-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Digital Foundry vs Mario Kart 8
- Thread starter XDDX
- Start date
Nicktendo86
Member
Same, thank god couldn't see it at all which I am surprised by as I am usually really sensitive to this sort of thing. Was just struck by how smooth it was, looks soooooo good.
ChainsawFilms
Member
I've been watching these webm's in the build-up to the release and just thought it was encoding / my laptop having problems. Now it's confirmed to be in the game itself, and I know I'm in the minority here, I'm genuinely upset. I just don't know if I'm going to get on with it, and I'm partial to motion sickness in some games so that's another concern I now have.
Some of the responses in this thread are incredible. Dismissive of other gamer's concerns, that's not cool.
I wish I didn't notice it, really do.
Davey Cakes
Member
It's great that there's so much discussion going on about MK8.
My only issue? It makes the wait more painful. 6 days...
My only issue? It makes the wait more painful. 6 days...
Dead Man Typing
Member
I just watched on of the Gamersyde vids and the stutter doesn't seem like it will bother me, but I wont know for sure until I get hands on with the controller again (I played it at an event last October and didn't notice anything then). But it is an interesting technical fact and I like the theorising about the a.i updating roughly once a second instead of every frame - that is an interesting idea and would probably rule out a patch correcting the issue, if it was by design. (but we can still hope)
The split screen implementation sounds very clever and I look forward to seeing it for myself. I wonder if other games will start using a similar set up. I am really happy that the 2 player split screen is 60 with 3/4 players being 30fps. Overlooking the a.i stutter issue it looks like the framerate never deviates from a solid 30 - which is kind of crazy with the amount that goes on with 4 player games of Mario Kart.
No anti-aliasing was noticeable on the starting line up, but once the race began I didn't notice anything that stood out to me. It just looks amazing in motion.
Good job Nintendo, good job Digital Foundry and dark10x - shameful display by a lot of NeoGAF members in this thread on both sides of the console war, but good job to the people who are actually trying to discuss the article.
prag16
Banned
I played the demo again after reading the DF piece, and I still wasn't able to perceive this issue. And I normally have a good eye for stuff like this, being fully familiar with the refresh rate related "judder" effect from gaming on PC for many years.
In this webm, I did notice what you guys are referring to, only when locking focus completely on the upside down "star cup" text. I couldn't really perceive it when focusing anywhere else.
I'm pretty confident I never would have noticed this if DF didn't call attention to it. Even now, I probably won't. If I DO see any miniscule hitches, my brain will probably gloss right over it (console games have trained me to gloss over much much worse..).
No need to shit on DF; they're doing their jobs. They nitpick everything.
At the same time, I can't believe a handful of people are dead serious in cancelling preorders over this. Absolutely blows my mind.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
I can't fucking take microstuttering (this is what it is right?) when there's a lot of camera movement
The end result is similar to microstutter, though perhaps not as frequent per second due to this being an extra frame exactly every 64 frames. Microsutter drives me nuts as well. The 60fps videos make it look not as bad as many games that suffer from it. But it is noticeable.
Saint Gregory
Member
I'm OK with it, anyone who would cancel their preorder over an issue like this was probably going to pick Metal Mario anyway.At the same time, I can't believe a handful of people are dead serious in cancelling preorders over this. Absolutely blows my mind.
rokkerkory
Member
Wow this is really weird... but doesn't hurt game play so prob is ok? Curious to the once seen cannot unseen statement tho.
ChainsawFilms
Member
Microstutter is the uneven distribution of frames. Unfortunately DF don't go into that in their article, so I'm going to assume distribution is pretty smooth. This repeated frame is quite different. Must be a bug, and bugs get fixed.
Killing_Joke
Member
Can't see it either but the article hardly made it seem like it was the end of the world like some of you took it.
dark_prinny
Banned
Yeah, The wait is unbearable at this point!
PreyingShark
Member
*Bowser/Wario/Morton/Fat Mii on Sport/Comet/Jet/Yoshi Bike on Slim/Slick Wheels
I'm calling it now and am actually willing to do an avatar bet on this.
Davey Cakes
Member
When I watch a webm and really look for it, I can kind of see it. During actual gameplay I'm not sure if it'll be perceptible.
Unfortunate for those who could always see and can't unsee though.
Unfortunate for those who could always see and can't unsee though.
kitchenmotors
Banned
Don't notice anything in the videos and webm's I've seen. Non-issue really, but hopefully for those that have trained eyes this bug is fixed in a patch.
There are no real performance issues per say.
A patch should fix this timing bug right up.
This is so weird, there were last e3 where people played it, the best buy event, the GameStop event, press playing it at a private event, reviewers having it month early, GameStop demo station and nothing was said about how jarring and unplayable mk8 is.
Df releases this analysis now everyone notices it and saying how unplayable it is.
I know there are some that actually noticed it before the article I guess.
Df releases this analysis now everyone notices it and saying how unplayable it is.
I know there are some that actually noticed it before the article I guess.
Yeha, that's exactly what "everyone" is saying.
More likely a simple frame buffer bug, than anything.
You better read the thread before trying to be funny.
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
I just spent a considerable amount of time pressing 'advance to next frame' in the video player here on one of the Gamersyde videos (Sunshine Airport).
1. Yes, there's micro stutter in the amount of 1 frame once in a while.
2. The 1-frame stutter does _not_ occur every second. No AI during those "pauses", I guess?
3. What happens when the AI needs to respond to something during the rest of the 60-something frames of a second where there's absolutely no stutter - no AI during that time? No clashes, no spinouts, no item uses? Really?
This 'theoriszing' is really a sign of people posting before thinking. Not a big deal in itself, happens all the time, but when people regurgitate the same ridiculous theory time and again, it shows fundamental reluctance to think.
dark_prinny
Banned
It´s a Digital Foundry thread. It´s the proper place to discuss it, don´t you think?
ChainsawFilms
Member
No it's not
The timing of those frames - are those 60 frames per second coming out of the console exactly 1/60th of a second. The time between frame updates, not the number of frames themselves.
Herb Alpert
Banned
Apparently some with super trained eye consider it super annoying since it has been pointed out by DF. What's incredible is that nobody mentionned it earlier and the game has been out for the press for the last 2 weeks, with all the videos and shit.
A "repeat frame" implies uneven time between new frame updates. The video output hardware itself always uses intervals of 1/60th of a second. A "repeat frame" implies that an occasional frame is output twice, which means it's a frame that displays for 1/30th of a second despite other frames displaying for 1/60th of a second.No it's not
Saint Gregory
Member
It seems like they're hiding the CPU cycles for the AI behind that dupe frame. It's certainly possible that they can find the performance to cover the AI in a patch but considering how long the game has been in development I'm not holding my breath.
Most people who are already playing the game probably don't even know how to describe what the problem is. Again, look how many journalists thought it was 1080p.
ChainsawFilms
Member
Sorry but I don't think you know what microstuttering is. Those 59+1 frame may be perfectly distributed at 16.6ms each frame. Microstuttering is quite different to what we're seeing here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micro_stuttering
Dude, are we brothers? (At least in name!)
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
The people defensive reactions to this article is strange, this is hardly something to get offended over.
The press is a terrible source of technical information. Their ignorance is the reason Digital Foundry has found a place in the minds of core gamers.
Maybe these people haven't been pouring over 60fps video footage of the game for the last two weeks? Maybe they would have assumed that something introduced the stutter during the video encoding or playback?
It's not like everyone here has had a copy of the game to play for the last 2 weeks, in order to know that the problem was with the software itself.
Really though, hahaha. I don't understand these "they're being so nitpicky!" when that is why they are who they are. If IGN or whoever were to use this and it affected their overall review, then you would have every right to say that but it's DF.
Shit, I can see the stuttering. I didn't notice it from the Gamersyde videos before, but unless these WebM clips in the thread are enhanced I'm going to be screwed. All the youtube videos being in 30fps definitely helped.
This is something annoying enough that I can picture a patch happening. Otherwise, I'll just try to sit through it for 150cc races and do most of the rest online.
This is something annoying enough that I can picture a patch happening. Otherwise, I'll just try to sit through it for 150cc races and do most of the rest online.
After watching several 60 fps videos were it's "obvious" I'm going to go with a placebo effect. From the moment you know "it's supposed to be there", then it suddenly becomes "jarring".
Even to the trained eye, a 1/64th difference is barely noticeable at all. Some very rare people will see it all the time (I don't doubt it) but 99.99% will never see it.
Even to the trained eye, a 1/64th difference is barely noticeable at all. Some very rare people will see it all the time (I don't doubt it) but 99.99% will never see it.
That actually seems like a clever trick to make sure it runs at near 60fps constantly rather than 30fps, and I don't think Nintendo should bother trying to fix it if it's not a simple thing to do - if it only affects races with CPUs then it won't even occur with races that consist entirely of human opponents. Obviously it sucks that the microstutter happens but it seems like it's a consequence of how the game is designed.
PreyingShark
Member
I noticed it on the Gamersyde videos without anybody prompting it to me. I just didn't bring it up because I thought it was just the video and not the game.
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
59 FPS????
I don't have the words...
(can't stop laughing)
I don't have the words...
(can't stop laughing)
People need to adopt this perspective more. If DF is paying attention to such details and explaining why then it shows they will be diligent on games with even more obvious problems and will be able to explain part of the reason why that is happening and if you have a PC you might be able to correct it. Otherwise you'll have to contact the developers and with DF info in mind you'll be able to complain to them with more concrete reasons.
I can't believe this thread has gone on for 14+ pages.
That ending statement cuts both ways. Certain people could have fun with the critique instead of foaming over the mouth or trying to act superior (even though they clearly are no smarter than myself on these tech matters) to a publication that has a clearly defined mission and does something that is sorely lacking everywhere else.
Uh, so your only criteria for an "even distribution of frames" is that they're technically leaving the console in 1/60th second intervals?
Then I'm not sure what the usefulness of this discussion is, because then every vsync'd game ever on a console using 60Hz video output, including horribly stuttery stuff like Bioshock Infinite on 360, has "an even distribution of frames."
What would you consider uneven!?