Sorry man, the ER and Seath stuff yesterday distracted me, and I can't commit that much time to this during the work day. I'm hoping I can get it done tonight, but that will be at least 6 hours from now.
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Archer [Mafia] |OT| Wait, I Had Something For This
- Thread starter Ourobolus
- Start date
Sorry man, the ER and Seath stuff yesterday distracted me, and I can't commit that much time to this during the work day. I'm hoping I can get it done tonight, but that will be at least 6 hours from now.
Based on Ouro's tally, no one left the bandwagon; everyone that voted for Vis was still voting for them at the end of the day. I don't recall anyone leaving, either. I'd certainly be looking at people that left the Vis Train, but everyone who had a ticket rode it until the end.
EzekelRAGE
Member
Oh, thanks for checking. It's one of the things I was going to do later. Im surprised nobody left the bandwagon, actually.
So, remember like I said before - if someone left and then came back on, I didn't account for it at the time.
Because you are all a bunch of flip-flopping bastards.
I can do this going forward if you guys like though.
It definitely helps.
No problem. It was just a pain doing it all from my phone, so I'll make a note to do it this time.
Oh yeah. Sorry about that. I'll have to sift through that entire debacle.
That would be greatly appreciated, if you'd like to do that. Either way, thank you for everything you do for us as-is!
But yeah. As unfortunate as it is, no one backed down from Vis at any point, so there's no very suspicious behavior, at least in that regard. And out of curiosity, has anyone else caught onto those clues that Seath dropped? Because I could be wrong, or it could be a ruse, but I think I'm onto something.
TheGoddamn
Member
I feel you. I wrote my most of first post today on my phone, links and all, having to create the URL tags manually.
Just checking in. I'll be very busy for the next day or so-- work and school-- but I think we should move away from the Seath and Ezekiel issue for now (seriously, what the fuck, Seath?) and think about other viable lynch candidates. My first post from D2 was largely overlooked, so I'll post it again (sorry for casting heat on you, Zubz! I noticed it during my reread of the thread in preparation for D2)
Cabbeh, thanks for the reads. We may not always agree, but I do value your input.
Something that I think was unnoticed too in the roleclaiming insanity:
If he was mafia, couldn't he have just asked privately?
And Palmer, no one seems to have left the Vis train. It was just a concentrated pileon that happened way, way too fast for my liking.
Fake edit: this seems to have already been addressed.
PS. It kinda sucks that the weekend is night phase, haha. Might solve a lot of our inactive problems, or increase them further?
I'm really quite afraid to jump back in there, but I know I'll have to
I was sleeping. I posted this morning in the brief window after I woke up and before I went to work. I'm back now though.So, I was just looking at the players list and I notice that the following players have not really contributed as much as I'd like them to:
- MikeHawk
- Razmos
- QuantumBro
I noticed that they all had posted on D2 but they didn't leave a lot of insights with their comments... in fact, funnily they all had posted exactly TWO posts since D2 began...XD
What's up guys! Let's talk more!
The "You need to post more!" line is getting old really fast, we can't all be here 24/7 and we don't always have something to contribute if someone else has already said something.
Otherwise I'd just be posting saying "I agree with you!" and people would accuse of me of bandwagoning and just parroting what other people say. And if I tried to post when having nothing to contribute people would call what i'm saying "fluff".
I get that people not posting can look suspicious but come on now. Get suspicious if they don't post for a day or two, not after a few hours.
With that out of the way, I find it hard to find Seath suspicious, his roleclaim was a bit silly but I don't think it means much either way.
Ezekiel.. I dunno, how do we know he was targeted at all? He could have seen that nobody died and used it an opportunity to give himself a cover. I suppose KGB would know who they targeted but it would be foolish to challenge what Ezekiel claimed.
So either:
A) Ezekiel is telling the truth and was targeted
B) Ezekiel wasn't targeted and is lying for protection
C) Ezekiel wasn't targeted and is lying to attempt to draw out the KGB
He could have, I don't know when its pressure time and there's a potential tie going on, do you run around asking someone else what to do or take a stand?
Just found the behaviour strange.
Come on, man. This is the second time you've really put yourself on the defensive. The truth is you're sitting at 23 posts, and a number of them offer little of your own insight.
You're not even being singled out, Quantumbro has been mentioned numerous times for being present but not particularly active, and he's sitting at a post count of 39. Mazre also at 41, but you're talking here as if we're really going for you alone. This is the stuff that makes me suspicious of you.
You talk about Ezekel but you don't really commit to an opinion on him yourself, you just offer a bunch of potential outcomes, I don't feel you're being completely up front with us. I don't consider agreeing with someone else to be fluff, even if you do you can always add a sentence or just think out loud. It shows me you're town, because playing town is about being open and inquisitive. These sort of posts are not really committing what you think, it feels like you're posting to appear normal to others, not actually trying to weed out the scum.
Redone Day 1 Results!
Visualante2 (9)
squidyj
Seath
QuantumBro
QuantumBro
YesNOnoNOYes
Palmer_v1
Hobohodo
cabbeh
roytheone
Haly
GreatLord Tiger (5)
Burbeting
Hobohodo
Septimus Prime
Zubz
Zubz
Visualante2
Palmer_v1
TheGoddamn
El Topo
cooljeanius (2)
EzekelRAGE
cabbeh
Mike_Hawk689
QuantumBro
Haly
El Topo
squidyj (2)
Mazre
Arkos
cooljeanius
Zubz
Zubz
EzekelRAGE (1)
cabbeh
Haly
Seath
cooljeanius
Septimus Prime (1)
GreatLord Tiger
YesNOnoNOYes
Zubz (1)
Mazre
Burbeting (1)
Razmos
Mazre (1)
Palmer_v1
YesNOnoNOYes
Enker
cabbeh
TheGoddamn
roytheone (0)
Haly
El Topo
cabbeh (0)
Squidyj
The Goddamn (0)
Palmer_v1
Razmos (0)
Squidyj
Mike_Hawk689 (0)
Roytheone
Cabbeh
Palmer_v1
Haly
El Topo (0)
Haly
Haly (0)
Seath
Seath (0)
Hobohodo
roytheone
Enker (0)
cabbeh
squidyj
QuantumBro (0)
cooljeanius
Visualante2 (9)
squidyj
Seath
QuantumBro
YesNOnoNOYes
Palmer_v1
Hobohodo
cabbeh
roytheone
Haly
GreatLord Tiger (5)
Burbeting
Septimus Prime
Visualante2
TheGoddamn
El Topo
cooljeanius (2)
EzekelRAGE
Mike_Hawk689
squidyj (2)
Arkos
Zubz
EzekelRAGE (1)
cooljeanius
Septimus Prime (1)
GreatLord Tiger
Zubz (1)
Mazre
Burbeting (1)
Razmos
Mazre (1)
Enker
roytheone (0)
cabbeh (0)
The Goddamn (0)
Razmos (0)
Mike_Hawk689 (0)
El Topo (0)
Haly (0)
Seath (0)
Enker (0)
QuantumBro (0)
Arkos
Nose how to spell and rede to
Just a tip, I'm not done catching up on the thread, but googling some of the generic PRs that people mention in here has helped me understand what they're talking about and what some of the possibilities may be. For people suspicious of Ezekel's claimed role being too powerful, there is a "Bulletproof" role that behaves sort of like he said. Not saying his claim isn't suspicious, but it seems to have a basis in "mafia" (ie roles like that do exist). I'm just seeing a lot of "suspiciously OP" posts as I go back through.
I find this unlikely. His post was a mere 35 minutes after the announcement that nobody had died. I don't think KGB members get an instant response about the result of their assassination attempt, so there was no way for Ezekel to know beforehand this would be a no kill night. So he would have created that post in a ridiculously short amount of time if it indeed was trying to use the NK night as a cover.
I saw this as well, but it seemed like it's pretty rare that its unlimited(*), it seemed the most common versions have a number of bulletproof attempts before ultimately being able to be killed.
* kinda sorta unlimited
So...why is no one calling out Palmer and Mazre for being super quick to volunteer (again)? Why is there no focus on former mission members and how they might be Honeypot, given that Ezzi survived? If anything we should attempt to combine the various reasons (posts, posting patterns, voting patterns, mission member status) to come up with suspects.
That said, pretty sure Seath is at least honest about his alignment, even if I'm not convinced he is telling the truth about his abilities. I didn't trust Ezzi at first, but going over his posts and thinking about it have me believe he is honest.
That said, pretty sure Seath is at least honest about his alignment, even if I'm not convinced he is telling the truth about his abilities. I didn't trust Ezzi at first, but going over his posts and thinking about it have me believe he is honest.
Just......keep on reading before judging about Seath and his role claim. Believe me.
I'm convinced of his alignment. His actual power and goal? Not so much.
I've ignored calling them out on it because it's going to get back into the volunteering debate, and as today has shown its pointless. The four who want in will get in. A good point is raised that honeypot could have been on the mission which meant they couldn't kill, but I feel it's more likely that honeypot would be saved till they are more certain they are getting Archer. Still it is a line of enquiry that could be worth a look.
As stated I struggle to judge Palmer, but I'm leaning toward town, his quick volunteer is annoying because self-preservation isn't really what being town is, but he's already been clear about what happened during the mission, giving decent feedback. Did any of the others do that?
Mazre is definitely suspect. I looked at his posts he doesn't actually say anything about the mission, just some flavour chat and the fact that he didn't die because he was on it. What good is that to us?
I've specifically asked people to discuss whether some of us should leave the mission in favor of others.
Regardless, assuming Honeypot was on the mission because of any of the ER stuff is a fallacy. If you need one specific person to kill one specific target, it makes no sense to use them before you've confirmed who that target is. You risk losing them early. All we know is that they allegedly exist, and they are not the person who allegedly targeted ER.
I wouldn't jump on them for not posting about the mission. There's sadly just not a lot to say and I kinda covered it already.
I'm also willing to unvolunteer. I didn't really intend to stay on this one, but wanted to have a choice about it. Unfortunately, two people I distrust are already on this one, so I'm not sure if backing down in favor of YesNo is advantageous or not.
It's worth his death if it means we find a Mafia. I do sort of like this idea though of sending a smaller team. I'm willing to unvolunteer if we can get 1 more to do the same, as well as all of the current backups.
Arkos
Nose how to spell and rede to
Okay this is just a question about mafia in general, how would you risk losing the Honeypot early (or, in other words, why would the mafia not use Honeypot for every kill they wanted to make)? I feel like there's some common knowledge I'm missing.
Also, I would like to know how Seath feels about Ezekel's claim.
I think two persons, Ezekel and lets call him person X, is the sweet spot. The kgb would have an incredibly hard time to get honeypot as person X, which would mean they have to be very open and upfront in their argumentation for who person X will be. And even if person X becomes honeypod, killing Ezekel will be an instant death sentence for honeypod, not a great trade. There is probably a mafia member with an one time ability to kill someone on a mission while they aren't on it, but that will probably not work on Ezekel. The more I think about it, the more I am in favor of only sending two persons.
There are roles that can watch for activity. One is literally called a Watcher, and if they target a player, they get to see every other player who targets that player that night, sometimes including the specific commands they used. A Tracker does it differently. They pick a target and get a report if the person takes any Night actions. Sometimes they learn what action or who it targeted. Those are just the COMMON roles.
So every time Honeypot does something, they risk getting caught. That's why I wouldn't use the Honeypot role until I knew who Archer was. Even then, if he hasn't been a threat of any kind, I might just let him live. Not sure people realize it, but even if they can't NK him, they still win if they ever outnumber the Town.
No tracker is going to come out early. Every night that mafia doesn't kill gives us and our power roles more time to catch them.
Okay, so I leave this game unattended for 15 hours or so because sleep and busy day, and when come back whole lot has happened . Here I was thinking Ezekiels role claim was a big change for just today.
I'm trying to get back on track about things by looking at stuff that has happened today.
Still on EzekielRAGE:
His role claim does make more sense now that back then when he actually did make the claim, after hearing that honeypot could be part of the mafia, and not just some neutral party. Still, even now his role is really really powerful, especially if honeypot dies, since he would turn basically invicible from that point onwards, if I got that right. What makes me believe that this claim is legit is that he said he is Archer, who I presume has a power role in this game, since he is the main character of the show. So if Ezekiel wanted to claim a role as a KGB or a neutral party, he wouldn't have chosen Archer... if his real role isn't to bait the real Archer out and kill him. But right now I can see myself believe he could be the real deal.
Well all the four volunteers came so quickly in the beginning, that I can't believe that the honeypot could have seen Ezekiels post for volunteer, and then volunteer quickly afterwards, unless she was going to wait and see if Ezekiel volunteered, so that s/he could unvolunteer out of the mission to be with the main group in order to attack Ezekiel.
Well, it might be that if honeypot tries to kill someone who isn't Archer, it might me disadvantageous to her. It's possible, for sure.
Regarding Seath:
Okay so... what on earth happened here while I was asleep? First Seath makes a role claim at neutral party, then people jumped on to vote him quickly, then he said "keikaku doori just as planned" and said it was all his plan to get Squidjy act like Seath wanted. I hope I understood this part, because reading these posts was really confusing.
Okay firstly, I don't really understand what Seath's motivations behind this stunt was. He says it was to make us talk and to see our reactions but... really? That is not really a good enough reason to do this stunt to be honest, especially if you really are town. You might have been voted out right after your claim, and it was actually pretty close too, 8 out of 11 votes were already put on you. If we had lynched you, and you had been town, you had been sabotaging town's game in general, not just your own, since town would have basically lost a complete day.
Okay so I see as Seath's actions earlier as anti-town even if it might have a noble purpouse in general. So then I have to consider, what if he is not town, what could his reasons be then? I have to say that I have nothing to give on this question, really. I can't see any reason for KGB to do something like this, purpousedly put one of their list to danger because.... reasons, and neutral side claim would be pretty weird too. Well there is the possibility that he really IS Conward Stein, and that he backed out when he saw that "oh shit I'm going to die".
Anyway, in general Seath, you make me really confused. If you are town, then taking risk like was not really worth it in my eyes if we would have lost a day because of your stunt.
Other stuff:
So Arkos and Cabbeh might be town because of Ourobolos misslip? Well it will give some towny-points for these two in my eyes then, although I'm not ready to completely rule them out of being mafia either, of course.
. Here I was thinking Ezekiels role claim was a big change for just today.I'm trying to get back on track about things by looking at stuff that has happened today.
Still on EzekielRAGE:
His role claim does make more sense now that back then when he actually did make the claim, after hearing that honeypot could be part of the mafia, and not just some neutral party. Still, even now his role is really really powerful, especially if honeypot dies, since he would turn basically invicible from that point onwards, if I got that right. What makes me believe that this claim is legit is that he said he is Archer, who I presume has a power role in this game, since he is the main character of the show. So if Ezekiel wanted to claim a role as a KGB or a neutral party, he wouldn't have chosen Archer... if his real role isn't to bait the real Archer out and kill him. But right now I can see myself believe he could be the real deal.
Well all the four volunteers came so quickly in the beginning, that I can't believe that the honeypot could have seen Ezekiels post for volunteer, and then volunteer quickly afterwards, unless she was going to wait and see if Ezekiel volunteered, so that s/he could unvolunteer out of the mission to be with the main group in order to attack Ezekiel.
Well, it might be that if honeypot tries to kill someone who isn't Archer, it might me disadvantageous to her. It's possible, for sure.
Regarding Seath:
Okay so... what on earth happened here while I was asleep? First Seath makes a role claim at neutral party, then people jumped on to vote him quickly, then he said "keikaku doori just as planned" and said it was all his plan to get Squidjy act like Seath wanted. I hope I understood this part, because reading these posts was really confusing.
Okay firstly, I don't really understand what Seath's motivations behind this stunt was. He says it was to make us talk and to see our reactions but... really? That is not really a good enough reason to do this stunt to be honest, especially if you really are town. You might have been voted out right after your claim, and it was actually pretty close too, 8 out of 11 votes were already put on you. If we had lynched you, and you had been town, you had been sabotaging town's game in general, not just your own, since town would have basically lost a complete day.
Okay so I see as Seath's actions earlier as anti-town even if it might have a noble purpouse in general. So then I have to consider, what if he is not town, what could his reasons be then? I have to say that I have nothing to give on this question, really. I can't see any reason for KGB to do something like this, purpousedly put one of their list to danger because.... reasons, and neutral side claim would be pretty weird too. Well there is the possibility that he really IS Conward Stein, and that he backed out when he saw that "oh shit I'm going to die".
Anyway, in general Seath, you make me really confused. If you are town, then taking risk like was not really worth it in my eyes if we would have lost a day because of your stunt.
Other stuff:
So Arkos and Cabbeh might be town because of Ourobolos misslip? Well it will give some towny-points for these two in my eyes then, although I'm not ready to completely rule them out of being mafia either, of course.
Do we really have a reason to believe that EzekelRage is lying about his role? If anything, his role claim this early makes sense. If he was lying, anyone else could catch him in the act, because he wouldn't be the real Sterling Archer and as Razmos pointed out, doing it for protection.
The thing I'm confused about is honeypot? So Honeypot is KGB then doesn't it make sense for the KGB to carry out their night lynches through honeypot? Don't they already know who Sterling Archer is, henceforth it's easy for honeypot to target Ezekel?
This is what has me confused. Last, I agree with topo:
We could weed out players as suspects for honeypot. Yet I'm not letting Squidyj off the hook. He is still my number 1 suspect.
The thing I'm confused about is honeypot? So Honeypot is KGB then doesn't it make sense for the KGB to carry out their night lynches through honeypot? Don't they already know who Sterling Archer is, henceforth it's easy for honeypot to target Ezekel?
This is what has me confused. Last, I agree with topo:
We could weed out players as suspects for honeypot. Yet I'm not letting Squidyj off the hook. He is still my number 1 suspect.
I seriously doubt the Mafia started the game knowing who archer is.
They now know who archer is, because they targeted Ezekel with one of their normal guys, but it failed, and with no more doctor in our ranks the logical conclusion for the KGB will be: Ezekel is archer. why else would it fail? So now they will want to use honeypot on Ezekel. Why they didn't use honeypot for the first night assassination attempt on Ezekel? Thats a little suspect to me too, but it could be that they were afraid that honeypot would be spotted by one of our power roles, and thus decided to take no risks with honeypot.
So now Archer is at risk from the KGB via Honeypot. I say we do as Topo suggested.
EzekelRAGE
Member
I could be screwed if the HP is neutral and I am her only win condition. It's an angle I didn't think of.
So actually, I had a question to ask from Palmer, that I was going to ask this ingame-morning, but then Ezekiel happened and the topic changed to different stuff so I didn't have time to really get back to it until now.
It's about the yesterday, where he tells us multiple times, that he is just a normal drone, and not a power role or anything else. I mentioned this yesterday shortly, but I wanted to go into bit more detail. Examples of the phenomena I'm describing:
So the question I have is why did you remind us of this fact so many times? In my eyes it's an anti-town move to make in general. If you really are town, telling everyone out loud you are a drone will give mafia and one person shorter list of who to target if they want to kill power roles during night.
At the same time, if you are mafia, you have all the reasons to tell everyone this, since people seem to be expecting that mafia could kill you. If you make this claim as mafia, you can use it as a reason later on why mafia hasn't targeted you at all at nights.
What I'm trying to say here is that making these claims has no advantage to the town as whole, so it makes me bit more concerned about you more. So yeah Palmer, why wouldn't I suspect you because of these postings?
It's about the yesterday, where he tells us multiple times, that he is just a normal drone, and not a power role or anything else. I mentioned this yesterday shortly, but I wanted to go into bit more detail. Examples of the phenomena I'm describing:
So the question I have is why did you remind us of this fact so many times? In my eyes it's an anti-town move to make in general. If you really are town, telling everyone out loud you are a drone will give mafia and one person shorter list of who to target if they want to kill power roles during night.
At the same time, if you are mafia, you have all the reasons to tell everyone this, since people seem to be expecting that mafia could kill you. If you make this claim as mafia, you can use it as a reason later on why mafia hasn't targeted you at all at nights.
What I'm trying to say here is that making these claims has no advantage to the town as whole, so it makes me bit more concerned about you more. So yeah Palmer, why wouldn't I suspect you because of these postings?
Alright, can someone explain these third party win conditions to me:
- if a third party achieves his/her win conditions, does that automatically end the game with that person as the winner, or does he/she win in addition to the normal winning team?
- Does the third party role still have to survive until the end, or can he/she just withdraw from the game completely after achieving the win condition?
If HP is neutral party, it would make it really hard for her to find you, wouldn't it? If she is mafia, there is a better chance mafia could find you, and she would know. Add to the fact that you turn invicible if HP dies.
Aka. if HP is neutral, your role would become much more op than if she is part of mafia, so if I think about it balance-wise, it would make much more sense for hp to be part of mafia.
Mike_Hawk689
Member
Okay, so Arkos and Cabbeh are townies due to their hints in early posts. But then there's this.
Are you saying that you have the ability to kill people during missions?
Are you saying that you have the ability to kill people during missions?
Mike_Hawk689
Member
Can you explain why you ended up voting for Vis?
Mike_Hawk689
Member
If I remember correctly, from the SW game, someone (forgot who) got to their win condition. They won, but the game continued and they were taken out of the game.
Arkos
Nose how to spell and rede to
Haha I'm kind of surprised it took so long for someone to mention this, so I'm going to jump on it quickly. No. I have no abilities and I am a normal drone.
That post was made out of sheer stupidity and not understanding how the game works and my role in it. At the time I was under the impression that, despite being normal town, I may still want to deceive people about this fact. Obviously, the exact opposite of that is true, something I did not grasp at the time.
You can also look at my posts in the main mafia thread, where I am very eager to kill people. At the time I did not grasp that for the majority of players "killing people" is not the focus of the game.
It was stupid, a throwaway comment that I regretted it once I understood what was going on and what I actually wanted to be doing as a normal townie, and I was glad nobody had brought it up. Don't waste your time trying to read anything into this. I wish I had a special role or got to be a sneaky scumbag, but I'm not. I'm also not going to try any advanced strats involving misrepresenting roles like Seath. I'm just trying to get the hang of the game and be a good townie now that I've started to figure out how the game works.