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KDR_11k · Sep 22, 2016

Also 22 more injured.

Total firearm uses aimed at people were 40 (so they missed 8?), 34 times as self-defense, 4 to prevent a crime and 2 to stop an escape. Another 48 times saw warning shots.

Those are the official stats. They attribute it to successful deescalation strategies.

http://www.tagesschau.de/inland/polizei-159.html

The country has a population of roughly 80 million and 14.9% of the population are immigrants (roughly on par with the US which has 14.3%).

What do police stats look like in your country, GAF?

Baron Doggystyle von Woof · Sep 22, 2016

3 people were killed in the Netherlands by the police. Population of almost 17 million.

11% of the population are immigrants. Don't know what that has to do with anything but yeah.

Jacobi · Sep 22, 2016

Baron Doggystyle von Woof said:
3 people were killed in the Netherlands by the police. Population of almost 17 million.

11% of the population are immigrants. Don't know what that has to do with anything but yeah.

Because the population is so homogenous, it can't be compared. Never mind 50% of newborns in Berlin have migration background

RJT · Sep 22, 2016

Portugal (population: 10 million): in 2014, there were no deaths caused by police shootings. Since 1996, there were 58 people killed by police, only 19 of which were considered justified.

Source (in portuguese, obviously)

CS_Dan · Sep 22, 2016

http://www.inquest.org.uk/statistics/fatal-police-shootings
Population ~56 million.

Pretty proud of our police's approach to firearms tbh.

dabig2 · Sep 22, 2016

Lol @ country. How about I just stick with the state.

Baltimore Sun: The American Civil Liberties Union reported Wednesday that 109 people died after encounters with police in Maryland between 2010 and 2014

Nearly 70 percent of those who died during the encounters were black, and more than 40 percent of the people were unarmed, the ACLU of Maryland reported. The advocacy group found that blacks, who make up less than a third of the state population, were five times more likely to die from interactions with police than whites.

The report comes amid national discussion of police tactics following the high-profile deaths last year of several unarmed black males at the hands of police officers.

So that comes out to around 22 people a year. Maryland had just under 6 million people living in it as of 2014.

Baron Doggystyle von Woof · Sep 22, 2016

Jacobi said:
Because the population is so homogenous, it can't be compared. Never mind 50% of newborns in Berlin have migration background

You are right, police killings has nothing to do with firearms culture but immigration.

ClosingADoor · Sep 22, 2016

Jacobi said:
Because the population is so homogenous, it can't be compared. Never mind 50% of newborns in Berlin have migration background

11% and 15% is not that big of a difference. You are also throwing in Berlin there with some stats, so then you need to compare it to Amsterdam or Rotterdam, instead of a country.

I don't really get what the immigration statistics have to do with police shootings. Or do you think police officers in Europe are more likely to shoot immigrants then other people?

gruenel · Sep 22, 2016

For anyone interested. The US was at 1146 kills in 2015 (Source).

If you adjust for population that's roughly 27 times more than Germany.

Krammy · Sep 22, 2016

Canada here. From an incomplete list taken off of Wikipedia (other sources also didn't give exact numbers, but had similar averages).

9 in 2013, with a population of 35,155,500.
21 in 2014, with a population of 35,540,400
22 in 2015, with a population of 35,749,600.

I don't like the steady rise, but I guess it's inevitable.

EDIT: I'd love if someone more detective-like than I am could find better sources and accurate numbers. This stuff interests me quite a bit.

holygeesus · Sep 22, 2016

Who would have thought that the country with the most guns would have the most gun killings?

Jacobi · Sep 22, 2016

ClosingADoor said:
11% and 15% is not that big of a difference. You are also throwing in Berlin there with some stats, so then you need to compare it to Amsterdam or Rotterdam, instead of a country.

I don't really get what the immigration statistics have to do with police shootings. Or do you think police officers in Europe are more likely to shoot immigrants then other people?

Just repeated that argument sarcastically

gruenel said:
For anyone interested. The US was at 1146 kills in 2015 (Source).

If you adjust for population that's roughly 2700% more than Germany.

27 times sounds better

Faustek · Sep 22, 2016

How many interventions is this spread out on? Swedish Police had around 1.3 million interventions per year since 20 years back and about 1 death each year since 1996. Some years zero and the highest was 4 deaths. 1999 and 2013.

source

gruenel · Sep 22, 2016

Jacobi said:
27 times sounds better

You're right, I changed it...

kavanf1 · Sep 22, 2016

Would be good to see some per capita charts aligning various countries. The US seems like it would have stats more in line with a third world country than a leading developed nation, but that's just me speculating based on how prevalent police killings seem to be there.

Bleepey · Sep 22, 2016

CS_Dan said:
http://www.inquest.org.uk/statistics/fatal-police-shootings
Population ~56 million.

Pretty proud of our police's approach to firearms tbh.

This is why I felt UK BLM cheapened the BLM movement. Meanwhile in the US It's like 1100 people in the US annually.

Jaeyden · Sep 22, 2016

Pretty sure the police shot and killed nobody in 2013 in the UK.

Edit :Yup, and there it is in a graph right above me

Chuckie · Sep 22, 2016

holygeesus said:
Who would have thought that the country with the most guns would have the most gun killings?

This is about police killings though.

mnz · Sep 22, 2016

holygeesus said:
Who would have thought that the country with the most guns would have the most gun killings?

Germany has a lot of guns, too. Certainly not like the US, of course.

RJT · Sep 22, 2016

Tence said:
This is about police killings though.

It's still relevant (of course, it's not the whole story, but it is relevant). Portuguese criminals use guns at a much lesser rate than Americans, so the police has less reasons to escalate.

jorma · Sep 22, 2016

Sweden:

2010:0
2011:1
2012:0
2103:4
2014:3
2015:2

2002-2012: 7 in total, so it's a rather dramatic increase in later years.The 4 people killed in 2013 is the highest number recorded apparantly.

Population is 10 million - and of those16% are immigrants. I can see why the stat would matter in the discussion since Sweden is often "accused" of having such a homogenous population so it cannot be compared and stuff.

Also notable: 31 guns per 100 citizens.

Chuckie · Sep 22, 2016

RJT said:
It's still relevant (of course, it's not the whole story, but it is relevant). Portuguese criminals use guns at a much lesser rate than Americans, so the police has less reasons to escalate.

Of course it is relevant and surely a factor. However considering the huge amount of people that were unarmed or not a real threat to the police that are killed in the US there seems to be another issue going on here.

Hyun Sai · Sep 22, 2016

I THINK we got 6 killed by the police in 2015 and 2 so far in 2016 in France.

Around 66 millions living in France and 9% immigrants (the latter stat from 2014).

Around 30 guns for 100 citizens.

Easy_D · Sep 22, 2016

In Sweden we've had a rising trend of police shooting and killing. This year they've killed 3 people, a 33% increase from last year, during which only 2 were shot to death. So our police force is all "Yo we want alternatives, please give us tasers so we can get away with less people dead". So that's pretty positive I guess. We have a population of around 10 million.

Edit: Source for this is public service, also matches up with official information on the homepage for the police.

KonradLaw · Sep 22, 2016

Baron Doggystyle von Woof said:
3 people were killed in the Netherlands by the police. Population of almost 17 million.

11% of the population are immigrants. Don't know what that has to do with anything but yeah.

Generally the more homogenous the society is the lower the crime.

RocknRola · Sep 22, 2016

RJT said:
Portugal (population: 10 million): in 2014, there were no deaths caused by police shootings. Since 1996, there were 58 people killed by police, only 19 of which were considered justified.

Source (in portuguese, obviously)

We are super chill I guess. Would be nice if these sort of the sort became the norm everywhere.

Pankratous · Sep 22, 2016

RJT said:
It's still relevant (of course, it's not the whole story, but it is relevant). Portuguese criminals use guns at a much lesser rate than Americans, so the police has less reasons to escalate.

Let's be real here.

American Police have a huge issue with criminals with guns. But they also have a huge problem where they approach every situation with a gun in hand. So many situations, even just the ones posted on GAF, that could easily be de-escalated or just handled without the police resorting to guns.

Probably at least half of police killings in USA are probably preventable if they did their job properly.

Vigilant Walrus · Sep 22, 2016

I couldn't find 2015 stats for Denmark, but I came across a interesting piece by a sociologist that brought up some interesting points in comparing cops shootings in US vs Europe; http://theconversation.com/why-do-american-cops-kill-so-many-compared-to-european-cops-49696

By contrast, national standards in most European countries conform to the European Convention on Human Rights ( http://www.coe.int/t/dghl/cooperati...ation/europeanconventionhandbookforpolice.pdf ), which impels its 47 signatories to permit only deadly force that is absolutely necessary to achieve a lawful purpose. Killings excused under Americas reasonable belief standards often violate Europes absolute necessity standards.

For example, the unfounded fear of Darren Wilson the former Ferguson cop who fatally shot Michael Brown that Brown was armed would not have likely absolved him in Europe. Nor would officers fears of the screwdriver that a mentally ill Dallas man Jason Harrison refused to drop.

In Europe, killing is considered unnecessary if alternatives exist. For example, national guidelines in Spain would have prescribed that Wilson incrementally pursue verbal warnings, warning shots, and shots at nonvital parts of the body before resorting to deadly force. Six shots would likely be deemed disproportionate to the threat that Brown, unarmed and wounded, allegedly posed.

In the US, only eight states require verbal warnings (when possible), while warning and leg shots are typically prohibited. In stark contrast, Finland and Norway require that police obtain permission from a superior officer, whenever possible, before shooting anyone.

Not only do centralized standards in Europe make it easier to restrict police behavior, but centralized training centers efficiently teach police officers how to avoid using deadly weapons.

The Netherlands, Norway and Finland, for example, require police to attend a national academy a college for cops for three years. In Norway, over 5,000 applicants recently competed for the 700 annual spots.

Three years affords police ample time to learn to better understand, communicate with and calm distraught individuals. By contrast, in 2006, US police academies provided an average of 19 weeks of classroom instruction.

Such massive disparities defy a simple explanation, but Americas gun culture is clearly an important factor. Unlike European nations, most states make it easy for adults to purchase handguns for self-defense and to keep them handy at nearly all times.

Acquiring guns illegally in the US is not much harder. About 57% of this years deadly force victims to date were allegedly armed with actual, toy or replica guns. American police are primed to expect guns. The specter of gun violence may make them prone to misidentifying or magnifying threats like cellphones and screwdrivers. It may make American policing more dangerous and combat-oriented. It also fosters police cultures that emphasize bravery and aggression.

But racism alone cant explain why non-Latino white Americans are 26 times more likely to die by police gunfire than Germans. And racism alone doesnt explain why states like Montana, West Virginia and Wyoming where both perpetrators and victims of deadly force are almost always white exhibit relatively high rates of police lethality.

More than a quarter of deadly force victims were killed in towns with fewer than 25,000 people despite the fact that only 17% of the US population lives in such towns.

By contrast, as a rule, towns and cities in Europe do not finance their own police forces. The municipal police that do exist are generally unarmed and lack arrest authority.

As a result, the only armed police forces that citizens routinely encounter in Europe are provincial (the counterpart to state police in the US), regional (Swiss cantons) or national.

Whats more, centralized policing makes it possible to train and judge all armed officers according to the same use-of-force guidelines. It also facilitates the rapid translation of insights about deadly force prevention into enforceable national mandates.

In the US, the only truly national deadly force behavioral mandates are set by the Supreme Court, which in 1989 deemed it constitutionally permissible for police to use deadly force when they reasonably perceive imminent and grave harm. State laws regulating deadly force in the 38 states where they exist are almost always as permissive as Supreme Court precedent allows, or more so.

Phyranion · Sep 22, 2016

Norway:
2002: 0
2003: 0
2004: 0
2005: 1
2006: 1
2007: 0
2008: 0
2009: 0
2010: 0
2011: 0
2012: 0
2013: 0
2014: 0
2015: 1

That's pretty good, in my opinion.

Farewell · Sep 22, 2016

Phyranion said:
Norway:
2002: 0
2003: 0
2004: 0
2005: 1
2006: 1
2007: 0
2008: 0
2009: 0
2010: 0
2011: 0
2012: 0
2013: 0
2014: 0
2015: 1

That's pretty good, in my opinion.

Wow! That's really good.

RocknRola · Sep 22, 2016

Pankratous said:
Let's be real here.

American Police have a huge issue with criminals with guns. But they also have a huge problem where they approach every situation with a gun in hand. So many situations, even just the ones posted on GAF, that could easily be de-escalated or just handled without the police resorting to guns.

Probably at least half of police killings in USA are probably preventable if they did their job properly.

This is true also. I don't think I've ever seen a cop here (Portugal) reaching for their gun. In front of me at least. They will always approach you unarmed and try to talk to you first and foremost. If that fails and they need to use something to contain a violent situation (that doesn't involve guns on the criminal side) they usually go for the baton, not the gun. That I have witnessed a couple of times, unfortunately.

There is also the issue of different kinds of cops and not all of them having guns too, but that I suppose has more to due with how our police force is structured rather anything else.

Keasar · Sep 22, 2016

Like others have mentioned. Here in Sweden there have been 3 people dead by police this year and people are already calling for investigations.

It's also funny considering that Sweden is one of the highest gun owning countries in Europe, yet our police are not jumpy as fuck as they are in the US where they basically assume everyone is armed (and not without reason).

PastorOfMuppets · Sep 22, 2016

Phyranion said:
Norway:
2002: 0
2003: 0
2004: 0
2005: 1
2006: 1
2007: 0
2008: 0
2009: 0
2010: 0
2011: 0
2012: 0
2013: 0
2014: 0
2015: 1

That's pretty good, in my opinion.

Yeah but the increase from 2014 to 2015 is infinity percent.

RJT · Sep 22, 2016

Pankratous said:
Let's be real here.

American Police have a huge issue with criminals with guns. But they also have a huge problem where they approach every situation with a gun in hand. So many situations, even just the ones posted on GAF, that could easily be de-escalated or just handled without the police resorting to guns.

Probably at least half of police killings in USA are probably preventable if they did their job properly.

I have no doubt about that. Even with so few police shooting in Portugal, two thirds of the deaths are still considered unjustified.

Easy_D · Sep 22, 2016

Keasar said:
Like others have mentioned. Here in Sweden there have been 3 people dead by police this year and people are already calling for investigations.

It's also funny considering that Sweden is one of the highest gun owning countries in Europe, yet our police are not jumpy as fuck as they are in the US where they basically assume everyone is armed (and not without reason).

Well, most of those are hunting rifles, no? And most incidents involving those are suicides or that murder suicide a few years back

Timedog · Sep 22, 2016

Impossible. It could never work here. These blacks are basically Supermen.

Vex_ · Sep 22, 2016

Phyranion said:
Norway:
2002: 0
2003: 0
2004: 0
2005: 1
2006: 1
2007: 0
2008: 0
2009: 0
2010: 0
2011: 0
2012: 0
2013: 0
2014: 0
2015: 1

That's pretty good, in my opinion.

Not really. Think about it like this:

You've got 3 kills total. That is half of all the letters it takes to spell out "Norway". That's 50%.

Not so happy anymore are you?

oti · Sep 22, 2016

That's too many for my liking tbh. Shame.

Dryk · Sep 22, 2016

Australian statistics (I don't think the last few years have been released yet)

EDIT: The report it's from is really detailed btw

Tacitus_ · Sep 22, 2016

Five deaths in the last fifteen years. One was an accidental discharge and one died after being tazed but it was inconclusive whether that caused the death. So three deaths in an intentional shooting.
Oh and one of them got the officer charged with excessive force because he shot the man three times - the last one made it excessive.

Finland, population 5M.

Oh and they use warning shots and try to go for limbs whenever possible.

Slayer-33 · Sep 22, 2016

If you put up America's chart it'd lead up to the op's post from down here.

Hoo-doo · Sep 22, 2016

US police rookies should have mandatory two-year internships in various european nations.
Just so they can get accustomed with approaching a suspect wiith a civil, de-escalating demeanor and not constant fear.

Also, restrict the sale and carry of handguns to the people willing follow a mandatory course on gun safety and a mental health / criminal background check.

StayDead · Sep 22, 2016

Tence said:
This is about police killings though.

Is there a correlation though? How is the police killing figures in places with mandatory military service where you keep the gun afterwards for example?

Condom · Sep 22, 2016

America can't have anything nice because it isn't homogeneous. Or well, that is what people keep telling me.

'Welfare state? Nah not homogeneous'

'Less police killings? Nah not homogeneous'

'Universal healthcare? Nah not homogeneous'

Great excuse.

Keasar · Sep 22, 2016

Easy_D said:
Well, most of those are hunting rifles, no? And most incidents involving those are suicides or that murder suicide a few years back

It's true.

BladeoftheImmortal · Sep 22, 2016

I don't even want to see aMERICA'S STATS

Hoo-doo · Sep 22, 2016

BladeoftheImmortal said:
I don't even want to see aMERICA'S STATS

I do.

Edit:

Wait wait, what? In the US, you can become a full blown police officer in 4 months? That's in-fucking-sane.
No wonder these guys are incompetent. Over here it's three years minimum with strict selection procedures.

*Splinter · Sep 22, 2016

Three years affords police ample time to learn to better understand, communicate with and calm distraught individuals. By contrast, in 2006, US police academies provided an average of 19 weeks of classroom instruction.

Jeez, I knew the US had a problem with training but 19 weeks? 4 months to become a police officer? That's insane.

holygeesus said:
Who would have thought that the country with the most guns would have the most gun killings?

I think that's kind of the point...

Corto · Sep 22, 2016

Portugal had the first killed since 2014 by a police agent this last august and it's being investigated and it could be due to an accidental firing of the gun. 10.5 million population.

Chuckie · Sep 22, 2016

*Splinter said:
Jeez, I knew the US had a problem with training but 19 weeks? 4 months to become a police officer? That's insane.

So Police Academy was a documentary, not a comedy?

The more you know!

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