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[ReadingRambo]

Correct, they don't give a damn about Brazil, wich is sad, but they do give a damn about the US.

And it's a Fact that the world see's the way the US handles this as bad. I mean, when even North Korea critizises you, you've gotta stop and think about what you are doing.

Well in the scenario I was presented with, the US's influence was supposed to be diminished. So I picked a country with lower influence and even more police brutality. We do stop and think about it. Doesn't mean anything can be done.

 

[ReadingRambo]

That's disingenuous. We haven't had a serious push for a better national gun policy in quite some time. We've had meek legislation get proposed and almost immediately dismissed. Some states and cities have introduced tougher gun policies, but that hardly solves the problem nationally.

Sandy Hook. Obama tried to launch sweeping reforms that were so watered down by the time they made it through congress that it barely mattered.

 

[BadHand]

Brazilian police kill 5 times as many citizens a year as does the US (roughly 2000 a year). Where is the international pressure? Surely Brazil is less influential in the world than the US.

We must not read the same newspapers as I've seen a lot regarding violence in Brazil, particularly around the world cup.

I suppose, there is more of a shock that for a supposedly developed country the state and it's electorate is seemingly quiescent with these astronomical figures.

 

[fester]

Staggering to see. When will you get your shit together, USA?

It's a religion here and unlikely to change anytime soon.

 

[dan2026]

Sandy Hook. Obama tried to launch sweeping reforms that were so watered down by the time they made it through congress that it barely mattered.

Then your government is its own worst enemy. And apparently cares more for gun ownership than it does for human life.

 

[funkypie]

The one variable people don't often mention in these discussions is gun printing with 3D printers. I imagine it'll only become easier and less expensive in the future.

How does that work. You pour plastic, mental and bolts into a box, which then prints a gun? That's quite cool.

 

[Chie Satonaka]

Gun lobby is way to strong too let that happen. Guns aren't going away in America.

This person gets it.

It's over. There will never, ever be any significant gun legislation or control in this country. Ever. If Sandy Hook couldn't do it, if the Dark Knight movie theater couldn't do it, nothing will. In fact, those incidents just made people BUY MORE GUNS.

 

[efyu_lemonardo]

Oh ok. Well then, judging by the evidence in the case of Brazil, no, I don't think the world gives much of a damn.

Maybe I didn't present my point clearly enough. I'm not claiming that the world cares about gun control in the US (or Brazil for that matter) to some tremendous degree.

What I am saying is that if (in a hypothetical scenario) the world did decide to put this issue at the top of the agenda, and if the US wasn't the global power that it is and was more vulnerable to international pressure, that you bet your ass there would have been better gun control laws by now. The reason I can say this with such certainty is that we have witnessed, over the course of the last century, far greater changes and far more complex issues in other countries being solved through the sheer force of international pressure.

 

[Rolfgang]

People say the US gun problem cannot be fixed.

When has America ever tried to fix their gun problem?

To the outsider it has long passed the point of absurdity.

Obama tried it, but encountered America's gun lobby. That industry is so huge, I doubt it's ever going to change.

 

[NickFire]

People say the US gun problem cannot be fixed.

When has America ever tried to fix their gun problem?

To the outsider it has long passed the point of absurdity.

You need to bear in mind that America was created by violent overthrow of a tyrannical government, and built into the Constitution that people have the right to be armed. Although those rights have been limited somewhat, any wholesale attack on the constitution will not survive, and changing our constitution is a very difficult process, requiring much more than a majority.

I for one would like to see us end the war on drugs, and save our prison spaces for people with criminal records to serve long stretches without parole when they get caught with guns. I would also like to see the mentally ill held for treatment when their doctors believe they pose a threat. That right there would relieve our problems with gun violence and mass shootings immensely.

 

[geardo]

Sandy Hook. Obama tried to launch sweeping reforms that were so watered down by the time they made it through congress that it barely mattered.

That's basically what I meant though. Obama didn't want to spend the political capitol to actually get anything passed. It wasn't a serious attempt imo.

 

[ReadingRambo]

Then your government is its own worst enemy. And apparently cares more for gun ownership than it does for human life.

Oh it absolutely does.

 

[dan2026]

Also how on earth did the weapon manufacturing business get a say in government policy?

Hellfire that could never go wrong, could it?

 

[la_briola]

Brazilian police kill 5 times as many citizens a year as does the US (roughly 2000 a year). Where is the international pressure? Surely Brazil is less influential in the world than the US.

If you are comparing the "Greatest Nation the World has ever seen™©®" to a third world country, your standards are quite low.

 

[questionmark]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Norway#Religion

Although people have freedom of religion, over 83 percent are Christian, and a Christian faith was at one time the state religion. But I'm sure that has nothing to do with how peaceful their culture is.

You are automatically enrolled on birth into the Norwegian church if either of your parents are members. To leave the church, which is pointless to anyone who doesn't care about statistics like this, you need to go out of your way to leave it.

I recommend you click on the main article.

According to the most recent Eurobarometer Poll of 2010,[6]

22% of Norwegian citizens responded that "they believe there is a God".
44% answered that "they believe there is some sort of spirit or life force".
29% answered that "they do not believe there is any sort of spirit, God, or life force".
5% answered that they "do not know".

Phil Zuckerman, an Associate Professor of Sociology at Pitzer College, estimates atheism rates in Norway as ranging from 31 to 72%, based on various studies.[7]

 

[ReadingRambo]

I for one would like to see us end the war on drugs, and save our prison spaces for people with criminal records to serve long stretches without parole when they get caught with guns. I would also like to see the mentally ill held for treatment when their doctors believe they pose a threat. That right there would relieve our problems with gun violence and mass shootings immensely.

This is probably the best case scenario (realistic) for reducing gun violence in America.

 

[pgtl_10]

It looks like it would literally take a war to get gun count down to respectable levels.

Actually gun count will increase.

 

[Rolfgang]

Also how on earth did the weapon manufacturing business get a say in government policy?

Because they pump buttloads of money into the American economy.

 

[ReadingRambo]

If you are comparing the "Greatest Nation the World has ever seen™©®" to a third world country, your standards are quite low.

That was not the point of the comparison. I was tasked with imagining the US had less influence than it does in....you know what, no. If you can't be assed to read it I'm not going to explain myself.

 

[Idba]

So comparing entire region consisting of how many different countries ? Is comparable to just 1 ?


That's best case scenario
It could get decline , stay even or get worse

That's like saying take all the bombs , guns and machetes away and there won't be anymore terrorism.

People make the bombs themselves so its pretty hard to just take them away. If you took away the guns however I can guarantee you that the Charlston shooting, Sandy Hook shooting, Aurora shooting and every other massacre where guns were used wouldnt have happened.

If you took guns away the homocide rate would easily fall over 70-80%. People use guns because theyre easy to use and you dont need to get up and personal. Without that most would pussy out. Aint nobody gonna risk their life hitting some dude with a rock.

 

[Idba]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Norway#Religion

Although people have freedom of religion, over 83 percent are Christian, and a Christian faith was at one time the state religion. But I'm sure that has nothing to do with how peaceful their culture is.

Most people in Norway are atheist or not practicing christians/muslims.

 

[Firelord Chargrilled]

Look at the typical police victim in the US. An impoverished, under-educated minority. How many of those exist in Norway? Poverty in the US leads to crime, crime committed around gun wielding and overzealous cops leads to shootings. When race comes into play the issue is exacerbated. Comparing a country with low crime, low diversity, and a largely unarmed police force with a country that is the polar opposite isn't particularly useful.

This

Anti-gun people are always so quick to throw statistics around every chance they get but never bother to realize gun statistics do not indicate a cause and effect relationship.

 

[la_briola]

That was not the point of the comparison. I was tasked with imagining the US had less influence than it does in....you know what, no. If you can't be assed to read it I'm not going to explain myself.

Fair enough.

 

[efyu_lemonardo]

People say the US gun problem cannot be fixed.

When has America ever tried to fix their gun problem?

To the outsider it has long passed the point of absurdity.

Not only that, the thing that baffles me the most is that the same people saying the gun problem is too complex hardly bat an eyelid when far more complex and difficult to solve foreign issues are brought up.

Apartheid in South Africa? Unacceptable, we will not stand for this, we will not rest until it has been abolished!

Dictatorships in the middle east? Inexcusable, it is our duty as Americans to rid the world of such injustice!

Communism? We will fight to the bitter end even when we aren't sure which side we should be supporting!


But local gun control? Woah there! Lets not bite off more than we can chew....

 

[Gigglepoo]

Start taxing ammunition then. Like ridiculous levels of taxing.

But that only limits guns to wealthier citizens. Any regulation has to effect citizens equally.

 

[ReadingRambo]

This

Anti-gun people are always so quick to throw statistics around every chance they get but never bother to realize gun statistics do not indicate a cause and effect relationship.

Well I'm anti-gun but I just have better arguments. And there is a positive correlation between availability of guns and deaths by guns. There's no denying it.

 

[geardo]

But that only limits guns to wealthier citizens. Any regulation has to effect citizens equally.

That would be nice, but there are regressive taxes all over the US. The sales tax is regressive. Actually, republicans love regressive taxes... maybe they would dig an ammunition tax? Maybe there's hope!

 

[TAJ]

Even if you took guns away 100% then People would just find another method of murder.

Less effective ones.
Like when several people with knives went ham on a crowd in China their kill count was pretty weak compared to single shooters.

 

[Firelord Chargrilled]

Well I'm anti-gun but I just have better arguments. And there is a positive correlation between availability of guns and deaths by guns. There's no denying it.

And I respect you for have better arguments / reasoning for being anti-gun then being one of those people that throw statistics around like "yo why do you have 88.8 guns for everything 100 people ? Get your shit together America".

 

[Amir0x]

By your logic
Stabbings would skyrocketing through the fucking roof then thus solving nothing.'

Cheaper
Easier to conceal
Legal for everyone to carry and buy
Just as effective if not more so then guns

Wow, I don't even know where to begin.

Using a knife to kill someone is far more difficult than using a gun. With a gun you can have distance between you and the target; you are far less likely to get blood on yourself; guns are far more effective at actually killing the target in one shot; guns are faster, more efficient. With a knife, there is a far greater risk someone might be able to fight you off since you have to get up close and personal. And psychologically, killing someone with a knife is even worse than killing someone with a gun.


The statistics prove, less guns in society means less homicides. We can compare per capita of many different developed nations, and the conclusion is almost uniformly the same.

 

[Chariot]

When you read the pro-gun posts here one is coming under the impression that US soldiers would be way better of armed with a sack of knives for all the praise they get as utlra murder weapon.

 

[ReadingRambo]

That would be nice, but there are regressive taxes all over the US. The sales tax is regressive. Actually, republicans love regressive taxes... maybe they would dig an ammunition tax? Maybe there's hope!

The problem is the same lobbies that fight gun control would fight ammo taxes. Part of the same industry.

 

[geardo]

The problem is the same lobbies that fight gun control would fight ammo taxes. Part of the same industry.

This is precisely why the first problem facing the US is money in politics. We really can't hope to fix much else without doing that first.

 

[Nightbird]

The problem is the same lobbies that fight gun control would fight ammo taxes. Part of the same industry.

To qoute another user in this topic:

Also how on earth did the weapon manufacturing business get a say in government policy?

Hellfire that could never go wrong, could it?

The thought that Industry that offers tools for killing (theres no other use for Guns), has a say in politics is horrifying

 

[thomaser]

What did they fire off two shots for?

Have to check if the guns work now and then.

 

[NickFire]

Most people in Norway are atheist or not practicing christians/muslims.

Less than 3% are Muslims from what I am reading, and over 80% are Christians (which someone else is attributing to auto-enrollment). As pertains to a poll someone linked, 2/3 believe in God or something else (ie: are not atheist).

Its right there. 2/3 of the country believes there is more to life than our current state, with over 80 being linked to Christianity in one way or another. And their society works well, better than most.

 

[ReadingRambo]

Less than 3% are Muslims from what I am reading, and over 80% are Christians (which someone else is attributing to auto-enrollment). As pertains to a poll someone linked, 2/3 believe in God or something else (ie: are not atheist).

Its right there. 2/3 of the country believes there is more to life than our current state, with over 80 being linked to Christianity in one way or another. And their society works well, better than most.

Bro stop. The US is waaaay more religious than Norway. Ignoring your atrocious argument that religion reduces gun crime, the numbers don't even support it.

 

[Chariot]

Less than 3% are Muslims from what I am reading, and over 80% are Christians (which someone else is attributing to auto-enrollment). As pertains to a poll someone linked, 2/3 believe in God or something else (ie: are not atheist).

Its right there. 2/3 of the country believes there is more to life than our current state, with over 80 being linked to Christianity in one way or another. And their society works well, better than most.

You can't just throw gnostics into religion, they're closer to atheism that to any religion.

 

[truly101]

Also how on earth did the weapon manufacturing business get a say in government policy?

Hellfire that could never go wrong, could it?

Thats were the money comes from. And how much money do you think the weapons manufacturers make from law abiding citizens buying guns? Enough to have such a strong influence on congress? My guess is no. Thats why they don't want any tracking and registering of where their products go.

 

[Idba]

Less than 3% are Muslims from what I am reading, and over 80% are Christians (which someone else is attributing to auto-enrollment). As pertains to a poll someone linked, 2/3 believe in God or something else (ie: are not atheist).

Its right there. 2/3 of the country believes there is more to life than our current state, with over 80 being linked to Christianity in one way or another. And their society works well, better than most.

About 40% of our population believes in god. 35%ish dont believe in god. The rest arent sure, or some other thing. 2% of Norwegians go to the curch regularly. I can with certain tell you that religion is on the decline in Norway with atheisms only gaining more grounds.

 

[jerry113]

Sure the gun problems in America can be fixed.

Other countries have done so and instituted gun control. So can we.

This country is capable of being great at many things, if we only pull ourselves together.

 

[Phat Michael]

What do you propose we do? Lol. Criminals are armed as well. No law abiding citizen that exercises gun ownership is going to give up their guns. It's too late to fix.

I think you guys should get more guns because the more guns you have, the less people will be willing to use them!

 

[NickFire]

Bro stop. The US is waaaay more religious than Norway. Ignoring your atrocious argument that religion reduces gun crime, the numbers don't even support it.

I can't profess personal knowledge, just what I read. But while I agree the US is very religious in parts, I do not think the people committing the gun violence are by and large trying to follow Christ's teachings in our country.

About 40% of our population believes in god. 35%ish dont believe in god. The rest arent sure, or some other thing. 2% of Norwegians go to the curch regularly. I can with certain tell you that religion is on the decline in Norway with atheisms only gaining more grounds.

I count those believing in something else (by and large) to believe in God just in a different way. But as for who goes to church, as said above all I know is what little I have read.

 

[Zvonimir Boban]

I think you guys should get more guns because the more guns you have, the less people will be willing to use them!

Honest, law abiding citizens should give up their guns and take up knives instead. Apparently they're just as, if not more effective than guns. Criminals would be fucked.

 

[Bodacious]

The problem is the same lobbies that fight gun control would fight ammo taxes. Part of the same industry.

No, the problem is you're talking about a de facto infringement on a fundamental right guaranteed in the Constitution. By specifically taxing the means of exercising a right in a manner intended to suppress the ability to exercise that right, you are taxing the right itself. Like, for example, poll taxes (Jim Crow) or an exorbitant tax on printing presses (pre-internet) to control who could publish information.

 

[Siegcram]

Also how on earth did the weapon manufacturing business get a say in government policy?

Hellfire that could never go wrong, could it?

The military-industrial complex had a say in every government. Ever.

 

[efyu_lemonardo]

Honest, law abiding citizens should give up their guns and take up knives instead. Apparently they're just as, if not more effective than guns. Criminals would be fucked.

Screw knives, they should arm themselves with forks! I have it from very high authority that being stabbed with a fork is up to four times as deadly as being stabbed with a knife. Multiple prongs vs. just one blade, can't argue with that math!

 

[geardo]

No, the problem is you're talking about a de facto infringement on a fundamental right guaranteed in the Constitution. By specifically taxing the means of exercising a right in a manner intended to suppress the ability to exercise that right, you are taxing the right itself. Like, for example, poll taxes (Jim Crow) or an exorbitant tax on printing presses (pre-internet) to control who could publish information.

The second amendment allows room for regulation.

 

[Idba]

I can't profess personal knowledge, just what I read. But while I agree the US is very religious in parts, I do not think the people committing the gun violence are by and large trying to follow Christ's teachings in our country.




I count those believing in something else (by and large) to believe in God just in a different way. But as for who goes to church, as said above all I know is what little I have read.

They dont. Norway is one of the most secular countries in the world.

Source: I actually f*cking live in Norway

 

[Bodacious]

The second amendment allows room for regulation.

You need to read up on 18th century lingo. "Well-regulated" has nothing to do with administrative agency regulations (administrative agencies didn't even exist in the 1780's and are not established in the Constitution). The phrase 'well-regulated' as expressed in the text of the 2nd Amendment means in good working order and/or properly equipped. A pocket watch that kept proper time, for example, would have been referred to as 'well-regulated.'