with the diskless PS5 at likely $100 less. They will need to subsidize that model, but since users are limited to the official store (can't even buy codes at retailers), they should recoup.

I'll wait to judge a theoretical lockhart until I see pricing. If base PS5 is $399, which has always been my assumption, lockhart can't really be more than $249.

Really? Because discless version for me screams "PS5 won't be cheap"...So I expect base PS5 around 549-599$ and PS5 Digital for 499€

 

[kuncol02]

Seems like the limited number of units produced have moved well. I don't see them piled up at retailers on fire sale.

I will say that, on the surface, I like Sony's approach with the diskless PS5 at likely $100 less. They will need to subsidize that model, but since users are limited to the official store (can't even buy codes at retailers), they should recoup.

I'll wait to judge a theoretical lockhart until I see pricing. If base PS5 is $399, which has always been my assumption, lockhart can't really be more than $249.

XBox SAD was sold for like 140 usd in Poland. That's including 23% sales tax. And even that was bought mostly be people who use Game Pass.

 

[DaGwaphics]

Really? Because discless version for me screams "PS5 won't be cheap"...So I expect base PS5 around 549-599$ and PS5 Digital for 499€

I'm sticking to my guns that the base PS5 won't be a penny more than $399.

We obviously don't have data on the SAD, but I'm seeing it with 3 games and Gold for $200, which is less than the S alone.
It's possibly the worst selling XBox Sku right now.

The whole purpose was for it to be cheaper than S, would be really odd if S was selling for less. It's a limited production model that wasn't available at all retailers, it did its job. Which was primarily to allow for next gen systems to have diskless variants without the "sky is falling" headlines from the gaming press.

 

[Tulipanzo]

The whole purpose was for it to be cheaper than S, would be really odd if S was selling for less. It's a limited production model that wasn't available at all retailers, it did its job. Which was primarily to allow for next gen systems to have diskless variants without the "sky is falling" headlines from the gaming press.

It launched at the same price the XBox One S was at the time, and routinely needs to go cheaper to make up for it.
Last year's BF it was less than £100 with 3 games included, GamesPass and GwG.
It almost never charts anywhere, even though it's routinely cheaper and with games included.

I guess by the metric of "existing on the market but selling poorly", than it succeeded as much as any other XBox One SKU.

 

[DaGwaphics]

It launched at the same price the XBox One S was at the time, and routinely needs to go cheaper to make up for it.
Last year's BF it was less than £100 with 3 games included, GamesPass and GwG.
It almost never charts anywhere, even though it's routinely cheaper and with games included.

I guess by the metric of "existing on the market but selling poorly", than it succeeded as much as any other XBox One SKU.

SAD launched at $250, the 1S is still officially $299. It was hinted right from the beginning that deep discounts would be available along with bundles, etc. If you are going to sell the all digital model, it has to be less than the disk version.

 

[Tulipanzo]

SAD launched at $250, the 1S is still officially $299. It was hinted right from the beginning that deep discounts would be available along with bundles, etc. If you are going to sell the all digital model, it has to be less than the disk version.

There was a genuine outcry from people pissed it wasn't cheaper, and it was the exact same price as the X1S when it launched.
It went into deep discounts, as other people have pointed out, because it wasn't selling.

Similarly to how the X1X is now cheaper than the Pro.

 

[DaGwaphics]

There was a genuine outcry from people pissed it wasn't cheaper, and it was the exact same price as the X1S when it launched.
It went into deep discounts, as other people have pointed out, because it wasn't selling.

Similarly to how the X1X is now cheaper than the Pro.

The official price of the 1TB S model has always been $299, SAD launched at $249.

SAD was a proof in concept, not much more. https://www.vgchartz.com/article/44...igital-edition-a-key-driver-of-holiday-sales/

 

[Tulipanzo]

The official price of the 1TB S model has always been $299, SAD launched at $249.

SAD was a proof in concept, not much more. https://www.vgchartz.com/article/44...igital-edition-a-key-driver-of-holiday-sales/

The official price doesn't matter if everyone could find X1S at 250 or less, which is exactly why people complained about it at the time.

The link you posted is the BF discount I mentioned, and it was seemingly the only time the thing charted since it launched.
If you need to sell something at less than £99 with 3 games and 2 subscriptions to move unit than it is selling badly.

 

[Marlenus]

Againt the point here is that once you make stuff at 12TF you can't just port it down to 4TF. You need to make stuff at 4TF and then port it to 12TF.

You build the main threads based on what the cpu can do so aslong as the S has an 8c16t zen2 cpu @ 3.5+Ghz then all is good. Scaling the graphics is easy and virtually all games need to do that anyway to run on different spec PCs.

 

[JLB]

Too bad games on XSX and PS5 will run at lower resolution and reconstruct to 4K, using the extra GPU power to virtualize geometry.
This pushes the Lockhart sub-1080p.

It's to be expected, when new consoles launch, for minimum requirements to shoot up on PC.

We dont know specs of Series S. We dont know if it exists. We dont dont if it will eventually get released. We simply dont know too many things to speculate.

 

[Dontero]

You build the main threads based on what the cpu can do so aslong as the S has an 8c16t zen2 cpu @ 3.5+Ghz then all is good. Scaling the graphics is easy and virtually all games need to do that anyway to run on different spec PCs.

Explain me how you can easily scale graphics when 4TF version will not support Global Illumination and all of your assets do not have baked Global Illumination and a lot of baked shadow.

 

[FireFly]

Explain me how you can easily scale graphics when 4TF version will not support Global Illumination and all of your assets do not have baked Global Illumination and a lot of baked shadow.

The 4TF version should support exactly the same effects as the 12TF version, if it is also running RDNA2. If the GI is already baked in, then it doesn't need to be calculated at run time, hence the power of the GPU doesn't matter. If it's dynamic, then the GPU does matter, but we would expect these effects to scale with resolution.

 

[Dontero]

The 4TF version should support exactly the same effects as the 12TF version, if it is also running RDNA2. If the GI is already baked in, then it doesn't need to be calculated at run time, hence the power of the GPU doesn't matter. If it's dynamic, then the GPU does matter, but we would expect these effects to scale with resolution.

Sorry but you are terribly ignorant.

GI requires a lot of horsepower to run. Just because both will use RDNA2 it doesn't mean 4TF will be able to run game with GI at 30FPS. Same with Raytracing and other effects we are yet to see.

Secondly effects usually do not scale with resolution. They have their own internal "resolution" And just because you can scale game resolution it doesn't mean you can scale some effect resolution because some effect might break if it doesn't run at certain quality level.

As for baking. No one will make 2 kinds of assets. Moreover if one game support dynamic GI and other one is baking it, it means that both of those will have to work with game like they are working with baked GI so no camera shots allowing to see dynamic GI no gameplay elements with dynamic gi and so on.

 

[Tulipanzo]

We dont know specs of Series S. We dont know if it exists. We dont dont if it will eventually get released. We simply dont know too many things to speculate.

We know its teraflop count, and that it has a worse CPU, "significantly less" RAM and "presumably" an SSD.. Developers reportedly really dislike it.
That's plenty to start speculating about it, and the entire premise of the thread.

Despite, as you said, not knowing specs or whether it will release at all, people seem all to eager to paint it as a certified massive success, and as incredibly easy to develop for.
Yet, I don't see you urging them not to speculate; how curious

 

[FireFly]

Sorry but you are terribly ignorant.

GI requires a lot of horsepower to run. Just because both will use RDNA2 it doesn't mean 4TF will be able to run game with GI at 30FPS. Same with Raytracing and other effects we are yet to see.

Secondly effects usually do not scale with resolution. They have their own internal "resolution" And just because you can scale game resolution it doesn't mean you can scale some effect resolution because some effect might break if it doesn't run at certain quality level.

As for baking. No one will make 2 kinds of assets. Moreover if one game support dynamic GI and other one is baking it, it means that both of those will have to work with game like they are working with baked GI so no camera shots allowing to see dynamic GI no gameplay elements with dynamic gi and so on.

You were the one bringing up baked lighting, not me. Regarding GI, which implementation were you referring to? I found this benchmark from Nvidia showing the performance of Voxel Cone Tracing at different resolutions:

8ms @ 512x512
27ms @ 720p
62ms @ 1080p

http://developer.download.nvidia.com/GTC/PDF/GTC2012/PresentationPDF/SB134-Voxel-Cone-Tracing-Octree-Real-Time-Illumination.pdf

Here you can see how the ray traced GI solution in Metro Exodus scales with resolution:

Metro Exodus Ray Tracing Benchmarked

It's time for us to talk about ray tracing once again, this time in Metro Exodus, the latest game to integrate support for Nvidia's RTX technology. Metro...

www.techspot.com

 

[Marlenus]

Explain me how you can easily scale graphics when 4TF version will not support Global Illumination and all of your assets do not have baked Global Illumination and a lot of baked shadow.

Reduce the number of rays cast for the lower resolution.

 

[Dontero]

Just drop the resolution ! Easy.

Thanks to this amazing technology of lowering resolution you will be able to play Resident Evil 8 on WiiU and Switch.

 

[JLB]

We know its teraflop count, and that it has a worse CPU, "significantly less" RAM and "presumably" an SSD.. Developers reportedly really dislike it.
That's plenty to start speculating about it, and the entire premise of the thread.

Despite, as you said, not knowing specs or whether it will release at all, people seem all to eager to paint it as a certified massive success, and as incredibly easy to develop for.
Yet, I don't see you urging them not to speculate; how curious

Its rational to speculate that if Lockhart is a thing, it will run all XSX games at lower specs. How hard or easy is to do it, I have no idea, im not a game developer. But if some of the current gen games can run on Switch (and I dont think theres a single case of a game that was downgraded on ps4/xbox to make it "possible" on Switch) I think its safe to guess that sth similar will happen here.

 

[FireFly]

I guess all those people with 5500 XT 4 GBs who are seeing better framerates at 1080p then their friends who have 5700 XTs running at 4K, must be having some kind of collective hallucination. We should tell them their performance is imaginary, since you can't run Crysis on a Commodore 64