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The Official Fallout 3 thread of post-apocalyptic proportions!

Mooreberg

Member
Whre are
the coils to move the train to get to the Air Force Base?

Ghoul mask = awesome. It is funny to let the sentry bots handle the clean and up and just loot the corpses later.
 

AndresON777

shooting blanks
X26 said:
Had no idea what you were talking about so I googled, damn I had no idea. Good choice, deserts and fallout go together like uh...two things that go really well together


peas and carrots baby

or

liquor and sluts.


Moreberg said:
Whre are the coils to move the train to get to the Air Force Base?

Ghoul mask = awesome. It is funny to let the sentry bots handle the clean and up and just loot the corpses later.

you dont have to find the coils or anything. you just have to kill all of the ghouls to prevent the security breech. Did you talk to margot? the ai computer that's like president eden? the train starts working once you flip the switch in the room where the train is. Actually I think a sentry robot got it working for me. Then just get on the car and press the button
 
eXistor said:
I think I'm finally over FO3. I love the game, but they're really grasping at straws now. The first two expansions were shit (especially Operation Achorage) and BS is just an extra generic quest in standard FO3 style. The game froze on me (I also saw a bunch of other glitches I never saw during the main game) and I really don't want to start the game up again, it was just so boring. The new enemies do no damage at all and are basically giant bullet-sponges (those new feral Ghouls take an absolute ridiculous amount of damage) I was never close to dying either, the tension is just completely gone now. Oh well, I had a good 95 hours of fun out of it all.
maybe my character just sucks but i am getting my ass handed to me by some of the new enemies. the new super mutants and the fire enclave soldiers are making me actually have to use my stimpacks again (something I barely had to do after I hit level 20)

then again, I'm still only level 21 now. taking my time. gonna go hunt down all the super mutant behemoths and find all the bobbleheads.

this may end up being the first game I get all the achievements on
 

AndresON777

shooting blanks
I only have it on hard but if it wasnt for Fawkes The Bullet Shield I'd be getting reamed.

The hellfire troops with the flame gun are tough
 

Mooreberg

Member
ChrisGoldstein said:
peas and carrots baby

or

liquor and sluts.




you dont have to find the coils or anything. you just have to kill all of the ghouls to prevent the security breech. Did you talk to margot? the ai computer that's like president eden? the train starts working once you flip the switch in the room where the train is. Actually I think a sentry robot got it working for me. Then just get on the car and press the button

Yeah talked to her/it. Killed the Ghouls. I hope this isn't a glitch. :-\
 

neoism

Member
Also, for all your 360'ers out there, the Achievements started working yesterday. You can now collect them, they will add to your gamerscore, and you can now see them in comparisons with other people.

HOWEVER

The achievements you've already collected aren't adding retroactively yet. So theres two ways you can go about getting your Broken Steel achievements.

1: Recover your gamertag. Doing so will wipe all the achievements that exist-but-dont-exist. You know what I mean if you've had this problem. Unfortunately, this also means you're going to have to go and collect these achievements again.

2. Wait for Microsoft to patch your achievements retroactively back in. This could take anywhere from a couple of days to weeks to MONTHS, so just be warned.
:D
 

A Human Becoming

More than a Member
Grrrrr I went back to a save before I completed Operation Anchorage to redo it for experience, but it isn't showing up under quests nor is the Pitt, which I just downloaded. >.<

EDIT: Doesn't load on my newest save either.

EDIT 2: Nevermind, just loads very slowly.
 

AndresON777

shooting blanks
neoism said:


lol fuck you microsoft. You owe me 60 gamerscore. I got 1/3, the final one that I got early this morning. This is such bs. Oh well 60 gamerscore and 2 achievements wont kill me.

FUCK

I WANT MY SPACEBUCKS BACK, OR A PARTIAL REFUND

damn I wish I knew how to put an angry emoticon
 

burgerdog

Member
Ran into the new Enclave enemies and got that super awesome flamethrower, then I met the new Super Mutant Overlord and got the tri-laser-rifle, so fucking awesome. It's great to be back in FO3. I think I'll download OA and get those goodies now.
 
fuckgfwl.png


WTF? I have absolutely nothing in the background. I can't play F3 before updating GFWL. What a piece of shit.
 

AkuMifune

Banned
2. Wait for Microsoft to patch your achievements retroactively back in. This could take anywhere from a couple of days to weeks to MONTHS, so just be warned.

Is there some process I have to initiate for this option, or will it just happen automatically for me at some point?

Luckily I had the foresight to hard save before each achievement, so I guess it doesn't really matter, but the less effort on my part the better.
 
Okay, I was able to get through the update, but now I'm upset that BS (appropriate name?) doesn't seem to work with my old saves. I have an old Level 20 and the Pipboy says XP is maxed out. Are you telling me you HAVE to reach Level 20 WITH BS installed? Holy shit, now that is some BS. My latest character is only Level 9 and I've had enough of my fill of F3 without DLC.
 

Papercuts

fired zero bullets in the orphanage.
ChoklitReign said:
Okay, I was able to get through the update, but now I'm upset that BS (appropriate name?) doesn't seem to work with my old saves. I have an old Level 20 and the Pipboy says XP is maxed out. Are you telling me you HAVE to reach Level 20 WITH BS installed? Holy shit, now that is some BS. My latest character is only Level 9 and I've had enough of my fill of F3 without DLC.

BS takes awhile to load, eventually you'll get a pop up saying the max level was raised to 30.
 

Piano

Banned
ChoklitReign said:
Okay, I was able to get through the update, but now I'm upset that BS (appropriate name?) doesn't seem to work with my old saves. I have an old Level 20 and the Pipboy says XP is maxed out. Are you telling me you HAVE to reach Level 20 WITH BS installed? Holy shit, now that is some BS. My latest character is only Level 9 and I've had enough of my fill of F3 without DLC.
You have to go through the end of the game, cutscene and all, for BS to begin, I believe.
Could be wrong, though.
 
ChoklitReign said:
WTF? I have absolutely nothing in the background. I can't play F3 before updating GFWL. What a piece of shit.


I had that same error with Shadowrun PC and IIRC it has to do with the version of Live. Do you have the most recent version from Microsoft?
 
Gutted... enabling Alchemy with my XI-FI soundcard finally fixed the stupid stuttering issue I've been having with the radio stations. Glorious, glorious music is returned to me.

Which would be fine, except it also seems to cause fairly regular crashes. :(
 
My mods list:

FOOK and FWE arent comaptible anymore (at the moment) in the future probably, right now, nope, so pick either FWE and other mods, OR FOOK and other mods, not FWE & FOOK together! I personally am using FWE instead of FOOK right now because FOOK is the more beta-ish of the 2 mods, and it seems the community is focusing on FWE in terms of keeping mods compatible and updated with it, and FOOK is more of a waiting game till the "non beta" release is released (when? who knows).

Utilities said:

ArchiveInvalidation Invalidated
http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=944 - Needed if you use mods, run it once after you install Fallout 3, click activate, your done!
Fallout 3 Mod Manager - Needed for load order, yes really!
Fallout Script Extender - Needed for some mods, will auto detect/launch when using fomm to launch fallout 3
FO3Edit - Strongly Recommend Tool to create a merged patch and other uses for better stability (see bottom of post)
BOSS-F (Better Oblivion Sorting Software for Fallout 3 - Strongly Recommend Sorts your mods load order into the most compatible list, make sure to download the masterupdate...update also on the page, it will place unknown mods at the end of the list, so those are on you to read those mods readmes on where in a load order they should go. This utility is a good time saver (ps. run the .bat not the .exe, and put all the files inside your "/data/" folder), think of this utility as "correct load order, for dummies" or something.

Patches said:
Official 1.7 Fallout 3 Patch - Official Patch etc.... GOTY Edition already comes patched with this.

The Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch (and DLC patches) were here originally however they havent been updated inawhile and can actually cause issues using newer mods, so dont bother with them anymore.

The 2 "Big" game changing mods right now are Fallout Wanderers Edition, and FOOK, in the past these two could be used at the same time however, right now they do not work together so choose 1 that suits your tastes and then add mods that work with them (FWE seems to have more cross mod support than FOOK at the moment, so FWE is what im using personally)



Fallout Wanderers Edition said:
FWE - FO3 Wanderers Edition - Rebalances the entire game, makes it harder, more realistic, but imo more rewarding experience, real time combat is more like a fps, and VATS is much more deadly, to the enemy, but also to you, if you don't take them down within your "turn" (during VATS the enemy damage is now at 100% to you, compared to 10% to you in the original version)

FOOK said:
FOOK 2.0 - Adds a TON of new weapons /armors/ items to the world, it also tweaks things in the world and adds little touches here and there (for example the atomic bomb in megaton is now built onto a alter of sorts which has a podium that Confessor Cromwell goes to now, and his skin texture looks more radiated and ghoulish, from being near the bomb so often, instead of just like a normal person)


Mods that can work with both FOOK and FWE (unless noted otherwise) said:
Marts Mutant Mod - Adds new ai behavior, factions, unique monsters, Fallout 1 and 2 enemies, varied "skins" and stats/sizes/demeanor for all enemies, dead bodies decompose into skeletons, ghouls travel in packs of 10 or more, and can RISE from the dead unless you shoot em in the head (this is optional)!
Weapon Mod Kits - Add silencers, scopes, laser sights, extended ammo clips to weapons
EVE - Energy Visuals Enhanced (FWE ONLY) - New energy weapon effects, and critical kills!
Robco Certified - Build and command your own robot army
Wasteland Whisperer - Tame, befriend, and command the wildlife in fallout 3
Owned - When you kill a person you now "own" their house, as your own, for sleeping, goods storage, etc.
Darnified UI - Install the omod version of this (its easier) after you ran the game once(so it creates the proper entries in the fallout.ini). Makes the UI smaller and more pc-like
Fallout Interoperability Program - FOIP - These have the .esps, that make most of the listed mods work with FWE or FOOK

and extra misc mods I run, haven't seen issues yet in tandem with all of the above

Misc. Mods said:
Real Time Settler - Create and help expand your own town!
BuildableBots - More Buildable robot options! (DOWNLOAD the mod below this if using BOTH Robco Certified, and this!)
Robco Certified Buildable Bots - Makes Robco Certified, and Buildable Bot mods, play nice together, load this mod after both of those!
No Radio Static - Takes the crackling and popping noise out of the radio music
GTS - Global Travel System - Makes the whole world visitable, Now "Fallout 3" is just "DC", the whole world is open to visit, as long as modders make something to visit!
Fellout - The Fallout 3 Weather Overhaul - Makes the world look normal, not green tinted, also can make the nights VERY VERY DARK..optionally
Enhanced Weather - Rain and Snow - Heres a demo Video
GreenWorld - This adds some grass and trees to the wasteland (its been 200 years...) i use version 2.0
Project Beauty - Fixes the butterfaces of some of the npcs


assuming you download and use all those here is my load order that loads, and doesn't crash (too ...much)

note I have all the dlc, so if you don't, don't load their relevant .esp fixes from certain mods below (otherwise it could crash your game).


You can paste this load order in a .txt file then right click in FOMM and select import load order (point to your .txt file you made) and use this to quickly order them, other mods not in my list will show unchecked at the bottom of the list, just check em and left click drag up where you want them (depending on what they change you may want them before or after certain mods since a mod below another mod, will override any changes to the same "thing" , for example Mod #1 makes a gun blue color, Mod #2 below it colors the same gun red color, the gun will be red in game).

Load Order said:
[X] Fallout3.esm
[X] Anchorage.esm
[X] ThePitt.esm
[X] BrokenSteel.esm
[X] PointLookout.esm
[X] Zeta.esm
[X] CRAFT.esm
[X] CALIBR.esm
[X] Project Beauty.esm
[X] FO3 Wanderers Edition - Main File.esm
[X] Mart's Mutant Mod.esm
[X] Enhanced Weather - Rain and Snow.esm
[X] RTS NW.esm
[X] DarNifiedUIF3.esp
[X] Project Beauty- Broken Steel.esp
[X] Project Beauty- Point Lookout.esp
[X] CRAFT - Activation Perk.esp
[X] GreenWorld.esp
[X] FO3 Wanderers Edition - Main File.esp
[X] FO3 Wanderers Edition - DLC Anchorage.esp
[X] FO3 Wanderers Edition - DLC The Pitt.esp
[X] FO3 Wanderers Edition - DLC Broken Steel.esp
[X] FO3 Wanderers Edition - DLC Point Lookout.esp
[X] FO3 Wanderers Edition - DLC Mothership Zeta.esp
[X] FO3 Wanderers Edition - Project Beauty.esp
[X] WeaponModKits.esp
[X] WeaponModKits - FWE Master Release.esp
[X] WeaponModKits - FWE Optional Worn Weapons.esp
[X] WeaponModKits - OperationAnchorage.esp
[X] WeaponModKits - ThePitt.esp
[X] WeaponModKits - BrokenSteel.esp
[X] WeaponModKits - PointLookout.esp
[X] WeaponModKits - Zeta.esp
[X] EVE.esp
[X] EVE Operation Anchorage.esp
[X] EVE - FWE Master Release.esp
[X] EVE Anchorage - FWE DLC Anchorage.esp
[X] EVE - FWE with WeaponModKits.esp
[X] Mart's Mutant Mod.esp
[X] Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC Anchorage.esp
[X] Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC The Pitt.esp
[X] Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC Broken Steel.esp
[X] Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC Point Lookout.esp
[X] Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC Zeta.esp
[X] Mart's Mutant Mod - No Corpse Flies.esp
[X] Mart's Mutant Mod - No DLC Increased Spawns.esp
[X] Mart's Mutant Mod - No Ghoul Raise.esp
[X] Mart's Mutant Mod - Feral Ghoul Rampage.esp
[X] Mart's Mutant Mod - Hunting & Looting.esp
[X] Mart's Mutant Mod - Natural Selection.esp
[X] Mart's Mutant Mod - Project Beauty.esp
[X] Mart's Mutant Mod - FWE Master Release.esp
[X] Mart's Mutant Mod - Project Beauty + FWE.esp
[X] Enhanced Weather - Rain and Snow in Fallout.esp
[X] Enhanced Weather - Weather Sounds in Interiors.esp
[X] Enhanced Weather - Sneak Bonus during Storms.esp
[X] Fellout-Full.esp
[X] mergedpatch.esp


now that youve done all that take this final step in making your game more stable, tutorial taken from Shadowburn on FOOK Forum

How to make and use a Merged Patch and Master Update said:
Creating a Merged Patch and then running Master Update using FO3Edit is a process that preferably all should learn to do, as it can seriously reduce the frequency of crashes and eliminate some crashes altogether. It will increase stability for all mods, not just FOOK2. It will almost definately be needed once people start running lots of overhaul mods when FOOK2 comes out of beta, so its a good idea to learn the process now.

Okay, first up you'll need FO3Edit, which is what this whole process is based on.

Presuming you've manage to install FO3Edit correctly, launch FOMM and check all the mods you want to merge (IE, the mods you want to use), then close it.

Open up FO3Edit and all the mods you just ticked should all be ticked in the list, too. If they're not, either go back into FOMM and retick them, or just tick them in FO3Edit, then click OK. Then the box on the right will start processing a whole list of names, numbers and whatnot. Wait until the box on the right says 'Background Loader: finished', and all your mods' names should appear in the box on the left. If you find reports of errors in the loader list, either resolve them or remove the mod at fault from your mod list. Errors now will potentially cause big problems later.

Once you've checked everything is hunky-dory, and 'Background Loader: finished' has appeared, is time to create our merged patch. To create said patch, right click anywhere on the box on the left (where your mods are) and select 'create merged patch' near the bottom of the list. Give it a name, and click OK.

Once the box on the right has finished whirring and purring, either press Ctrl+S or try and close FO3Edit to be prompted with a Save Changed Files box. Make sure your new Merged Patch is ticked, and press OK.

Next, re-launch FOMM, and tick your Merged Patch, which should be last in your load order. Very last. I dont care what anyone says in their mod descriptions, load your Merged Patch last.

Last step is to run Master Update. To do this, we need to rename your FO3Edit. Not the shortcut, the .exe itself. Rename it to FO3MasterUpdate. FO3Edit, being a clever little program, will recognise its new role in modding society, and should load a little differently. If it's actually running in the right mode, it's name at the top should be changed to FO3MasterUpdate. Suprise suprise.

Once again, on loading MasterUpdate there should be some whirring and purring, and eventually the box will say '--= All Done =--'. If it doesn't, you're probably running in the wrong mode. Once thats done, close MasterUpdate to save the changes, and launch FOSE (providing you have it, which you should, otherwise normal FO3). Tada! Your game should now run much smoother.

Now, if you want to reverse the Master Update process (the Merged Patch is easy, just untick it in your load order), which you need to do if you want to edit/work on one of the mods that were Master Updated, all you need to do is rename FO3Edit/FO3MasterUpdate to FO3MasterRestore and run the program again. Note you can actually create the copies of the .exe, named FO3Edit FO3MasterUpdate and FO3MasterRestore for ease of use.

For further reading, I highly recommend Miax's Tome of FO3Edit, although thats probably more interesting to modders than mod-users.
 

RSTEIN

Comics, serious business!
Just downloaded Broken Steel tonight. Man, felt so good to get back into the world of Fallout. After I finish the missions and explore the wastes (only a few more locations to discover) Anchorage and Pitt here I come!
 

neoism

Member
ZombieSupaStar said:
WTF I'm to stupid for PC gaming!
I've decided to get ES5 on PC, for Mods, but wtf that's alot of work, and I'm not sure I could handle losing my save file either!
 

Jaagen

Member
ChoklitReign said:
I can't finish Project Purity without the normal ending. How/when the hell does BS kick in?

The main BS quest kicks in after the normal ending. You need to see that first(asuming it's activated)
 

Papercuts

fired zero bullets in the orphanage.
:lol

Holy crap at the nuclear anomaly perk, you're close to invincible with it. Once your HP goes below 20, everyone nearby can say goodbye...and it heals you back up to a few hundred. I only managed to die by drowning(your hp drops, you blow up and gain health but still die before you can blow up again) and an albino radscorpion and deathclaw rushed at me and damaged me in a way that made me never technically go below 20 health, I just died instead.
 

xbhaskarx

Member
Damnit, I had no idea the Lucky 8 Ball from the Big Town quest increased Luck by 1, since it didn't say that anywhere. I probably sold it for like 10 caps.
Are there other items that have effects that are not stated?
 

TheFallen

Member
Argh, I want Fallout 3 so bad. This game needs a price drop badly. Lowest I can seem to find it is for $45 USD. Add in 3 DLC and that's way too much right now lol. $75 :(
 

Double D

Member
I started it up again last night (pc) and messed around a bit while deciding if I should buy some of this (haven't bouhgt any dlc). Anyways, I found this game freezing about every 15 minutes. During my initial playthrough, it froze a few times, but nothing like this.

I want to buy/play the dlc, but not if it's going to be like this. Help!
 

Tobor

Member
TheFallen said:
Argh, I want Fallout 3 so bad. This game needs a price drop badly. Lowest I can seem to find it is for $45 USD. Add in 3 DLC and that's way too much right now lol. $75 :(

I've paid close to $100 for the game and 3 DLC's and it's worth every penny considering the amount of time and fun you get.
 

HK-47

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
xbhaskarx said:
Damnit, I had no idea the Lucky 8 Ball from the Big Town quest increased Luck by 1, since it didn't say that anywhere. I probably sold it for like 10 caps.
Are there other items that have effects that are not stated?

I think the 8 Ball is unique like that. And yes its stupid its modifier isnt stated in a game were wearing a lab coat some how gives you plus five science.
 

paparazzo

Member
So I just ordered Fallout 3 for PS3 (new, $35 shipped on ebay ftw!), anything I should know before getting started? Suggested stats?
 

teh_pwn

"Saturated fat causes heart disease as much as Brawndo is what plants crave."
I've played all 3 DLC, and this one is by far the best. The Alaska one was terrible...it didn't feel like FL3 at all. It felt like a really bad call of duty with the fallout 3 engine. Pitt was okay. Broken Steele felt like a seamless expansion to the original. Plenty of combat, and good level design.

Bethesda still hasn't fixed a bug (assuming it's software) that crashes my 360 about every 3 hours. Sometimes when I fast travel to a new area, the old music track keeps playing, and then another starts. Half of the time, the game will lock up within a couple of minutes. Seems like a race condition on a shared resource.
 

BeeDog

Member
Somehow, after purchasing The Pitt and BS, they've made my installation much more unstable. I had frequent crashes before (that were completely random), but now they're even more frequent, and every time I exit the game I get a pretty hard lockup (where the Process Explorer barely is openable so I can close down the game).

Since I wanna lay the blame on someone, fuck the Bethesda testers with large cucumbers.
 

luxarific

Nork unification denier
The Skater said:
So I just ordered Fallout 3 for PS3 (new, $35 shipped on ebay ftw!), anything I should know before getting started? Suggested stats?

I'm assuming you know, but if not, the DLC is only for 360. (I agree that it sucks.)
 
BeeDog said:
Somehow, after purchasing The Pitt and BS, they've made my installation much more unstable. I had frequent crashes before (that were completely random), but now they're even more frequent, and every time I exit the game I get a pretty hard lockup (where the Process Explorer barely is openable so I can close down the game).
Yeah, mine crashes every time I quit too. I don't have any problems getting the task manager open though.

On a different note... I'm level 26 with no quests left. Anyone got any suggestions? I've discovered everywhere and done (to my knowledge) every single side quest.
 

Nikorasu

Member
Wow, just started playing again (have been waiting for all the dlc to come out to start my second character).

What happened to this game? It's a mess. Did the patches create more problems than they fixed? Now I'm having periodic crashes, awful performance with a ton of microstuttering (used to get perfectly smooth 60fps on my 4780x2), massive VATS lag and incorrect hit percentages. Good grief.
 
Psychotext said:
Yeah, mine crashes every time I quit too. I don't have any problems getting the task manager open though.

On a different note... I'm level 26 with no quests left. Anyone got any suggestions? I've discovered everywhere and done (to my knowledge) every single side quest.

From here on out, its grind, grind, grind. The raiders in the Bethseda Ruins respawn every three days.
 
Damn it! I felt like playing this game again yesterday and turned on the 360, I must have saved over my good character file with my evil character at some point by accident :( got to collect most of the bobbleheads again and do some of the extra quests I already had done for those achievements. Oh well more playability :lol
 

teh_pwn

"Saturated fat causes heart disease as much as Brawndo is what plants crave."
Psychotext said:
Yeah, mine crashes every time I quit too. I don't have any problems getting the task manager open though.

On a different note... I'm level 26 with no quests left. Anyone got any suggestions? I've discovered everywhere and done (to my knowledge) every single side quest.

I got from lvl 26 to 29 by grinding at Farifax ruins, *edit: Thomas Jefferson Memorial, Bethesda Ruins, and other raider and enclave hot spots. Also try wandering into large buildings that weren't part of a quest and kill everything, unlock/hack everything. Builds up experience pretty quick.

Turn up the difficulty to very hard to get a lot more experience. Although I cheat by reducing the difficulty if a Deathclaw, Albino (sp?) Scorpion, or Mutant Overlord pops up. These guys are rape on very hard. I think I'm missing a fundamental strategy to knock these guys out.

For level 29 I plan on murdering every citizen of every town to get the evil achievement, and then start over and grind...unless that good/neutral perk works at level 30.


Edit: It's too fun to be evil in this game. I just killed everyone in Tenpenny tower, and I guess I didn't do that quest with my current character so it popped and and said report to the ghouls. So I did and they thanked me, and as they turned their backs and started walking towards the tower, I mowed them down with some electric Chinese sword from the Alaska DLC.
 

Tobor

Member
I broke out the Chinese Stealth Armor today and went exploring, and I am godly. Not even the new enemies can see me as I shoot darts in their face. :lol
 

Tobor

Member
ICallItFutile said:
Gah I can't find the last two ignots I need. >.> I have 95 right now and know there are three unavailable until I hand what I have over.

There is a really good youtube video that shows all 100. I had to break down and cheat on the last few myself. There is one that I never would have found by myself.
 

Darklord

Banned
neoism said:
I've decided to get ES5 on PC, for Mods, but wtf that's alot of work, and I'm not sure I could handle losing my save file either!

Just make a copy of your save. If anything screws up, you can just reuse that.
 

Papercuts

fired zero bullets in the orphanage.
ICallItFutile said:
I just watched a video walkthrough and I'm STILL missing one. Don't ask how. :lol

I had trouble with that too, I rechecked every single area and was still missing two ingots.

I used this and was missing the 18th one. The good thing with the ingots is that they are all in groups, so if you're missing two you know to not check the bigger groups, or if there's just one missing there's only one ingot that is by itself, so it's that or you didn't grab one from a group.
 
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